• Re: voltage from measure_volts

    From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Jan Novak on Thu Sep 24 10:17:36 2020
    On 24/09/2020 09:21, Jan Novak wrote:
    Hi,
    my raspi4 is booting and running from an USB-SSD Harddrive connected
    with no additional power for the harddrrive.
    With "stress" i simulate some stress for CPU / IO and RAM. At the moment (first 6 hours), everything works as expected.

    The measure_volts shows me ~ 0,84V and CPU Temp ~ 84°C (at stresstest)m without stress ist is at 58°C.

    Is this OK for 24/7 running?

    Is what OK? 58°C is OK, 84°C is apparently marginal...


    "Officially, the Raspberry Pi Foundation recommends that the temperature
    of your Raspberry Pi device should be below 85 degrees Celsius for it to
    work properly. That’s the maximum limit. But it would start throttling
    at 82 degrees Celsius."


    My pi zero figures are 1.2V and 35.8°C
    For what its worth., Been on a few months




    --
    "First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors."
    - George Orwell

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  • From Jan Novak@3:770/3 to All on Thu Sep 24 10:21:45 2020
    Hi,
    my raspi4 is booting and running from an USB-SSD Harddrive connected
    with no additional power for the harddrrive.
    With "stress" i simulate some stress for CPU / IO and RAM. At the moment
    (first 6 hours), everything works as expected.

    The measure_volts shows me ~ 0,84V and CPU Temp ~ 84°C (at stresstest)m without stress ist is at 58°C.

    Is this OK for 24/7 running?


    Jan

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  • From druck@3:770/3 to Jan Novak on Thu Sep 24 10:33:34 2020
    On 24/09/2020 09:21, Jan Novak wrote:
    Hi, my raspi4 is booting and running from an USB-SSD Harddrive
    connected with no additional power for the harddrrive.

    I've been running that combination on the Pi 3B, 3B+ and 4B for years
    without issues.

    With "stress" i simulate some stress for CPU / IO and RAM. At the
    moment (first 6 hours), everything works as expected. The
    measure_volts shows me ~ 0,84V and CPU Temp ~ 84°C (at stresstest)m
    without stress ist is at 58°C.

    Is this OK for 24/7 running?

    During the stress test it will be thermally throttling, which shouldn't
    do any harm for short periods, but either a large passive heatsink or a
    small fan will prevent it getting that hot, and avoid the performance
    drop off.

    58C for normal running is fine 24/7.

    ---druck

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  • From paul lee@1:227/702 to Jan Novak on Thu Sep 24 17:14:24 2020
    Hi,
    my raspi4 is booting and running from an USB-SSD Harddrive connected
    with no additional power for the harddrrive.
    With "stress" i simulate some stress for CPU / IO and RAM. At the moment (first 6 hours), everything works as expected.

    The measure_volts shows me ~ 0,84V and CPU Temp ~ 84°C (at stresstest)m without stress ist is at 58°C.

    Is this OK for 24/7 running?


    Jan

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    Throttling will kick in at 82C, and 84C is a little high - but if you
    said that was just at stress, its ok for short periods. 58C is ok for
    normal operations, but that being said you can easily get it down a bit
    if you try. Are you using any cooling now? Passive will (unless you're
    already running some..) drop you a few degrees, more if its a beefy
    passive heatsink. If you use a heatsink and a small fan you could get
    down to the mid 40s. I suggest an iceCooler - I run in the mid 30s on
    normal use...

    Anyway, you are within the accepted range if thats all you wanted to
    know. :P Cheers.

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  • From Jan Novak@3:770/3 to All on Tue Sep 29 07:32:53 2020
    Am 24.09.20 um 06:14 schrieb paul lee:

    JN> my raspi4 is booting and running from an USB-SSD Harddrive connected
    JN> with no additional power for the harddrrive.
    JN> With "stress" i simulate some stress for CPU / IO and RAM. At the
    moment
    JN> (first 6 hours), everything works as expected.
    JN> The measure_volts shows me ~ 0,84V and CPU Temp ~ 84°C (at
    stresstest)m
    JN> without stress ist is at 58°C.
    JN> Is this OK for 24/7 running?

    If you use a heatsink and a small fan you could get
    down to the mid 40s. I suggest an iceCooler - I run in the mid 30s on
    normal use...
    I use now an active cooler... buit this will also use power.


    Anyway, you are within the accepted range if thats all you wanted to
    know. :P Cheers.


    Yes, this was my primary question.

    Thanks

    Jan

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  • From druck@3:770/3 to paul lee on Tue Sep 29 09:31:44 2020
    On 24/09/2020 05:14, paul lee wrote:
    If you use a heatsink and a small fan you could get
    down to the mid 40s. I suggest an iceCooler - I run in the mid 30s on
    normal use...

    Is there any real point to getting it that low? The cooler is probably
    using twice as much power as the Pi.

    One of mine Pis in shed got down to 19.7C CPU temp during the winter, it
    didn't run any better than when it was 72.8C in the summer :)

    ---druck

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to druck on Tue Sep 29 10:51:40 2020
    On 29/09/2020 09:31, druck wrote:
    On 24/09/2020 05:14, paul lee wrote:
    If you use a heatsink and a small fan you could get
    down to the mid 40s. I suggest an iceCooler - I run in the mid 30s on
    normal use...

    Is there any real point to getting it that low? The cooler is probably
    using twice as much power as the Pi.

    One of mine Pis in shed got down to 19.7C CPU temp during the winter, it didn't run any better than when it was 72.8C in the summer :)

    ---druck

    Serious answer from an ex electronics engineer.
    Semiconductors and indeed all components age. possibly the worst
    offenders are capacitors with liquids inside - the old wax paper
    condensers and modern electrolytics are two culprits that change values
    with age and may fail completely.

    This form of ageing is very much a function of heat.
    As far as semiconductors go, there are two completely different
    thermally related failure modes.

    One is failure of the hermetic seals to the chips caused by temperature *cycling*. Hot and cold cycles can also fatigue internal wires.

    The second is electromigration. Over time the actual dopant ions
    physically migrate in the junction area, leading to loss of performance
    and eventually out of spec. behaviour. Temperature accelerates this.

    Operation at junction temperatures near the limit of usually around
    150°C will destroy a transistor in minutes, not hours or years.
    I have seen cases of CPU fan failure on SPARC and INTEL CPUs that have destroyed the CPU altogether, although usually the users switch them off
    when performance becomes erratic.

    So in the limit, yes, high temperature and temperature cycling destroys
    chips. Just how much an elevated temperature of say 80°C matters, is a
    very hard thing to quantify.

    I used to run power transistors in power audio amplifiers at over 100°C
    case temperatures, they sizzled with a wet finger. I have had a Schottky
    diode accidentally shorted across a battery physically unsolder itself...without apparent damage.

    So there is a real point, but how important it is? is very hard to quantify.

    Its like SSD failure, everyone knows that writes destroy SSDs over time,
    but how fast?

    And then examination of SMART data suggest 'a lot slower than bearings
    wear out in, or oxide flakes off, a conventional drive'

    In reality I suspect your Pi will be obsolete before it dies of heat exhaustion. :-).


    --
    If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
    eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
    time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
    and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
    important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
    the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
    truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

    Joseph Goebbels

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  • From Jan Novak@3:770/3 to All on Tue Sep 29 14:07:31 2020
    Am 29.09.20 um 11:51 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
    In reality I suspect your Pi will be obsolete before it dies of heat exhaustion. :-).

    thats may be true :-)

    Jan

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  • From druck@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Tue Sep 29 17:11:56 2020
    On 29/09/2020 10:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 29/09/2020 09:31, druck wrote:
    On 24/09/2020 05:14, paul lee wrote:
    If you use a heatsink and a small fan you could get
    down to the mid 40s. I suggest an iceCooler - I run in the mid 30s on
    normal use...

    Is there any real point to getting it that low? The cooler is probably
    using twice as much power as the Pi.

    One of mine Pis in shed got down to 19.7C CPU temp during the winter,
    it didn't run any better than when it was 72.8C in the summer :)

    [Snip all eminently sensible points]

    In reality I suspect your Pi will be obsolete before it dies of heat exhaustion. :-).

    The Pi in question is my very first 256MB model B, obsolete in every
    way, but just refuses to die - British engineering at its best!

    ---druck

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