• Getting new users

    From Matt Munson@21:4/108 to All on Mon Oct 10 09:16:52 2022

    Hello everybody!

    The problem is we have to make a user interface that isnt foreign to these people. I was trying to encourage Santronics instead of making a Wildcat Navigator like AOL days, just make an Android and IOS app for a potential version 9. That would make people more likely want to interact with the BBS world at the same time.

    Matt


    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (21:4/108)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Matt Munson on Mon Oct 10 12:35:55 2022
    Re: Getting new users
    By: Matt Munson to All on Mon Oct 10 2022 09:16 am

    The problem is we have to make a user interface that isnt foreign to these people. I was trying to encourage Santronics instead of making a Wildcat Navigator like AOL days, just make an Android and IOS app for a potential version 9. That would make people more likely want to interact with the BBS world at the same time.

    Regarding this, one thing I keep thinking about is that BBSes like the ones we run are a retro tchnology as far as their interface, and many of us sysops run BBSes for nostalgia, to preserve these systems of ours with the text interface, ANSI art, and way of interacting with the BBS.
    As more modern features (such as a mobile app, web interface, etc.) are added to our BBSes, it feels like we're re-creating what has already been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature of the BBSes we run, and that's why we run them.

    Also, what would you a mobile app to do with a BBS? Do you imagine a mobile app that allows users to read & post messages, upload & download files, etc? Or would it be something more basic like a telnet app? Mobile telnet apps do exist. And if you make a mobile app for reading & posting messages & accessing the files, etc., then you'd still probably want it to have some way to allow users to play the door games. Switching into a text mode would be good, at least, and RIP support would be interesting too.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Tue Oct 11 23:26:54 2022
    The problem is we have to make a user interface that isnt foreign to people. I was trying to encourage Santronics instead of making a Wild Navigator like AOL days, just make an Android and IOS app for a poten version 9. That would make people more likely want to interact with t BBS world at the same time.

    Regarding this, one thing I keep thinking about is that BBSes like the ones we run are a retro tchnology as far as their interface, and many of us sysops run BBSes for nostalgia, to preserve these systems of ours
    with the text interface, ANSI art, and way of interacting with the BBS.
    As more modern features (such as a mobile app, web interface, etc.) are added to our BBSes, it feels like we're re-creating what has already
    been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature of the BBSes
    we run, and that's why we run them.

    Also, what would you a mobile app to do with a BBS? Do you imagine a mobile app that allows users to read & post messages, upload & download files, etc? Or would it be something more basic like a telnet app? Mobile telnet apps do exist. And if you make a mobile app for reading & posting messages & accessing the files, etc., then you'd still probably want it to have some way to allow users to play the door games.
    Switching into a text mode would be good, at least, and RIP support
    would be interesting too.

    Nightfox

    Completely agree. There are already mobile and web versions of chat and messaging and forum and email services, so why reimplement it? Trying to "modernise" the BBS would just be an exercise in reinventing Matrix, Web Forums, email, XMPP or Signal from scratch.

    If I want to chat with someone over mobile, there are already mobile options! Why would be I bother with a BBS on the phone when I can use signal instead?

    I think it is more valuable for BBS's to exist as they used to be, to serve as a working example of how things used to be, a different world. It is like a heritage building. Heritage buildings are kept as they are, because we want to still have the past with us.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to boraxman on Fri Oct 14 11:39:00 2022
    On 10-11-22 23:26, boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Completely agree. There are already mobile and web versions of chat
    and messaging and forum and email services, so why reimplement it?
    Trying to "modernise" the BBS would just be an exercise in reinventing Matrix, Web Forums, email, XMPP or Signal from scratch.

    I partly agree. Sure, there's many messaging apps, too many one might argue. The biggest issue is they're generally walled gardens, requiring users to keep a multitude of them on their devices. And real time short messaging is well covered by these apps.

    As for web forums, that's a whole different kettle of fish. Web forums suffer from a "one size fits all" mentality, when it comes to the interface. The idea that _everyone_ wants to use a web based GUI interface that works in a particular way is rather absurd, really. Most web forums from here are very sluggish, because of the number of requests required to build a page (with ~200 mS RTT on each set of requests - most forums are on the other side of the planet, and physics kinda gets in the way). I have had better performance out of locally installed web forums, but the navigation still leaves a bit to be desired.

    One thing some modern BBSs (especially Synchronet) do well is diversity of access - web is there, as well as telnet, POP/IMAP, NNTP for messaging, with FTP also available for file transfer. And one can even go totally offline for messaging (as I am now).

    I think it is more valuable for BBS's to exist as they used to be, to serve as a working example of how things used to be, a different world.
    It is like a heritage building. Heritage buildings are kept as they
    are, because we want to still have the past with us.

    Actually they're not in many cases - the facade has to stay, but I have seen totally modern buildings behind the original facade, or even buildings where the heritage and modern are tastefully blended together.

    I'm not a fan of "this is what XXX is and we won't change" type of thinking. I am notorious for using software in ways the author never intended! :D


    ... You may start by impressing - _ME_ !! - Worf
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Fri Oct 14 13:26:42 2022
    Re: Re: Getting new users
    By: Vk3jed to boraxman on Fri Oct 14 2022 11:39 am

    As for web forums, that's a whole different kettle of fish. Web forums suff from a "one size fits all" mentality, when it comes to the interface. The i that _everyone_ wants to use a web based GUI interface that works in a particular way is rather absurd, really. Most web forums from here are very sluggish, because of the number of requests required to build a page (with ~ mS RTT on each set of requests - most forums are on the other side of the planet, and physics kinda gets in the way). I have had better performance o of locally installed web forums, but the navigation still leaves a bit to be desired.

    I commend the forum from Baen books from having both a mailing-list interface and an NNTP interface, just in case you don't like the WWW one.

    FluxBBS is quite of ok for a web forum. At least it does not push javascript down your throat.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Sun Oct 16 00:08:42 2022
    Completely agree. There are already mobile and web versions of chat and messaging and forum and email services, so why reimplement it? Trying to "modernise" the BBS would just be an exercise in reinventin Matrix, Web Forums, email, XMPP or Signal from scratch.

    I partly agree. Sure, there's many messaging apps, too many one might argue. The biggest issue is they're generally walled gardens, requiring users to keep a multitude of them on their devices. And real time short messaging is well covered by these apps.


    It is an annoying situation to be sure. Having different messaging systems, each with a different subset of your contacts, each with its own interface, notifications. I've dropped all but one.

    As for web forums, that's a whole different kettle of fish. Web forums suffer from a "one size fits all" mentality, when it comes to the interface. The idea that _everyone_ wants to use a web based GUI interface that works in a particular way is rather absurd, really. Most web forums from here are very sluggish, because of the number of
    requests required to build a page (with ~200 mS RTT on each set of requests - most forums are on the other side of the planet, and physics kinda gets in the way). I have had better performance out of locally installed web forums, but the navigation still leaves a bit to be
    desired.

    One thing some modern BBSs (especially Synchronet) do well is diversity
    of access - web is there, as well as telnet, POP/IMAP, NNTP for
    messaging, with FTP also available for file transfer. And one can even
    go totally offline for messaging (as I am now).


    Web forums can be responsive, but they are generally not built that way. Some discussion places, such as Reddit are horrendously slow, and only made tolerable with TUI clients such as "Reddit Terminal Viewer".

    I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do mostly just use the BBS itself, and occasionally use Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode" interface, which is less cluttered, allows focus. This view would be a minority view, I bet.

    Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having to log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface would be a major hurdle overcome in making it more accessible. This would mean that a QWK reader on the mobile could draw new message, and upload, without having to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to be navigated for updates.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to boraxman on Sat Oct 15 18:54:00 2022
    Hello boraxman!

    ** On Sunday 16.10.22 - 00:08, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed:

    I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do
    mostly just use the BBS itself, and occasionally use
    Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode" interface, which is
    less cluttered, allows focus. This view would be a
    minority view, I bet.

    Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having
    to log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface
    would be a major hurdle overcome in making it more
    accessible. This would mean that a QWK reader on the
    mobile could draw new message, and upload, without having
    to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to
    be navigated for updates.

    Check out OpenXP. It will do all that. All you will need to
    establish is a point address for each particular FTN that you
    want to be a member of. For NNTP, it's pretty straight forward
    too. You might appreciate the "text mode" interface too.

    Screenshots here: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/




    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Ogg on Sun Oct 16 17:50:59 2022
    Hello boraxman!

    ** On Sunday 16.10.22 - 00:08, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed:

    I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do
    mostly just use the BBS itself, and occasionally use
    Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode" interface, which is
    less cluttered, allows focus. This view would be a
    minority view, I bet.

    Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having
    to log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface
    would be a major hurdle overcome in making it more
    accessible. This would mean that a QWK reader on the
    mobile could draw new message, and upload, without having
    to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to
    be navigated for updates.

    Check out OpenXP. It will do all that. All you will need to
    establish is a point address for each particular FTN that you
    want to be a member of. For NNTP, it's pretty straight forward
    too. You might appreciate the "text mode" interface too.

    Screenshots here: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/


    I'm trying to get it running now. It seems to, after creating the necessary directories, now just exit immediately upon running. I'll try an earlier version and see how I go.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to boraxman on Sun Oct 16 14:56:00 2022
    Hello boraxman!

    ** On Sunday 16.10.22 - 17:50, boraxman wrote to Ogg:

    Screenshots here: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/


    I'm trying to get it running now. It seems to, after creating the necessary directories, now just exit immediately upon running. I'll try
    an earlier version and see how I go.

    The linux version may need a couple of tweeks before install
    depending on what distro you are using. More info about that
    in the POINTS or XPOINT echos. The latter is served directly
    via NNTP as well (alternatively gated into Fido), and is
    originally a google group.

    The latest version is .56

    I'm still comfortable with the .51 Windows version.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)
  • From Tracker1@21:3/149 to boraxman on Sun Oct 16 19:34:44 2022
    On 10/15/22 04:08, boraxman wrote:

    Web forums can be responsive, but they are generally not built that
    way. Some discussion places, such as Reddit are horrendously slow,
    and only made tolerable with TUI clients such as "Reddit Terminal
    Viewer".

    Yeah, in general web development, even when using good tools/frameworks usually winds up with some crazy dependencies that bring in the jungle
    for a banana... they can be good, but often aren't in practice, and the
    amount of effort it sometimes takes is more than a lot of people will make.

    I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do mostly just
    use the BBS itself, and occasionally use Multimail. I do prefer a
    "text mode" interface, which is less cluttered, allows focus. This
    view would be a minority view, I bet.

    Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having to log in
    through telnet and go through the BBS interface would be a major
    hurdle overcome in making it more accessible. This would mean that a
    QWK reader on the mobile could draw new message, and upload, without
    having to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to be navigated for updates.

    Synchronet supports both of those use cases pretty well... NNTP is in
    the box, though not always the speediest thing. As to QWK, it will
    generate on demand via FTP, would be nice if it had endpoints for HTTP GET/POST that worked the same way though.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Ogg on Tue Oct 18 13:29:36 2022

    Screenshots here: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/


    I'm trying to get it running now. It seems to, after creating the necessary directories, now just exit immediately upon running. I'll t an earlier version and see how I go.

    The linux version may need a couple of tweeks before install
    depending on what distro you are using. More info about that
    in the POINTS or XPOINT echos. The latter is served directly
    via NNTP as well (alternatively gated into Fido), and is
    originally a google group.

    The latest version is .56

    I'm still comfortable with the .51 Windows version.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51

    I've found an earlier RPM version that works now. Thank you.

    Just need to spend a little time to configure it. I'm not all too familiar with this technology.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Tracker1 on Tue Oct 18 13:45:10 2022
    Web forums can be responsive, but they are generally not built that way. Some discussion places, such as Reddit are horrendously slow,
    and only made tolerable with TUI clients such as "Reddit Terminal Viewer".

    Yeah, in general web development, even when using good tools/frameworks usually winds up with some crazy dependencies that bring in the jungle for a banana... they can be good, but often aren't in practice, and the amount of effort it sometimes takes is more than a lot of people will make.

    It's amazing how easy it is today, to want a simple library, and end up pulling in 20+ dependencies which add megabytes. Occasionally I'll install some program written in Python or Ruby, or something which uses npm, and find a simple tool needs to download all these dependencies. At this point I back away like someone stumbling across a rattlesnake.

    I do think a lot of devs are either arrogant, or simply don't really understand economy, or how computers actually work. I find a lot of the solutions that come out of the software industry now completely inexcusable, things that in any other engineering industry would not be tolerated.

    I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do mostly just use the BBS itself, and occasionally use Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode" interface, which is less cluttered, allows focus. This view would be a minority view, I bet.

    Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having to log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface would be a major
    hurdle overcome in making it more accessible. This would mean that a QWK reader on the mobile could draw new message, and upload, without having to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to be navigated for updates.

    Synchronet supports both of those use cases pretty well... NNTP is in
    the box, though not always the speediest thing. As to QWK, it will generate on demand via FTP, would be nice if it had endpoints for HTTP GET/POST that worked the same way though.
    --

    I'm trying OpenXP, but haven't gotten it working properly yet.

    I'm actually quite OK with my current workflow, but for others these extra steps I take could be the difference between them trying to engage in a BBS based discussion, or not bothering at all.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to boraxman on Tue Oct 18 08:07:00 2022
    Hello boraxman!

    ** On Tuesday 18.10.22 - 13:45, boraxman wrote to Tracker1:

    I'm trying OpenXP, but haven't gotten it working properly
    yet.

    Don't forget to take a look at the "user guide". It is an
    excellent step-by-step guide for a minimum configuration.


    I'm actually quite OK with my current workflow, but for
    others these extra steps I take could be the difference
    between them trying to engage in a BBS based discussion, or
    not bothering at all.

    OXP's built-in help is pretty good too. Simply press F1 at any
    one particular level in the program and it will display
    relevant help screens and subscreens.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Ogg on Wed Oct 19 11:21:08 2022
    I'm trying OpenXP, but haven't gotten it working properly
    yet.

    Don't forget to take a look at the "user guide". It is an
    excellent step-by-step guide for a minimum configuration.


    I'm actually quite OK with my current workflow, but for
    others these extra steps I take could be the difference
    between them trying to engage in a BBS based discussion, or
    not bothering at all.

    OXP's built-in help is pretty good too. Simply press F1 at any
    one particular level in the program and it will display
    relevant help screens and subscreens.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51

    I appreciate that, but for a lot of people, simply SEEING a text based program will make them run. I've discussed communications possibilities for an organisation with others, and for some, if there is no mobile "app", its a no go.

    I myself am OK with doing this, as would many people here, but for many, many people who we could want to court, OpenXP is not an option. Not saying this to disparage the software, I'm sure its good, but many people who are online (which is nearly everyone now) is used to a very simple touch-screen app.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to boraxman on Tue Oct 18 22:47:00 2022
    Hello boraxman!

    ** On Wednesday 19.10.22 - 11:21, boraxman wrote to Ogg:

    I appreciate that, but for a lot of people, simply SEEING a
    text based program will make them run. I've discussed
    communications possibilities for an organisation with
    others, and for some, if there is no mobile "app", its a no
    go.

    You're changing the subject! ;) My response was to your
    original statements:

    "occasionally use Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode"
    interface, which is less cluttered, allows focus."

    "Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having to
    log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface would be
    a major hurdle overcome in making it more accessible. This
    would mean that a QWK reader on the mobile could draw new
    message, and upload, without having to deal with the issues of
    rendering an 80x25 interface to be navigated for updates."

    And that is what OpenXP can achieve (I thought) for you.


    I myself am OK with doing this, as would many people here.. [...]

    Excellent. OpenXP is a much quicker way to manage participation
    in echomail. It has handy search capabilities for the entire
    "database" of messages. No more juggling QWK packets.


    [..], but for many, many people who we could want to court,
    OpenXP is not an option. Not saying this to disparage the
    software, I'm sure its good, but many people who are online
    (which is nearly everyone now) is used to a very simple
    touch-screen app.

    Find and dandy. But I thought you were expressing YOUR needs.

    There IS an "app" way to participate in some fidonet echos:
    Telegram. ;) Although the messaging style is chat-like in
    the Telegram realm, the Tg-BBS does a pretty good job quoting
    messages on their way back to the fidonet realm.

    Re-read my message of Aug 28 (msgid: 21:4/106.21@fsxnet
    ffdbceca) for info on how to give Tg-BBS a try.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Ogg on Wed Oct 19 23:51:50 2022
    ** On Wednesday 19.10.22 - 11:21, boraxman wrote to Ogg:

    I appreciate that, but for a lot of people, simply SEEING a
    text based program will make them run. I've discussed
    communications possibilities for an organisation with
    others, and for some, if there is no mobile "app", its a no
    go.

    You're changing the subject! ;) My response was to your
    original statements:

    "occasionally use Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode"
    interface, which is less cluttered, allows focus."

    "Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having to
    log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface would be
    a major hurdle overcome in making it more accessible. This
    would mean that a QWK reader on the mobile could draw new
    message, and upload, without having to deal with the issues of
    rendering an 80x25 interface to be navigated for updates."

    And that is what OpenXP can achieve (I thought) for you.


    Oh, for me it doesn't matter that much. I was thinking of other people who I know who might be interested in participating. For them, a working OpenXP setup could make things easier. But I would have to set it up for them first.
    I myself am OK with doing this, as would many people here.. [...]

    Excellent. OpenXP is a much quicker way to manage participation
    in echomail. It has handy search capabilities for the entire
    "database" of messages. No more juggling QWK packets.



    At the moment I'm recovering from a minor surgery, so my mind isn't really in a place where I can set this up right now, but I will let you know how it all goes.
    [..], but for many, many people who we could want to court,
    OpenXP is not an option. Not saying this to disparage the
    software, I'm sure its good, but many people who are online
    (which is nearly everyone now) is used to a very simple
    touch-screen app.

    Find and dandy. But I thought you were expressing YOUR needs.

    There IS an "app" way to participate in some fidonet echos:
    Telegram. ;) Although the messaging style is chat-like in
    the Telegram realm, the Tg-BBS does a pretty good job quoting
    messages on their way back to the fidonet realm.

    Re-read my message of Aug 28 (msgid: 21:4/106.21@fsxnet
    ffdbceca) for info on how to give Tg-BBS a try.


    To clarify, my personal needs are met with what I have. But others I know have expressed interest in a private BBS set up, but they would need to enter with as little friction as possible. So even though I may not be the "end user", being able to distribute a functional set up that allows others to access as easily as possible would be, in a way, in my interest too.

    Hope that makes sense.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Geri Atricks@21:4/102 to Nightfox on Mon Oct 10 17:39:48 2022
    Regarding this, one thing I keep thinking about is that BBSes like the ones we run are a retro tchnology as far as their interface, and many of us sysops run BBSes for nostalgia, to preserve these systems of ours
    with the text interface, ANSI art, and way of interacting with the BBS.
    As more modern features (such as a mobile app, web interface, etc.) are added to our BBSes, it feels like we're re-creating what has already
    been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature of the BBSes
    we run, and that's why we run them.

    ^^^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE ^^^^^

    Also, what would you a mobile app to do with a BBS? Do you imagine a mobile app that allows users to read & post messages, upload & download files, etc? Or would it be something more basic like a telnet app? Mobile telnet apps do exist. And if you make a mobile app for reading & posting messages & accessing the files, etc., then you'd still probably want it to have some way to allow users to play the door games.
    Switching into a text mode would be good, at least, and RIP support
    would be interesting too.

    As for this ^^^ maybe a good mobile app QWK reader would be the best way to go if you're just wanting to give your users access to your message bases and echoes while on the go.

    But I have yet to find a mobile app that can deliver the proper BBS experience for 2 reason:

    1 - they can't display ANSI to save their code.

    2 - About the only way to use a mobile app is with an external keyboard as the on-screen keyboards take up way to much of the screen realestate.

    As for bringing in new users, I'd suggest making some fliers and business cards that you can take around to your local computer stores and see if they will let you either post a flyer somewhere or leave a small stack of the cards or fliers.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/09/29 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Legends of Yesteryear (furmenservices.net:23322) (21:4/102)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Geri Atricks on Thu Nov 10 10:25:42 2022
    been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature of the BBS we run, and that's why we run them.

    ^^^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE ^^^^^

    I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.

    Basically, I like the lack of graphics and variety of things that make it hard to share memes or have posts go viral, but don't get why that means we have to stick to 16 colors, 80x25, 7-bit ASCII.

    Though, on that note, I think Synchroterm has been making progress on those things, and I know Magiterm supports greather than 16 colors, even if I'm not quite sure how to draw anything with more colors.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Adept on Thu Nov 10 09:07:29 2022
    Re: Re: Getting new users
    By: Adept to Geri Atricks on Thu Nov 10 2022 10:25 am

    been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the
    text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature
    of the BBS we run, and that's why we run them.

    I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.

    For a long time, people have made ANSI art bigger than that. Sometimes it's 80 columns but much longer than 25 rows, which makes it easy to view (scrolling) on a regular terminal. Sometimes I've seen them wider though, and perhaps there are ANSI viewers that let you scroll sideways and up and down to see large artwork..

    Basically, I like the lack of graphics and variety of things that make it hard to share memes or have posts go viral, but don't get why that means we have to stick to 16 colors, 80x25, 7-bit ASCII.

    Though, on that note, I think Synchroterm has been making progress on those things, and I know Magiterm supports greather than 16 colors, even if I'm not quite sure how to draw anything with more colors.

    In the 90s, when BBSing was still very popular, there were actually some graphical BBS standards that were emerging. One that was fairly common was RIP (Remote Imaging Protocol) - I think it was similar to EGA graphics, with 16 colors and supporting basic graphics and buttons, etc.. There was another I saw that was more proprietary, supported by a BBS package called RoboBoard, that I think supported more colors and higher resolutions, which provided a somewhat AOL-like online experience. RIP gained some common support with some BBS packages and door games, but it didn't last very long because the internet soon became very widespread and popular, and BBSes were largely abandoned, so support for things like RIP didn't progress very far.

    For more graphical support, I think RIP would be the logical way to go since it's an existing standard for BBSes. I think I had heard SyncTerm has recently added RIP support.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Adept on Fri Nov 11 08:32:00 2022
    Hello Adept!

    ** On Thursday 10.11.22 - 10:25, Adept wrote to Geri Atricks:

    Basically, I like the lack of graphics and variety of
    things that make it hard to share memes or have posts go
    viral, but don't get why that means we have to stick to 16
    colors, 80x25, 7-bit ASCII.

    Nothing stopping people from sharing ANSI-based memes. Small
    ones could probably fit in a standard viewing window.

    But just like ascii-based memes, they coould just be a fad and
    die out.

    //

    /rr
    *\))_



    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)
  • From Geri Atricks@21:4/102 to Adept on Thu Nov 10 04:55:10 2022
    I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like
    having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even
    have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.

    I don't think it would be ANSI any longer at that point.


    Basically, I like the lack of graphics and variety of things that make
    it hard to share memes or have posts go viral, but don't get why that means we have to stick to 16 colors, 80x25, 7-bit ASCII.

    Though, on that note, I think Synchroterm has been making progress on those things, and I know Magiterm supports greather than 16 colors, even if I'm not quite sure how to draw anything with more colors.

    The next step up from ANSI is RIP Graphics, which is closer to CGA, maybe even EGA level graphics with more colors, and even sound.

    Granted you can incorporate sound into ANSI as well (ANSI Music), but there are not very many people in the scene that use it, and I don't think all the
    ANSI BBS terminals even support it. I haven't even seen or heard any new ANSI Music in a VERY long time.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/09/29 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Legends of Yesteryear (furmenservices.net:23322) (21:4/102)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Geri Atricks on Sun Dec 4 15:07:14 2022
    I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.

    I don't think it would be ANSI any longer at that point.

    I somewhat agree here, but there are a lot of cool terminal-based games for DOS and linux which don't adhere strictly to the 16 color palette nor the cp437 character set which would be /awesome/ to feature as doors on a BBS. So I too have been advocating for full unicode support for this reason :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Geri Atricks on Mon Dec 5 10:04:05 2022
    I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.

    I don't think it would be ANSI any longer at that point.

    Do you just mean that technically? Because, yeah, without the involvement of the American National Standards Institute, or whatever it is, it's _definitely_ not ANSI.

    But my inclination is that it'd be "ANSI-style graphics", and that the BBSs out there that have the 132 or 160 column or whatever displays still look like a traditional BBS, just with greater resolution.

    And unicode just means additional characters to work with.

    So, yeah, not technically ANSI, but it doesn't seem like it'd change the old-school flavor of things, as other versions of things might.

    Not sure how blasphemous the average BBS user thinks that is, though -- I know I'm on the non-purist side of many of these things, so I'm certainly biased.

    The next step up from ANSI is RIP Graphics, which is closer to CGA,
    maybe even EGA level graphics with more colors, and even sound.

    Yeah, and an entirely different style of drawing.

    Though, thinking of that, I wonder if anyone has thoughts on any RIP graphics editors. I'm not sure what exists out there, at this point, and I'm wondering if any of them make the process easy-ish.

    think all the ANSI BBS terminals even support it. I haven't even seen or heard any new ANSI Music in a VERY long time.

    It does seem like it's about as well-supported as ANSI-style graphics with more than 80 columns.

    But it seems like it's another toy in the toy box that's worth playing with.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)