• DC & Maine Update

    From IB Joe@1:342/200 to All on Mon Jan 1 13:09:44 2024
    https://youtu.be/T14LWp9TjM4?si=AMeukWVZFUL80bKS

    Local Maine Republican Rep looking to Impeach SoS for her clearly partisan attempt in election medaling...

    In DC Republican Rep. Clay Higgins looking to pass a law that will remove the electoral votes away from the Candidate who this benefits from this...

    In this short video they recap that Trump has never been charged for insurrection, or found guilty there of... or anyone whose got to court for any J6 activity either.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Tue Jan 2 09:28:00 2024
    In DC Republican Rep. Clay Higgins looking to pass a law that will remove the ectoral votes away from the Candidate who this benefits from this...

    How would they prove that they disqualified candidate would have won?
    Polls are crap so you cannot use those.


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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Tue Jan 2 09:39:52 2024
    On 02 Jan 2024, Mike Powell said the following...


    In DC Republican Rep. Clay Higgins looking to pass a law that will remov ectoral votes away from the Candidate who this benefits from this...

    How would they prove that they disqualified candidate would have won? Polls are crap so you cannot use those.


    Well... All the BS that's going on right now is proof enough. Joe Biden can come out tomorrow and call off the dogs and say... Our policies are better than Trump's policies and we'll see him at the ballot box.

    But he doesn't...

    If the Democrats want to destroy our constitution in efforts not to meet a challenger than this is on them.

    Joe stood up to Corn Pop, why can't he just do the same with Trump!!!

    David Axelrod believes they are taking things too far. It's making trump look like a martyr and a victim.... and it's also proving Trump's point about the Deep State.

    So far the Republicans are thinking about stripping away electoral votes for those states who wish to strip away the rights of their citizens to vote for a candidate of their choice...

    And there have been grumblings that they, Republicans, won't certify the election results on January 2025 if they don't knock it off.

    Both Biden and Trump have resume... let them duke it out and have an election...

    BTW, I think it was the Colorado GOP that came up with a good idea and that was to move from a Primary election to a caucus where they don't use a ballot.

    Let the people chose whoever they want...

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Wed Jan 3 08:43:00 2024
    In DC Republican Rep. Clay Higgins looking to pass a law that will remo
    ectoral votes away from the Candidate who this benefits from this...

    How would they prove that they disqualified candidate would have won? Polls are crap so you cannot use those.


    Well... All the BS that's going on right now is proof enough. Joe Biden can c
    e out tomorrow and call off the dogs and say... Our policies are better than T
    mp's policies and we'll see him at the ballot box.

    What has gone on so far is to try to keep Trump off of primary ballots.
    How would they prove that Trump would have been victorious over other Republicans? With polls also being BS, you cannot use those.

    So if Trump cannot win the Primary in that state, how could they take
    electoral votes away should that winner go on to be the Republican
    candidate and then win that state? In theory, they could have benefitted
    from Trump's removal. Stripping them of the votes will only throw the
    election to a Democrat.

    This sounds like an unenforceable law that that some lawyer thought up to
    clog the legal system, or by some Democrat.


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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Wed Jan 3 08:02:25 2024
    On 03 Jan 2024, Mike Powell said the following...


    So if Trump cannot win the Primary in that state, how could they take electoral votes away should that winner go on to be the Republican candidate and then win that state? In theory, they could have benefitted from Trump's removal. Stripping them of the votes will only throw the election to a Democrat.


    This is why... form centuries the American system has been to let the voters to decide... It's a bad president.

    It is simple... In order for Trump to be removed because of Amendment 14 you'd need a few things...

    1) A Federal Prosecutor
    2) A Grand Jury Indictment on insurrection
    3) A conviction on insurrection
    4) That conviction must stand the appeals process

    And then you might have a case for Amendment 14.

    In the US you don't find someone guilty because your "Spidie Sense" tingle.

    What you want me to believe is that Trump tired to overthrow himself. He was not at the Capital. He never said overthrow himself. He was prevented, as per the Secret Service, from going to the Capital to thy and cool things down. There is no evidence that it was a protest that went bad... Looks like the Feds may have played a part in gas lighting the crowd.

    BTW, and thank god... 2 lawsuits have came about recently. Derrick Vargo, the guy who was pushed off the staircase at the capital is suing the Capital Police... He claims that the CP tried to kill him... and Victoria White also filed a case against the CP and as well the current Speaker of the house was mentioned in those suits.

    I don't fully understand why Pelosi wasn't mentioned... BUT I get what they are trying to do... They want discovery... What did Nancy know and when did she know it...

    SMART...

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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Thu Jan 4 07:28:49 2024
    Mike Powell wrote to IB JOE <=-

    So if Trump cannot win the Primary in that state, how could they take electoral votes away should that winner go on to be the Republican candidate and then win that state? In theory, they could have
    benefitted from Trump's removal. Stripping them of the votes will only throw the election to a Democrat.

    You bring up an interesting idea.

    Let's assume for the moment that Colorado kept Trump off the primary ballot. But Trump still won in the primaries overall. And then Colorado decides to keep Trump off the main ballot too.

    Is that legal? According to the U.S. Constitution only the Colorado Legislature can decide that.

    But is it right? The ballot would not have the Republican candidate on it which would deprive people's right to choose in a FEDERAL election.

    IHMO: The Electoral votes from Colorado would be void since there was, effectively, no election there for President.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Thu Jan 4 11:00:00 2024
    It is simple... In order for Trump to be removed because of Amendment 14 you'd
    eed a few things...

    1) A Federal Prosecutor
    2) A Grand Jury Indictment on insurrection
    3) A conviction on insurrection
    4) That conviction must stand the appeals process

    And then you might have a case for Amendment 14.

    In the US you don't find someone guilty because your "Spidie Sense" tingle.

    While the last sentence is true, the rest is not necessarily so. If you go back and trace the history of the 14th, you will find:

    1) Persons originally stripped of their elected offices, without any prosecutor, Grand Jury, conviction, or successful appeals -- some without
    any charges at all. They were simply removed from office, usually by the
    Union Army, and were considered unable to hold office again.

    2) All but ~500 of these persons + others who were stripped, by the passage
    of the 14th, of future office-holding rights -- again, with no prosecutor, Grand Jury, conviction, or appeals -- had those rights restored by the mid-1870's. I am not sure if any of the other ~500 ever had those rights restored.

    3) During WWI and the Wilson administration, the 14th was used against two persons. NEITHER were charged or convicted of insurrection. BOTH were charged, at least, with violating the Espionage Act for speaking out
    publically against US participation in the war. One may have had
    additional charges, but neither were found guilty of Insurrection.

    -- One was in prison in Georgia and ran for President from jail. Either
    he never challenged the use of the 14th or was not successful in doing so.
    As he didn't win, its application was moot.
    -- The other was a Socialist candidate elected to the US Congress from Wisconsin. Citing the 14th, Congress refused to seat him. This was
    challenged and the Congressman was eventually successful in his case.

    So, previous *precedence* (not *presidents*!) exists of the 14th being used without *any* trial *or* conviction, and also being used (with mixed results!) without conviction specifically for "Insurrection."

    As I keep saying, we will need to see how the SCOTUS rules. In my opinion, they will need to actually issue an opinion and not just bounce it. That
    way, if they find grounds, they can satisfy people like you as to why
    without being called "Rinos!" or "libtards" or have their lives threatened. Similarly, if they find no grounds, they can satisfy people like you (but from the opposite side) as to why without being called "MAGAs" or having their
    lives threatened.

    If they just dismiss it, there is a large section of the population who has already been tainted with the idea that they are acting based on politics
    and not the law.

    I believe they will find in his favor, at the very least, because Colorado likely does not have jurisdiction to determine the nature of what happened on January 6th because it didn't happen in Colorado. They may find in his
    favor because of lack of Due Process (although there are previous cases re:
    the 14th where there also was none).

    They could, however, look at the weight of all of his actions since leaving office and take some other course of action which could, in turn, leave the door open for additional legal actions and more cases.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Thu Jan 4 10:40:00 2024
    So if Trump cannot win the Primary in that state, how could they take electoral votes away should that winner go on to be the Republican candidate and then win that state? In theory, they could have benefitted from Trump's removal. Stripping them of the votes will only throw the election to a Democrat.

    You bring up an interesting idea.

    Let's assume for the moment that Colorado kept Trump off the primary ballot. But Trump still won in the primaries overall. And then Colorado decides to keep Trump off the main ballot too.

    Is that legal? According to the U.S. Constitution only the Colorado Legislature can decide that.

    I am not from Colorado and have not dug into their rules, but it is
    possible they have a law delegating this right to their SoS. In Kentucky,
    the SoS Office is responsible for the ballots, and can interpret who is and
    is not eligible to be on them, but I am not sure if the SoS can specifically remove candidates for federal office without legislative action.

    For recent examples, I know that several third party Presidential slates
    only appear on ballots in some states and not all states. In our state, I
    am pretty certain it is the SoS Office that decides who qualified for our ballot and who did not. I don't think Kanye was on the ballot here, for example, but he was elsewhere.

    But is it right? The ballot would not have the Republican candidate on it which would deprive people's right to choose in a FEDERAL election.

    IHMO: The Electoral votes from Colorado would be void since there was, effectively, no election there for President.

    Yeah, I am not sure what they'd do in that case. There have been some
    oddball things that have happened over the years, like during the 1960's,
    that caused electoral votes to either be voided or "reapplied."

    It is too bad we don't have a participant from Colorado who can share how
    they feel about Trump not being on their ballot.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Fri Jan 5 08:05:32 2024
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Is that legal? According to the U.S. Constitution only the Colorado Legislature can decide that.

    I am not from Colorado and have not dug into their rules, but it is possible they have a law delegating this right to their SoS.

    But they can't make such a law since it would directly violate the U.S. Constitution which says that only the legislature has that authority.

    This is something I hope the SCOTUS rules on at some point:
    Can the legislature cede its authority to a gov't agency when the Constitution explicitly says that only the legislature has the authority?

    This is the root of the problem with the Bureaucracy (the unconstitutional 4th branch of gov't). The Legislature passes a law that says "This agency here can make the rules about this topic." Effectively the Legislature has granted law making ability to that agency - which violates the Constitution which says that only the Legislature has that ability. Also, the agency is under the Executive branch, since Executive Orders only impact gov't agencies. That violates the Constitution separation of powers.

    In
    Kentucky, the SoS Office is responsible for the ballots, and can
    interpret who is and is not eligible to be on them, but I am not sure
    if the SoS can specifically remove candidates for federal office
    without legislative action.

    It's similar here in Michigan. But the state Constition says the only the Legislature can change the rules of voting. Ex: The SoS can't unilaterally say that voting can span a week and declare mail-in voting for everyone.

    For recent examples, I know that several third party Presidential
    slates only appear on ballots in some states and not all states. In
    our state, I am pretty certain it is the SoS Office that decides who qualified for our ballot and who did not.

    But I think it's important to note that the SoS usually doesn't get to set the rules - just implement them. So if the rules are "You need so many signatures to be on the ballot" and you don't get that many signatures, then the SoS says you can't be on the ballot. But the SoS can't make new requirements to get on the ballot.

    It is too bad we don't have a participant from Colorado who can share
    how they feel about Trump not being on their ballot.

    I don't think that any of us are Constitutional Scholars, so this is just all speculation on our part. The Elitists are trying their hardest and pulling out all the excuses. Sort of reminds me of playing Magic cards a long time ago.


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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ron L. on Fri Jan 5 15:44:33 2024
    Hello Ron,

    Is that legal? According to the U.S. Constitution only the Colorado Legislature can decide that.

    You might want to read the US Constitution again. The real one,
    not the fake MAGA crap version.

    But is it right? The ballot would not have the Republican candidate on it which would deprive people's right to choose in a FEDERAL election.

    Since this country does not have federal elections, why would there
    even be any ballots?

    For Life,
    Lee

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Fri Jan 5 10:36:00 2024
    Is that legal? According to the U.S. Constitution only the Colorado Legislature can decide that.

    I am not from Colorado and have not dug into their rules, but it is possible they have a law delegating this right to their SoS.

    But they can't make such a law since it would directly violate the U.S. Constitution which says that only the legislature has that authority.

    But they can. In this case, it would be the legislature passing a law
    stating that, in their state, the SoS has that authority. I don't know
    about your state, but here our legislature is not in session the whole year like Congress is, so they delegate things to elected officials who do
    actually work the entire year.

    Here, elected (and sometimes appointed) officials have the right to do
    things granted by an existing law. If they want to do *new* things, they
    have to wait for the next session to have that authority granted.
    Similarly, if the legislature wants to remove something, they also have to
    wait until they are in session.

    It is very rare that something comes up important enough for a special
    session to be called.

    This is something I hope the SCOTUS rules on at some point:
    Can the legislature cede its authority to a gov't agency when the Constitution
    explicitly says that only the legislature has the authority?

    I think that is what is meant to happen, i.e. it is up to the state
    legislature to decide how they exercise that authority. Government angencies cannot pass laws, but they can perform actions and make decisions delegated to them by their state legislature.

    The SCOTUS could decide, in this particular case, that the law would be unconstitutional, but I would suspect that could then be questioned as
    "Ins't that a states' rights thing?" unless there is something glaringly
    wrong about said law.

    This is the root of the problem with the Bureaucracy (the unconstitutional 4th
    branch of gov't). The Legislature passes a law that says "This agency here ca
    make the rules about this topic." Effectively the Legislature has granted law
    making ability to that agency - which violates the Constitution which says tha
    only the Legislature has that ability. Also, the agency is under the Executiv
    branch, since Executive Orders only impact gov't agencies. That violates the Constitution separation of powers.

    In the case of Kentucky, the SoS is not an appointed Bureaucrat. They are a state constitutional officer and are elected.

    Also, I am not sure we are talking about an officer making a rule.
    Rather, the Legislature passed a law stating that the officer has the
    authority to follow a rule (i.e. a law) that they have already passed.

    This is all assuming that Maine works like Kentucky in this regard -- and
    it may very well not.

    It's similar here in Michigan. But the state Constition says the only the Legislature can change the rules of voting. Ex: The SoS can't unilaterally sa
    that voting can span a week and declare mail-in voting for everyone.

    Here, we are talking about the laws around when they vote, and not who is
    in charge of making up the ballot. I am 100% certain that our state does
    not determine who is and who is not on every election ballot during their legislative session. I doubt many/any states do that.

    Instead they have laws that the SoS must follow while making such decisions.

    For recent examples, I know that several third party Presidential
    slates only appear on ballots in some states and not all states. In
    our state, I am pretty certain it is the SoS Office that decides who qualified for our ballot and who did not.

    But I think it's important to note that the SoS usually doesn't get to set the
    rules - just implement them. So if the rules are "You need so many signatures
    to be on the ballot" and you don't get that many signatures, then the SoS says
    you can't be on the ballot. But the SoS can't make new requirements to get on
    the ballot.

    In this case, they may not be making new rules. Being constitutionally
    able to hold office is probably already a rule. Per Judge Gorsuch, it is apparently the correct way to do it in Colorado -- i.e not a natural-born citizen, the SoS can keep you off the ballot.

    If states did not have such rules, I suspect that all the hoopla about
    Obama's status lead to a lot of Republican states adding such a rule, which their state's SoS must now follow.

    It is too bad we don't have a participant from Colorado who can share how they feel about Trump not being on their ballot.

    I don't think that any of us are Constitutional Scholars, so this is just all speculation on our part. The Elitists are trying their hardest and pulling ou
    all the excuses. Sort of reminds me of playing Magic cards a long time ago.

    No but I am at least familiar with how things work in my state. There is
    some Elitist or, at least, good ole D boy stuff that used to go on, and now there is starting to be some equally-stupid UMAGA stuff going on.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Sat Jan 6 09:55:32 2024
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    But they can't make such a law since it would directly violate the U.S. Constitution which says that only the legislature has that authority.

    But they can. In this case, it would be the legislature passing a law stating that, in their state, the SoS has that authority.

    The question is that if we have a higher law that says "Only X has authority" can X cede that authority to someone else? I assert, No.

    Since the U.S. Constitution is above Colorado law and the U.S. Constitution says only the state Legislatures have authority, I assert that the state Legislature cannot pass a law that the SoS has authority since thath would violate the U.S. Constitution.

    I don't know
    about your state, but here our legislature is not in session the whole year like Congress is, so they delegate things to elected officials who
    do actually work the entire year.

    There's a difference between "We assign this task to you" and "We are giving you some of our authority independent of us".

    Ex: Only the Legislature can make laws. Now, if the EPA wants to make up a set or rules, they can do that, but those rules cannot have the force of law behind them until the Legislature make those rules law. In many cases, this has not been done.

    Remember "We have to pass the law to know what's in it"? The "law" passed was effectively "We give the Bureaucracy authority to make law", which is unconstitutional.

    I think that is what is meant to happen, i.e. it is up to the state legislature to decide how they exercise that authority.

    I have to disagree. By the Legislature giving authority to the Bureaucracy, they have moved power from the Legislative Branch to the Executive Branch. That violates the idea of separation of powers.

    Government angencies cannot pass laws,

    But they, in effect, do. They make rules that have the force of law behind them without the Legislature approving them.

    In the case of Kentucky, the SoS is not an appointed Bureaucrat. They
    are a state constitutional officer and are elected.

    Same here in Michigan. But the SoS is part of the Executive Branch and constitutionally prohibited from making or changing law.

    In our case, the state constitution clearly states that only the Legislature has authority to make voting rules. Yet the SoS changed and added voting rules without the Legislature.

    Also, I am not sure we are talking about an officer making a rule.
    Rather, the Legislature passed a law stating that the officer has the authority to follow a rule (i.e. a law) that they have already passed.

    Again, that's not what's happening at the Federal level, and in many states.

    The Legislature is passing a law that says "This agency has the power to make the rules under force of law" and then makes rules WITHOUT the Legislature approving those rules.

    Instead they have laws that the SoS must follow while making such decisions.

    And here in Michigan, at least, the SoS, AG and Gov are all part of the same Elitist group. The Gov dictates to the SoS and the AG refuses to prosecute the crimes.

    No but I am at least familiar with how things work in my state. There
    is some Elitist or, at least, good ole D boy stuff that used to go on,
    and now there is starting to be some equally-stupid UMAGA stuff going
    on.

    Then I suggest reading up on Saul Alinsky since the Elitists seem to be following his playbook. One of the things he espoused was to dress up as your opponent and do bad things.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Sun Jan 7 10:16:00 2024
    But they can. In this case, it would be the legislature passing a law stating that, in their state, the SoS has that authority.

    The question is that if we have a higher law that says "Only X has authority" can X cede that authority to someone else? I assert, No.

    I think they can. I think what the Constitution says is that the federal government is delegating the decision of who can do X to the state
    legislatures and doesn't specifically mean they are the only ones who can
    do X.

    So the legislatures pass laws that the office they delegate such decisions
    to must follow. That way the legislature tells the office what they can
    and cannot do while doing X, while the legislature doesn't have to get down
    in the weeds or get their hands dirty.

    If it does litterally mean that only the legislature can ever do X, I have no idea how states would ever get things done. Legislatures are not really
    built for making granular, day-to-day case-by-case decisions like these.

    Since the U.S. Constitution is above Colorado law and the U.S. Constitution says only the state Legislatures have authority, I assert that the state Legislature cannot pass a law that the SoS has authority since thath would violate the U.S. Constitution.

    I think it means the legislature gets to decide how it is done in their
    state, and not that only they can do it, but we will find out soon enough.

    I don't know
    about your state, but here our legislature is not in session the whole year like Congress is, so they delegate things to elected officials who do actually work the entire year.

    There's a difference between "We assign this task to you" and "We are giving you some of our authority independent of us".

    Ex: Only the Legislature can make laws. Now, if the EPA wants to make up a se
    or rules, they can do that, but those rules cannot have the force of law behin
    them until the Legislature make those rules law. In many cases, this has not been done.

    Remember "We have to pass the law to know what's in it"? The "law" passed was
    effectively "We give the Bureaucracy authority to make law", which is unconstitutional.

    In the case of Kentucky, the legislature would have passed the law and the
    SoS would be following that law. I suspect it is the same in Colorado and Maine also... the law would include a stipulation that the candidates must be (US) Constitutionally eligible to hold the Federal Office in question, and
    the SoS may remove any candidates who do not meet those requirements.

    So the SoS would not be "making law" here but following it. Now, the
    QUESTION is did the Maine SoS properly FOLLOW the law? I think that is
    where the courts will find issue with her actions.

    In the case of Colorado, the SoS wasn't really involved until the Court
    told the SoS that it was their duty to remove a candidate who didn't
    qualify to be included on the ballot per Colorado law. In this case, the SCOTUS will decide if they acted correctly, or if they mis-interpreted the Constitutional eligibility requirement (possibly due to lack of
    jurisdiction and/or due process).

    Government angencies cannot pass laws,

    But they, in effect, do. They make rules that have the force of law behind them without the Legislature approving them.

    In this case, I don't think they did. The SoS didn't "pass" a law
    specifically removing Trump from their ballot. They interpreted a law,
    which they are duty bound to follow, that gave them the authority to remove someone who they believe is not Constitutionally eligible to hold office.

    The issue is whether or not the SoS properly interpreted and enforced an existing law(s).

    In the case of Kentucky, the SoS is not an appointed Bureaucrat. They are a state constitutional officer and are elected.

    Same here in Michigan. But the SoS is part of the Executive Branch and constitutionally prohibited from making or changing law.

    Correct. But they are also duty bound to interpret and uphold any laws
    that relate to the duties of their office. They take an oath to do so.

    In our case, the state constitution clearly states that only the Legislature has authority to make voting rules. Yet the SoS changed and added voting rule
    without the Legislature.

    If that is the case, the Michigan Legislature should take action.

    And here in Michigan, at least, the SoS, AG and Gov are all part of the same Elitist group. The Gov dictates to the SoS and the AG refuses to prosecute th
    crimes.

    Then that is certainly a problem. If someone would file suit against them,
    and get it appealed high enough, something might change.

    No but I am at least familiar with how things work in my state. There is some Elitist or, at least, good ole D boy stuff that used to go on, and now there is starting to be some equally-stupid UMAGA stuff going on.

    Then I suggest reading up on Saul Alinsky since the Elitists seem to be following his playbook. One of the things he espoused was to dress up as your
    opponent and do bad things.

    Could be, but then I would not expect them to be dressing up as Republicans while becoming vindictive against things that Democrats like, like abortion
    and gay marriage. I would expect the Elitist to dress as Republicans and
    then embrace these things. Since that is not what is happening, I am
    pretty sure it is UMAGA, and not Elitist, crap.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Where are you going?
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