• ProxMox, NAS & backups - oh my.

    From paulie420@21:2/150 to All on Mon Jul 4 18:34:01 2022
    Some of you know that I recently moved 2o bbS over to the ProxMox server - and that has been wonderful. Its running great, got all the little bugs ironed out [mostly!] and am enjoying both the .qcow format that the VM is saved in, and PVE [ProxMox] backups that run easily and are easy to handle.

    I also have a NAS, still running on a Raspberry Pi, that will shortly find ITS way over to the ProxMox host... when I created the NAS I was struggling a bit with understanding permissions and... does openmediavault need a USER account to give permissions to the bbS box to read/write to the NFS share, and... just exactly grasping how it w0rks. Got it setup - but wonder if I could have tighter settings, or do better with fully understanding how those permissions work...

    Today I find ProxMox Backup Server. It looks GREAT, and it can do automated things much better than simply using the backups tab in PVE... so I'm excited to use it as a solution to do all backups for my various PVE VMs. However, PBS [ProxMox Backup Server] prefers you to have a physical drive for those backups... since its running ON the PVE, thats not super easy to do - while I could give one of my server drives to it, I don't really want to make that change... I don't think. It will accept NAS/NFS mounts as a DataShare, but I'm again running into permissions issues. PBS won't let me mount the thing - even after I created a SEPARATE NFS share and made sure it had read/write perms... I know I'm just not understanding things...

    Just venting, not asking for explanations - I would accept any 'newbie' websites that people might suggest; but I get the best information directly from the services above's documentation. It certainly could be easier, but I hope in the end I can create a setup that is secure and ISN'T just set to wide open... the controls within all of these systems is great; you just have to be a knowledgable sysOp. :P Thats the hard bit.

    Having fun in techno-land... still learning how to string em' all together.



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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From 2twisty@21:3/166 to paulie420 on Tue Jul 5 10:07:08 2022
    PVE VMs. However, PBS [ProxMox Backup Server] prefers you to have a physical drive for those backups... since its running ON the PVE, thats

    Maybe I'm misreading your post... But it sounds like you are trying to put your backup storage in the same physical box as the VMs you want to back up.

    That's a really bad idea. If you have a hardware failure, you could lose both the VMs *and* the backups in one fell swoop.

    I strongly recommend that you keep your backup target on separate hardware -- leave it on the Pi if your backups don't need much bandwidth on the network. Build a separate box if needed.

    I am not familiar with OpenMediaVault's NFS config parameters, so I can't give specific advice there. I use TrueNAS to host the storage of my VMs over NFS. I then use ZFS replication to perform the backups. This is one thing I plan to change in the future, but it's working well for now.

    I am also not familiar with the way Proxmox does its connections. So this could be a misconfig on either end. Are you using NFS 3 or NFS 4? NFS 4 allows for more security, but in my little private homelab, I run NFS 3 for simplicity.

    Sorry that I don't have more constructive advice. I just wanted to jump in and advise to NOT put your backups on the same hardware as the stuff you are backing up.

    Hope this helps (some),

    Chad

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Ratrace Losers (21:3/166)
  • From claw@21:1/210 to paulie420 on Tue Jul 5 18:18:25 2022
    On 04 Jul 2022, paulie420 said the following...

    Some of you know that I recently moved 2o bbS over to the ProxMox server
    - and that has been wonderful. Its running great, got all the little
    bugs ironed out [mostly!] and am enjoying both the .qcow format that the VM is saved in, and PVE [ProxMox] backups that run easily and are easy
    to handle.

    I also have a NAS, still running on a Raspberry Pi, that will shortly
    find ITS way over to the ProxMox host... when I created the NAS I was struggling a bit with understanding permissions and... does
    openmediavault need a USER account to give permissions to the bbS box to read/write to the NFS share, and... just exactly grasping how it w0rks. Got it setup - but wonder if I could have tighter settings, or do better with fully understanding how those permissions work...

    Today I find ProxMox Backup Server. It looks GREAT, and it can do automated things much better than simply using the backups tab in PVE... so I'm excited to use it as a solution to do all backups for my various PVE VMs. However, PBS [ProxMox Backup Server] prefers you to have a physical drive for those backups... since its running ON the PVE, thats not super easy to do - while I could give one of my server drives to it,
    I don't really want to make that change... I don't think. It will accept NAS/NFS mounts as a DataShare, but I'm again running into permissions issues. PBS won't let me mount the thing - even after I created a
    SEPARATE NFS share and made sure it had read/write perms... I know I'm just not understanding things...

    Just venting, not asking for explanations - I would accept any 'newbie' websites that people might suggest; but I get the best information directly from the services above's documentation. It certainly could be easier, but I hope in the end I can create a setup that is secure and ISN'T just set to wide open... the controls within all of these systems
    is great; you just have to be a knowledgable sysOp. :P Thats the hard
    bit.

    Having fun in techno-land... still learning how to string em' all together.

    pAULIE42o

    Well I've not used proxmox before but I do know on ESXi (VMWare) it likes iSCSI. Basically this will act as an attach SCSI drive but can be across the network. the one real downside it only one server should ever use it at a time. Not to be confused with VMs. So the drive would be dedicated to the server thats using it. Keep in mind as many VMs can access this through that server as you like. I have hear of people being successful with using it with more that one device typically with PXE booting but then some of them might be in read only mode. Not worth the risk though. iSCSI will require a whole nother computer to host it a PI might do it but I have not worked with it on a PI. My experience was with Ubuntu server. There is a bit of a learning curve but iSCSI is fast and works with most things. Hopefully a proxmox guru can step in and verify it this would be a good route.

    As always if I can be of any assistance let me know.

    |23|04Dr|16|12Claw
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    |10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to 2twisty on Tue Jul 5 19:43:52 2022
    PVE VMs. However, PBS [ProxMox Backup Server] prefers you to have a physical drive for those backups... since its running ON the PVE, tha

    Maybe I'm misreading your post... But it sounds like you are trying to put your backup storage in the same physical box as the VMs you want to back up.

    That's a really bad idea. If you have a hardware failure, you could
    lose both the VMs *and* the backups in one fell swoop.

    So I was going to mount an external NFS to /mnt/somewhere and backup that way, but have since learned that its not suggested or supported by ProxMox Backup Server... I now know.

    I [like to] use Raspberry Pi's for simple server stuff, and theres no Proxmox Backup Server for ARM, so... I'm thinking about how I want to tackle backups.

    Currently I'm just using PVEs Backups tab to backup ProxMox VMs, and thinking about setting up a Raspberry Pi w/ NFS drives attached to go in and pull out those PVE backups.... I Guess I should plan on using some x86 machine to run PBS and get it running a bit better - but me thinking I'm the king Linux sysOp and all, I think I can do it myself.

    I understand some of the benefits of using PBS and hopefully will get there one day... thanks for the response, as I wasn't aware that I was attempting to set it up backwards. :P Appreciated.



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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to claw on Tue Jul 5 19:47:02 2022
    Well I've not used proxmox before but I do know on ESXi (VMWare) it likes iSCSI. Basically this will act as an attach SCSI drive but can be
    across the network. the one real downside it only one server should
    ever use it at a time. Not to be confused with VMs. So the drive would be dedicated to the server thats using it. Keep in mind as many VMs can access this through that server as you like. I have hear of people
    being successful with using it with more that one device typically with PXE booting but then some of them might be in read only mode. Not worth the risk though. iSCSI will require a whole nother computer to host it
    a PI might do it but I have not worked with it on a PI. My experience
    was with Ubuntu server. There is a bit of a learning curve but iSCSI is fast and works with most things. Hopefully a proxmox guru can step in
    and verify it this would be a good route.

    As always if I can be of any assistance let me know.

    Thanks for your info - my issue is that... I have an x86 server and wanted to use it to RUN the backup server; since have learned reasons why this isn't a great idea... but I don't have several x86 machines sitting around - well, I guess I do if I used ThinkPads; but I don't really wanna go down that half-assed road... I have a plethora of Raspberry Pi's, but PBS [ProxMox Backup Server] has no ARM arm... :P So at the moment, I'm just building a basic Debian Raspberry Pi instance to go in and suck out the PVE [ProxMox] backups and pull those out to an external drive connected to said RPi.

    It isn't perfect, but hopefully will tide me over until I can dedicate another x86 machine to host PBS.

    Its fun being a shoestring sysOp. w00t w00t.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From claw@21:1/210 to paulie420 on Wed Jul 6 08:01:11 2022
    On 05 Jul 2022, paulie420 said the following...
    Raspberry Pi's, but PBS [ProxMox Backup Server] has no ARM arm... :P So at the moment, I'm just building a basic Debian Raspberry Pi instance to go in and suck out the PVE [ProxMox] backups and pull those out to an external drive connected to said RPi.
    pAULIE42o

    It doesn't matter if proxmox has an arm edition. If you setup iSCSI and connect it to that system it will look like its just another connected drive to the system. A little Googleing showed me that its very doable. On your pie you set up the drive you want as an iSCSI and then on the proxmox system your connect the iSCSI drive. The system will treat it like any other connected drive after that. You can format partition so on and so forth. Literally like it any other connected drive.

    Its not easy at first but its worth it. I backed up my whole Server this way when I needed to transition it to new hardware. I also have used it for VM storage.

    |23|04Dr|16|12Claw
    |16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
    |10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
    |20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)
  • From 2twisty@21:3/166 to claw on Wed Jul 6 12:22:05 2022
    Well I've not used proxmox before but I do know on ESXi (VMWare) it likes iSCSI. Basically this will act as an attach SCSI drive but can be

    I use NFS for my storage instead of iSCSI, since TrueNAS's NFS performance is a smidge better than its iSCSI performance. I have used both. The advantage to NFS is that your .vmdk files are not locked up in a VMFS volume, and are just regular files on the NFS, making backups and transplants a bit simpler.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Ratrace Losers (21:3/166)
  • From 2twisty@21:3/166 to paulie420 on Wed Jul 6 12:27:58 2022
    why this isn't a great idea... but I don't have several x86 machines sitting around - well, I guess I do if I used ThinkPads; but I don't

    Just about any old beater PC from the thrift store should give you what you need.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Ratrace Losers (21:3/166)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to claw on Wed Jul 6 17:58:35 2022
    It doesn't matter if proxmox has an arm edition. If you setup iSCSI and connect it to that system it will look like its just another connected drive to the system. A little Googleing showed me that its very doable. On your pie you set up the drive you want as an iSCSI and then on the proxmox system your connect the iSCSI drive. The system will treat it like any other connected drive after that. You can format partition so
    on and so forth. Literally like it any other connected drive.

    Its not easy at first but its worth it. I backed up my whole Server
    this way when I needed to transition it to new hardware. I also have
    used it for VM storage.

    Oh I understand what yer suggesting to do - instead of simply using my NAS/NFS drives [which, btw, PBS says CAN be done - but they don't support it...] I could setup some Pi w/ iSCSI and use that to mount to the PBS VM that live within PVE.... ok.

    I'll look into that, as currently I was just gonna setup a Pi to pull the PVE backups to. I haven't nuked the PBS VM yet, so - will do some reading. Thanks for the suggestion.



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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to 2twisty on Wed Jul 6 17:59:55 2022
    Just about any old beater PC from the thrift store should give you what you need.

    You know, I didn't think about that - I do have an old mid-tower thats only 6-7 years old... I'm sure it'd be enough - but I think I stipped the old HDD out of it since the gal didn't want her data to float around...

    Hmmmm - maybe that would be a decent solution.



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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From claw@21:1/210 to paulie420 on Thu Jul 7 07:56:14 2022
    On 06 Jul 2022, paulie420 said the following...
    Oh I understand what yer suggesting to do - instead of simply using my NAS/NFS drives [which, btw, PBS says CAN be done - but they don't
    support it...] I could setup some Pi w/ iSCSI and use that to mount to
    the PBS VM that live within PVE.... ok.

    I'll look into that, as currently I was just gonna setup a Pi to pull
    the PVE backups to. I haven't nuked the PBS VM yet, so - will do some reading. Thanks for the suggestion.



    pAULIE42o

    Close. Instead of mounting it with the VM mount it on the host machine. This way its available to all VMs and you should be able to just use the back up to sent it there just like it was a physically connected drive. But I get it if your already set on NFS. Then you have your solution. I've not used TrueNAS on a PI but hay if you get it going I would be interested in checking that out. TrueNAS is cool.

    |23|04Dr|16|12Claw
    |16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
    |10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
    |20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to paulie420 on Wed Jul 6 08:58:00 2022
    paulie420 wrote to 2twisty <=-

    Currently I'm just using PVEs Backups tab to backup ProxMox VMs

    Ditto here. I have a Synology that's mounted via NFS to Proxmox and use the built-in backup utility. I'm going to set up cloud sync with Synology to get
    a backup offsite, and figure some bare-metal backup for Proxmox, probably
    just a cpio job to the Synology.

    Another cheap and dirty option with Proxmox VE would be to run NFS or Samba from a router - I used a Netgear router with DD-WRT to mount a drive and use it as a backup target.
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Win32
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to paulie420 on Fri Jul 8 11:41:27 2022
    Hi Paulie420,

    Oh I understand what yer suggesting to do - instead of simply using my NAS/NFS drives [which, btw, PBS says CAN be done - but they don't
    support it...] I could setup some Pi w/ iSCSI and use that to mount to
    the PBS VM that live within PVE.... ok.

    I'll look into that, as currently I was just gonna setup a Pi to pull
    the PVE backups to. I haven't nuked the PBS VM yet, so - will do some reading. Thanks for the suggestion.

    The proxmox backup your using from it's web interface uses what's called
    vzdump to make a backup. It can be scripted to do so much more.

    I have one of mine doing a remote nfs backup a couple of times a day.
    Along with a local dump to a spare drive in the server at different times.
    The crontab event just runs different scripts at different times.


    crontab:
    0 4 * * * root /root/scripts/lnx.sh
    0 8 * * * root /root/scripts/lnx.sh


    fstab on proxmox server:

    # remote system with nfs share
    192.168.1.254:/var/nfsroot/syd /mnt/syd nfs rw,async,hard,intr,noexec 0 0

    The the nfs backup script:

    #/bin/bash
    #
    # copy a new nfs vzdump config
    cp /root/scripts/vzdump.syd /etc/vzdump.conf
    mount /mnt/syd
    vzdump 100
    vzdump 101
    vzdump 104
    umount /mnt/syd


    vzdump.conf:

    tmpdir: /bck/tmp
    dumpdir: /mnt/syd
    mode: snapshot
    keep-last: 20
    remove: 1
    compress: gzip
    mailto: fred@domain.com







    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen


    --- Talisman v0.42-dev (Linux/m68k)
    * Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From 2twisty@21:3/166 to claw on Fri Jul 8 10:57:15 2022
    I've not used TrueNAS on a PI but hay if you get it going I would be interested in checking that out. TrueNAS is cool.

    Sadly, TrueNAS is x86 only at this time -- If they do make an ARM compile, I doubt it will run well (if at all) on a Pi because of the lower spec hardware.

    TrueNAS's main function is to support ZFS, and to do that well requires direct access to hard drive controllers and lots of RAM, neither of which a Pi has.

    Jeff Geerling will probably try it with a Compute Module 4 if TrueNAS ever comes out in an ARM version, but many have already tried to set up ZFS on a Pi with very slow (and sometimes unreliable) results.

    If you are just looking for NAS functions (NFS, iSCSI, SMB, etc) then OpenMediaVault is a good choice on a Pi..

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Ratrace Losers (21:3/166)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to vorlon on Fri Jul 8 13:18:04 2022
    The proxmox backup your using from it's web interface uses what's called vzdump to make a backup. It can be scripted to do so much more.

    I have one of mine doing a remote nfs backup a couple of times a day. Along with a local dump to a spare drive in the server at different
    times. The crontab event just runs different scripts at different times.

    Ahhh, thanks for reminding my about the fact that all PVE tools have CLI commands to do all the things most ppl use the web interface for - I was going to use a RPi backup server machine to do the backups, but yea - I could just tell PVE to send them over... awesome.

    Maybe using PVE .vma.gz backups will be enough for me - I don't know that I *need* an entire PBS system.

    crontab:
    0 4 * * * root /root/scripts/lnx.sh
    0 8 * * * root /root/scripts/lnx.sh


    fstab on proxmox server:

    # remote system with nfs share
    192.168.1.254:/var/nfsroot/syd /mnt/syd nfs rw,async,hard,intr,noexec 0 0

    The the nfs backup script:

    #/bin/bash
    #
    # copy a new nfs vzdump config
    cp /root/scripts/vzdump.syd /etc/vzdump.conf
    mount /mnt/syd
    vzdump 100
    vzdump 101
    vzdump 104
    umount /mnt/syd

    vzdump.conf:

    tmpdir: /bck/tmp
    dumpdir: /mnt/syd
    mode: snapshot
    keep-last: 20
    remove: 1
    compress: gzip
    mailto: fred@domain.com


    Ok - now this is just overkill!!! Thanks a ton for all the data here, I'll be sure to extract this message and use it to help setup my solution. GREAT STUFF - thanks, vorlon!



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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to 2twisty on Sat Jul 9 11:33:25 2022
    Hi 2twisty,

    TrueNAS's main function is to support ZFS, and to do that well
    requires direct access to hard drive controllers and lots of RAM,
    neither of which a Pi has.

    The Pie4 8G would help in the ram side, but the slow disk access via USB
    would be a reall killer to performance.

    That's one thing that would make a pi so much better, is if they had two
    sata ports.


    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen


    --- Talisman v0.42-dev (Linux/m68k)
    * Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to paulie420 on Sat Jul 9 11:47:21 2022
    Hi paulie420,

    Ahhh, thanks for reminding my about the fact that all PVE tools have
    CLI commands to do all the things most ppl use the web interface for -
    I was going to use a RPi backup server machine to do the backups, but
    yea - I could just tell PVE to send them over... awesome.

    Maybe using PVE .vma.gz backups will be enough for me - I don't know
    that I *need* an entire PBS system.

    When I started with proxmox, the PBS system didn't exist, so had to get
    down and dirty with some scripting.

    Unless you have more complex requirements, a vma.gz backup is rather
    powerfull. No extra work, and when I've done restore testing, it's just
    worked.

    Ok - now this is just overkill!!! Thanks a ton for all the data here,
    I'll be sure to extract this message and use it to help setup my
    solution. GREAT STUFF - thanks, vorlon!

    NP, what I posted was a cut down version of what I'ge got running on my
    proxmox server (Btw: It's 1000Km away, and so is the remote part of this).

    I figured you didn't need info for seting up the nfs part from previous messages.



    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen


    --- Talisman v0.42-dev (Linux/m68k)
    * Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From 2twisty@21:3/166 to vorlon on Mon Jul 11 09:06:26 2022
    That's one thing that would make a pi so much better, is if they had two sata ports.

    If you are using the Compute Module, you can get backplanes that have SATA or even a 1x PCIe slot that you could put a sata HBA in. Jeff Geerling has done that, but even then, I think ZFS is WAAAAAY too big a system for a Pi's compute power.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Ratrace Losers (21:3/166)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to 2twisty on Tue Jul 12 10:36:24 2022
    Hi 2twisty,

    That's one thing that would make a pi so much better, is if they
    had two sata ports.

    If you are using the Compute Module, you can get backplanes that have
    SATA or even a 1x PCIe slot that you could put a sata HBA in. Jeff
    Geerling has done that, but even then, I think ZFS is WAAAAAY too big
    a system for a Pi's compute power.

    That wont stop someone from trying though.! For example I have setup
    Talisman on linux for M68K even though apam didn't take that into account
    when coding the bbs. He was open to making things work though.



    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen


    --- Talisman v0.42-dev (Linux/m68k)
    * Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From niter3@21:1/199 to paulie420 on Mon Dec 5 09:43:20 2022
    So I was going to mount an external NFS to /mnt/somewhere and backup
    that way, but have since learned that its not suggested or supported by ProxMox Backup Server... I now know.

    I'm still in the Vmware world, been looking at proxmox as a replacement. Just haven't really done it yet.

    I just purchased a Synology 920+ a couple months back and moved my VM backups to the Synology Backup software.

    I used to do my backups with Veam.

    None of this suggests anything, but possibly purchasing a NAS and setting up NFS that way would be a better option? You'll get more then a backup server but a full NAS.

    ... One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://bbs.clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to niter3 on Mon Dec 5 16:51:59 2022
    I'm still in the Vmware world, been looking at proxmox as a replacement. Just haven't really done it yet.

    I just purchased a Synology 920+ a couple months back and moved my VM backups to the Synology Backup software.

    How does that work? So you run VMware on top of whatever machine/system you're using at the house, and then just load the virtual hard drives from your NAS?

    None of this suggests anything, but possibly purchasing a NAS and
    setting up NFS that way would be a better option? You'll get more then a backup server but a full NAS.

    Well I do have a large NAS, a ProxMox server (with all the production VMs inside that need to be backed up..), and several other systems around the house... Home Assistant, an iMac, etc etc... my PBS backup server backs all of those up; including the NAS.

    However, I do want to get a better NAS setup. While I'll probably build my own, Synology machines really look nice.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
    |08.........

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From niter3@21:1/199 to paulie420 on Mon Dec 5 21:54:28 2022
    How does that work? So you run VMware on top of whatever machine/system you're using at the house, and then just load the virtual hard drives
    from your NAS?

    It has it's own backup tool called "Active Backup for Business". It's pretty damn easy to setup. You just add a the vmware hypervisor type in your credentials, and magic. It sees your VM's. You give it a schedule and a location to backup to.

    Well I do have a large NAS, a ProxMox server (with all the production VMs inside that need to be backed up..), and several other systems around the house... Home Assistant, an iMac, etc etc... my PBS backup server backs all of those up; including the NAS.

    I'm not familiar with PBS. I just backup everything to my Synology. VM's as I mentioned, plus I setup the Synology so I can do mac backups using Time Machine.

    You can always build a NAS. Some like TrueNas... I have bigger headache to fry, so I decided to purchase one and just spend my time setting things up vs maintaining another server... Plus these use very little wattage.

    ... Great minds think alike; small minds run together

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://bbs.clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)
  • From opicron@21:3/126 to paulie420 on Tue Dec 6 14:59:58 2022
    However, I do want to get a better NAS setup. While I'll probably build my Synology machines really look nice.

    I have a DS1621xs+ and it roxx, it runs all my dockers. About 20 dockers, including World of Warcraft server. No hickups, 24/7 service. The thing with Synology is it just works. But dont get any low end products.

    Was thinking of building my own NAS, but to be honest, I do not have time for another hobby project, or time to debug potential issues. That why I chose this way.

    I got two wildcard domains with LetsCert set up, and all dockers and board can be reached with the proper subdomains, with SSL.

    Synology gets a lot of hate from consumer market as they have vendor lock in hard drives, memory etc etc. But from a more business perspective they guarantee it works with those components.

    Overpriced? Yes, definately-- for me it was between time and productivity. And productivity won.

    oP!

    ... Some people have no idea what they're doing, and are really good at it!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: TheForze - bbs.theforze.eu:23 (21:3/126)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to niter3 on Tue Dec 6 07:02:00 2022
    niter3 wrote to paulie420 <=-

    I'm still in the Vmware world, been looking at proxmox as a
    replacement. Just haven't really done it yet.

    I just purchased a Synology 920+ a couple months back and moved my VM backups to the Synology Backup software.

    I'm doing the same thing here - have a DS1010+ and an old laptop running Proxmox for my workloads. With 24 GB of RAM and 4 cores, it handles the BBS,
    a couple of LXC containers (which Proxmox supports directly) and an Ubuntu guest running Docker containers.

    There's an NFS mount on the Synology and I use the built-in backup in
    Proxmox to back up VMs to it. I haven't played with their backup server yet.

    If the original poster doesn't have a NAS yet, there are ways to get backups off of the Proxmox server - lots of routers support external storage and can make SMB file shares. I'm pretty sure Proxmox can back up to those.


    ... All of my certifications are self-signed.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to paulie420 on Tue Dec 6 07:06:00 2022
    paulie420 wrote to niter3 <=-

    However, I do want to get a better NAS setup. While I'll probably build
    my own, Synology machines really look nice.

    Synology NAS seem like a good fit if that's all you're running - it's got
    mail servers, collaboration servers, DNS servers, VPN servers, even support for running docker containers - all of which I'd rather spin a VM or
    container on Proxmox to support.

    The hardware is nice looking, though.




    ... All of my certifications are self-signed.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From niter3@21:1/199 to opicron on Tue Dec 6 12:01:23 2022
    I have a DS1621xs+ and it roxx, it runs all my dockers. About 20 dockers,

    How do you think this compares to the 920+. This is what I have.

    ... Classic: A book which people praise but don't read. - Mark Twain

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://bbs.clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)
  • From niter3@21:1/199 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 6 12:04:02 2022
    Synology NAS seem like a good fit if that's all you're running - it's
    got mail servers, collaboration servers, DNS servers, VPN servers, even support for running docker containers - all of which I'd rather spin a
    VM or container on Proxmox to support.

    I have the 920+ with 8gb of memory. I found their vm solution was just to slow.

    However, I run a lot of their services still.

    I have a dedicated Lenovo ST50 64gb of memory. This is what I use for VM's.

    ... Redundant book title: DOS For Dummies

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://bbs.clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to niter3 on Tue Dec 6 09:29:59 2022
    It has it's own backup tool called "Active Backup for Business". It's pretty damn easy to setup. You just add a the vmware hypervisor type in your credentials, and magic. It sees your VM's. You give it a schedule
    and a location to backup to.

    Derp, I understand... I thought you were saying you ran the VMs from yer NAS. I totally get it now.

    I'm not familiar with PBS. I just backup everything to my Synology. VM's as I mentioned, plus I setup the Synology so I can do mac backups using Time Machine.

    PBS is like 2nd backup level - it only backs up... ultimately I want to run it off-site.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
    |08.........

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to opicron on Tue Dec 6 09:38:15 2022
    I have a DS1621xs+ and it roxx, it runs all my dockers. About 20 dockers, including World of Warcraft server. No hickups, 24/7 service. The thing with Synology is it just works. But dont get any low end products.

    I got two wildcard domains with LetsCert set up, and all dockers and
    board can be reached with the proper subdomains, with SSL.

    Synology gets a lot of hate from consumer market as they have vendor
    lock in hard drives, memory etc etc. But from a more business
    perspective they guarantee it works with those components.

    Yea, that machine looks awesome - odd that it only comes w/ 8GB of RAM, which is plenty for a NAS, but you got 20 containers running... did you upgrade that? I see the max is 32GB.

    Overpriced? Yes, definately-- for me it was between time and
    productivity. And productivity won.

    I don't necessarily think so, altho their pricing is a little odd;
    empty - $1599

    96TB - $3279 Seagate IronWolf Pro
    84TB - $3579 Seagate IronWolf Pro
    72TB - $3219 Seagate IronWolf Pro

    I'd definately jump for the big boy. :P Super nice machine man... I can drool over yours.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
    |08.........

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From niter3@21:1/199 to paulie420 on Tue Dec 6 13:16:16 2022
    Derp, I understand... I thought you were saying you ran the VMs from yer NAS. I totally get it now.

    Well you could by setting up an iSCSI target. It's doable, I just don't.

    PBS is like 2nd backup level - it only backs up... ultimately I want to run it off-site.

    I used one of the few cloud backups with Synology. It's yet another service you run on it to offload whatever you want to the cloud. You can use their services or things such as idrive.

    ... Just another prisoner of gravity!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://bbs.clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)
  • From opicron@21:3/126 to niter3 on Tue Dec 6 22:06:56 2022
    I have a DS1621xs+ and it roxx, it runs all my dockers. About 20 dock
    How do you think this compares to the 920+. This is what I have.

    I think the 920+ can have max 8gb memory. And I think the difference between the CPUs ( Intel Xeon D-1527 / Intel Celeron J4125 ) is quite big.

    But the 920+ will still rock on :P

    oP!

    ... If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: TheForze - bbs.theforze.eu:23 (21:3/126)
  • From opicron@21:3/126 to paulie420 on Tue Dec 6 22:09:49 2022
    Yea, that machine looks awesome - odd that it only comes w/ 8GB of RAM, wh is plenty for a NAS, but you got 20 containers running... did you upgrade I see the max is 32GB.

    Yes I upgraded to 32GB.

    Overpriced? Yes, definately-- for me it was between time and productivity. And productivity won.

    I don't necessarily think so, altho their pricing is a little odd;
    empty - $1599

    The hard drives took a bit chunk out of me indeed, and ssd swap sticks :P

    oP!

    ... If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: TheForze - bbs.theforze.eu:23 (21:3/126)
  • From opicron@21:3/126 to niter3 on Tue Dec 6 22:18:22 2022
    I have a DS1621xs+ and it roxx, it runs all my dockers. About 20 dock
    How do you think this compares to the 920+. This is what I have.

    Yours is better for Plex though with hardware transcoding. I had to disable transcoding because CPU usage flew to 100% :P.

    oP!

    ... If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: TheForze - bbs.theforze.eu:23 (21:3/126)
  • From Bucko@21:4/131 to paulie420 on Tue Dec 6 19:22:16 2022

    On 05 Dec 2022, paulie420 said the following...

    I'm still in the Vmware world, been looking at proxmox as a replaceme Just haven't really done it yet.

    I just purchased a Synology 920+ a couple months back and moved my VM backups to the Synology Backup software.

    How does that work? So you run VMware on top of whatever machine/system you're using at the house, and then just load the virtual hard drives
    from your NAS?


    I have the same setup, I use Active backup for Business on my Synology to back up the system inside the VM, so it backs up like it is a real computer. Works pretty well.. Only issue right now is ABfB does not work well with Linux machines, thus my Linux setups are using Veeam Free Agent to back up.. Works very well especially when you find issues, I just recently had a Linux Crash on my Mystic board, I was able to get the BBS running again from a backup the previous night in so I only lost about 6 hours of posts..

    ... The dog ate my .REP packet

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (21:4/131)
  • From Bucko@21:4/131 to paulie420 on Tue Dec 6 19:26:21 2022
    On 05 Dec 2022, paulie420 said the following...


    However, I do want to get a better NAS setup. While I'll probably build
    my own, Synology machines really look nice.



    pAULIE42o
    .........

    Paulie, if you are interested in Synology, google Xpenology it is basically a Synology NAS on a real computer. I have a real Synology which handles my in house stuff, but I took an old computer I had, put 32 gigs of Ram in it with 4TB of HD in it, I installed Proxmox on it, then installed a Xpenology VM on it, I use that one to back up my BBS' and as a File Server as it stores my File Libraries. Every other day, the Xpenology backs up the HD's to the real Synology so I have a backup of that.. My BBS' are on a seperate VLan from my in house set up so it works real well for me as my BBS' can not access my in house LAN but my in house LAN can access my BBS Lan..

    ... The only place I want data loss is on my credit card!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (21:4/131)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to niter3 on Wed Dec 7 06:34:00 2022
    niter3 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Synology NAS seem like a good fit if that's all you're running - it's
    got mail servers, collaboration servers, DNS servers, VPN servers, even support for running docker containers - all of which I'd rather spin a
    VM or container on Proxmox to support.

    I have the 920+ with 8gb of memory. I found their vm solution was just
    to slow.

    Mine's an old DS1010+, it's only got 2 or 4 gigs of RAM. The price was
    right, though - I got it at a tech thrift shop for $100!


    ... How did you find this place?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Bucko on Thu Dec 8 09:03:04 2022
    Paulie, if you are interested in Synology, google Xpenology it is basically a Synology NAS on a real computer. I have a real Synology
    which handles my in house stuff, but I took an old computer I had, put
    32 gigs of Ram in it with 4TB of HD in it, I installed Proxmox on it,
    then installed a Xpenology VM on it, I use that one to back up my BBS'
    and as a File Server as it stores my File Libraries. Every other day,
    the Xpenology backs up the HD's to the real Synology so I have a backup
    of that.. My BBS' are on a seperate VLan from my in house set up so it works real well for me as my BBS' can not access my in house LAN but my
    in house LAN can access my BBS Lan..

    Ahhhh; now this sounds right up my alley. I currently use OpenMediaVault, and its great... but was thinking of using TrueNAS/FreeNAS for the next build - but will sniff Xpenology; it sounds like it might be a contender.

    Thanks.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
    |08.........

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Bucko@21:4/131 to paulie420 on Thu Dec 8 21:51:27 2022
    On 08 Dec 2022, paulie420 said the following...


    Ahhhh; now this sounds right up my alley. I currently use
    OpenMediaVault, and its great... but was thinking of using
    TrueNAS/FreeNAS for the next build - but will sniff Xpenology; it sounds like it might be a contender.

    It runs real well, Active Backup for Business you have to massage it by judicious googling to get it activated but the rest runs real nice.. I own a real Synology and I have an Xpenology running. Only issue with it is updating, you can't do it online it has to be done by downloading the file then installing it over the existing version.. Lets be honest though, if it runs you forget it is even there until you get an email from it saying a drive is full or something like that.. I totally forgot my real one was backing up to an external drive until I got an email saying my external drive was full and backups could not continue..

    ... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (21:4/131)