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  • Raspberry 400

    From Ottavio Caruso@3:770/3 to All on Mon Nov 2 10:25:34 2020
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home

    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?

    --
    Ottavio Caruso

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Chris Elvidge@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Mon Nov 2 10:50:45 2020
    On 02/11/2020 10:25 am, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home

    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    That PCB form factor should be available raw - it's a better port layout
    than the standard RPi - all ports in one line. https://thepihut.com/blogs/raspberry-pi-roundup/raspberry-pi-400-teardown


    --

    Chris Elvidge, England

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Pancho on Mon Nov 2 12:10:35 2020
    On 02-11-2020 11:48, Pancho wrote:
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home
    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?

    Why would anyone want three leads coming out of a keyboard?

    Why not just shove the rPi behind the screen and use a standard wifi
    mouse and keyboard.

    Yeah. Although for me that mostly ends up as having the Pi somewhere on
    the desk under/in front of the monitor, soooo... Also this is an
    improved stepping of the SoC with higher frequency, 1.8 instead of 1.5
    GHz, and it adds a huge heatsink which apparently makes for no
    throttling whatsoever. See https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/raspberry-pi-400-teardown-and-review

    Downside: weird orientation for HATs on the GPIO port, and no analogue audio/video out. And no US keyboard kits with EU adapter. Tthey have no keyboard layout for my country, so the US version is the next best
    thing, but I do need an EU adapter. The standalone computer (only the
    keyboard) is not such a good deal, I think.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Mon Nov 2 10:40:27 2020
    Ottavio Caruso wrote:

    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home

    Thoughts?

    If only there was away to attach a folding screen to it ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pancho@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Mon Nov 2 10:48:37 2020
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home

    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    Why would anyone want three leads coming out of a keyboard?

    Why not just shove the rPi behind the screen and use a standard wifi
    mouse and keyboard.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Mon Nov 2 11:20:31 2020
    On 02/11/2020 10:40, Andy Burns wrote:
    Ottavio Caruso wrote:

    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home

    Thoughts?

    If only there was away to attach a folding screen to it ...
    LOL!

    --
    Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
    But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Eli the Bearded@3:770/3 to Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com on Mon Nov 2 20:28:48 2020
    In comp.sys.raspberry-pi, Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home
    Why would anyone want three leads coming out of a keyboard?

    I see nothing wrong with that design. It harks back to the home computers of the early eighties for me. Look at the back of a Vic-20, Sinclair ZX80, Apple II, etc. Bring your own screen and choose your own accessories.

    Why not just shove the rPi behind the screen and use a standard wifi
    mouse and keyboard.

    Fewer discrete parts?

    Elijah
    ------
    now if it were only equipped with a battery and battery operated screen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Adrian Caspersz@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Mon Nov 9 16:10:54 2020
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home

    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    Wireless keyboard and a normal hidden away Pi looks less messy, however
    I do get the 'home computer' aesthetic.

    --
    Adrian C

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From NY@3:770/3 to Adrian Caspersz on Wed Nov 11 10:01:09 2020
    "Adrian Caspersz" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message news:i0t80fF2hjvU1@mid.individual.net...
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home

    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    Wireless keyboard and a normal hidden away Pi looks less messy, however I
    do get the 'home computer' aesthetic.

    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full 8 GB
    RAM.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to me@privacy.invalid on Wed Nov 11 10:44:26 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:01:09 -0000
    "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    "Adrian Caspersz" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message news:i0t80fF2hjvU1@mid.individual.net...
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home >>
    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    Wireless keyboard and a normal hidden away Pi looks less messy, however
    I do get the 'home computer' aesthetic.

    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full 8
    GB RAM.

    Perhaps there's a Pi 800 coming if there appears to be demand.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
    The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
    You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From NY@3:770/3 to Chris Green on Wed Nov 11 10:52:11 2020
    "Chris Green" <cl@isbd.net> wrote in message news:oirs7h-qdk42.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu...
    NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
    "Adrian Caspersz" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message
    news:i0t80fF2hjvU1@mid.individual.net...
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home >> >>
    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    Wireless keyboard and a normal hidden away Pi looks less messy, however
    I
    do get the 'home computer' aesthetic.

    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full 8
    GB
    RAM.

    Why is 8Gb the 'full' amount.

    OK, "the highest amount available so far as a simple Pi 4 circuit board".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Chris Green@3:770/3 to me@privacy.invalid on Wed Nov 11 10:38:48 2020
    NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
    "Adrian Caspersz" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message news:i0t80fF2hjvU1@mid.individual.net...
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home >>
    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    Wireless keyboard and a normal hidden away Pi looks less messy, however I do get the 'home computer' aesthetic.

    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full 8 GB RAM.

    Why is 8Gb the 'full' amount.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Martin Gregorie@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed Nov 11 11:24:08 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:44:26 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:01:09 -0000 "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    "Adrian Caspersz" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message
    news:i0t80fF2hjvU1@mid.individual.net...
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?
    resellerType=home

    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    Wireless keyboard and a normal hidden away Pi looks less messy,
    however I do get the 'home computer' aesthetic.

    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full 8
    GB RAM.

    Perhaps there's a Pi 800 coming if there appears to be demand.

    8GB seems pretty sensible to me for a Linux box thats doing office or
    program development type tasks.

    I notice that my Intel and AMD boxes (a pair of Lenovo laptops and an AMD- based whitebox PC that I use as the house server, all running 64 bit
    Fedora Linux) that those with smaller memories (3GB and 4GB) normally
    trundle on without swapping, but do swap on occasion, while the 8GB
    system has never swapped - at least I haven't noticed it doing so.


    --
    --
    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to druck on Wed Nov 11 13:09:13 2020
    On 11-11-2020 12:23, druck wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 10:01, NY wrote:
    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full
    8 GB RAM.

    The vast majority of people will be using 32 bit Raspbian, (or Raspberry
    Pi OS as they call it now), so wont benefit from anything over 4GB. To
    make real use of that you have to load a 64 bit OS.

    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In
    Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to All on Wed Nov 11 11:23:06 2020
    On 11/11/2020 10:01, NY wrote:
    "Adrian Caspersz" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message news:i0t80fF2hjvU1@mid.individual.net...
    On 02/11/2020 10:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resellerType=home >>>
    Thoughts? I'm tempted. Anybody doing it for the team?


    Wireless keyboard and a normal hidden away Pi looks less messy,
    however I do get the 'home computer' aesthetic.

    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full 8
    GB RAM.

    The vast majority of people will be using 32 bit Raspbian, (or Raspberry
    Pi OS as they call it now), so wont benefit from anything over 4GB. To
    make real use of that you have to load a 64 bit OS.

    On my 8GB Pi 4B I'm running the 32 bit Raspbian user land, but with the
    64 bit kernel, which via raspbian-nspawn allows me to also run 64 bit applications in a container. The best of both worlds.

    ---druck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Alister@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Wed Nov 11 14:31:46 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 13:09:13 +0100, A. Dumas wrote:

    On 11-11-2020 12:23, druck wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 10:01, NY wrote:
    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full
    8 GB RAM.

    The vast majority of people will be using 32 bit Raspbian, (or
    Raspberry Pi OS as they call it now), so wont benefit from anything
    over 4GB. To make real use of that you have to load a 64 bit OS.

    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    Composing this on my Pi400 (which has been up for over 2 days & currently running cawbird playing a youtube video)

    $ free -h
    total used free shared buff/cache
    available
    Mem: 3.7Gi 802Mi 803Mi 188Mi 2.2Gi
    2.6Gi
    Swap: 99Mi 4.0Mi 95Mi

    4GB seems ample
    has anyone actually maxed out a 4gb pi or are you simply basing the need
    for 8gb on Windows experience?
    if so you are not comparing like with like.




    --
    You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Pancho on Wed Nov 11 15:48:57 2020
    Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 12:09, A. Dumas wrote:
    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In
    Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    Do you have a ref? I thought 32 bit kernel meant it could only map max 4
    GB ram in total, shared between all processes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-4-how-much-ram (look for the "Raspberry Pi 4 B 8GB: The Ultimate Pi" paragraph)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pancho@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Wed Nov 11 15:36:19 2020
    On 11/11/2020 12:09, A. Dumas wrote:
    On 11-11-2020 12:23, druck wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 10:01, NY wrote:
    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full
    8 GB RAM.

    The vast majority of people will be using 32 bit Raspbian, (or
    Raspberry Pi OS as they call it now), so wont benefit from anything
    over 4GB. To make real use of that you have to load a 64 bit OS.

    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    Do you have a ref? I thought 32 bit kernel meant it could only map max 4
    GB ram in total, shared between all processes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pancho@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Wed Nov 11 16:07:41 2020
    On 11/11/2020 15:48, A. Dumas wrote:
    Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 12:09, A. Dumas wrote:
    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In
    Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    Do you have a ref? I thought 32 bit kernel meant it could only map max 4
    GB ram in total, shared between all processes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-4-how-much-ram (look for the "Raspberry Pi 4 B 8GB: The Ultimate Pi" paragraph)


    That is interesting, thank you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Richard Kettlewell on Wed Nov 11 17:02:55 2020
    Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> writes:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension

    That’s an x86 feature. The ARM equivalent is LPAE, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#LPAE

    Yes. However, the implementation is different but the result is the same,
    and there's much more info on the PAE page.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Wed Nov 11 16:31:47 2020
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> writes:
    Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 12:09, A. Dumas wrote:
    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In
    Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    Do you have a ref? I thought 32 bit kernel meant it could only map max 4
    GB ram in total, shared between all processes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension

    That’s an x86 feature. The ARM equivalent is LPAE, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#LPAE

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Sun Nov 15 03:01:56 2020
    On 11/11/2020 12:09, A. Dumas wrote:
    On 11-11-2020 12:23, druck wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 10:01, NY wrote:
    I wonder why they chose to give the Pi 400 only 4 GB and not the full
    8 GB RAM.

    The vast majority of people will be using 32 bit Raspbian, (or
    Raspberry Pi OS as they call it now), so wont benefit from anything
    over 4GB. To make real use of that you have to load a 64 bit OS.

    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    Sorry that is true, I was just concentrating on the memory usable by
    single applications (I have a system test that uses over 6GB).

    I don't think I've managed to get Chromium processes to use up all the
    memory even on my 4GB Pi 4B yet, I obviously need to try harder!

    ---druck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to A. DUMAS on Sun Nov 15 10:06:00 2020
    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    I believe that it is more correct to say "every tab is at least one
    separate process." I had Chromium and top both open yesterday. I had one
    tab open and brought up wunderground.com. There were 8-10 chromium-browser processes that suddenly popped up and remained persistent until I closed
    the browser. If you are not familiar with that website, it is a weather site with a lot of ads (non-pop-up).


    * SLMR 2.1a * Aibohphobia, n. -- the fear of palindromes.
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to Mike Powell on Sun Nov 15 20:55:02 2020
    On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 10:06:00 +1300 nospam.Mike.Powell@f1.n770.z11101.fidonet.org (Mike Powell) wrote:

    here were 8-10 chromium-browser
    processes that suddenly popped up and remained persistent until I closed
    the browser.

    There's probably a process hanging on each open websocket.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
    The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
    You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Mike Powell on Sun Nov 15 22:26:40 2020
    Mike Powell <nospam.Mike.Powell@f1.n770.z11101.fidonet.org> wrote:
    Every process can use 4 (I think it's 3 in practice?) GiB. In
    Chrome/Chromium, every tab is a separate process. So if you regularly
    open a lot of tabs with huge content ... then 8 GiB might be beneficial
    even on 32-bit RaspiOS.

    I believe that it is more correct to say "every tab is at least one
    separate process." I had Chromium and top both open yesterday. I had one tab open and brought up wunderground.com. There were 8-10 chromium-browser processes that suddenly popped up and remained persistent until I closed
    the browser.

    Sure, it's a good multithreaded app. But I imagine there is ultimately one
    root process per tab that has to accumulate stuff from all the others and
    build the page as a monolithic data structure. I don't know.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)