• Raspberry Pi 4-B 8GB as a desk/laptop replacement?

    From Ottavio Caruso@3:770/3 to All on Sun Aug 23 21:50:41 2020
    Hi,

    My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B
    8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.

    I can only stress "half decent"; I don't expect miracles.

    I would be running NetBSD [1], not Raspbian.

    I don't really do gaming or other CPU intensive tasks, but I do some
    word processing every now and again and I'd like to build my own
    packages from pkgsrc.

    I'm getting disillusioned with newer Thinkpads and the old ones are just
    too old.

    Thanks

    [1] https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/aarch64/

    --
    Ottavio Caruso

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  • From bob prohaska@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Mon Aug 24 00:38:43 2020
    Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Hi,

    My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B
    8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.

    I can only stress "half decent"; I don't expect miracles.

    I would be running NetBSD [1], not Raspbian.

    I don't really do gaming or other CPU intensive tasks, but I do some
    word processing every now and again and I'd like to build my own
    packages from pkgsrc.


    I think it's a reasonable gamble for a desktop. Laptop might have
    packaging issues.

    No direct experience with either a Pi4 or NetBSD, but lots of experience
    using FreeBSD-stable and -current on Pi2/3. So long as I go easy on
    the graphics, even that feeble setup performs quite well. It'll choke
    on even the lightest use of the Chromeium browser, but it's usable with
    some patience under LXDE or XFCE4. An 8 GB pi4 should solve both issues
    and I plan to try the experiment in the near future, initially with
    RaspiOS and later with FreeBSD when the port is better-supported..

    I'm using a Pi3 under Buster right now, and it's a tolerable experience, chromium included. However, the Pi Foundation has likely tuned the OS/GUI
    for the platform, I doubt a BSD would perform equally well, as it's apt
    to eschew some of the closed-source goodies that Broadcom promotes.

    HTH, please post any discoveries!

    bob prohaska

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  • From Mayayana@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Sun Aug 23 21:05:42 2020
    "Ottavio Caruso" <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote

    | My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B
    | 8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    | addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.
    |

    I find it perfectly usable running it through a TV
    screen with wireless keyboard/mouse on a tray,
    while I sit on the sofa. Doing the same with a monitor
    would work just as well. Firefox and Thunderbird seem
    to work fine.

    The biggest issue to my mind is that it's an ARM
    CPU. That means any other common software probably
    won't work. Word processing? OK. But printing? I
    don't know. Image editing? I doubt it. ARM is mostly
    used for limited service-type devices like phones and
    tablets.

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  • From bob prohaska@3:770/3 to Mayayana on Mon Aug 24 01:52:19 2020
    Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
    "Ottavio Caruso" <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote

    | My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B
    | 8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    | addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.
    |

    I find it perfectly usable running it through a TV
    screen with wireless keyboard/mouse on a tray,
    while I sit on the sofa. Doing the same with a monitor
    would work just as well. Firefox and Thunderbird seem
    to work fine.

    The biggest issue to my mind is that it's an ARM
    CPU. That means any other common software probably
    won't work. Word processing? OK. But printing? I
    don't know. Image editing? I doubt it. ARM is mostly
    used for limited service-type devices like phones and
    tablets.

    FWIW, support for printing under CUPS seems quite good
    with Buster. The OP wants to use NetBSD.

    Getting GUI-based ports running under FreeBSD has been
    a hassle. I suspect NetBSD will be similar. CUPS requires
    a browser to administer, maybe epiphany would suffice.

    Thanks for reading,

    bob prohaska

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  • From Henri Derksen@2:280/1208 to Ottavio Caruso on Mon Aug 24 04:06:00 2020
    Hello Ottavio,

    My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B
    8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.
    I can only stress "half decent"; I don't expect miracles.
    I would be running NetBSD [1], not Raspbian.
    I don't really do gaming or other CPU intensive tasks, but I do some
    word processing every now and again and I'd like to build my own
    packages from pkgsrc.
    I'm getting disillusioned with newer Thinkpads and the old ones are just
    too old.
    Thanks
    [1] https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/aarch64/

    I visited that site, and only the Raspberry Pi 3B is listed there,
    not de Pi 4B.
    Beware, the Pi 4B 8GB is different from the Pi 4B 4GB model !
    I have both and the Raspbian Buster 2019 works ok at the 4 GB model 4B,
    but for the 8GB model 4B,
    so I had to install the newer version of Raspbian Buster may 27 2020.
    That's why I am a little bit pessimistic if the NetBSD wil work on the
    Pi 4B 8GB.

    Saturday August 22th I tried to install Ubuntu Server 20.04 LTS on a new 32 GB microSDcard, and that worked ok at 2 displays, the Eizo FlexScan L367 and my mini TV MT-Logic LE207839MT 17" with HDMI at the Pi's first left HDMI port.
    But I had no sound from HDMI or the 3.5 mm Jack source ;-(.
    I did not understand why?
    On the Philips 196V3LSB/00 I got an unreadable mangled text screen.
    That monitor has only a VGA and a DVI-D port.
    Strange as the Eizo worked ok at the DVI-D port.
    Then I could install the Mate desktop, but that took a large amount of time.

    I donot know the solution how to get a good view with the Philips monitor.
    It must be some setting in Ubuntu or boot partition,
    as Raspbian works good there with all my Pi's with all RISC OS and all Raspbian
    versions.
    A friend of my from the computerclub also tried RISC OS at the Pi 4B
    with a strange setup of the USB3.1C (power-) port and a powered hub.
    You need a USB3.1C to USB3.1A converter cable for that.
    I think the normal USB2A and 3A ports are not accessable with RISC OS
    on the Pi 4B.

    But with Raspbian you can browse the web and also work with LibreOffice.
    For YouTube video's a Pi 4B with at least 2 GB is the better solution,
    but if you can spend the money, choose for a Pi 4B 4GB,
    or even better a Pi 4B 8GB in a transparant case with fan.
    Do not choose a metal case, as that gives worst results with WiFi and BlueTooth
    if you need wireless connections.
    My Pi 3B+ hangs naked in the air and gets over 20 WiFi stations here.
    My Pi 3B in aluminium case with transparant lid got much less stations.
    But at home I only use RJ45 EtherNet cables.
    I am using older Pi's for AIS+ECDIS at inland ships with OpenCPN.
    At home I have an AIS-receiver and a USB2A GPS mouse for that purpose.
    Good luck.

    Henri.
    ---
    * Origin: Connectivity is the Future; UniCornBBS.Demon.nl (2:280/1208)
  • From Jim Jackson@3:770/3 to Mayayana on Mon Aug 24 16:52:05 2020
    On 2020-08-24, Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
    The biggest issue to my mind is that it's an ARM
    CPU. That means any other common software probably
    won't work. Word processing? OK. But printing? I
    don't know. Image editing? I doubt it. ARM is mostly
    used for limited service-type devices like phones and
    tablets.


    So far, I can do everything on my 8GB Pi4B that I can on my Linux based
    Intel desktop. The full range of opensource software is available - for
    image editing gimp, darktable etc. The QGIS mapping software works fine
    - better, because the Pi4 had more memory than my desktop. I'll be investigating video editing soon, but the opensource applications should
    work. My own software just recompiles and runs.

    Proprietary software could be a problem; I don't do games so can't comment
    on that; I'm pretty sure Wine is out of the question, so if you need
    to run MSbased programs that need to run under wine that's a problem.

    Jim

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Jim Jackson on Mon Aug 24 19:38:47 2020
    Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
    So far, I can do everything on my 8GB Pi4B that I can on my Linux based
    Intel desktop. The full range of opensource software is available - for
    image editing gimp, darktable etc. The QGIS mapping software works fine
    - better, because the Pi4 had more memory than my desktop. I'll be investigating video editing soon, but the opensource applications should work. My own software just recompiles and runs.

    Comparison of video editing capabilities of a RPi 4, Odroid N2 and Jetson
    Nano: https://youtu.be/NRsXiRcaItk

    Kdenlive seems to run quite well.

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  • From Folderol@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Mon Aug 24 21:41:16 2020
    On 24 Aug 2020 19:38:47 GMT
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:

    Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
    So far, I can do everything on my 8GB Pi4B that I can on my Linux based
    Intel desktop. The full range of opensource software is available - for
    image editing gimp, darktable etc. The QGIS mapping software works fine
    - better, because the Pi4 had more memory than my desktop. I'll be
    investigating video editing soon, but the opensource applications should
    work. My own software just recompiles and runs.

    Comparison of video editing capabilities of a RPi 4, Odroid N2 and Jetson >Nano: https://youtu.be/NRsXiRcaItk

    Kdenlive seems to run quite well.

    Thanks for that. Very interesting indeed.

    --
    W J G

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  • From Jim Jackson@3:770/3 to Dumas on Mon Aug 24 20:54:36 2020
    On 2020-08-24, A Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:
    Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
    So far, I can do everything on my 8GB Pi4B that I can on my Linux based
    Intel desktop. The full range of opensource software is available - for
    image editing gimp, darktable etc. The QGIS mapping software works fine
    - better, because the Pi4 had more memory than my desktop. I'll be
    investigating video editing soon, but the opensource applications should
    work. My own software just recompiles and runs.

    Comparison of video editing capabilities of a RPi 4, Odroid N2 and Jetson Nano: https://youtu.be/NRsXiRcaItk

    Kdenlive seems to run quite well.


    Thanks for that.

    Jim

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  • From Ottavio Caruso@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Tue Aug 25 09:35:53 2020
    On 23/08/2020 21:50, Ottavio Caruso wrote:


    My OP:


    My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B
    8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.

    Thank you all for the input.

    I just wanted to point out that my choice would go for NetBSD because,
    it seems, NetBSD can use all the 8GM RAM, while other OSes, including
    Raspbian, can only use 3GB RAM. I haven't really looked into details of
    why this happens, but I suspect it has to do with NetBSD using the Pi in
    real 64bit mode, while Raspbian running in 32-bit mode, both in kernel-
    and user-land. I could be wrong. I've asked around but I didn't get much feedback; maybe you could help.


    --
    Ottavio Caruso

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  • From Jim Jackson@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Tue Aug 25 09:27:01 2020
    On 2020-08-25, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On 23/08/2020 21:50, Ottavio Caruso wrote:


    My OP:


    My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B
    8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.

    Thank you all for the input.

    I just wanted to point out that my choice would go for NetBSD because,
    it seems, NetBSD can use all the 8GM RAM, while other OSes, including Raspbian, can only use 3GB RAM. I haven't really looked into details of
    why this happens, but I suspect it has to do with NetBSD using the Pi in
    real 64bit mode, while Raspbian running in 32-bit mode, both in kernel-
    and user-land. I could be wrong. I've asked around but I didn't get much feedback; maybe you could help.

    Not true. 32bit RaspberryPI OS can use all the memory, but each process
    is limited, basically to 2GB(*). So if you need more for one process then
    you will need a 64bit OS. They are working on a 64bit version of
    RapberryPI OS, but I am not sure what stage it is at.

    Jim

    (*) 3GB with some voodoo which I don't understand :-)

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  • From Jim Jackson@3:770/3 to Jim Jackson on Tue Aug 25 10:28:30 2020
    On 2020-08-25, Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
    On 2020-08-25, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On 23/08/2020 21:50, Ottavio Caruso wrote:


    My OP:


    My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B >>> 8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.

    Thank you all for the input.

    I just wanted to point out that my choice would go for NetBSD because,
    it seems, NetBSD can use all the 8GM RAM, while other OSes, including
    Raspbian, can only use 3GB RAM. I haven't really looked into details of
    why this happens, but I suspect it has to do with NetBSD using the Pi in
    real 64bit mode, while Raspbian running in 32-bit mode, both in kernel-
    and user-land. I could be wrong. I've asked around but I didn't get much
    feedback; maybe you could help.

    Not true. 32bit RaspberryPI OS can use all the memory, but each process
    is limited, basically to 2GB(*). So if you need more for one process then
    you will need a 64bit OS. They are working on a 64bit version of
    RapberryPI OS, but I am not sure what stage it is at.

    Jim

    (*) 3GB with some voodoo which I don't understand :-)

    Ooops, I think that maybe 3GB and (*) 4GB.

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  • From David Taylor@3:770/3 to Jim Jackson on Tue Aug 25 11:33:34 2020
    On 25/08/2020 10:27, Jim Jackson wrote:
    []
    Not true. 32bit RaspberryPI OS can use all the memory, but each process
    is limited, basically to 2GB(*). So if you need more for one process then
    you will need a 64bit OS. They are working on a 64bit version of
    RapberryPI OS, but I am not sure what stage it is at.

    Jim

    (*) 3GB with some voodoo which I don't understand :-)

    Beta 64-bit installed and working without issue on one 4 GB RPi card here.

    https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=275370

    --
    Cheers,
    David
    Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to David Taylor on Tue Aug 25 11:36:19 2020
    David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
    Beta 64-bit installed and working without issue on one 4 GB RPi card here. https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=275370

    No hardware gpu acceleration, yet, so graphical desktop and browser
    probably quite slow, certainly for video. They removed MMAL in an update because it threw errors, which for some reason made VNC Server unable to
    run. Also no Mathematica.

    ("MMAL (Multimedia Abstraction Layer) is a C library designed by Broadcom
    for use with the Videocore IV GPU found on the Raspberry Pi. Providing an abstraction layer upon another C library "OpenMAX", MMAL exposes an API allowing developers to take images and record video from their Raspberry Pi which is easier to understand and consume.")

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Tue Aug 25 12:04:29 2020
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:
    They removed MMAL in an update

    Which also means no support for the camera module, I guess.

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  • From Mayayana@3:770/3 to Ottavio Caruso on Tue Aug 25 08:52:08 2020
    "Ottavio Caruso" <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote

    | I just wanted to point out that my choice would go for NetBSD because,
    | it seems, NetBSD can use all the 8GM RAM, while other OSes, including
    | Raspbian, can only use 3GB RAM.

    Are you sure you need that? I'm writing this on Windows
    XP 32-bit. I run image editing, RAW editing, Visual Studio 6,
    Libre Office, sometimes Avidemux, a video player, and various
    other things. After feeding the graphics I end up with about 3
    GB RAM. I almost never get anywhere close to using it. The
    only situation where it might show a difference would be
    with video editing or extremely large image editing. From your
    initial description it's hard to imagine where you might need so
    much RAM.

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  • From Theo@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Tue Aug 25 13:20:50 2020
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:
    David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
    Beta 64-bit installed and working without issue on one 4 GB RPi card here. https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=275370

    No hardware gpu acceleration, yet, so graphical desktop and browser
    probably quite slow, certainly for video. They removed MMAL in an update because it threw errors, which for some reason made VNC Server unable to
    run. Also no Mathematica.

    ("MMAL (Multimedia Abstraction Layer) is a C library designed by Broadcom
    for use with the Videocore IV GPU found on the Raspberry Pi. Providing an abstraction layer upon another C library "OpenMAX", MMAL exposes an API allowing developers to take images and record video from their Raspberry Pi which is easier to understand and consume.")

    Ubuntu are shipping 64 bit images, as are other distros like Fedora. I
    don't know what level of support you get for Pi-specific features like
    hardware acceleration - most of these are targeted at 'server' type applications, although you can install a graphical desktop.

    (I don't imagine NetBSD does much in the way of hardware acceleration either)

    Theo

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  • From Dennis Lee Bieber@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 25 09:39:13 2020
    On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 09:27:01 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> declaimed the following:


    Not true. 32bit RaspberryPI OS can use all the memory, but each process
    is limited, basically to 2GB(*). So if you need more for one process then
    you will need a 64bit OS. They are working on a 64bit version of
    RapberryPI OS, but I am not sure what stage it is at.


    There had been a link (which I can't find) to a 64-bit release of the May 27 build, file name => 2020-05-27-raspios-buster-arm64.zip (so not a
    NOOBS installer). I haven't had the nerve to try configuring it (I've
    gotten used to doing NOOBS installs of Debian).

    **** just did a quick Google: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=275370

    There's a newer build at https://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspios_arm64/images/



    (*) 3GB with some voodoo which I don't understand :-)

    I understand how Windows does it, but not Linux. The actual (32-bit unsigned integer) address space is 4GB. Normal Windows splits that into 2GB
    for the executing program itself, and 2GB for shared system files (DLLs).
    There is a boot-time setting and compiler/linker options meant for server computers with sets it to 3GB executing program and 1GB for the shared
    system files (Servers are expected to have few actual ad-hoc programs
    running, so few strange DLLs, but the application will have lots of data
    and threads). The 2GB limit for file size on Windows is more a result of so many applications using signed integer logic (especially Java -- no
    unsigned at all) so it is difficult to seek/address records beyond the 2GB limit.



    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Tue Aug 25 14:41:23 2020
    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:
    It's not 2-3 but 3-4 on the Pi (like he wrote in a follow-up) and the
    reason is not signed integers but a hardware bug of some sort. Can't be bothered to google up the details, sorry :)

    Hm, maybe not a hardware bug (or SoC limitation), I was sure I read that somewhere though. Could be like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_GB_barrier

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Dennis Lee Bieber on Tue Aug 25 14:31:53 2020
    Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
    I understand how Windows does it, but not Linux. The actual (32-bit unsigned integer) address space is 4GB. Normal Windows splits that into 2GB for the executing program itself, and 2GB for shared system files (DLLs). There is a boot-time setting and compiler/linker options meant for server computers with sets it to 3GB executing program and 1GB for the shared
    system files (Servers are expected to have few actual ad-hoc programs running, so few strange DLLs, but the application will have lots of data
    and threads). The 2GB limit for file size on Windows is more a result of so many applications using signed integer logic (especially Java -- no
    unsigned at all) so it is difficult to seek/address records beyond the 2GB limit.

    It's not 2-3 but 3-4 on the Pi (like he wrote in a follow-up) and the
    reason is not signed integers but a hardware bug of some sort. Can't be bothered to google up the details, sorry :)

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  • From Dennis Lee Bieber@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 25 11:23:19 2020
    On 25 Aug 2020 14:41:23 GMT, A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid>
    declaimed the following:

    A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:
    It's not 2-3 but 3-4 on the Pi (like he wrote in a follow-up) and the
    reason is not signed integers but a hardware bug of some sort. Can't be
    bothered to google up the details, sorry :)

    Hm, maybe not a hardware bug (or SoC limitation), I was sure I read that >somewhere though. Could be like this: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_GB_barrier

    Which is specific to 32-bit Intel systems -- and covers what I described... The MMIO space falls into that upper bound that I defined as "Windows shared DLLs", putting the server OS version limit at 3GB.


    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

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  • From Dennis Lee Bieber@3:770/3 to All on Tue Aug 25 11:31:18 2020
    On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 08:52:08 -0400, "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> declaimed the following:


    Are you sure you need that? I'm writing this on Windows
    XP 32-bit. I run image editing, RAW editing, Visual Studio 6,
    Libre Office, sometimes Avidemux, a video player, and various
    other things. After feeding the graphics I end up with about 3
    GB RAM. I almost never get anywhere close to using it. The
    only situation where it might show a difference would be
    with video editing or extremely large image editing. From your
    initial description it's hard to imagine where you might need so
    much RAM.


    Whereas my 64-bit Win10 system -- with just Forte Agent, Pandora email, and Firefox (with 3 tabs) [and I think MySQL server running as a system process] shows 5.5GB (out of 12GB) "in use" -- with 5.2GB in the "unused"
    space holding cached data (ie; can be flushed if the memory is needed for something else, but in the meantime ready to be mapped back in if some
    process needs whatever DLL it holds).

    4 user applications counting "task manager". 70 background processes. 87 Windows processes.



    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

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  • From Rick Smith@1:340/202.1 to Dennis Lee Bieber on Tue Aug 25 09:12:44 2020
    Greetings Dennis!

    25 Aug 20 09:39, you wrote to All about an urgent matter!:

    On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 09:27:01 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson
    <jj@franjam.org.uk> declaimed the following:


    Not true. 32bit RaspberryPI OS can use all the memory, but each
    process is limited, basically to 2GB(*). So if you need more for one
    process then you will need a 64bit OS. They are working on a 64bit
    version of RapberryPI OS, but I am not sure what stage it is at.


    There had been a link (which I can't find) to a 64-bit release
    of the May 27 build, file name => 2020-05-27-raspios-buster-arm64.zip
    (so not a NOOBS installer). I haven't had the nerve to try configuring
    it (I've gotten used to doing NOOBS installs of Debian).

    **** just did a quick Google: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=275370

    I found the 64bit beta for my 8gb pi but had to switch back it seems that I could not get realvnc to work on it and I rely on vnc for my pi's

    ----
    Regards,


    Rick Smith (Nitro)

    ... BBSing - all the social dynamics of pre-school!!
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: ----> Abacus Sysop Point --->>>>bbs.abon.us:2323 (1:340/202.1)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to Jim Jackson on Tue Aug 25 21:22:25 2020
    On 25/08/2020 10:27, Jim Jackson wrote:
    Not true. 32bit RaspberryPI OS can use all the memory, but each process
    is limited, basically to 2GB(*). So if you need more for one process then
    you will need a 64bit OS. They are working on a 64bit version of
    RapberryPI OS, but I am not sure what stage it is at.

    The 64-bit version of ARM Debian works, but as mentioned lacks a few
    things including GPU acceleration.

    I'm using a half-way-house, running the 64-bit kernel but keeping the
    32-bit Raspbain userland. The raspbian-nspawn package then lets me
    create a 64-bit container and run 64-bit applications when I need them.

    ---druck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Mayayana@3:770/3 to Dennis Lee Bieber on Tue Aug 25 18:31:43 2020
    "Dennis Lee Bieber" <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote


    | Whereas my 64-bit Win10 system -- with just Forte Agent, Pandora email,
    | and Firefox (with 3 tabs) [and I think MySQL server running as a system
    | process] shows 5.5GB (out of 12GB) "in use" -- with 5.2GB in the "unused"
    | space holding cached data (ie; can be flushed if the memory is needed for
    | something else, but in the meantime ready to be mapped back in if some
    | process needs whatever DLL it holds).
    |
    | 4 user applications counting "task manager". 70 background processes.
    | 87 Windows processes.
    |
    Those Microsofties sure are cards, aren't they? :)

    I have maybe 12 services running. But I wonder what your
    system would look like if you only had 2 GB RAM. I'm
    not sure, but I'd guess that there's some accommodation
    to use more if it's available and be more lean if RAM is short.
    Though on mine right now I have New Moon open, as well
    as Outlook Express, and the total RAM usage is about 1/2 GB.
    200MB of that is New Moon. 2.7 GB free. A second NM
    window only adds about 10 MB.

    I'm curious how much RPi4 uses. I'm assuming it's far more
    lean than even XP.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Martin Gregorie@3:770/3 to Mayayana on Tue Aug 25 23:31:42 2020
    On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 18:31:43 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

    I'm curious how much RPi4 uses. I'm assuming it's far more
    lean than even XP.

    Easy enough to find out: just run 'top' Here's thje numbers for whay I'm
    in front of: Lenovo T440 with 8GB RAM

    From top: 7.6 GB RAM, 2.6 GB free, 1.3 GB used (processes)
    3.6 GB file cache
    0.0GB swap used (16.5GB swap space
    Processes: 1 process running out of 228

    Programs I started: top, Evolution (mail), Brave browser, Pan newsreader.

    There's very little difference in terms of memory used when I'm running
    a C or Java compilation without unloading any of the rest - bit less
    free memory is all - which probably just means that make, C compiler,
    linker and my (written in Java) C documentation generator and all the
    source files were still in cache memory from the programming I was doing
    before dinner. When I reran a whole library recompile just now it ran
    just as quickly as it had earlier, showing that no code or data had been ejected from cache in the interim.


    --
    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Scott Alfter@3:770/3 to ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com on Wed Aug 26 17:23:27 2020
    In article <ri2iha$gmm$1@dont-email.me>,
    Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On 23/08/2020 21:50, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    My current Thinkpad is dying and I was wondering if the Raspberry Pi 4-B
    8GB would be a half-decent laptop replacement, obviously with the
    addition of a portable monitor (suggestions?) and an external drive.

    I just wanted to point out that my choice would go for NetBSD because,
    it seems, NetBSD can use all the 8GM RAM, while other OSes, including >Raspbian, can only use 3GB RAM.

    You can put 64-bit Gentoo Linux on a Raspberry Pi:

    https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi-64bit

    Having a cross-development environment helps, though with more RAM on the
    RPi 4, native compiles of most packages shouldn't be too painful. (You'd probably still want to cross-compile truly massive ebuilds like Chromium, though.)

    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Brian Gregory@3:770/3 to All on Wed Aug 26 23:51:20 2020
    Show me where to download an SD card image and I'll try it if you like.

    I looked for one myself and couldn't find one, just lots of instructions
    about, I think, how to make the bootloader.

    --
    Brian Gregory (in England).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)