I'm curious as to what the difference between the various software packages are? Mystic seems to be on the easy end to set up compared to Synchronet which looks pretty complicated to set up - so many options!
Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: toofargone to All on Mon Apr 03 2023 09:31 pm
I'm curious as to what the difference between the various software packages are? Mystic seems to be on the easy end to set up
compared to Synchronet which looks pretty complicated to set up -
so many options!
So Synchronet does have a bigger learning curve, but IMHO, it is a
more feature rich BBS.
It supports many protocols web, mail, news, ftp, irc, and many others
- which if you want to use them its great. You can also use it as a
base (like a game server), if you want to play with other BBS
packages and have them to connect to it to collect mail or play games.
The developer is very active and there are many others around who use
it who can help too.
I've used both, and I do prefer Synchronet - but it took more effort
to figure some things out.
I'm curious as to what the difference between the various software packages are? Mystic seems to be on the easy end to set up compared to Synchronet which looks pretty complicated to set up - so many options!
Both Synchronet and Mystic suffer from people hosting fairly generic
BBSes without making any effort to individualize them. That's just my
hot take ;)
So Synchronet does have a bigger learning curve, but IMHO, it is a more feature rich BBS.
While Synchronet is complicated, it's also very well documented so
whether you want to run on Windows or Linux, you'll find everything you
customize my system. As I say, it's a bit more work due to having to
code backend menus.
esc wrote to toofargone <=-
I'm curious as to what the difference between the various software packages are? Mystic seems to be on the easy end to set up compared to Synchronet which looks pretty complicated to set up - so many options!
Mystic feels more akin to the traditional DOS BBS softwares that
were popular in the modding scene back in the day - think
Renegade, Iniquity, etc.
Synchronet feels more like a professionalized software that you'd
expect to be popular for more business focused applications back
then - think PCBoard.
Either are great and will get the job done, it's more about what
you're after. I don't think either one have any major gaps
compared to the other.
Synchronet has built in javascript support for making mods and
things. Mystic has its own Pascal-like scripting language and
also some rudimentary Python support.
Both Synchronet and Mystic suffer from people hosting fairly
generic BBSes without making any effort to individualize them.
That's just my hot take ;)
Michael Borthwick wrote to deon <=-
So Synchronet does have a bigger learning curve, but IMHO, it is a more feature rich BBS.
It does seem to have a lot of features that mystic doesn't, I'm
not sure I would use them but as you go on you might enable them.
I do like software that's updated regularly though so that's
probably a plus for me.
I'm curious as to what the difference between the various software packages are? Mystic seems to be on the easy end to set up compared to Synchronet which looks pretty complicated to set up - so many options!
When I once said that every BBS is different and someone replied
"unless it's a Synchronet BBS" ... that's what got me to finally
customize my system. As I say, it's a bit more work due to having to
code backend menus.
When I once said that every BBS is different and someone replied
"unless it's a Synchronet BBS" ... that's what got me to finally
customize my system. As I say, it's a bit more work due to having to
code backend menus.
--
... Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii?
Synchronet - The professional software. (I *don't* think it should be free even!) Actively developed every single year and very powerful. That being said, like other 'professional' BBS softwares - its the most ugly and basic without modification. It uses Java for customization/modding; very powerful, IF a sysop knows how to use Java - you can customize *EVERYTHING*, but most people do very little.)
I've not looked sideways at Mystic. But I always recommend caution with Synchronet. This usually raises a storm, and I may be the only one thats had
a problem with it. If you try use it, try installing it somewhere safe first.
Really an excellent summary and well-written. I couldn't agree more.
toofargone wrote to All <=-
I'm curious as to what the difference between the various software packages are? Mystic seems to be on the easy end to set up compared to Synchronet which looks pretty complicated to set up - so many options!
Both Synchronet and Mystic suffer from people hosting fairly generic
BBSes without making any effort to individualize them. That's just my
hot take ;)
Nigel Reed wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: Gamgee to Michael Borthwick on Mon Apr 03 2023 20:46:00
... Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii?
Why is I-45 an interstate highway when it only runs from
Galveston,TX to Dallas,TX ?
Spectre wrote to toofargone <=-
I've not looked sideways at Mystic. But I always recommend
caution with Synchronet. This usually raises a storm, and I may
be the only one thats had a problem with it. If you try use it,
try installing it somewhere safe first.
Thats all I got.
pAULIE42o
.........
Synchronet - The professional software. (I *don't* think it should be free even!) Actively developed every single year and very powerful. That being said, like other 'professional' BBS softwares - its the most ugly and basic without modification. It uses Java for customization/modding; very powerful, IF a sysop knows how to use Java - you can customize
Wouldn't the customizations come from the sysop? You get the basics of what you need to get an average BBS off the ground and then any customizations you add in.
Why no mention of enigma bbs?
Another recommendation would be to try reading the (extensive) documentation, and follow the (very clear) instructions. Nothing "dangerous" about it.
esc wrote to Gamgee <=-
Another recommendation would be to try reading the (extensive) documentation, and follow the (very clear) instructions. Nothing "dangerous" about it.
Yes, I still don't think I agree with Spec saying anything about
SBBS is dangerous. That's a mischaracterization. If SBBS is
dangerous, so then is any piece of software that someone may
install, and equally so.
Synchronet. This usually raises a storm, and I may be the only one tha had
a problem with it. If you try use it, try installing it somewhere safe first.
Sounds like a skill issue ;)
Sounds like a skill issue ;)
It's not a 'skill' issue. He said what he meant. Some of the folks (except Rob of course) that 'help' with Synchronet, shouldn't.
Sounds like a skill issue ;)
It uses JavaScript, not Java. I haven't seen Java at all anywhere in Synchronet.
It's not a 'skill' issue. He said what he meant. Some of the folks
(except Rob of course) that 'help' with Synchronet, shouldn't.
Everyone has learned me on this distinction - I 'meant' the same, but ... understand. :P
Another recommendation would be to try reading the (extensive) documentation, and follow the (very clear) instructions. Nothing "dangerous" about it.
When I once said that every BBS is different and someone replied
"unless it's a Synchronet BBS" ... that's what got me to finally
customize my system. As I say, it's a bit more work due to having to
code backend menus.
Re: Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: Nigel Reed to All on Mon Apr 03 2023 04:32 pm
When I once said that every BBS is different and someone replied
"unless it's a Synchronet BBS" ... that's what got me to finally customize my system. As I say, it's a bit more work due to
having to code backend menus.
There's a JS script for Synchronet called menuedit.js in sbbs/exec
that echicken wrote that (as far as my understanding) is meant to be
a more traditional menu editor that you might see in other BBS
software and works along with menushell.js so that you don't have to
code everything for your menus. I haven't used it much, but I've
been curious to try it more.
That bugs me with Mystic, the documentation is a bit sparse. If it
wasn't for Avon and his youtube videos I'd be completely lost.
Thats all I got.
There's a JS script for Synchronet called menuedit.js in sbbs/exec that echicken wrote that (as far as my understanding) is meant to be a more traditional menu editor that you might see in other BBS software and
works along with menushell.js so that you don't have to code everything for your menus. I haven't used it much, but I've been curious to try it more.
There's a JS script for Synchronet called menuedit.js in
sbbs/exec that echicken wrote that (as far as my understanding)
is meant to be a more traditional menu editor that you might see
in other BBS software and works along with menushell.js so that
you don't have to code everything for your menus. I haven't
used it much, but I've been curious to try it more.
Oh, nice. I had no idea this existed. I'm going to probably go mess
around with this now.
Everyone has learned me on this distinction - I 'meant' the same, but understand. :P
I better not catch you saying java ever again!
;) hehe
At any rate - Sync is super powerful... if you know JavaScript
At any rate - Sync is super powerful... if you know Java. !!!! :P
Re: Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: paulie420 to esc on Wed Apr 05 2023 05:50 pm
At any rate - Sync is super powerful... if you know JavaScript
I actually didn't know much about JavaScript before I started running Synchronet.. Previously, I had just done a litle bit of JavaScript for some web pages, validating user input on some web forms & such. I really started to learn a lot about the JavaScript language once I started writing JS mods for Synchronet.
I actually didn't know much about JavaScript before I started running
Synchronet.. Previously, I had just done a litle bit of JavaScript
for some web pages, validating user input on some web forms & such. I
really started to learn a lot about the JavaScript language once I
started writing JS mods for Synchronet.
And knowing JS might be good for your career! :-P
At any rate - Sync is super powerful... if you know Java. !!!! :P
Gamgee wrote to Nigel Reed <=-
Something else that I find funny is how "interstate" has become a noun
in the English language. For example, you might say on the phone:
"Yep, I just got on the Interstate and I'll be there in an hour". ;-)
claw wrote to paulie420 <=-
Thats well written! Good Resource. Wish I could pin that one :D
esc wrote to claw <=-
Yes, but a lot of sysops just throw bone stock BBSes online and call it
a day, which is what I was referring to.
esc wrote to Gamgee <=-
Another recommendation would be to try reading the (extensive) documentation, and follow the (very clear) instructions. Nothing "dangerous" about it.
Yes, I still don't think I agree with Spec saying anything about SBBS
is dangerous. That's a mischaracterization. If SBBS is dangerous, so
then is any piece of software that someone may install, and equally so.
Nightfox wrote to paulie420 <=-
I actually didn't know much about JavaScript before I started running Synchronet.. Previously, I had just done a litle bit of JavaScript for some web pages, validating user input on some web forms & such. I
really started to learn a lot about the JavaScript language once I
started writing JS mods for Synchronet.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
Gamgee wrote to Nigel Reed <=-
Something else that I find funny is how "interstate" has become a noun
in the English language. For example, you might say on the phone:
"Yep, I just got on the Interstate and I'll be there in an hour". ;-)
Vernacular tells us in California which part you're from. If you
call a freeway "The <number>", then you're from southern
California. If you refer to them by the number alone, northern
California.
If you refer to the freeways by name, then you're unbelievably
old.
In the San Francisco bay area, all of the freeways had names
first. 13 was the Warren Freeway, 101 the Bayshore, 80 the
Eastshore, 280 the James Lick, 17/880 was the Nimitz, and so
on...
esc wrote to claw <=-
Yes but a lot of sysops just throw bone stock BBSes online and call it a day which is what I was referring to.
We all started somewhere. I hear people talk about wanting to get their PF>BBS just right before opening it to the public - when I started out I
had a vanilla Telegard install but had all of my echoes working. I tuned PF>it and modded it as I went.
But it looked pretty bad at first. :)
... See you on the other side.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
It's funny that the extensibility can be a good part of why we choose BBSes. I've been a long time Synchronet sysop but keep getting drawn to Mystic, because I want to play with Python.
first. 13 was the Warren Freeway, 101 the Bayshore, 80 the
Eastshore, 280 the James Lick, 17/880 was the Nimitz, and so
on...
I'm no spring chicken, but with the exception maybe of Bayshor and Nimitz, the rest of those don't ring a bell.
Talisman - A hobbyists project. APAM has given SO MUCH to the BBS
community; even another BBS software, Magicka BBS... but its really
light on features.
It's funny that the extensibility can be a good part of why we choose BBSes. I've been a long time Synchronet sysop but keep getting drawn to Mystic, because I want to play with Python.
esc wrote to claw <=-
Yes, but a lot of sysops just throw bone stock BBSes online and
call it a day, which is what I was referring to.
We all started somewhere. I hear people talk about wanting to get
their BBS just right before opening it to the public - when I started
out I had a vanilla Telegard install but had all of my echoes
working. I tuned it and modded it as I went.
Re: Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sat Apr 08 2023 08:19 am
It's funny that the extensibility can be a good part of why we
choose BBSes. I've been a long time Synchronet sysop but keep
getting drawn to Mystic, because I want to play with Python.
I've sometimes thought Python would be a good language for
extensibility, but I'm fine with using JS for Synchronet. And
outside of Synchronet, I've used Python more often than JS.
My BBS would never have been online if I had customized it first. Took
me about 3 years to create my menus. I did add a new things like Nightfox's message reader/area chooser stuff but that was it really.
Bucko wrote to All <=-
Same here. The night I put my BBS online I posted an ad in a group on Facebook, now mind you, I already had fsxNet installed and was hooked
up to DoorParty for doors. I was roasted by a member of the group
saying typical Mystic fly by night wannabe sysOp.
Talisman has:
Runs on Linux / FreeBSD / NetBSD / Windows & last time I checked
I'd be disappointed if the offending sysop wasn't roasted by the other
sysops. Well done - way to generate interest in the hobby!
Back in the day we didn't have no PINTEREST! We used to save TEXT FILES
to our HARD DRIVES using CAPTURE BUFFERS!
Same here. The night I put my BBS online I posted an ad in a group on
to DoorParty for doors. I was roasted by a member of the group saying typical Mystic fly by night wannabe sysOp. Plain out of the box BBS.
Since that night, I have done my cursor menu's, installed my own door server, and modified it up the way I want it. All BBS' start somewhere...
Same here. The night I put my BBS online I posted an ad in a group on Facebook, now mind you, I already had fsxNet installed and was hooked up to DoorParty for doors. I was roasted by a member of the group saying typical Mystic fly by night wannabe sysOp. Plain out of the box BBS. Since that night, I have done my cursor menu's, installed my own door server, and modified it up the way I want it. All BBS' start somewhere...
I put my BBS online, and immediately started getting callers from telnetbbsguide, because they had found my BBS and added an entry.
I _still_ haven't put an ad for it anywhere, because there's too much
I'd like to change before finding it to be complete enough.
But at this point, while it's nice to have callers, I enjoy chatting
with the occasional user that stops by and sends a message, etc., the
BBS is mostly just so I can keep up with FSXnet and occasionally have
some fun with BBSing stuff, in ways that I can control and curate to my heart's content.
Maybe eventually I'll do more, but I'm okay with BBSing being a side
hobby that I don't go _too_ deeply into. Lots of other hobbies to
explore, too.
And here people could say, "Welcome to the scene! I look forward to hearing about the interesting things you do to your BBS as you make it look less stock."
But I suppose I understand how the roasting can creep in, when we're not at our nicest.
I always thought it made more sense to customize the appearance of a BBS before putting it online or advertising it, so that you don't get complaints that it's a stock BBS that looks like a lot of other BBSes..
At any rate - Sync is super powerful... if you know JavaScript
I actually didn't know much about JavaScript before I started running Synchronet.. Previously, I had just done a litle bit of JavaScript for some web pages, validating user input on some web forms & such. I
really started to learn a lot about the JavaScript language once I
started writing JS mods for Synchronet.
I'm curious as to what the difference between the various software packages are? Mystic seems to be on the easy end to set up compared to Synchronet which looks pretty complicated to set up - so many options!
Both Synchronet and Mystic suffer from people hosting fairly generic
BBSes without making any effort to individualize them. That's just my
hot take ;)
(...) - pick yer poison.
I better not catch you saying java ever again!Yea, you and everyone else. :P I got corrected on DoveNet too... TBH, Javascript is what I meant - but thats my ignorance as I didn't even
;) hehe
think of the difference between the two.
Yeah.. I made that mistake as well and DOVENET was fast enough to bitch
me and keep my thought vertically correct regarding Javascript vs. Java connection in my vocabulary :>
That what I meant in previous post when I thought soulless. And that's also why I keep my setups offline and available under LAN.
Well, they are right; Javascript is much m0re than Java was - I didn't even 'know' the difference - but do now. :P
Synchronet - The professional software.
Re: Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: paulie420 to toofargone on Mon Apr 03 2023 06:25 pm
Synchronet - The professional software.
You inspired me to write this: http://wiki.synchro.net/wiki:user:digital_man#is_synchronet_pd_or_l33t :-) --
digital man (rob)
Well, they are right; Javascript is much m0re than Java was - I didn' even 'know' the difference - but do now. :P
Java is excellent at what it does, and is still an industry leader in a lot of places. JavaScript isn't really a competitor or anything, the intended use case and problems it addresses are completely different.
But yeah, it's always seemed screwy to me that they chose to use the
name "javascript"...alas...
Back in the day, Renegade was the "l33t" software and the cool kids ran that, >while the "adults" (and older teens) ran WWIV, VBBS, Maximus, Wildcat, or >MajorBBS.
Back in the day, Renegade was the "l33t" software and the cool kids ran that, >while the "adults" (and older teens) ran WWIV, VBBS, Maximus, Wildcat, or >MajorBBS.
Um...I'm pretty sure the cool kids were running T.A.G. back in the day. (Just like today...) :P ;)
... Error 3032 - Recursion error. See error 3032.
---
* Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)
hardware... thats one of the powerful things about Sync is that it helps a sysop create a board thats friendly to all different terminals, screen sizes and fonts/etc.
I'm hoping to 'heavily' modify Synchro into something that IS geared towards old hardware and their native terminals; C=, 40 column Amiga, topaz ASCII and 80 column IBM ANSI... I'm thinking that Synchro will allow me to provide a board that any old system can connect to and l00k correct.
There's like only one T.A.G. BBS that I'm aware of, and one more that
may be coming back.
So do you run T.A.G. as well? That would make two. :)
From the other side, I see all the Synchronet boards but few look and feel the same, which is soulless to me. But perhaps it's not tech, but attitude
Well, they are right; Javascript is much m0re than Java was - I didn't even 'know' the difference - but do now. :P
http://wiki.synchro.net/wiki:user:digital_man#is_synchronet_pd_or_l33t :-)
When you say "few look and feel the same", I understand that as meaning they tend to look different? And it sounds like you say that like it's
a bad thing..?
Um...I'm pretty sure the cool kids were running T.A.G. back in the day. (Just like today...) :P ;)
Re: Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: paulie420 to toofargone on Mon Apr 03 2023 06:25 pm
Synchronet - The professional software.
You inspired me to write this: http://wiki.synchro.net/wiki:user:digital_man#is_synchronet_pd_or_l33t
I never thought of Synchronet to be "l33t" software.
Synchronet - The professional software.
You inspired me to write this: http://wiki.synchro.net/wiki:user:digital_man#is_synchronet_pd_or_l33t
:-) --
digital man (rob)
I never thought of Synchronet to be "l33t" software. I thought in 2000
and now in 2023 as a multi-purpose software that can be pretty much what you want it to be. A blank slate where you can modify and customize it
to what you want it to be.
Back in the day, Renegade was the "l33t" software and the cool kids ran that, while the "adults" (and older teens) ran WWIV, VBBS, Maximus, Wildcat, or MajorBBS.
Back in the day, Renegade was the "l33t" software and the cool kids ran t >while the "adults" (and older teens) ran WWIV, VBBS, Maximus, Wildcat, or >MajorBBS.
Um...I'm pretty sure the cool kids were running T.A.G. back in the day. (Just like today...) :P ;)
There's like only one T.A.G. BBS that I'm aware of, and one more that
may be coming back.
I'm hoping to 'heavily' modify Synchro into something that IS geared towards old hardware and their native terminals.
Yeah, I like that Synchronet is really flexible. I think I've
customized my BBS a fair bit, with mods for the various pieces, but I still feel like it could be modded a lot further. Sometimes I try to think of some interesting new ideas for ways I could mod it, but
sometimes it feels like it's hard to think of new things.
Thanks for that write-up; honestly, I had ZERO knowledge of Synchro's very early beginnings... I remember seeing the first Synchronet ad in Boardwatch and noticing, while still costing $299 if I remember, that is was the 'budget professional' choice for multi-node bbS softwarez;
Digital Man wrote to Diamond Dave <=-
That's definitely how it started, back in 1990/91. The initial focus
was all about the file transfers. We even had a feature called "Elite text" that was used to hide portions of message text, only visible to users with the 'E' exemption (or flag, I don't remember). Fun times. --
paulie420 wrote to Digital Man <=-
I was never a multi-node bbS - well; I did get up to two, but that
don't really count...
Synchronet - The professional software.
You inspired me to write this: http://wiki.synchro.net/wiki:user:digital_man#is_synchronet_pd_or_l33t :-) --
digital man (rob)
Thanks for that write-up; honestly I had ZERO knowledge of Synchros very early beginnings... I remember seeing the first Synchronet ad in Boardwatch and noticing while still costing $299 if I remember that is was the budget professional choice for multi-node bbS softwarez; I was blown away by the features [that grew and grew as the months went on] it provided for the money.
I was never a multi-node bbS - well; I did get up to two but that dont really count... as such I never paid for Synchronet in the 9os... its really interesting reading about how you had to change what you started in order for Sync to GET those professional bbS orders.
Interesting; thanks for sharing and I think that was a great addition to the Wiki!
|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
They're used for completely different purposes. And what do you mean by "Java was" (past tense)? I thought Java was still fairly commonly used.
I still find it fascinating on how Java and other languages are viewed.
E.g., Python is older than Java, yet Java oftentimes seems old in the tooth.
DOVENET as the active set of groups and very specific on top topics that are most popular over there. I also found it provocative to wake up bad person in me sometimes and I needed a break.
It has to have something unique, a hook to let me think about coming
I remmeber sbbs early beginnings. however,i was like 12-13 and it cost far more money than i could muster up. i usually used shareware stuff or free.
E.g., Python is older than Java, yet Java oftentimes seems old in the tooth.Wow. I did not know that (and a quick web-lookup confirms that). I definitely have thought (before now) of Python as being (much) newer than Java.
Also, people sometimes say C++ is fairly old,
but C++ has gained some
interesting modern features since C++11, and development of the C++ language has been fairly active since then.
C++ is still used in some projects.
Thanks for that write-up; honestly, I had ZERO knowledge of Synchro's v early beginnings... I remember seeing the first Synchronet ad in Boardw and noticing, while still costing $299 if I remember, that is was the 'budget professional' choice for multi-node bbS softwarez;
It was. I do think we always had a version in the $99 range (1 or 2
node?) too. Glad you saw one of our ads. They weren't cheap. :-)_
I was never a multi-node bbS - well; I did get up to two, but that don't really count...
My othernet hub, back in the day, ran 10 DOS nodes running Remote
Access. He needed another node for a file server, some DOS-level
networking that wasn't LANTastic, and a room full of beige desktops
running on baker's racks with cabling everywhere. It was a pretty
amazing sight to see back then.
The saving grace was that he had these running in his office (he had a
full-time consulting business) and power was included in the rent.
I remmeber sbbs early beginnings. however,i was like 12-13 and it cost
far more money than i could muster up. i usually used shareware stuff or free.
Thanks for that write-up; honestly, I had ZERO knowledge of Synchro's v early beginnings... I remember seeing the first Synchronet ad in Boardw and noticing, while still costing $299 if I remember, that is was the 'budget professional' choice for multi-node bbS softwarez;
It was. I do think we always had a version in the $99 range (1 or 2 node?) too. Glad you saw one of our ads. They weren't cheap. :-)_
Heres another funny tidbit - while I grabbed a copy of the multi-node software very close to its release, I was too scared to run it bad then. I literally thought the 'Synchronet Police' would report me to the FEDS and bring the search warrant!!! :P
I played around w/ it - hell, even shared it - but never put it online. I remember when you flew the blimp and was st0ked to see your [years old] video showing that blimp off to us in current times. :P
Also, people sometimes say C++ is fairly old,
C++ was first released in 1985. That is fairly old I think.
C++ is still used in some projects.
Wow, that's an understatement. Your web browser and your office applications, whatever they are, are most likely written in (or contain significant components written in) C++.
Thats rad - Remote Access was one of my fav softwares too... I liked it, Virtual and VBBS; they all felt kinda 'similar' IMO.
I remember most multi-node boards in my area ran MajorBBS or... what was the one w/ the horse - Mustang.
There was a crack and 250-node key combo that was created and released (for sbbs v2) at some point too. I think I have it available for
download on Vertrauen. It turns out roll-your-own-copy-protection is probably not the best idea I've ever had. :-)
I remember most multi-node boards in my area ran MajorBBS or... what the one w/ the horse - Mustang.
Maybe you're thinking of Mustang Software, the company that made Wildcat?
well. Also, by 2010, I remember seeing warnings that Python 3 had made some breaking changes where some Python 2.x code wouldn't work anymore,
so perhaps there were some significant changes in Python 3 that helped
it in that regard.
Also, people sometimes say C++ is fairly old, but C++ has gained some interesting modern features since C++11, and development of the C++ language has been fairly active since then. C++ is still used in some
Right - Wildcat! was also a cool one; if the sysop/bbS used it/modified it in a good way... I guess nothings changed in 30+ years. :P
There was a crack and 250-node key combo that was created and released
(for sbbs v2) at some point too. I think I have it available for
download on Vertrauen. It turns out roll-your-own-copy-protection is probably not the best idea I've ever had. :-)
People will spend lot's of $$ on hardware, but skimp out on the software!
It often seened like Wildcat! was a BBS package where sysops tended to
use the stock menus & ANSIs (at least, stock-looking). If I didn't know it was a Wildcat BBS when logging in, I could sometimes recognize it was Wildcat by how their menu ANSIs looked.
I like how Shooter uses Wildcat! at Wizards Rainbow - he uses Wildcat! for file areas, the main bbS and other functions... but when you goto doors or messages it rlogins seemlessly to a Mystic install so users can enj0y the messaging system that Mystic uses.
He, as you prolly know, writes sick door games using what I think is the Wildcat! programming language!!
I don't mind paying for software but I really object to these subscription models some software companies go for. Take Adobe Acrobat standard.. $19 per month. $228 per year or if you need it for a decade $2280.
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't moved Windows to a subscription model yet.
I don't mind paying for software but I really object to these
subscription models some software companies go for. Take Adobe Acrobat standard.. $19 per month. $228 per year or if you need it for a decade $2280.
Adobe makes products that I avoid because of the pricing.
I don't mind paying for software but I really object to these
subscription models some software companies go for. Take Adobe Acrobat standard.. $19 per month. $228 per year or if you need it for a decade $2280.
I like how Shooter uses Wildcat! at Wizards Rainbow - he uses Wildcat!
Michael Borthwick wrote to vorlon <=-
People will spend lot's of $$ on hardware, but skimp out on the software!
I don't mind paying for software but I really object to these
subscription models some software companies go for. Take Adobe Acrobat standard.. $19 per month. $228 per year or if you need it for a decade $2280.
Nightfox wrote to Michael Borthwick <=-
smartphones for things. I've also heard business and data centers is where Microsoft is making much of its revenue these days.
Adept wrote to Michael Borthwick <=-
I don't mind paying for software but I really object to these
subscription models some software companies go for. Take Adobe Acrobat standard.. $19 per month. $228 per year or if you need it for a decade $2280.
Adobe makes products that I avoid because of the pricing.
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't moved Windows to a subscription model yet.
And I like that. If Acrobat cost $80, but you get no further updates unless you pay $80 the next year, I'd be a fan.
Which, thankfully, with most of Adobe's products, is easy enough.
Also I'd say that most of the functions that Adobe Creative and Document cloud offers today is a technological commodity with a thousand of alternatives for people who are creative enough to check.
Software-as-a-Service needs to die in a fire for the most part. I don't mind it when there's a legitimate reason why you'd expect a recurring
cost (like cloud storage, for instance), but 90% don't have a legitimate reason, and 50% of the remaining 10% seem to have shoehorned that reason in (like implementing cloud storage when it's completely unnecessary).
Now, with Office, you do get web versions of the apps and OneDrive/Outlook. The Adobe value proposition is a little harder to sell -- who needs another cloud storage service that only your creatives use?
People aren't buying new PCs as quickly, since a 5 year old i5 is still pretty darn good. Azure cloud services revenue is increasing as people
He, as you prolly know, writes sick door games using what I think is the Wildcat! programming language!!
People will spend lot's of $$ on hardware, but skimp out on the
software!
I don't mind paying for software but I really object to these
subscription models some software companies go for. Take Adobe Acrobat standard.. $19 per month. $228 per year or if you need it for a decade $2280.
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't moved Windows to a subscription model
yet.
Software has never been cheap, the PC can be the cheapest part of the
deal depending on what your needs are.
They want the ongoing revenue. But there are times like in Winserver
where the owner does not update their software and still expects to
feed them 229 a year for updates.
Michael Borthwick wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Everyone is different though. I wish they would take that into account instead of offering these types of packages.
Michael Borthwick wrote to Adept <=-
I've tried several PDF editors (and paid for them) but I find nothing edits PDF files like acrobat. I use GIMP for photo editing and I don't really have the need for software like lightroom or any of their other creative packages.
Bucko wrote to paulie420 <=-
And his father played a mean guitar and wrote some really great
songs...
Vorlon wrote to Michael Borthwick <=-
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't moved Windows to a subscription model
yet.
They would love to!
Bucko wrote to paulie420 <=-
And his father played a mean guitar and wrote some really great songs...
Shooter ain't no slouch in the music department, either.
Yeah, but they get a cut of the sales cost of EVERY FRAKKING PC SOLD. That'll keep them happy.I would likely go Mac or Linux.
Shooter ain't no slouch in the music department, either.
Shooter ain't no slouch in the music department, either.
Vorlon wrote to Michael Borthwick <=-
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't moved Windows to a subscription model
yet.
They would love to!
Yeah, but they get a cut of the sales cost of EVERY FRAKKING PC SOLD. That'll keep them happy.
He, as you prolly know, writes sick door games using what I think is Wildcat! programming language!!
And his father played a mean guitar and wrote some really great songs...
Adobe ain't that expensive comparing to the past, relatively speaking,
but you must use it extensively to see the value. If you just need to
play around PDF files once a year then Acrobat is not for you.
Which, thankfully, with most of Adobe's products, is easy enough.
I've tried several PDF editors (and paid for them) but I find nothing edits PDF files like acrobat. I use GIMP for photo editing and I don't
Yeah, editing PDFs is a challenging point.
But when I had a scanner, and would want to combine two PDFs, I'm not really sure how I would've done it without Acrobat.
Warpslide wrote to Adept <=-
PDFsam (sam = Split & Merge) is a nice free tool to do that:
https://pdfsam.org/pdfsam-basic/
PDFsam (sam = Split & Merge) is a nice free tool to do that:
https://pdfsam.org/pdfsam-basic/
There is a "Pro" version that does more (stuff I don't need) and of
course you can't just buy the pro version, it's a yearly cost.
I made the switch to linux a few months ago on all of my PC's (except one windows vm to run windows specific software). There are heaps of free software packages that do pretty much the same thing ie. GIMP. I just can't find anything that edits PDFs as well as acrobat.
Thanks for the pointer. All I really need is when I'm
making a mixed duplex PDFs from my scanner to remove blank
pages. This should do the trick nicely. Page rotation,
too.
esc wrote to Gamgee <=-Yes, if I recall he said it wiped some files, or changed a bunch of permissions, or something similar, and basically trashed the system it was put on. Of course, that has never happened to a single one of the other 845,212 people who have installed Synchronet, but it must be Synchronet's fault... :-)
Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
esc wrote to Gamgee <=-Yes, if I recall he said it wiped some files, or changed a bunch of permissions, or something similar, and basically trashed the system it
was put on. Of course, that has never happened to a single one of the other 845,212 people who have installed Synchronet, but it must be Synchronet's fault... :-)
Well, there have been over 17k pulls of the docker image(s) I
have up for Synchronet... though I need to work out a better
upgrade for 3.20 from an earlier version, as I've experienced a
few issues. But absolutely won't destroy your host from a
container.
https://github.com/bbs-io/sychronet-docker
Also should try a recent nightly to see if it initializes okay
still. It's not the cleanest usage, but I prefer to keep nearly everything I use containerized with a docker-compose file to go
with it. Far easier backup/restore/migrate... etc.
I've never really seen the point of docker. Seems like a lot of extra
work for..... what? Security? I'm on a home LAN and am not worried
about that. As for backups etc... not sure how it could really be
easier than an automated rsync (or similar) every night, to both a LAN device, and an off-location device. But anyway.... <SHRUG>.
Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Mon Apr 17 2023 08:07 pm
I've never really seen the point of docker. Seems like a lot of extra
work for..... what? Security? I'm on a home LAN and am not worried
about that. As for backups etc... not sure how it could really be
easier than an automated rsync (or similar) every night, to both a LAN device, and an off-location device. But anyway.... <SHRUG>.
I am not a docker advocate, but now we are at it:
The advantage of docker is that a developer may create and test
an application in a given environment (with a set of libraries,
databases and support components) and thenserve it to a use
without caring too much about which environment the user is
running (since the user will run it as if it were a capsule).
Docker images are also stateless, which means you can create and
destroy them on demand if you are running somehting which is very
heavy load. For example, if you are running a heavy game service,
you may use an orchestator to launch instances of the game
service on demand according to the number of players you are
getting, and then use a load balancer to spread the load across
the nodes. If you have a spike of users,you auto-deploy game
nodes. If users become few, you auto-reduce the number of nodes.
Docker does not help that much with backups in that scenario
because docker instances are supposed to be stateless. You
typically have a storage backend for managing persistent data.
Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
To remove, or select specific pages from a specific PDF file, I
just switch to a PDF "printer" such as CutePDF. Then, my OSes
own printer's inteface offers to select specific pages. The
end result is another PDF with the pages I want.
Simple, doesn't require any additional software. Love it.
Technically, CutePDF is one piece of additional software (a
printer driver that only prints to PDF format). But it's also
handy when you want to share one's own created documents (such
as invoices) but don't want to send the editable wordprocessing
version.
Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Hello poindexter FORTRAN!
Simple, doesn't require any additional software. Love it.
Technically, CutePDF is one piece of additional software (a
printer driver that only prints to PDF format). But it's also
handy when you want to share one's own created documents (such
as invoices) but don't want to send the editable wordprocessing
version.
I used to use CutePDF years ago, but now it seems Microsoft has added that as a standard feature in Windows (perhaps in Windows 10?). One of my printer devices is "Microsoft Print to PDF". Also, the web browser I use these days (Vivaldi) has a print destination of "Save as PDF". Microsoft Word can also save to PDF format these days.
(Aside: I'm going to be taking over my mom's bills and
spent the morning cleaning and maintaining my 15 year-old
old Samsung laser printer. I needed to clean the roller
that feeds paper from the tray, as it was pulling double
sheets and jamming.
I feel like printers are something that have gotten worse
over the years, so I'm interested in keeping this thing
going. PCL support, cheap toners, only 8000 pages on the
engine.)
Excellent explanation, thank you; and that actually makes good
sense..... if you're a developer. Perhaps I should have added that to
my statement above about it not making sense (for a "normal" user).
Docker does not help that much with backups in that scenario
because docker instances are supposed to be stateless. You
typically have a storage backend for managing persistent data.
Excellent explanation, thank you; and that actually makes good
sense..... if you're a developer. Perhaps I should have added that to
my statement above about it not making sense (for a "normal" user).
I feel like printers are something that have gotten worse over the
years, so I'm interested in keeping this thing going. PCL support, cheap toners, only 8000 pages on the engine.)
Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I have a fine HP CP2025d from about 14 years ago. The genuine
OEM toners are not too cheap at about $180 each, or $500 for a
3-colour set. But I get over a year per cartridge. The black
might get used up sooner though.
acn wrote to Gamgee <=-
[Docker]
Excellent explanation, thank you; and that actually makes good
sense..... if you're a developer. Perhaps I should have added that to
my statement above about it not making sense (for a "normal" user).
I just have to add that although Docker (and other similar
container systems) is good for developing software, it might not
be the best idea for serving applications "in production".
At least from the standpoint of a systems administrator...
My reason is:
When using "normal" distributions (like Debian/Devuan), all
dependencies are managed by the distributions' package management
system and thus get updated in a central way.
But with containers, you have to rely on the base containers to
be on the latest version (or: on the version without security
problems) and (as sometimes also the container with the
application also contains libraries) also the application
container.
Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
Docker does not help that much with backups in that scenario
because docker instances are supposed to be stateless. You
typically have a storage backend for managing persistent data.
Excellent explanation, thank you; and that actually makes good
sense..... if you're a developer. Perhaps I should have added that to
my statement above about it not making sense (for a "normal" user).
I guess if you are a regular user, docker makes less sense. There
are lots of desktop specific systems for distributing software in
an encapsulated format (snap, flatpak, AppImage) which are better
tailored for desktops. Still I am not a fan of them.
I like the OpenBSD approach better. Install everything via
ports/packages. If aprogram needs sandboxing, it can request it
itself via the pledge() and unveil() systemcalls.
highlighter rolling into the exit feed area. What I love about it is the cheap ink - a set of color tanks (3 colors, one pigment black and one document black) are around $12 on Amazon, so I don't have to sweat using the printer like I did when I had a 2 tank inkjet at $50 a pop.
I'm plausibly in the market for a printer, but I print so
rarely that I tend to find other options. And I'd get a
laser printer, but that it's somewhat hard to justify the
space, currently. And then I'd have to figure out which one
to get.
Reminds me that I probably do have a greater need for a
document scanner, as that helps me get rid of the various
paper messes I have.
I went away from ink jets once I realized that my, "print something
every month or two" habit led to dried out cartridges and "buy new ink
every month or two".
Any idea if ink jets got better on that?
Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
I like the OpenBSD approach better. Install everything via ports/packages. If aprogram needs sandboxing, it can request it itself via the pledge() and unveil() systemcalls.
I've told myself for years that I should learn one (or more) of the BSD's, but have never gotten around to it. Maybe I'll bump that up on
my TODO list a little. Would you recommend trying OpenBSD first, or FreeBSD? Related question - once you "know" one of them, is the other one easy/similar?
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I went away from ink jets once I realized that my, "print something
every month or two" habit led to dried out cartridges and "buy new ink every month or two".
Any idea if ink jets got better on that?
I'm plausibly in the market for a printer, but I print so rarely that I tend to find other options. And I'd get a laser printer, but that it's somewhat hard to justify the space, currently. And then I'd have to
figure out which one to get.
Reminds me that I probably do have a greater need for a document
scanner, as that helps me get rid of the various paper messes I have.
Gamgee wrote to Arelor <=-
I've told myself for years that I should learn one (or more) of the
BSD's, but have never gotten around to it. Maybe I'll bump that up on
my TODO list a little. Would you recommend trying OpenBSD first, or FreeBSD? Related question - once you "know" one of them, is the other
one easy/similar?
tenser wrote to Gamgee <=-
I've told myself for years that I should learn one (or more) of the
BSD's, but have never gotten around to it. Maybe I'll bump that up on
my TODO list a little. Would you recommend trying OpenBSD first, or FreeBSD? Related question - once you "know" one of them, is the other
one easy/similar?
I think it depends very much on what you want to do with
the system. OpenBSD is a lot closer to the "old school"
BSD experience, a la 4.3 or SunOS 4. It makes a reasonable
server or firewall. But if you're used to a more canned
experience, it may be frustrating out of the box (in that
sense, it's probably closer to, say, Arch Linux than to
Mint). Software in ports on OpenBSD tends to lag behind
released versions by a good bit.
On the other hand, FreeBSD also makes a fine server, but
tends more toward the modern than OpenBSD; it's not too
terribly hard to set it up as a workstation, I suspect.
I've run both for many years; on edge devices and things
exposed to the Internet I tend to run OpenBSD. I run a
FreeBSD server for kicks. I use neither as a workstation
anymore.
So...what do you want to do with it?
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
I've told myself for years that I should learn one (or more) of the
BSD's, but have never gotten around to it. Maybe I'll bump that up on
my TODO list a little. Would you recommend trying OpenBSD first, or FreeBSD? Related question - once you "know" one of them, is the other
one easy/similar?
I'd start with FreeBSD first, then work your way to NetBSD if you
want wider hardware support and OpenBSD if you want to DIY.
My admittedly 50,000 foot take on the current state of BSD is
that FreeBSD and derivatives remind me of the convenience of Debian/Ubuntu/Mint, whereas NetBSD and OpenBSD are reminiscent of
Arch and Slackware Linux, where you can tweak the system exactly
how you like at the trade-off of more manual configuration being
needed.
As for what platforms are supported by NetBSD, see below. This is
in addition to the standard Sparc64, AMD64, x86, and assorted
mainstream architectures.
Thank you for that excellent description of the differences. At this point I don't really have anything in mind regarding what to do with it... other than just getting it running and becoming familiar with it. Perhaps a "homelab server" which would be not much more than a file storage repository. I currently use Slackware Linux pretty much exclusively, other than a couple of RPi's running Raspbian. Mostly this would be a learning/experiment/for-fun thing. Thanks again for the
info.
I have a fine HP CP2025d from about 14 years ago. The genuine
OEM toners are not too cheap at about $180 each, or $500 for a
3-colour set. But I get over a year per cartridge. The black
might get used up sooner though.
Ouch!
I like the OpenBSD approach better. Install everything via ports/packages. If aprogram needs sandboxing, it can request it
itself via the pledge() and unveil() systemcalls.
I've told myself for years that I should learn one (or more) of the
BSD's, but have never gotten around to it. Maybe I'll bump that up on
my TODO list a little. Would you recommend trying OpenBSD first, or FreeBSD? Related question - once you "know" one of them, is the other
one easy/similar?
Debian/Ubuntu/Mint, whereas NetBSD and OpenBSD are reminiscent of Arch
and Slackware Linux, where you can tweak the system exactly how you like
at the trade-off of more manual configuration being needed.
Ecotank is fustrating me. Im thinking about eating
up my ink bottles and just giving up on the machine.
Reminds me that I probably do have a greater need for a
document scanner, as that helps me get rid of the various
paper messes I have.
There are laser/scanner combos, but then I think you end up
having to buy a colour printer - and the whole thing is much
larger.
Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
I've told myself for years that I should learn one (or more) of the
BSD's, but have never gotten around to it. Maybe I'll bump that up on
my TODO list a little. Would you recommend trying OpenBSD first, or FreeBSD? Related question - once you "know" one of them, is the other
one easy/similar?
Slackware is very BSDish, so any of the three big BSD should be
easy to pick up.
Each mayor BSD is a different Operating System and they are not
that similar. They are pretty much the same on the surface - the
classical Linux utilities like tar, awk, sed etc. have their BSD counterparts, but then kernel capabilities and OS administration
differ. Firewall utilities are different. Package management is
different. MAC/sandboxing (for the BSD that support such things)
are different. If you are used to a BSD and suddenly need to
administrate another, the differences won't shock you but you
will totally haveto relearn some of the tools.
As for which BSD to try first, it depends on what you want.
OpenBSD is developed by IT nerds for their own use, and non-devs
get to enjoy the ride if it happens to suit their needs. What
this means is OpenBSD has very clean implementations for the
things it does but it lacks some features you'd take for granted everywhere else because the devs don't give a damn. ie. if the
devsdon't like blutooth as a protocol then you will never ever
use your blutooth speakers on OpenBSD. In exchange, you get a
very tightly developped set of userland utilities.
OpenBSD is the OS I would pick for a small home server, because
OpenBSD maintains its own http daemon with very tight privilege
separation and sandboxing. They also develop their own SMTPD
in-house and same advantages apply. Firewalling is also
developped in-house. OpenBSD's utilities and services have just
enough features to serve medium sized deployments while featuring non-bullshit configuration processes - administration is very Slackware-like.
FreeBSD is more of a corporate product so the kernel has more
features and it is a bit more Linux compatible. You may expect
better performance, a modern filesystem with COW support, and
better vendor support. FreeBSD is not as tightwhen it comes to
default process isolation and their MAC framework requires some
work to understand (think SELinux).
I personally use OpenBSD mostly everywhere because its system
layout feels moresane, but that means that I often need some
feature that is not supported and end up having to build it in
myself. FreeBSD is more likely to support a randomfeature or a
given package you may one day discover you need.
NetBSD deserves special metion because it is developped very
aggressively but to a fine quality standard. Dragonfly is a small
project but it is known for their HAMMER filesystem and its
advanced multithreading. I have never used Dragon and my
experience with Net is not meaningful.
Which to pick for testing is a matter of choice. FreeBSD feels
much more production ready. OpenBSD feels like the product of a
bunch of hardcore Unix advocates building the sort of modern
Unix-like they want to run at home.
The fun part with OpenSource is exploring the options, I guess XD
nugax wrote to Gamgee <=-
I would suggest FreeBSD. OpenBSD is nice, but I prefer the
original. I am considering moving the WHQ BBS to FreeBSD, but I
would have to enable compiling on that platform. Right now, I
just compile Linux/64 while developing.
[snip]
They are pretty much the same on the surface - the classical
Linux utilities like tar, awk, sed etc. have their BSD counterparts, but then kernel capabilities and OS administration differ. Firewall
Well, there have been over 17k pulls of the docker image(s)
I would suggest FreeBSD. OpenBSD is nice, but I prefer the original. I am considering moving the WHQ BBS to FreeBSD, but I would have to enable compiling on that platform. Right now, I just compile Linux/64 while developing.
-Nugax (cbbs)
--- CyberBBS v1.0.11 2023/04/12 [Debian Linux/x64]
* Origin: CyberBBS WHQ BBS | Telnet: whq.cyberbbs.dev:6023 (21:1/167)
Ooophf; point of order: those aren't classical "Linux" utilities,
they're classical _Unix_ utilities. Most Linux distros get the
userland tools from GNU, whereas BSD inherited them from Unix and
each project maintains its own userspace.
Afaik FreeBSD is not the original.
NetBSD has an initial release date set at 19 April 1993, whereas Freebsd has it on 1 November 1993.
NetBSD was derived from 386BSD just the same as FreeBSD. OpenBSD is a
fork of NetBSD. If anything, the o"original" the big *BSDs are branched from is 386BSD.
Re: Re: Synchronet vs Mystic vs ??
By: tenser to Arelor on Mon Apr 24 2023 07:23 am
Ooophf; point of order: those aren't classical "Linux" utilities, they're classical _Unix_ utilities. Most Linux distros get the userland tools from GNU, whereas BSD inherited them from Unix and
each project maintains its own userspace.
I think I have expressed myself quite badly there. What I meant is that core utilities Linux users take for granted have their BSD versions (and if you check the source code, often predate Linux by a mile).
Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I don't know about NetBSD, but one of OpenBSD's objectives is to have defaults good enough that no tweaking is necessary at a low level.
Which means they strive to have services you can install and forget.
For example, the default httpd launches chrooted and with privilege separation and sandboxing enabled by default, and the only thing you
are expected to do is to configure your domains and TLS certs and such. You can break out of the defaults if needed, but if you have to do it
is considered a bit of a failure on their part.
Thanks for the printer recommendation, regardless. I had
previously used a Brother laser printer, and liked it. But
I suppose the open question is what's good quality _now_
for printers, rather than who made good printers 15+ years
ago.
It's pretty easy these days with people leaving reviews.
Java is excellent at what it does, and is still an industry leader in a lot of places. JavaScript isn't really a competitor or anything, the intended use case and problems it addresses are completely different. But yeah, it's always seemed screwy to me that they chose to use the name "javascript"...alas...
My othernet hub, back in the day, ran 10 DOS nodes running Remote
Access. He needed another node for a file server, some DOS-level networking that wasn't LANTastic, and a room full of beige desktops running on baker's racks with cabling everywhere. It was a pretty
amazing sight to see back then.
Yeah, at the time, Synchronet probably would have cost a bit much for me too (I was 14 years old when I started my first BBS). Also, somehow I wasn't aware of Synchronet at the time either. I don't remember seeeing any Synchronet BBSes in my area in the 90s.
There was a crack and 250-node key combo that was created and released (for sbbs v2) at some point too. I think I have it available for download on Vertrauen. It turns out roll-your-own-copy-protection is probably not the best idea I've ever had. :-)
Maybe you're thinking of Mustang Software, the company that made
Wildcat?
Right - Wildcat! was also a cool one; if the sysop/bbS used it/modified it in a good way... I guess nothings changed in 30+ years. :P
I figured (but don't really know) that Python found various niches, so expanded in popularity, whereas Java found those things much earlier.
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't moved Windows to a subscription model yet.
Software-as-a-Service needs to die in a fire for the most part. I don't mind it when there's a legitimate reason why you'd expect a recurring cost (like cloud storage, for instance), but 90% don't have a legitimate reason, and 50% of the remaining 10% seem to have shoehorned that reason in (like implementing cloud storage when it's completely unnecessary).
There was a crack and 250-node key combo that was created and released (for sbbs v2) at some point too. I think I have it available for download on Vertrauen. It turns out roll-your-own-copy-protection is probably not the best idea I've ever had. :-)
I find the fact that you have a crack for your own software on your BBS infinitely amusing (to say the least). :-)
I made the switch to linux a few months ago on all of my PC's (except one windows vm to run windows specific software). There are heaps of free software packages that do pretty much the same thing ie. GIMP. I just can't find anything that edits PDFs as well as acrobat.
Python started out as a language designed for teaching programming. It in turn got used a lot in higher education, and eventually grew from there. At least this is my understanding.
Adept wrote to Ogg <=-
It's pretty easy these days with people leaving reviews.
Yeah, though sometimes reviews wind up being, "And my printer failed immediately!". But when I look at a variety of printers, that's a
review that most all of them have. So it's a matter of comparison, and
if there's only 10 reviews, or I'm in the wrong place, or whatever...
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't moved Windows to a subscription model
yet.
They would love to!
Yeah, but they get a cut of the sales cost of EVERY FRAKKING PC SOLD. That'll keep them happy.
I've never really seen the point of docker. Seems like a lot of extra work for..... what? Security? I'm on a home LAN and am not worried
about that. As for backups etc... not sure how it could really be
easier than an automated rsync (or similar) every night, to both a LAN device, and an off-location device. But anyway.... <SHRUG>.
Excellent explanation, thank you; and that actually makes good
sense..... if you're a developer. Perhaps I should have added that to
my statement above about it not making sense (for a "normal" user).
But with containers, you have to rely on the base containers to be on
the latest version (or: on the version without security problems) and
(as sometimes also the container with the application also contains libraries) also the application container.
Python started out as a language designed for teaching programming. It
in turn got used a lot in higher education, and eventually grew from
there. At least this is my understanding.
Maybe you're thinking of Pascal?
Similar boat here, even if I was a couple years older (born in '74). There were about 4-5 Synchronet boards in the Phoenix area, mostly 2-8 line BBSes, seemed to be the option most were running for multiline. There were a handful of MajorBBS boards as well, 2 smaller (6 line) and a couple really big 24-50 lines (rock garden and flatlands iirc).
after calling around and realizing that every, single, wildcat board looked exactly the same, I just stopped altogether. There were so many in 602 back then... mostly hung out on the Renegade/Telegard boards (1993-1997).
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't moved Windows to a subscription model
yet.
Someone else probably already chimed in, but they really have. If you're even a mid sized company, you're probably on an annual licensing/support model. Very similar to how Office365 pretty much took over in the business space for the licensing.
At least with Amazon, I don't think you can write a review if you
haven't bought the thing.
I find that interesting, as I don't remember seeing any Synchronet BBSes in my area in the 90s (I hadn't heard about Synchronet until I was
looking up BBS packages to start my BBS again in 2007). Many of the bigger BBSes in my area running multiple nodes seemed to use MajorBBS,
and some of them were running Wildcat or perhaps RemoteAccess. I only
had 1 phone line though, so the 2-node registration for RemoteAccess was within my reach.
I remember that as well for Wildcat boards in my area - Most of them looked pretty much the same for some reason.
As a "normal user" you don't run what the developer creates? Would you rath
others except the o-zone which was a bit later and telnet-only. until sync3
Coax because the cards, cables etc were dirt cheap and didn't have a lot of money back then (working two jobs) until I managed to get a paying job doing helpdesk support and shifted web development. Was definitely a relatively fun time in my life.
I find that interesting, as I don't remember seeing any Synchronet BBSes in my area in the 90s (I hadn't heard about Synchronet until I was looking up BBS packages to start my BBS again in 2007). Many of the bigger BBSes
Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
I've never really seen the point of docker. Seems like a lot of extra
work for..... what? Security? I'm on a home LAN and am not worried
about that. As for backups etc... not sure how it could really be
easier than an automated rsync (or similar) every night, to both a LAN device, and an off-location device. But anyway.... <SHRUG>.
All around, just easier to deal with in terms of automation and
different software on a given system with less overhead than full
VMs. The software is packaged with all its dependencies. This
generally means if a given version of Library X works with
software A, but software B requires a different version, you get
a gold copy of each software with what *it* needs.
The reasons to do so are very similar to why you might run
separate VMs for different software installs, without the
overhead of full VMs and a few other benefits as well. Such as
compose, swarm, k8s and other options that let you run not just a
given software, but related softwares as well. If you run
something that requires a database service, redis cache, traefik
proxy, etc... you can have this all defined in a single stack
that will stand up and communicate with the other services
appropriately.
Backup is roughly the same, except you don't really need to
trapse around for config files over hear, other options there,
and data somewhere else. It's in one root. Of course with
synchronet, this generally also means your executables are there
too, which is one thing you don't typically want with a Docker
image as the image is meant to contain the executables, and all
the data/storage is in volume mounts that are separate.
Upgrading is generally just run the new version against the same
data volumes and it transparently upgrades and is now running the
new version against your existing data, no muss, no fuss.
Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
Excellent explanation, thank you; and that actually makes good
sense..... if you're a developer. Perhaps I should have added that to
my statement above about it not making sense (for a "normal" user).
As a "normal user" you don't run what the developer creates?
Would you rather have a 5-page guide on installing something, or
1-3 lines you can run on the command line?
But, really, I'm over complicating it. Certainly, there are
technical review sites that'd lead me to the right place
anyway, and in Germany I have no doubt that there are
ratings somewhere telling me about the highest-rated
printers for a given need.
I networked the BBS running DOS and my desktop running OS/2. LANTastic didn't support OS/2, so I made a custom DOS VDM for it. Unlike a modern virtual machine, it could share the filesystem with OS/2.
It's my theory that BBSes grew organically. Someone starts a BBS
running package X, local callers, if they like it, choose package X
when they start their BBS. Get enough BBSes going and you have critical mass.
Python started out as a language designed for teaching programming. It
in turn got used a lot in higher education, and eventually grew from there. At least this is my understanding.
Running Linux mostly myself... though don't use Acrobat for editing
PDFs, I really can't stand GIMP. It just isn't great, it's too hard for the easy stuff and not feature rich enough for the pro stuff.
At least with Amazon, I don't think you can write a review if you
haven't bought the thing.
Ogg wrote to Adept <=-
A simple search for "top-rated laser printers for home use"
could be a starting point, and an article from a reasonably
reliable researcher. I wouldn't necessarily pick the cheapest
though.
I remember that as well for Wildcat boards in my area - Most of them
looked pretty much the same for some reason.
for a long time you could get away with this.. long distance was a killer..
I find that interesting, as I don't remember seeing any Synchronet
BBSes in my area in the 90s (I hadn't heard about Synchronet until I
was looking up BBS packages to start my BBS again in 2007). Many of
the bigger BBSes
It's my theory that BBSes grew organically. Someone starts a BBS running package X, local callers, if they like it, choose package X when they start their BBS. Get enough BBSes going and you have critical mass.
WWIV and Forum were the two primary packages in 415 when I was starting out -- later Searchlight for small BBSes and PCBoard/TBBS for the pay boards.
There were many BBS packages I remember being used in my area: RemoteAccess, WWIV, Searchlight, Wildcat, Maximus, MajorBBS, Spitfire, Ezycom, TAG, Telegard Renegade, and probably others. It sounds like Synchronet was another popular one, so I'm a little surprised I don't remember seeing any Synchronet BBSes in my area.
At least with Amazon, I don't think you can write a review if you haven't bought the thing.I think I distrust Amazon reviews, too, as I think they also have a significant fake-reviewer problem.
But Python's Wikipedia article doesn't mention that at all. So anyone have knowledge on the claims on it being designed for teaching?
I think I distrust Amazon reviews, too, as I think they also have a significant fake-reviewer problem.
True. My Word 2007 seems to have output to PDF option. But
those apps were no good of you already had a PDF and just
wanted to build a new PDF file out of an existing one.
Maybe the reason is "Slackware". ;-)
The fun part with OpenSource is exploring the options, I guess XD
Linux, on the other hand, was a complete reimplementation
from scratch. Linus Torvalds wanted something that took
better advantage of his hardware than Minix, the teaching
system by Andy Tannenbaum that he had been running. Linux
took a far more traditional approach to building a Unix-like
system, in that it's a monolithic kernel (the kernel exists
in a single address space), while Minix is a microkernel
(services are logically distinct and isolated from one
another, and communicate via message-passing). Famously,
Tannenbaum took Torvalds to task for this decision, declaring
Linux obsolete before it was finished. Of course, it is now,
by far, the most popular and important operating system in
the world.
Maybe the reason is "Slackware". ;-)
Wow, is Slackware still alive?
Maybe the reason is "Slackware". ;-)
Wow, is Slackware still alive?
Wow, is Slackware still alive?
I think I distrust Amazon reviews, too, as I think they also have a significant fake-reviewer problem.
I agree that Amazon reviews should be taken with a huge grain of salt,
but for me the problem is two-fold, you have positive reviews that seem
a little less than legit, and you have negative reviews by idiots who didn't read the manual or don't understand what it is they were buying.
Yeah, that's what I've often thought too.
There were many BBS packages I remember being used in my area: RemoteAccess, WWIV, Searchlight, Wildcat, Maximus, MajorBBS, Spitfire, Ezycom, TAG, Telegard, Renegade, and probably others. It sounds like Synchronet was another popular one, so I'm a little surprised I don't remember seeing any Synchronet BBSes in my area.
hollowone wrote to Gamgee <=-
Maybe the reason is "Slackware". ;-)
Wow, is Slackware still alive?
Ezycom, TAG, Telegard, Renegade, and probably others. It sounds like
Synchronet was another popular one, so I'm a little surprised I don't
remember seeing any Synchronet BBSes in my area.
I don't think Synchronet was more popular than those you mentioned, necessarily (I don't know for sure), but I do think Synchronet was *newer* (introduced later) than those you mentioned (1992). So while Synchronet was was still increasing in popularity when the bottom fell out of the BBS "market", I don't think it really surpassed in popularity any of those you listed until the 2000's.
our local bbs here was majorbbs too. first synchronet bbs i called was in california (i'm in michigan..) and it cost me a pretty penny in long distance. i don't remember what it was called but i think it was filled with teenagers (which i was at the time) .. possibly run by a local high school or something?
second one the moment my account was created the sysop dropped me into chat and we talked a while. i think he was quite old. don't think i saw any others except the o-zone which was a bit later and telnet-only. until sync3 came along it seemed pretty obscure.
Just like the previous message of yours to me, this one makes no sense
to me, either. I don't do ANY of the things you describe, and I don't
try to make things more complicated than they have to be, just because I think I can.
Would you rather have a 5-page guide on installing something,or 1-3 lines you can run on the command line?
Now we are talking about installing software? How did we jump to that?
A simple search for "top-rated laser printers for home use"
could be a starting point, and an article from a reasonably
reliable researcher. I wouldn't necessarily pick the cheapest
though.
I acquired the wireless version of the HP P1005 years ago for a
church library. Later, when the library was downsided and
later eliminated, I regret that I didn't ask if I could have
the printer.
Running Linux mostly myself... though don't use Acrobat for editing
PDFs, I really can't stand GIMP. It just isn't great, it's too hard
for the easy stuff and not feature rich enough for the pro stuff.
Do you have a pro-stuff example?
One thing that frustrates me about Amazon is that they link different versions of a product together for the reviews. Years ago, I was reading through reviews for an HP computer (and I had wrote a review myself for it) - My review was talking about one with an AMD processor, and there were people commenting that my review must be wrong because it has an Intel processor, etc.. I realized that the same HP computer model came in versions with an AMD processor and some with Intel, and Amazon's product page had reviews for both/all of those for the same product listing. It makes for confusing reviews sometimes.
One thing that frustrates me about Amazon is that they link
different versions of a product together for the reviews. Years ago,
I was reading through reviews for an HP computer (and I had wrote a
review myself for it) - My review was talking about one with an AMD
processor, and there were people commenting that my review must be
wrong because it has an Intel processor, etc.. I realized that the
Yeah, sellers have been doing this, it's supposed to be to support having
Raw images, proper colors for print work are the two that come to the forfront. That doesn't even approach the more advanced stuff in more recent PS versions.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 297 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 95:13:53 |
| Calls: | 6,659 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 12,206 |
| Messages: | 5,334,409 |