• Pi Zero W as access point, how to?

    From Wolfgang Mahringer@3:770/3 to All on Mon Aug 16 17:38:08 2021
    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current Buster),
    it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.
    There are several tutorials on the net, but they seem to not work
    somehow on the current OS.
    I also want to be able to turn the AP off while it is instructed to do
    some stuff, and on again when it is done.

    Any pointers that really work?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang

    --
    From-address is spam trap
    Use: wolfgang (dot) mahringer (at) sbg (dot) at
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Mon Aug 16 17:15:51 2021
    On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 17:38:08 +0200
    Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> wrote:

    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current Buster),
    it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.

    You don't need it to be an access point in order to do that as long
    as the clients and Pi are on the same network or at least not firewalled
    apart. Some access points isolate their clients so that they can't reach
    each other but this can usually be turned off.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
    The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
    You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Dennis Lee Bieber@3:770/3 to All on Mon Aug 16 12:25:21 2021
    On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 17:38:08 +0200, Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> declaimed the following:

    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current Buster),
    it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.

    To where?

    If you just mean to SSH/SFTP from that laptop TO the R-PI, you don't need an access point (typically "access point" implies 1) that the AP
    provides IP addresses via DHCP, 2) acts as a gateway to the Internet (via a CAT-5/6 cable connection).

    I connect to a Pi-Star (Amateur Radio "hotspot" based on R-Pi) using SSH over WiFi all the time. It is NOT an AP (the only time it comes up as
    an access point is when it cannot connect to a network router -- and then
    it is only an AP to let one configure the router access; after a reboot is
    a normal LAN client, accessed like any other node on the LAN).


    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Mon Aug 16 21:32:28 2021
    On 16/08/2021 17:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 17:38:08 +0200
    Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> wrote:

    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current Buster),
    it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.

    You don't need it to be an access point in order to do that as long
    as the clients and Pi are on the same network or at least not firewalled apart. Some access points isolate their clients so that they can't reach
    each other but this can usually be turned off.

    +1. Mi Pi Z-W and my laptop connect to the same nasty old netgear router configured as a WAP and I can ssh in to the pi from the lappy...

    --
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

    ― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
    M. de Voltaire
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Mon Aug 16 21:30:32 2021
    On 16/08/2021 16:38, Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:
    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current Buster),
    it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.
    There are several tutorials on the net, but they seem to not work
    somehow on the current OS.
    I also want to be able to turn the AP off while it is instructed to do
    some stuff, and on again when it is done.

    Any pointers that really work?

    Surely any box that can see the Pi Zero can also see the wifi point it
    is connecting to?

    Which makes what you *appear* to want, quaint at best, and at worst
    pointless?

    The OS should not make a difference, but the hardware might.

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang



    --
    “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
    fill the world with fools.”

    Herbert Spencer
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Axel Berger@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Mon Aug 16 23:12:24 2021
    "A. Dumas" wrote:
    all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there is no
    router and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    I'm one of them. What is the difference? I presume it's fixed addresses
    instead of DHCP, but what else? That can't be all, can it?

    Danke
    Axel


    --
    /\ No | Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 221/ 7771 8067
    \ / HTML | Roald-Amundsen-Strae 2a Fax: +49/ 221/ 7771 8069
    X in | D-50829 Kln-Ossendorf http://berger-odenthal.de
    / \ Mail | -- No unannounced, large, binary attachments, please! --
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Mon Aug 16 20:42:42 2021
    Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> wrote:
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.

    Apparently all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there is no router and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    Sorry, I don't have a solution for you because I never tried to use a Pi as
    an AP.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Axel Berger on Mon Aug 16 21:43:35 2021
    Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> wrote:
    "A. Dumas" wrote:
    all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there is no
    router and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    I'm one of them. What is the difference? I presume it's fixed addresses instead of DHCP, but what else? That can't be all, can it?

    Somewhere where there is no router. Idk, maybe the back of the garden?
    There doesn't have to be a follow up network connection from the Zero, it
    can be the endpoint. Perhaps it is just there to collect data from a few wireless devices.

    Wtf, people.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From alister@3:770/3 to Axel Berger on Mon Aug 16 22:20:37 2021
    On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 23:12:24 +0200, Axel Berger wrote:

    "A. Dumas" wrote:
    all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there is no router
    and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    I'm one of them. What is the difference? I presume it's fixed addresses instead of DHCP, but what else? That can't be all, can it?

    Danke
    Axel

    1st result from a google search "raspberry pi as wifi access point" https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-wireless-access-point/



    --
    Just don't create a file called -rf. :-)
    -- Larry Wall in <11393@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Tue Aug 17 02:57:10 2021
    On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 20:42:42 -0000 (UTC)
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:

    Apparently all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there is
    no router and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    Sure we can, but the OP already said it was working as a client so there's an AP around.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
    The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
    You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Tue Aug 17 04:41:08 2021
    On 16/08/2021 22:43, A. Dumas wrote:
    Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> wrote:
    "A. Dumas" wrote:
    all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there is no
    router and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    I'm one of them. What is the difference? I presume it's fixed addresses
    instead of DHCP, but what else? That can't be all, can it?

    Somewhere where there is no router. Idk, maybe the back of the garden?
    There doesn't have to be a follow up network connection from the Zero, it
    can be the endpoint. Perhaps it is just there to collect data from a few wireless devices.

    Wtf, people.

    IF THERE IS NO ROUTER, WHAT IS THE PI CONNECTING TO?
    Or is it absolutely standalone ?

    --
    The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
    its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

    Anon.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Tue Aug 17 04:41:33 2021
    On 17/08/2021 02:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 20:42:42 -0000 (UTC)
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:

    Apparently all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there is
    no router and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    Sure we can, but the OP already said it was working as a client so there's an AP around.

    Precisely

    --
    The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
    its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

    Anon.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Tue Aug 17 07:05:58 2021
    Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
    On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 20:42:42 -0000 (UTC)
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:

    Apparently all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there is
    no router and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    Sure we can, but the OP already said it was working as a client so there's an AP around.

    You all assumed he was too dumb too realise that he didn't need another AP
    if he already had a router; I assumed he wasn't and that the situation
    would be different.

    But whatever, none of us came up with a helpful response yet to make the AP mode work. Router or not, it's an interesting problem by itself especially since, reportedly, it seems to have stopped working with the old howtos.
    Maybe it's another achievement of systemd.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From zeneca@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 17 09:17:05 2021
    Le 16/08/2021 à 17:38, Wolfgang Mahringer a écrit :
    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current Buster),
    it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.
    There are several tutorials on the net, but they seem to not work
    somehow on the current OS.
    I also want to be able to turn the AP off while it is instructed to do
    some stuff, and on again when it is done.

    Any pointers that really work?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang

    I did a access point on a Raspberry B+
    Using dnsmasq 'simpler'? dns and dhcpd and hostapd. Very simple procedure.
    I suppose it the same for any raspberry.
    You can of cause install bind9 for your dns and isc-dhcdp for dhcp
    Regard
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Tue Aug 17 06:58:48 2021
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    IF THERE IS NO ROUTER, WHAT IS THE PI CONNECTING TO?
    Or is it absolutely standalone ?

    That was the only way it made sense to me, yes.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Wolfgang Mahringer@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 17 10:05:30 2021
    Hi folks,

    Thanks for the answers. Many of you seem to not know that the Pi Zero W
    has no ethernet ports, so that is no option here.

    I am absolutely aware what the differences of a Wifi client and an AP are.
    The Imager only has the option of setting up a Wifi to have the Pi login
    to a router. And that works nicely, just to verify the hardware works.

    But my Pi zero should work standalone, only sometimes (hours between)
    somebody will connect to the Pi, so the client and the Pi are a private network. There is /no/ router involved.
    To be able to install packets or update the Pi's OS, I plan to use
    network bridging (Pi uses the connected laptop to share its internet connection).

    Of course I can use the serial port to get access to the Pi, but that
    requires opening of the case and also poses the risk of ESD.

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang

    --
    From-address is spam trap
    Use: wolfgang (dot) mahringer (at) sbg (dot) at
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Wolfgang Mahringer@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 17 10:08:12 2021
    Hi alister,

    Am 17.08.2021 um 00:20 schrieb alister:
    1st result from a google search "raspberry pi as wifi access point" https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-wireless-access-point/

    I googled around a lot, but missed that one somehow.
    I'll give it a try and report.

    Thanks a lot,
    Wolfgang


    --
    From-address is spam trap
    Use: wolfgang (dot) mahringer (at) sbg (dot) at
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Tue Aug 17 10:31:32 2021
    Wolfgang Mahringer wrote on 17-08-2021 at 10:05:
    To be able to install packets or update the Pi's OS, I plan to use
    network bridging (Pi uses the connected laptop to share its internet connection).

    There are also things like this, worked well on a Zero for me when
    needed: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/three-port-usb-hub-with-ethernet-and-microb-connector
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Tue Aug 17 10:51:01 2021
    On 17/08/2021 08:05, A. Dumas wrote:
    But whatever, none of us came up with a helpful response yet to make the AP mode work. Router or not, it's an interesting problem by itself especially since, reportedly, it seems to have stopped working with the old howtos. Maybe it's another achievement of systemd.

    There are many steps one of which may have been omitted like port forwarding

    --
    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
    always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

    Margaret Thatcher
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Tue Aug 17 10:44:57 2021
    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 10:05:30 +0200
    Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> wrote:

    Hi folks,

    Thanks for the answers. Many of you seem to not know that the Pi Zero W
    has no ethernet ports, so that is no option here.

    OK so just to be clear the aim is to have a stand alone Pi Zero W reachable over WiFi for incoming ssh and ftp connections with nothing else reachable over that WiFi link. Further this arrangement is out of reach of
    any AP and there are multiple clients for the Pi so the Pi needs to be an
    AP.

    For that purpose the guide that Alister pointed you at should do
    fine, hostapd and dnsmasq are the primary ingredients. You can just ignore
    the bits about routing out via the ethernet (from enabling IP forwarding onwards) because you're not doing that.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
    The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
    You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Wolfgang Mahringer@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 17 12:30:12 2021
    Hi,

    Am 17.08.2021 um 11:44 schrieb Ahem A Rivet's Shot:
    OK so just to be clear the aim is to have a stand alone Pi Zero W reachable over WiFi for incoming ssh and ftp connections with nothing else reachable over that WiFi link. Further this arrangement is out of reach of any AP and there are multiple clients for the Pi so the Pi needs to be an
    AP.

    That's exactly what I want to do, correct!

    For that purpose the guide that Alister pointed you at should do
    fine, hostapd and dnsmasq are the primary ingredients. You can just ignore the bits about routing out via the ethernet (from enabling IP forwarding onwards) because you're not doing that.

    Does not work unfortunately (see other post). Have moitted steps 6 to 8.
    The new Wifi network does not even appear, and the Pi is still logging
    into my router. Yes, I have rebooted, and there are no errors visible.
    dmesg also shows nothing obvious.

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang

    --
    From-address is spam trap
    Use: wolfgang (dot) mahringer (at) sbg (dot) at
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Wolfgang Mahringer@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 17 12:20:18 2021
    Hi folks,

    Am 17.08.2021 um 00:20 schrieb alister:
    1st result from a google search "raspberry pi as wifi access point" https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-wireless-access-point/

    This tutorial does not work either (like several others I have tried).
    It is about creating an AP on the Pi, which is in turn connected to the internet via ethernet. That's exactly what I /don't/ want to achieve.

    I've done everything but steps 6, 7 and 8, since they are about IP
    forwarding and brisging.

    More ideas anyone?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang

    --
    From-address is spam trap
    Use: wolfgang (dot) mahringer (at) sbg (dot) at
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Tue Aug 17 12:13:00 2021
    On 17/08/2021 11:20, Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:
    Hi folks,

    Am 17.08.2021 um 00:20 schrieb alister:
    1st result from a google search "raspberry pi as wifi access point"
    https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-wireless-access-point/

    This tutorial does not work either (like several others I have tried).
    It is about creating an AP on the Pi, which is in turn connected to the internet via ethernet. That's exactly what I /don't/ want to achieve.

    I've done everything but steps 6, 7 and 8, since they are about IP
    forwarding and brisging.

    More ideas anyone?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang

    Can your clients 'see' at least the ssid?
    what does iwconfig say?


    --
    “when things get difficult you just have to lie”

    ― Jean Claud Jüncker
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Tue Aug 17 12:14:13 2021
    On 17/08/2021 11:47, Andy Burns wrote:
    Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:

    Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

        OK so just to be clear the aim is to have a stand alone Pi Zero W >>> reachable over WiFi for incoming ssh and ftp connections with nothing
    else
    reachable over that WiFi link. Further this arrangement is out of
    reach of
    any AP and there are multiple clients for the Pi so the Pi needs to
    be an
    AP.

    That's exactly what I want to do, correct!

    can a Pi do ad-hoc wifi?

    No reason why not.

    --
    “when things get difficult you just have to lie”

    ― Jean Claud Jüncker
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Tue Aug 17 11:48:29 2021
    Andy Burns wrote:

    can a Pi do ad-hoc wifi?

    https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=249561
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Tue Aug 17 12:13:47 2021
    On 17/08/2021 11:30, Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:
    and the Pi is still logging into my router.

    I would start with why that is happening


    --
    “when things get difficult you just have to lie”

    ― Jean Claud Jüncker
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Tue Aug 17 11:47:11 2021
    Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:

    Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

        OK so just to be clear the aim is to have a stand alone Pi Zero W
    reachable over WiFi for incoming ssh and ftp connections with nothing
    else
    reachable over that WiFi link. Further this arrangement is out of
    reach of
    any AP and there are multiple clients for the Pi so the Pi needs to be an
    AP.

    That's exactly what I want to do, correct!

    can a Pi do ad-hoc wifi?
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Tue Aug 17 12:10:16 2021
    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 12:30:12 +0200
    Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> wrote:

    Does not work unfortunately (see other post). Have moitted steps 6 to 8.
    The new Wifi network does not even appear, and the Pi is still logging
    into my router.

    That's a problem - you need to disable the client configuration.
    You can't be an AP and connect to an AP on the same radio, once you get the client configuration out of play the host configuration should work.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
    The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
    You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From peter@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Tue Aug 17 12:46:56 2021
    On 17/08/2021 11:30, Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:
    Hi,

    Am 17.08.2021 um 11:44 schrieb Ahem A Rivet's Shot:
        OK so just to be clear the aim is to have a stand alone Pi Zero W
    reachable over WiFi for incoming ssh and ftp connections with nothing
    else
    reachable over that WiFi link. Further this arrangement is out of
    reach of
    any AP and there are multiple clients for the Pi so the Pi needs to be an
    AP.

    That's exactly what I want to do, correct!

        For that purpose the guide that Alister pointed you at should do
    fine, hostapd and dnsmasq are the primary ingredients. You can just
    ignore
    the bits about routing out via the ethernet (from enabling IP forwarding
    onwards) because you're not doing that.

    Does not work unfortunately (see other post). Have moitted steps 6 to 8.
    The new Wifi network does not even appear, and the Pi is still logging
    into my router. Yes, I have rebooted, and there are no errors visible.
    dmesg also shows nothing obvious.

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang


    Sounds like you still have the wlan bound as a wpa_supplicant

    in /etc/dhcpd.conf you should have

    interface wlan0
    static ip_address=192.168.1.1/24
    nohook wpa_supplicant


    take a look at https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/computers/configuration.html#set-up-the-network-router

    which shows how to set up a router and what to leave out if you do not
    need access to the ethernet network

    Peter
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Dennis Lee Bieber@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 17 10:56:33 2021
    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 10:05:30 +0200, Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> declaimed the following:

    But my Pi zero should work standalone, only sometimes (hours between) >somebody will connect to the Pi, so the client and the Pi are a private >network. There is /no/ router involved.

    How many "random" clients do you expect? If you just mean one or two known laptops, it might be better to see if the laptop can be made the
    access point, and configure the wpa_supplicant file with connection
    credentials for each potential client. Though I'll have to admit I don't
    know if the R-Pi will periodically poll looking for an access point
    (Pi-Star systems don't -- if one moves out of range of an access point, one needs to reboot to get it to search for another).


    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Dennis Lee Bieber@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 17 10:52:12 2021
    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 07:05:58 -0000 (UTC), A. Dumas
    <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> declaimed the following:


    But whatever, none of us came up with a helpful response yet to make the AP >mode work. Router or not, it's an interesting problem by itself especially >since, reportedly, it seems to have stopped working with the old howtos. >Maybe it's another achievement of systemd.

    Pi-Star systems (minimal RaspOS, with a load of Amateur Radio stuff on board) are designed to open an AP IF they fail to connect to a normal
    router. The only purpose of the AP is to allow one to SSH/HTTP in to the
    device and configure the credentials needed by a local router.

    Once it connects to a regular router, the AP is effectively disabled.


    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From alister@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Tue Aug 17 17:59:18 2021
    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 12:20:18 +0200, Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:

    Hi folks,

    Am 17.08.2021 um 00:20 schrieb alister:
    1st result from a google search "raspberry pi as wifi access point"
    https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-wireless-access-
    point/

    This tutorial does not work either (like several others I have tried).
    It is about creating an AP on the Pi, which is in turn connected to the internet via ethernet. That's exactly what I /don't/ want to achieve.

    I've done everything but steps 6, 7 and 8, since they are about IP
    forwarding and brisging.

    More ideas anyone?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang

    surely simply not connecting the ethernet would cure the routing to the internet problem?



    --
    Good night, Austin, Texas, wherever you are!
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to alister on Tue Aug 17 19:00:30 2021
    alister wrote:

    surely simply not connecting the ethernet would cure the routing to the internet problem?

    On a Pi zeroW, what ethernet?
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to alister on Tue Aug 17 20:28:55 2021
    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 17:59:18 -0000 (UTC)
    alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    surely simply not connecting the ethernet would cure the routing to the internet problem?

    Yep, especially since there isn't one to connect anyway.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
    The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
    You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed Aug 18 07:16:20 2021
    On 17/08/2021 20:28, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 17:59:18 -0000 (UTC)
    alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    surely simply not connecting the ethernet would cure the routing to the
    internet problem?

    Yep, especially since there isn't one to connect anyway.

    Nor does a Pi-Zero have an ethernet port...

    --
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
    gospel of envy.

    Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

    Winston Churchill
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Wolfgang Mahringer@3:770/3 to All on Wed Aug 18 11:59:00 2021
    Am 17.08.2021 um 16:52 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
    Pi-Star systems (minimal RaspOS, with a load of Amateur Radio stuff on board) are designed to open an AP IF they fail to connect to a normal
    router. The only purpose of the AP is to allow one to SSH/HTTP in to the device and configure the credentials needed by a local router.

    Once it connects to a regular router, the AP is effectively disabled.

    That sounds great.
    Which one of the images offered on
    http://www.pistar.uk/downloads/
    would you suggest for Pi Zero W 1.1?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang

    --
    From-address is spam trap
    Use: wolfgang (dot) mahringer (at) sbg (dot) at
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Wolfgang Mahringer@3:770/3 to All on Wed Aug 18 16:49:59 2021
    Hi folks,

    I finally got it to work. This time I used this tutorial: https://www.elektronik-kompendium.de/sites/raspberry-pi/2002171.htm
    (German)
    These were the pitfalls I think I fell into:
    - WPA-PSK passphrase was too short (yeah I know)
    - "nohook wpa_supplicant" in /etc/dhcpcd.conf was missing
    - "RUN_DAEMON=yes" in /etc/default/hostapd was missing

    Best parts were the checks:
    $ ip l
    to check if wlan0 is working properly
    $ dnsmasq --test -C /etc/dnsmasq.conf
    to check if DHCP server config is OK
    $ sudo hostapd -dd /etc/hostapd/hostapd.conf
    to check if hostapd is properly configured

    All is well now, case closed.
    Thanks for all your help, guys.
    Wolfgang


    Am 16.08.2021 um 17:38 schrieb Wolfgang Mahringer:
    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current Buster),
    it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.
    There are several tutorials on the net, but they seem to not work
    somehow on the current OS.
    I also want to be able to turn the AP off while it is instructed to do
    some stuff, and on again when it is done.

    Any pointers that really work?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang



    --
    From-address is spam trap
    Use: wolfgang (dot) mahringer (at) sbg (dot) at
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Dennis Lee Bieber@3:770/3 to All on Wed Aug 18 12:24:11 2021
    On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:59:00 +0200, Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> declaimed the following:

    Am 17.08.2021 um 16:52 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
    Pi-Star systems (minimal RaspOS, with a load of Amateur Radio stuff on >> board) are designed to open an AP IF they fail to connect to a normal
    router. The only purpose of the AP is to allow one to SSH/HTTP in to the
    device and configure the credentials needed by a local router.

    Once it connects to a regular router, the AP is effectively disabled.

    That sounds great.
    Which one of the images offered on
    http://www.pistar.uk/downloads/
    would you suggest for Pi Zero W 1.1?

    I don't think you'd actually want to use one of those images. As mentioned, they are quite heavily loaded with Amateur Radio stuff -- and on boot attempt to start up communications with a piggy-backed radio board,
    run a web server for configuration/status display, and set up the file
    system as READ-ONLY (log files go into a RAM disk -- the whole idea being
    to reduce SD card wear).

    root 28249 1.5 0.7 51748 7456 ? S<sl 03:31 8:22 /usr/local/bin/ircddbgatewayd -daemon
    root 28406 1.8 4.0 51024 40700 ? S<sl 03:31 9:34 /usr/local/bin/MMDVMHost /etc/mmdvmhost
    root 28416 0.0 0.6 12824 6500 ? S 03:31 0:05 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/sbin/pistar-watchdog

    It also runs a nightly update of the call-sign and radio server databases, among other things.

    The best you could do with the image is mount it on some desktop Linux and browse the file system looking for differences in start-up processes vs regular RaspOS.


    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tauno Voipio@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Wed Aug 18 19:59:19 2021
    On 18.8.21 17.49, Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:
    Hi folks,

    I finally got it to work. This time I used this tutorial: https://www.elektronik-kompendium.de/sites/raspberry-pi/2002171.htm
    (German)
    These were the pitfalls I think I fell into:
    - WPA-PSK passphrase was too short (yeah I know)
    - "nohook wpa_supplicant" in /etc/dhcpcd.conf was missing
    - "RUN_DAEMON=yes" in /etc/default/hostapd was missing

    Best parts were the checks:
    $ ip l
    to check if wlan0 is working properly
    $ dnsmasq --test -C /etc/dnsmasq.conf
    to check if DHCP server config is OK
    $ sudo hostapd -dd /etc/hostapd/hostapd.conf
    to check if hostapd is properly configured

    All is well now, case closed.
    Thanks for all your help, guys.
    Wolfgang


    Am 16.08.2021 um 17:38 schrieb Wolfgang Mahringer:
    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current
    Buster), it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.
    There are several tutorials on the net, but they seem to not work
    somehow on the current OS.
    I also want to be able to turn the AP off while it is instructed to do
    some stuff, and on again when it is done.

    Any pointers that really work?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang




    Just a side note: If you have SSH working to the Pi, you should
    not need FTP. Please use SFTP instead.

    --

    -TV
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From alister@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed Aug 18 18:45:03 2021
    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:28:55 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 17:59:18 -0000 (UTC) alister
    <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    surely simply not connecting the ethernet would cure the routing to the
    internet problem?

    Yep, especially since there isn't one to connect anyway.

    I know but the article was a generic conf for all pies & the op
    complained he did not want the routing to the internet feature

    I am almost tempted to try setting this up myself now




    --
    Never face facts; if you do you'll never get up in the morning.
    -- Marlo Thomas
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Martin Gregorie@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Aug 18 20:19:44 2021
    On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 21:04:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Why? The wifi link already encodes traffic. The pi is off grid.

    Agreed. The benefit of using SSH transfers is having no more software to install because bog-standard sshd acts as a client to ssh, scp, sftp and
    (if you happen to have it installed), gftp


    --
    --
    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Tauno Voipio on Wed Aug 18 21:04:03 2021
    On 18/08/2021 17:59, Tauno Voipio wrote:
    On 18.8.21 17.49, Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:
    Hi folks,

    I finally got it to work. This time I used this tutorial:
    https://www.elektronik-kompendium.de/sites/raspberry-pi/2002171.htm
    (German)
    These were the pitfalls I think I fell into:
    - WPA-PSK passphrase was too short (yeah I know)
    - "nohook wpa_supplicant" in /etc/dhcpcd.conf was missing
    - "RUN_DAEMON=yes" in /etc/default/hostapd was missing

    Best parts were the checks:
    $ ip l
    to check if wlan0 is working properly
    $ dnsmasq --test -C /etc/dnsmasq.conf
    to check if DHCP server config is OK
    $ sudo hostapd -dd /etc/hostapd/hostapd.conf
    to check if hostapd is properly configured

    All is well now, case closed.
    Thanks for all your help, guys.
    Wolfgang


    Am 16.08.2021 um 17:38 schrieb Wolfgang Mahringer:
    Hi folks,

    I am just playing around with a Pi Zero W (Pi OS lite, current
    Buster), it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.
    There are several tutorials on the net, but they seem to not work
    somehow on the current OS.
    I also want to be able to turn the AP off while it is instructed to
    do some stuff, and on again when it is done.

    Any pointers that really work?

    Cheers,
    Wolfgang




    Just a side note: If you have SSH working to the Pi, you should
    not need FTP. Please use SFTP instead.

    Why? The wifi link already encodes traffic. The pi is off grid.


    --
    How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

    Adolf Hitler
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Martin Gregorie on Thu Aug 19 08:49:02 2021
    On 18/08/2021 21:19, Martin Gregorie wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 21:04:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Why? The wifi link already encodes traffic. The pi is off grid.

    Agreed. The benefit of using SSH transfers is having no more software to install because bog-standard sshd acts as a client to ssh, scp, sftp and
    (if you happen to have it installed), gftp


    Indeed, but ftp is in some ways nicer and IIRC windows clients are more common...

    --
    "What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
    "I don't."
    "Don't what?"
    "Think about Gay Marriage."
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Thu Aug 19 10:03:23 2021
    On 19/08/2021 09:22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    I meant from the users perspective

    FTP demands a two port hole in a firewall anyway, irrespective of NAT.

    It wasn't such a big deal to punch two stateful holes in a NAT box.


    --
    “when things get difficult you just have to lie”

    ― Jean Claud Jüncker
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tauno Voipio@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Thu Aug 19 12:05:42 2021
    On 19.8.21 11.22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    FTP is kind of obsolete. It belongs to the era of XDMCP and Telnet.
    FTP uses several TCP ports, and it is not happy over NAT links.
    The SSH server handles SFTP as well, without extra daemons.

    ---

    For bad NAT protocols, XDMCP is at least a runner-up, as it has
    IP addresses built into the message bodies.

    --

    -TV
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=c3=b6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to All on Thu Aug 19 11:19:31 2021
    Den 2021-08-19 kl. 11:05, skrev Tauno Voipio:
    On 19.8.21 11.22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than
    FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    FTP is kind of obsolete. It belongs to the era of XDMCP and Telnet.


    Still - it is alive in B2B.
    Yesterday I got a question if our software (at work) supports FTP as
    a way of sending/receiving transactions (xml in files)

    The customer is using SAP
    (yes they do support other means as well)


    --
    Björn
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Aug 19 09:22:28 2021
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh? I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than FTP,
    since NAT came along at least.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Aug 19 12:30:46 2021
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
    On 19/08/2021 09:22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than
    FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    I meant from the users perspective

    Number of times I’ve had an SFTP transfer corrupted by line ending
    conversion 0. Number of times for FTP, too many to count. Completely
    horrible protocol from any angle.

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Dr Eberhard Lisse@3:770/3 to Wolfgang Mahringer on Thu Aug 19 13:57:29 2021
    You forgot to quote:

    On 16/08/2021 17:38, Wolfgang Mahringer wrote:
    [...]
    it works nicely as a Wifi client.
    [...]

    On the Mac I had to

    open 2020-02-13-raspbian-buster-lite.img
    touch /Volumes/boot/ssh

    in order to be able to slogin into the pi. I haven't tried to set up an
    ftp server.

    el

    On 16/08/2021 22:42, A. Dumas wrote:
    Wolfgang Mahringer <yeti201@gmx.at> wrote:
    But I want it to be a Wifi AP (WPA), so other clients (laptops,
    tablets...) can log into the Pi to SSH and FTP.

    Apparently all the other posters can't fathom a situation where there
    is no router and the other devices must connect directly to the Pi.

    Sorry, I don't have a solution for you because I never tried to use a
    Pi as an AP.


    --
    To email me replace 'nospam' with 'el'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Richard Kettlewell on Thu Aug 19 12:36:57 2021
    On 19/08/2021 12:30, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
    On 19/08/2021 09:22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than
    FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    I meant from the users perspective

    Number of times I’ve had an SFTP transfer corrupted by line ending conversion 0. Number of times for FTP, too many to count. Completely
    horrible protocol from any angle.

    it has binary mode. dont use it in any other,

    --
    Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
    foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

    (Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pancho@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Thu Aug 19 15:02:18 2021
    On 19/08/2021 09:22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    SIP/RTP

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Richard Falken@1:123/115 to Andy Burns on Thu Aug 19 07:18:17 2021
    Re: Re: Pi Zero W as access point, how to?
    By: Andy Burns to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Aug 19 2021 09:22 am

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh? I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    Lots of VOIP are harder to do over NAT than FTP is. This is why many mobile VOIP applications need TUN/STUN servers and whatnot. At the very least there are well known solutions for deploying FTP whereas setting certain VOIP services requires you to read three tonnes of additional manuals. Specially if they have some P2P or WebRTC component.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Aug 19 16:34:24 2021
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
    Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
    On 19/08/2021 09:22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than
    FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    I meant from the users perspective

    Number of times I’ve had an SFTP transfer corrupted by line ending
    conversion 0. Number of times for FTP, too many to count. Completely
    horrible protocol from any angle.

    it has binary mode. dont use it in any other,

    Sure, but historically the default was text mode, so in practice
    corruption was pretty common.

    Today I don’t use it at all.

    $ ftp whatever
    -bash: ftp: command not found

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Richard Kettlewell on Thu Aug 19 17:07:47 2021
    On 19/08/2021 16:34, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
    Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
    On 19/08/2021 09:22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than
    FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    I meant from the users perspective

    Number of times I’ve had an SFTP transfer corrupted by line ending
    conversion 0. Number of times for FTP, too many to count. Completely
    horrible protocol from any angle.

    it has binary mode. dont use it in any other,

    Sure, but historically the default was text mode, so in practice
    corruption was pretty common.

    Never happened to me. Default has been binary since forever.

    Today I don’t use it at all.

    $ ftp whatever
    -bash: ftp: command not found

    Well neither do I mostly.
    But its not that bad a protocol - I seem to recall it has a few more
    features than sftp

    And its very fast.

    --
    In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

    - George Orwell
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Pancho on Thu Aug 19 17:05:27 2021
    On 19/08/2021 15:02, Pancho wrote:
    On 19/08/2021 09:22, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ftp is in some ways nicer

    Huh?  I'm struggling to think of a protocol causes more grief than
    FTP, since NAT came along at least.

    SIP/RTP
    +1

    Theres some others too.
    UPnp

    --
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
    too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Aug 19 17:39:41 2021
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    UPnp

    That just stays (or worse, gets) disabled.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to Richard Falken on Thu Aug 19 17:27:10 2021
    Richard Falken wrote:

    Lots of VOIP are harder to do over NAT than FTP is.

    True, I have been known to reconfigure firewalls into L2 bridge mode for SIP/RTP mainly to avoid NAT.

    This is why many mobile
    VOIP applications need TUN/STUN servers and whatnot. At the very least there are well known solutions for deploying FTP whereas setting certain VOIP services requires you to read three tonnes of additional manuals. Specially if
    they have some P2P or WebRTC component.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Wolfgang Mahringer@3:770/3 to All on Sun Aug 22 11:03:36 2021
    Am 19.08.2021 um 13:57 schrieb Dr Eberhard Lisse:
    On the Mac I had to

         open 2020-02-13-raspbian-buster-lite.img
         touch /Volumes/boot/ssh

    in order to be able to slogin into the pi. I haven't tried to set up an
    ftp server.

    Yes, but the current imagers for Raspian do already sport a feature (use Ctrl-Alt-X to see it) to have SSH activated right away, so no need to
    create that ssh file.

    Wolfgang


    --
    From-address is spam trap
    Use: wolfgang (dot) mahringer (at) sbg (dot) at
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)