It's sickening to think that our leftists are in favor of 2 million illegals,

Refugees seeking asylum are not illegals, and the only metric we have on border crossings are actual encounters, aka refugees plus illegal immigrants who failed to illegally immigrate.

Supposedly they are not. However, if you watch the news (not FOX news, but local news) and hear what the reporters say, or hear what folks like the
Mayor of NYC and others are saying, they use the words "illegal" sometimes, even when discussing migrants who are being moved around by the federal government, i.e. ones that have already encountered multiple government officials.

To the everyday person, that is confusing when news reports from reputable sources use terms interchangably.

Also of note is that AOC is all pro-immigration until the Mayor of NYC
proposes moving some of their illegal/asylum-seeking population into her district. It is all OK so long as they are down in Texas or Arizona or somewhere. Not so much when they might upset her constituents.


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It's sickening to think that our leftists are in favor of 2 million illegals,

Refugees seeking asylum are not illegals, and the only metric we have on border crossings are actual encounters, aka refugees plus illegal immigr who failed to illegally immigrate.

Supposedly they are not. However, if you watch the news (not FOX news, but local news) and hear what the reporters say, or hear what folks like the Mayor of NYC and others are saying, they use the words "illegal" sometimes, even when discussing migrants who are being moved around by
the federal government, i.e. ones that have already encountered multiple government officials.

To the everyday person, that is confusing when news reports from
reputable sources use terms interchangably.

I'm not that everyday person though. I clearly said "2 million illegals," and then Jeff mistakenly (insanely) took that as a cue to say "Illegals and refugees are not the same."

Also of note is that AOC is all pro-immigration until the Mayor of NYC proposes moving some of their illegal/asylum-seeking population into her district. It is all OK so long as they are down in Texas or Arizona or somewhere. Not so much when they might upset her constituents.

The mayor of NYC doesn't like migrants either, but the voters of NYC do. They asked for migrants when they voted for Joe, and now their wishes came true.

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On 08 Oct 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Refugees seeking asylum are not illegals, and the only metric we have on border crossings are actual encounters, aka refugees plus illegal immigr who failed to illegally immigrate.

Supposedly they are not. However, if you watch the news (not FOX news, but local news) and hear what the reporters say, or hear what folks like the Mayor of NYC and others are saying, they use the words "illegal" sometimes, even when discussing migrants who are being moved around by
the federal government, i.e. ones that have already encountered multiple government officials.

That, as I've discussed elsewhere, is careless at best and dishonest at
worst, on the part of the media.

To the everyday person, that is confusing when news reports from
reputable sources use terms interchangably.

Agreed.

Also of note is that AOC is all pro-immigration until the Mayor of NYC proposes moving some of their illegal/asylum-seeking population into her district. It is all OK so long as they are down in Texas or Arizona or somewhere. Not so much when they might upset her constituents.

I have heard varying opinions on this. In particular, the cities to which the migrants are being bussed are happy to receive them, provided that they are notified beforehand. However, Abbott (in Texas) and DeSantis (in Florida)
have taken to busing migrant to other states/cities *without* prior notification and, needless to say, the receiving cities are not happy about this, a reaction which Abbott and DeSantis would like everyone to believe is due to the arrival of the migrants, but which is in fact in response to the lack of prior notice, and they're doing this on purpose. It's worth noting
that some of these migrants are being lied to about their destination(s).

Jeff.

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On 08 Oct 2022, Aaron Thomas said the following...

To the everyday person, that is confusing when news reports from reputable sources use terms interchangably.

I'm not that everyday person though. I clearly said "2 million
illegals," and then Jeff mistakenly (insanely) took that as a cue to say "Illegals and refugees are not the same."

What is your evidence of two million illegal immigrants having crossed the border without being caught?

Jeff.

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I have heard varying opinions on this. In particular, the cities to
which the migrants are being bussed are happy to receive them, provided that they are notified beforehand. However, Abbott (in Texas) and
DeSantis (in Florida) have taken to busing migrant to other
states/cities *without* prior notification and, needless to say, the receiving cities are not happy about this, a reaction which Abbott and

That was a slimeball narrative for them to use at first, but at this point
they have been on notice for weeks already (maybe a month.) More are coming, keep an eye on your elderly and their jewelry, and show some hospitality when they arrive. And don't complain to Abbott or DeSantis because HELLO? you already are on notice.

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What is your evidence of two million illegal immigrants having crossed
the border without being caught?

(Minor correction: 660,000 for sure gotaways in 1 year according to CBS News)

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On 09 Oct 2022, Aaron Thomas said the following...

I have heard varying opinions on this. In particular, the cities to which the migrants are being bussed are happy to receive them, provid that they are notified beforehand. However, Abbott (in Texas) and DeSantis (in Florida) have taken to busing migrant to other states/cities *without* prior notification and, needless to say, the receiving cities are not happy about this, a reaction which Abbott an

That was a slimeball narrative for them to use at first, but at this
point they have been on notice for weeks already (maybe a month.) More
are coming, keep an eye on your elderly and their jewelry, and show some hospitality when they arrive. And don't complain to Abbott or DeSantis because HELLO? you already are on notice.

They want coordination. Dates, times, locations, numbers of people, etc. A general notice doesn't suffice.

Jeff.

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On 09 Oct 2022, Aaron Thomas said the following...

What is your evidence of two million illegal immigrants having crosse the border without being caught?

(Minor correction: 660,000 for sure gotaways in 1 year according to CBS News)

And how do they know this? (Also, that "minor correction" represented about a 67% decrease in the number of illegal immigrants you're claiming successfully cross the border each year.)

Nevertheless, I do agree that the people who do indeed enter the country illegally should be dealt with according to the law.

Jeff.

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I'm not that everyday person though. I clearly said "2 million illegals," and then Jeff mistakenly (insanely) took that as a cue to say "Illegals and refugees are not the same."

If you post here about "illegals" you will always cue that song up. :)


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Supposedly they are not. However, if you watch the news (not FOX news, but local news) and hear what the reporters say, or hear what folks like the Mayor of NYC and others are saying, they use the words "illegal" sometimes, even when discussing migrants who are being moved around by the federal government, i.e. ones that have already encountered multiple government officials.

That, as I've discussed elsewhere, is careless at best and dishonest at worst, on the part of the media.

And even some politicians who are from the party that supposedly knows
better.

Also of note is that AOC is all pro-immigration until the Mayor of NYC proposes moving some of their illegal/asylum-seeking population into her district. It is all OK so long as they are down in Texas or Arizona or somewhere. Not so much when they might upset her constituents.

I have heard varying opinions on this. In particular, the cities to which the migrants are being bussed are happy to receive them, provided that they are notified beforehand. However, Abbott (in Texas) and DeSantis (in Florida) have taken to busing migrant to other states/cities *without* prior notification and, needless to say, the receiving cities are not happy about this, a reaction which Abbott and DeSantis would like everyone to believe is due to the arrival of the migrants, but which is in fact in response to the lack of prior notice, and they're doing this on purpose. It's worth noting that some of these migrants are being lied to about their destination(s).

The story I saw did not distinguish between the Federal migrated migrants
and the DeSantis/Abbott migrants. Of note, Chicago's Mayor Lightfoot
chastized Abbott for sending migrants to her city without notification or coordination. Then those same migrants were put on a bus and sent to a
hotel in a city just outside of Chicago's jurisdiction... without
notification or coordination with that city's government.

If I were a government official in a border area that was being overwhelmed
by migrants, and was being told by politicians far from the border that my voiced concerns were "wrong/insenstive/etc.," it would be tempting to do exactly what Abbott has done.


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No one counts crossings. The Border Patrol counts "encounters." Additionally, multiple encounters can be with the same individual(s). That the media, and especially conservative media, tries to present the Border Patrol's statistics on encounters into statistics on crossings is careless at best, dishonest at worst.

If you have multiple encounters with the same individual, wouldn't that
likely indicate that this person also crossed more than once, i.e. if they encounter John Doe 5 times, that would likely mean he crossed (and was sent back) 5 times?

If that correlation is not close to equal, I would suggest they are overcounting their encounters.


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On 09 Oct 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

No one counts crossings. The Border Patrol counts "encounters." Addition multiple encounters can be with the same individual(s). That the media, especially conservative media, tries to present the Border Patrol's statistics on encounters into statistics on crossings is careless at bes dishonest at worst.

If you have multiple encounters with the same individual, wouldn't that likely indicate that this person also crossed more than once, i.e. if
they encounter John Doe 5 times, that would likely mean he crossed (and was sent back) 5 times?

Presumably, yes.

If that correlation is not close to equal, I would suggest they are overcounting their encounters.

They would only be overcounting encounters if your definition of an
"encounter" is different from theirs, which it appears to be. That is even
more reason not to equate "encounters" with "crossings."

Jeff.

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because HELLO? you already are on notice.

They want coordination. Dates, times, locations, numbers of people, etc.
A general notice doesn't suffice.

Gov Abbott would also like dates, times, locations, and numbers of people. Can you ask Joe to contact his friends from the cartels, so that this information can be obtained as early as possible?

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On 09 Oct 2022, Aaron Thomas said the following...

because HELLO? you already are on notice.

They want coordination. Dates, times, locations, numbers of people, e A general notice doesn't suffice.

Gov Abbott would also like dates, times, locations, and numbers of
people. Can you ask Joe to contact his friends from the cartels, so that this information can be obtained as early as possible?

The cartels aren't behind refugee asylum requests.

However, apparently we can see these migrants approaching before they arrive, and get a decent estimate of their numbers and expected arrival date.

Jeff.

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If you have multiple encounters with the same individual, wouldn't that likely indicate that this person also crossed more than once, i.e. if they encounter John Doe 5 times, that would likely mean he crossed (and was sent back) 5 times?

Presumably, yes.

If that correlation is not close to equal, I would suggest they are overcounting their encounters.

They would only be overcounting encounters if your definition of an "encounter" is different from theirs, which it appears to be. That is even more reason not to equate "encounters" with "crossings."

You come to contradictory conclusions here. You see that, right?

Just to be sure... you agree that my definition of "encounter" is
"presumably" correct in regards to how they would count encounters, but then say that my definition must be different than theirs.

If they are doing as claimed, and sending illegals back, if they encounter
them more than once, said illegal is crossing more than once.

What I was getting at is that, if what I said at the top here is true, and
you agreed was "presumably" so, then encounters should equate, or at least
have a very close correlation to, crossings. That makes me wonder why you
were claiming there is a difference, or what you think the difference must
be.

The only way they'd not have a close corelation would be if the illegals
are indeed crossing and not encountering an agent in large enough numbers
for it to matter. Aaron and others do think this is true, and I may be
wrong, but I am thinking that you don't. So, if they are wrong, the
numbers should be nearly the same.


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On 10 Oct 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

If that correlation is not close to equal, I would suggest they are overcounting their encounters.

They would only be overcounting encounters if your definition of an "encounter" is different from theirs, which it appears to be. That is ev more reason not to equate "encounters" with "crossings."

You come to contradictory conclusions here. You see that, right?
Just to be sure... you agree that my definition of "encounter" is "presumably" correct in regards to how they would count encounters, but then say that my definition must be different than theirs.

I may have misunderstood what you were saying.

If they are doing as claimed, and sending illegals back, if they
encounter them more than once, said illegal is crossing more than once.

True.

What I was getting at is that, if what I said at the top here is true,
and you agreed was "presumably" so, then encounters should equate, or at least have a very close correlation to, crossings. That makes me wonder why you were claiming there is a difference, or what you think the difference must be.

The difference is that the Border Patrol says that "encounters" are events,
not people. If one attempts to use the "encounter" number as a "people"
number, then one would arrive at an incorrect estimate of the number of
people trying to cross the border.

The only way they'd not have a close corelation would be if the illegals are indeed crossing and not encountering an agent in large enough numbers for it to matter. Aaron and others do think this is true, and I may be wrong, but I am thinking that you don't. So, if they are wrong, the numbers should be nearly the same.

Aaron is potentially confusing the number of encounters (events) with the number of migrants (people) attempting to cross the border.

Jeff.

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Gov Abbott would also like dates, times, locations, and numbers of people. Can you ask Joe to contact his friends from the cartels, so t this information can be obtained as early as possible?

The cartels aren't behind refugee asylum requests.

The bussed migrants are not required to seek asylum.

However, apparently we can see these migrants approaching before they arrive, and get a decent estimate of their numbers and expected arrival date.

That's what I've been trying to tell you. It's funny that now you're saying "apparently" when it wasn't "apparent" to you a few messages back :)

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On 10 Oct 2022, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Gov Abbott would also like dates, times, locations, and numbers people. Can you ask Joe to contact his friends from the cartels, this information can be obtained as early as possible?

The cartels aren't behind refugee asylum requests.

The bussed migrants are not required to seek asylum.

They are allowed to seek asylum, though.

However, apparently we can see these migrants approaching before they arrive, and get a decent estimate of their numbers and expected arriv date.

That's what I've been trying to tell you. It's funny that now you're saying "apparently" when it wasn't "apparent" to you a few messages back :)

However, migrants seeking asylum are not illegal immigrants.

Jeff.

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