Does anybody know this two packages practically? They seem to be very
expensive but very useful also. I think about buying CrowPi2 for
creating a mobile hard- and software-solution for "universal control" -
from temperature to movement until radioactivity and subsonic.

FW

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On Mon, 03 May 2021 10:50:41 +0200, F. W. wrote:

Does anybody know this two packages practically? They seem to be very expensive but very useful also. I think about buying CrowPi2 for
creating a mobile hard- and software-solution for "universal control" -
from temperature to movement until radioactivity and subsonic.

"Universal learning" looks more like it. My instant reaction is that it
is probably OK for learning basic electronics and programming, but:

- if you want to build some sort of self-designed a gadget you'd be
better off buying a bare RPi, Pico or even (gasp!) a PICAXE chip
because they will be easier to build into your project than stealing
bits from a CrowPi2 would be.

- if you're more interested in programming than assembling hardware, pick
up a decent Lenovo laptop from eBay and install a Linux distro on it or
go for a Pi400 and add a storage drive, mouse and screen.

Both suggestions should be cheaper than the CrowPi, especially the first option, even if you need to get a used laptop for use as your
workstation.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
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Dana Mon, 3 May 2021 11:06:57 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> napis'o:

On Mon, 03 May 2021 10:50:41 +0200, F. W. wrote:

Does anybody know this two packages practically? They seem to be very
expensive but very useful also. I think about buying CrowPi2 for
creating a mobile hard- and software-solution for "universal control" -
from temperature to movement until radioactivity and subsonic.

"Universal learning" looks more like it. My instant reaction is that it
is probably OK for learning basic electronics and programming, but:

- if you want to build some sort of self-designed a gadget you'd be
better off buying a bare RPi, Pico or even (gasp!) a PICAXE chip
because they will be easier to build into your project than stealing
bits from a CrowPi2 would be.

- if you're more interested in programming than assembling hardware, pick
up a decent Lenovo laptop from eBay and install a Linux distro on it or
go for a Pi400 and add a storage drive, mouse and screen.

Both suggestions should be cheaper than the CrowPi, especially the first option, even if you need to get a used laptop for use as your
workstation.

True.
A lot cheaper.
This is just a fancy box.
You can get HUGE amounts of gadgets for your bare PI. And maybe get even
a small 3D printer to print all the boxes. :P
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On Mon, 3 May 2021 16:32:17 +0200, "F. W." <me@home.com> declaimed the following:

BTW: Does anybody know the .h-Files for GPIO? Can I find it in the books >delivered with the 400?

That likely depends upon which GPIO library one is using... Probably none if using raw sysfs access. cf: https://www.ics.com/blog/gpio-programming-using-sysfs-interface
{NOTE: since this is a pseudo file-system, what they are doing at the
command line can be done with standard C file I/O operations (open, write, read, close).} Sysfs may not be the fastest way (each I/O operation could trigger a task switch). It is also on the route to being replaced by a GPIO "character device" -- see: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=193096 https://github.com/rust-embedded/gpio-cdev#sysfs-gpio-vs-gpio-character-device

"pigpio" (uses a daemon program, pigpiod, to let user-mode programs talk to kernel GPIO). see: http://abyz.me.uk/rpi/pigpio/index.html (has
Python and C interfaces; uses either socket I/O or Linux pipe I/O).

So I will try to get an "external breadboard" (if possible) and connect
it to the GPIOs of my 400. Maybe this is more useful.

How does the extension pin/socket compare to a regular R-Pi (say a 3B)? If they are the same, you might like to obtain something like: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2028 https://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-kuman-Solderless-Breadboard-resistance/dp/B01LYN4J3B/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=sparkfun+pi+wedge&qid=1620054675&sr=8-6
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13717 (has debug UART pins for connecting
an FTDI 3.3V serial<>USB adapter).



--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
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On Mon, 3 May 2021 11:31:07 -0000 (UTC), Nikolaj Lazic <nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> declaimed the following:

True.
A lot cheaper.
This is just a fancy box.
You can get HUGE amounts of gadgets for your bare PI. And maybe get even
a small 3D printer to print all the boxes. :P

Does the CrowPi2 even have a box -- the web page I saw looked lik it was just a keyboard/display with a lot of assorted components on break-out boards. The first CrowPi appeared to just be an electronic experimenters
set inside an briefcase with display and spot for R-Pi.

For plain sensors on break-outs, many of the Arduino component sets are applicable (analog sensors would need an external A/D converter -- or use a Beaglebone Black instead of the R-Pi). cf: https://www.amazon.com/KEYESTUDIO-Projects-Receiver-Tracking-Ultrasonic/dp/B07K6L2VRB/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=sensor+kit&qid=1620051678&sr=8-5
https://www.amazon.com/Moonshotjr-Embedded-Learner-Board-Hands/dp/B08PNQK6V7/ref=sr_1_31?dchild=1&keywords=electronic+experiment+board&qid=1620052171&sr=8-31
https://www.amazon.com/Freenove-Raspberry-Processing-Tutorials-Components/dp/B06W54L7B5/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=electronic+experiment+breadboard&qid=1620052300&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=
ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVlFZVkZNSERCSTVPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjg4MTQxMkFBNTdDV0RUMzRENSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTQ3MTQzWEJLNEhGRkdCRDVBJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
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On Mon, 03 May 2021 16:32:17 +0200, F. W. wrote:

For both I would prefer C knowing it for several years. Python looks interesting but I feel too old for this "new stuff" ;-)

Agreed. These days I find I prefer Java as a general programming language
BUT its really only useful for handling files/databases/kbd/screen/
networking - you need C to deal with RS232. etc.

Rust might be worth a look as it seems somewhat more bullet-proof that C:
its on my list of things to look at.

BTW: Does anybody know the .h-Files for GPIO? Can I find it in the books delivered with the 400?

No idea, sorry.

So I will try to get an "external breadboard" (if possible) and connect
it to the GPIOs of my 400. Maybe this is more useful.

Yes, breadboards are good news. Also, I don't know if they're still
around, but you used to be able to find 'solderable breadboards' - single- sides PCBs about 100 x 150mm in size, predrilled and printed with rows
of standard IC soldering pads with positive and ground rails in between
them. Very useful for making one-off projects after you've debugged them
on a breadboard.

PICAXE also sell small breadboards and solderable prototyping boards for
their chips (which run a fairly unexciting BASIC thats tailored to the
PIC architectute (short, unsigned integers etc) but their BASIC compiler
runs well on a Pi 2B under an emulator.

There may now be similar small boards for Pi PICO - I haven't looked. The
PICO looks much more capable than any of the PICAXE chips, if a bit
pricier.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
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Am 03.05.2021 um 13:31 schrieb Nikolaj Lazic:

Okay, thank you both. I own already a Pi 400 and am interested in
understanding f. e. reading temperature-sensors oder driving a 7-segment-display.

For both I would prefer C knowing it for several years. Python looks interesting but I feel too old for this "new stuff" ;-)

BTW: Does anybody know the .h-Files for GPIO? Can I find it in the books delivered with the 400?

So I will try to get an "external breadboard" (if possible) and connect
it to the GPIOs of my 400. Maybe this is more useful.

Thank you again!

FW
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F. W. wrote:

Does anybody know this two packages practically? They seem to be very expensive but very useful also. I think about buying CrowPi2 for
creating a mobile hard- and software-solution for "universal control" -
from temperature to movement until radioactivity and subsonic.

I do not think the packages are very expensive - at least the price for the CrowPi2 shows here $299,-
For what they offer it is worth it - IMO only the screen + RPi4B would cost about 120-150, the rest of the hardware, microcontrollers etc + some profit
and some taxes ... you get manuals and some stuff on top + you know things
fit together.
It could be it is expensive in some countries, but then RPi4 + a screen
would be also expensive there. I rate it as reasonable for example as
present for a 12-14y/o.
FYI it seem to have cost 600+ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvDQWST8aFM)
But to be objective check the price for all the components - I bet you will
go >300,-

On the other hand as it was pointed here, if you do not need a special
design etc, it is more fun to build something yourself.

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On Mon, 3 May 2021 14:56:49 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 03 May 2021 16:32:17 +0200, F. W. wrote:

So I will try to get an "external breadboard" (if possible) and
connect it to the GPIOs of my 400. Maybe this is more useful.

Yes, breadboards are good news. Also, I don't know if they're still
around, but you used to be able to find 'solderable breadboards' -
single- sides PCBs about 100 x 150mm in size, predrilled and printed
with rows of standard IC soldering pads with positive and ground
rails in between them. Very useful for making one-off projects after
you've debugged them on a breadboard.

Yes, there are any number of these with varying pitches, some with two
pitches on the same board. I've just bought a tiny one to carry an
8-pin SSOP and plug into 0.1" DIL. SOICs can just about be used on
standard 0.1" board if you cut the tracks in half.

Roth (German) are fairly prominent in this line, though somewhat more
expensive than China via Ebay, as you would expect. Hobbytronics and
Adafruit also sell some, along with many other hobby electronics
companies.

I still have a TDec which must be fifty years old and was quite
expensive, but the 0.1" push-in breadboards now are very cheap.

--
Joe

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On 2021-05-03, F. W. <me@home.com> wrote:

Am 03.05.2021 um 13:31 schrieb Nikolaj Lazic:

Okay, thank you both. I own already a Pi 400 and am interested in understanding f. e. reading temperature-sensors oder driving a 7-segment-display.

For both I would prefer C knowing it for several years. Python looks interesting but I feel too old for this "new stuff" ;-)

BTW: Does anybody know the .h-Files for GPIO? Can I find it in the books delivered with the 400?

No, most of the common docs only deal with Python.

IF you are a competent C programmer with low level experience, then you
may be interested in source code they provide for the raspi-gpio
utility they provide ...

https://github.com/RPi-Distro/raspi-gpio/blob/master/raspi-gpio.c

I just used that to get the idea and wrote my own stuff.

If you are interfacing to "standard" type interfaces, e.g. I2C, RS232
etc, then just use standard linux kernel facilities. I've written code
for the 16 bit IOexpander chip MCP23017 that after a recompile just
works on any linux board with I2C support. And I've RS232 code that has essentially worked on Unices and Linux for over 20years (modulo
suppressing the increasing number of warnings that each successive
version of gcc seems to spit out - but that could be my code style :-)

Happy programming :-)

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F. W. <me@home.com> wrote:

Am 03.05.2021 um 13:31 schrieb Nikolaj Lazic:

Okay, thank you both. I own already a Pi 400 and am interested in understanding f. e. reading temperature-sensors oder driving a 7-segment-display.

For both I would prefer C knowing it for several years. Python looks interesting but I feel too old for this "new stuff" ;-)

BTW: Does anybody know the .h-Files for GPIO?

Look here and pick the approach that suits you best: https://elinux.org/RPi_GPIO_Code_Samples

That page is a bit old though, some of the suggested libraries
might not support the Pi 400.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
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Am 03.05.2021 um 23:16 schrieb Jim Jackson:

IF you are a competent C programmer with low level experience, then
you may be interested in source code they provide for the raspi-gpio
utility they provide ...

That's great. Thank you! I am not that experienced with RPi. But
now I can learn more simply from the source-code...

FW

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Am 04.05.2021 um 00:50 schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:

For both I would prefer C knowing it for several years. Python
looks interesting but I feel too old for this "new stuff" ;-)

BTW: Does anybody know the .h-Files for GPIO?

Look here and pick the approach that suits you best: https://elinux.org/RPi_GPIO_Code_Samples

That page is a bit old though, some of the suggested libraries might
not support the Pi 400.

Thank you! There is in fact a kind of beauty within source-code...

FW

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