I've got a Pi 3B+ and I'm thinking of upgrading to a 4B, partly to freeAs long as you've got the latest updates, you can just move the SD Card
up the Pi 3 to do other tasks.
I've got a couple of questions?
- Can a "system disk" SD card (ie the same disk image) for 3B+ be used
for a 4B?
Is it a case of "yes, but you won't be making full use of the
4's 64-bit architecture and larger RAM"? I'm being lazy and avoiding installing and configuring everything all over again unless I have to ;-)
- I've read reports of the Pi 4 running quite hot and needing a cooling
fan, as opposed to just passive heatsinks, when used in a case.
I'd be using it for recording TV (using external USB DVB decoders) to a spinning disk (*) (not to the SD card), using TVHeadend, for SMB-sharing folders which are accessed by Windows PCs, and maybe also for running
simple software such as a browser or an email client. On my 3B, the CPU
usage is barely measurable for recording from three different sources simultaneously, while serving one of the video files to a Windows
client,
but it shoots up to nearly 100% as soon as I run Firefox or
Chromium, even when a static page has been loaded. Is it a known problem
with the Pi 3 (maybe fixed on the Pi 4) that browsers tend to hog the CPU?
On 04/09/2020 21:31, NY wrote:
I've got a Pi 3B+ and I'm thinking of upgrading to a 4B, partly toAs long as you've got the latest updates, you can just move the SD Card
free up the Pi 3 to do other tasks.
I've got a couple of questions?
- Can a "system disk" SD card (ie the same disk image) for 3B+ be used
for a 4B?
over.
Is it a case of "yes, but you won't be making full use of the 4's
64-bit architecture and larger RAM"? I'm being lazy and avoiding
installing and configuring everything all over again unless I have to ;-)
I'd still stick with the Raspbian 32 bit userland until 64 bit OS's
support everything such as GPU accelaration and GPIO libraries.
You can run the normal 32 bit userland with the 64 bit kernel, by adding
one line in config.txt You can then install raspbian-nspawn to run 64
bit applications alongside 32 bit ones.
- I've read reports of the Pi 4 running quite hot and needing a
cooling fan, as opposed to just passive heatsinks, when used in a case.
You don't need a fan, the large passive heatsink cases work well. I've
got one Pi 4B with that, and one with a fan case. The latter runs
cooler, but the former is well within spec idling at 45C and going up to
65C under load.
I'd be using it for recording TV (using external USB DVB decoders) to
a spinning disk (*) (not to the SD card), using TVHeadend, for
SMB-sharing folders which are accessed by Windows PCs, and maybe also
for running simple software such as a browser or an email client. On
my 3B, the CPU usage is barely measurable for recording from three
different sources simultaneously, while serving one of the video files
to a Windows client,
That shouldn't change.
but it shoots up to nearly 100% as soon as I run Firefox or Chromium,
even when a static page has been loaded. Is it a known problem with
the Pi 3 (maybe fixed on the Pi 4) that browsers tend to hog the CPU?
You'll see a massive difference using web browsers thanks to the extra
memory and processor speed. Browsers that use separate tasks for each
tab can make use of all that extra memory even though they are 32 bit.
---druck
- Can a "system disk" SD card (ie the same disk image) for 3B+ be used
for a 4B?
On 04/09/2020 21:31, NY wrote:
- Can a "system disk" SD card (ie the same disk image) for 3B+ be used
for a 4B?
Yes, as long as the version of Raspberry Pi OS (aka Raspbian) supports the Raspberry Pi 4. In other words it must be pretty recent.
"Brian Gregory" <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote in
message news:hrl8niFr544U1@mid.individual.net...
On 04/09/2020 21:31, NY wrote:
- Can a "system disk" SD card (ie the same disk image) for 3B+ be
used for a 4B?
Yes, as long as the version of Raspberry Pi OS (aka Raspbian) supports
the Raspberry Pi 4. In other words it must be pretty recent.
My Pi 3B+ has Raspbian Stretch which I believe is one "level" below the current Raspbian Buster.
It's not the end of the world if I have to reinstall from scratch.
Grrr. Just realised I'll need to buy either a mini-HDMI to
full-size-HDMI converter or else a longer mini-to-full HDMI cable, so
the Pi can reach the telly which I'll be using as a monitor - when I'm
not accessing the Pi's desktop remotely using VNC.
I also started making a disk image of the card every few months so I
could go straight back to a reasonably recent state without needing to reinstall.
On Mon, 07 Sep 2020 11:31:08 +0100, NY wrote:
I also started making a disk image of the card every few months so IAssuming you're making backups with dd or tar, zip etc, you might want to look into using rsync instead:
could go straight back to a reasonably recent state without needing to
reinstall.
- its faster because it does the minimum work needed to bring your last
backup up to date
- its more flexable because its copying files and directories into a
backup filing system which gives you direct access, should you need it,
to individual files on the backup volume and recovery to a differently
sized disk partition is a lot easier than doing so from a backup made
with dd.
You shouldn't need to, I upgraded my whole dozen strong collection
including every generation of Raspberry Pi, from Stretch to Buster,
and didn't loose any of them.
I'd go for a micro HDMI cable, as I don't like the idea of a full size
cable and bulky converter hanging off a small connector. Also if you
ever want to drive dual displays, there wont be room for two converters.
My Pi 3B+ has Raspbian Stretch which I believe is one "level" below the >current Raspbian Buster. I wish computer companies would go back to using >version *numbers*, instead of Ubuntu Bionic Beaver, Android Jelly Bean or >Raspbian Stretch. At least Ubuntu uses consecutive letters of the alphabet
so Bionic Beaver is one version before Cool Cat and two before Dirty Dog (or >whatever!).
You shouldn't need to, I upgraded my whole dozen strong collection
including every generation of Raspberry Pi, from Stretch to Buster, and didn't loose any of them.
When promoting a card to a later machine, I've occasionally found a
newer kernel and startX.elf isn't present, using rpi-update on the older machine before moving the card fixes that.
On 07/09/2020 14:38, druck wrote:
You shouldn't need to, I upgraded my whole dozen strong collection
including every generation of Raspberry Pi, from Stretch to Buster,
and didn't loose any of them.
When promoting a card to a later machine, I've occasionally found a
newer kernel and startX.elf isn't present, using rpi-update on the
older machine before moving the card fixes that.
I found the boot partition was too small for all the latest raspberry pi
4 stuff when I upgraded my Raspberry pi 2 to Buster.
It runs Raspberry pi 2 compatible buster fine though, just doesn't have
all the latest boot files for the raspberry pi 4, which doesn't really
matter in my case since it's just a very low traffic web server that can
stay on the Raspberry Pi 2 for now.
Actually I think it would boot on a Pi 4, it just doesn't have the
latest power optimization stuff.
On Mon, 07 Sep 2020 11:31:08 +0100, NY wrote:
I also started making a disk image of the card every few months so IAssuming you're making backups with dd or tar, zip etc, you might want to look into using rsync instead:
could go straight back to a reasonably recent state without needing to
reinstall.
- its faster because it does the minimum work needed to bring your last
backup up to date
- its more flexable because its copying files and directories into a
backup filing system which gives you direct access, should you need it,
to individual files on the backup volume and recovery to a differently
sized disk partition is a lot easier than doing so from a backup made
with dd.
On 07-09-2020 15:38, druck wrote:
I'd go for a micro HDMI cable, as I don't like the idea of a full size
cable and bulky converter hanging off a small connector. Also if you ever
want to drive dual displays, there wont be room for two converters.
The adapter that the foundation sells avoids that because it's a little cable, see e.g.
On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 11:31:08 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> declaimed the following:
My Pi 3B+ has Raspbian Stretch which I believe is one "level" below the >>current Raspbian Buster. I wish computer companies would go back to using >>version *numbers*, instead of Ubuntu Bionic Beaver, Android Jelly Bean or >>Raspbian Stretch. At least Ubuntu uses consecutive letters of the alphabet >>so Bionic Beaver is one version before Cool Cat and two before Dirty Dog >>(or
whatever!).
Raspbian/Raspberry OS is a customized release of Debian, and follows
Debian practice.
Debian does use version numbers -- they just aren't common in public discussion.
v7 Wheezy
v8 Jessie
v9 Stretch
v10 Buster
https://www.debian.org/News/2019/20190706 https://www.debian.org/releases/testing/releasenotes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_version_history
{The names are characters from Toy Story}
But no-one uses BNC any more :-(
Numbers are better, because it is blindingly obvious how they should be sorted in increasing order of release. Same as for house numbers versus
house names, when you are trying to find a specific house in a street.
But we're talking about two different things. My copy of the SD card
(made by removing the card, inserting it into a Windows computer and
running Win32 Disk Imager) is to restore a fully-working, bootable
system, as opposed to backing up specific user-created files that cannot
be restored by reinstalling OS and packages.
"A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote in message news:5f564549$0$10286$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
On 07-09-2020 15:38, druck wrote:
I'd go for a micro HDMI cable, as I don't like the idea of a full
size cable and bulky converter hanging off a small connector. Also if
you ever want to drive dual displays, there wont be room for two
converters.
The adapter that the foundation sells avoids that because it's a
little cable, see e.g.
https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/235mm-micro-hdmi-to-standard-hdmi-adapter-ca ble
Yes I much prefer a short flexible cable rather than a dual-ended plug-and-socket when it's necessary to change between mini- and
full-size HDMI or micro-USB and USB C, because it provides strain relief.
But the correct cable (eg mini HDMI plug on one end and full HDMI plug
on the other) is the best solution.
Usually mini sockets are as good as the full size version than preceded
it. The only exception is the mini aerial connector on one of my USB DVB
TV adaptor devices. Instead of having a full size Belling Lee coaxial
aerial socket (which may require the casing of the adaptor to be flared
out at one end) they chose to use a miniature socket that is only about
2 mm diameter, and to supply a Belling Lee to mini adaptor (solid, not a short length of cable). The adaptor and socket do not mate properly and
the adaptor pulls out if the aerial cable is wiggled slightly. So I've wrapped lots of tape around it to secure it to the USB device. The best plug/socket for that sort of thing is BNC: securely latches together but
only needs 1/4 turn to release it, rather than faffing with the
multi-turn screw of an F connector. But no-one uses BNC any more :-(
Numbers are better, because it is blindingly obvious how they should be >sorted in increasing order of release. Same as for house numbers versus
house names, when you are trying to find a specific house in a street.
But we're talking about two different things. My copy of the SD card
(made by removing the card, inserting it into a Windows computer and
running Win32 Disk Imager) is to restore a fully-working, bootable
system, as opposed to backing up specific user-created files that cannot
be restored by reinstalling OS and packages.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:24:19 +0100, NY wrote:
Numbers are better, because it is blindingly obvious how they should be
sorted in increasing order of release. Same as for house numbers versus
house names, when you are trying to find a specific house in a street.
Not always - apparently in Tokyo house numbers within a block are
assigned in the order that the houses were built, which is why all Tokyo taxi-drivers use GPS systems. That gem surfaced during the first GPS Millennium in 1999.
London (streets change names
every few blocks and the numbers start over each time).
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
London (streets change names
every few blocks and the numbers start over each time).
In general in the UK it's rare for house numbers to reach 4 digits.
Other favourites are San Francisco (house numbers start wherever the
street does, so on two adjacent streets that start in different places
the house numbers don't line up),
On 08-09-2020 23:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Other favourites are San Francisco (house numbers start wherever the
street does, so on two adjacent streets that start in different places
the house numbers don't line up),
Huh? *Of course* numbering starts where the street starts. I had never
heard of the alternative, I suppose it comes with grid street plans,
which are awful & car centric & dehumanising.
Well one alternative is the rural Irish approach, roads are mostlyunnamed instead small regions are named (but there are no signs to tell you the names). Houses are sometimes named but mostly not, the postman has
to know who lives where because twenty or thirty houses on two or three streets all have the same address[1]. Couriers insist on phone numbers
before accepting packages. This venerable system has recently grown
postcodes ... every delivery point has a unique postcode so you need a map
of them to find anything.
On 08-09-2020 23:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Other favourites are San Francisco (house numbers start wherever the
street does, so on two adjacent streets that start in different places
the house numbers don't line up),
Huh? *Of course* numbering starts where the street starts. I had never
heard of the alternative, I suppose it comes with grid street plans,
which are awful & car centric & dehumanising.
Ours is a new house in quite a long street, they gave us a postcode
which isn't the same as the houses around us, its from 300m further up
the road, and the houses have names and not numbers. Every delivery
bloke on the planet has driven straight past, stopped further up, and
then phoned to say they couldn't find us. Lucky the other side of the
road has sequential numbers, so we have to tell everyone we are opposite number 44.
Ours is a new house in quite a long street, they gave us a postcode
which isn't the same as the houses around us, its from 300m further up
the road, and the houses have names and not numbers. Every delivery
bloke on the planet has driven straight past, stopped further up, and
then phoned to say they couldn't find us. Lucky the other side of the
road has sequential numbers, so we have to tell everyone we are opposite number 44.
Do you need one of these?
Have you any idea why you weren't given the same postcode as the houses
on either side? Simple cockup or....
Other favourites are San Francisco (house numbers start wherever the
street does, so on two adjacent streets that start in different places
the house numbers don't line up), and London (streets change names
every few blocks and the numbers start over each time).
In message <5f586a22$0$10270$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> writes
On 08-09-2020 23:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Other favourites are San Francisco (house numbers start wherever the
street does, so on two adjacent streets that start in different places
the house numbers don't line up),
Huh? *Of course* numbering starts where the street starts. I had never >>heard of the alternative, I suppose it comes with grid street plans, which >>are awful & car centric & dehumanising.
But where does a street start ? Mine is T shaped.
On 08-09-2020 23:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Other favourites are San Francisco (house numbers start wherever the
street does, so on two adjacent streets that start in different places
the house numbers don't line up),
Huh? *Of course* numbering starts where the street starts. I had never
heard of the alternative, I suppose it comes with grid street plans,
which are awful & car centric & dehumanising.
On 04/09/2020 21:31, NY wrote:
I've got a Pi 3B+ and I'm thinking of upgrading to a 4B, partly to freeAs long as you've got the latest updates, you can just move the SD Card
up the Pi 3 to do other tasks.
I've got a couple of questions?
- Can a "system disk" SD card (ie the same disk image) for 3B+ be used
for a 4B?
over.
On 08-09-2020 23:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Other favourites are San Francisco (house numbers start wherever the
street does, so on two adjacent streets that start in different places
the house numbers don't line up),
Huh? *Of course* numbering starts where the street starts. I had never
heard of the alternative, I suppose it comes with grid street plans,
which are awful & car centric & dehumanising.
When you say T-shaped, do you mean it's a cul-de-sac which joins
another road at the base of the T? I'd expect the numbering to start at
the junction between your road and another, and to continue either >consecutively or else alternately odd/even around the various legs of
the T.
So I started again from scratch, installing from the latest NOOBS. I'm >tempted to try copying all the files from the new card's recovery partition >to the old card's, to see if it helps? But that would be to satisfy my >curiosity: since the new NOOBS comes with Raspbian Buster rather than >Stretch, I may as well use that.
"druck" <news@druck.org.uk> wrote in message news:riual9$93d$1@dont-email.me...
On 04/09/2020 21:31, NY wrote:
I've got a Pi 3B+ and I'm thinking of upgrading to a 4B, partly toAs long as you've got the latest updates, you can just move the SD
free up the Pi 3 to do other tasks.
I've got a couple of questions?
- Can a "system disk" SD card (ie the same disk image) for 3B+ be
used for a 4B?
Card over.
"The latest updates" seems to be my stumbling block. I'd done "sudo apt update" and "sudo apt full-upgrade" on the Pi 3B+ before imaging the
card and creating a copy onto a new cad for the Pi 4. But I still got
https://postimg.cc/ZWGp5pz7
recover4.elf not found
fixup_rc.dat not found
recovery.elf is not compatible
On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 15:43:04 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> declaimed the following:
So I started again from scratch, installing from the latest NOOBS. I'm >>tempted to try copying all the files from the new card's recovery
partition
to the old card's, to see if it helps? But that would be to satisfy my >>curiosity: since the new NOOBS comes with Raspbian Buster rather than >>Stretch, I may as well use that.
The Pi 4 REQUIRES Buster. So much so that the Raspberry Pi foundation
had to release Raspbian based on a Debian release candidate -- Debian
didn't release final Buster until some two or three weeks AFTER the Pi 4
went on the market.
Is a later update to Rasbian Buster based on the final release (RC + bug >fixes), or will Raspian Buster always have any deficiencies that were in the >RC but were corrected in the FR of Debian?
Now, any idea how we can bring this back on topic for the Pi 4B?
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 296 |
| Nodes: | 16 (3 / 13) |
| Uptime: | 77:13:27 |
| Calls: | 6,658 |
| Calls today: | 4 |
| Files: | 12,203 |
| Messages: | 5,332,825 |
| Posted today: | 1 |