Daryl wrote --

I was never more than a mile from home. But, I haven't ridden a bike
in years. There aren't as many sidewalks in my part of town, as there
were in south Florida.

My afternoon route was swell.
I had about 150 customers and the route had a few large apartment
buildings where I got rid of nearly half of them.
Those places were great also in that in the winter I could go inside for
a few minutes to warm up, or get out the rain, etc.
My first route (the morning one here) were all single family dwellings
and outside the whole time.
Most of those houses are still around but now the larger ones have been turned into apartments, a lot of the others are offices and businesses.
Joe
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Joe,

My afternoon route was swell.

So much has changed in the newspaper and periodical publishing
business. The cost of postage and printing (including newsprint) has skyrocketed...while at the same time, the number of subscribers and ads
has plunged.

The Arkansas State Square Dance Federation, in existence since 1949,
started a publication in 1961 called "The Modern Square". When I got
into square dancing in 1985, there were over 1200 print subscribers.
When I took the job as "Circulation Chairman" in 2008, we only had
450...but 10% of those were expired. Now, we don't even have 10% of
that.

One of the former Editors started an e-Edition for free, and folks
went after that one, letting their print subscriptions lapse. It has
been costing us $5 per copy to mail, and more than that to print...and
we had gone from monthly to quarterly publication last year. But, the
board voted last month to go back to monthly, yet REDUCE the size of the publication to a simple tri-fold that we'd print and mail ourselves.
What is not in the new format will be on the website.

I may become the new Editor (to go with my job of Circulation Chairman
and Webmaster), so all that would be on my shoulders. But, they'd
reinburse me for postage (55 cents per copy instead of $5), then for ink
and paper. Yet. for every 10 Reminder Cards I sent out, only 2 came back
for renewal. We may not even have 20 print subscribers to start 2020. So
much for adhering to the acronym N.A.V.Y. -- N)ever A)gain V)olunteer Y)ourself. <G> But, I never get lost anymore, as everyone tells me where
to go (LOL).

At one time, Little Rock had 2 newspapers. The first one, the Arkansas Gazette, was the oldest newspaper west of the Mississippi River. It got
into a newspaper war, and was bought out by the Arkansas Democrat. The
paper was renamed to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.

Yet, the costs of postage and printing (and newsprint) and the decline
in subscribers and ads, has gotten them too. So much so, that they
apparently are going to print on Sunday only, and go e-Edition the rest
of the way. But, apparently the only way you can get to view the
e-Edition would be to use a specially made iPad...and you'd have to pay
$8 per Sunday (the only day it'd be printed), which equals $32 to $40 a
month, nearly $500 a year.

I get the e-Edition of The Miami Herald from south Florida (my old
stomping grounds), with everything for $50 a year. It doesn't take a
rocket scientist to see which one I'm going with. I'm sure most people
will tell them what they can do with their newspaper. In fact, in
Nashville, Tennessee...the Nashvile Banner no longer exists. The main
paper is now The Tennesseean...published in Knoxville, 2 hours away.

Daryl

===
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Daryl wrote --

So much has changed in the newspaper and periodical publishing
business. The cost of postage and printing (including newsprint) has skyrocketed...while at the same time, the number of subscribers and ads
has plunged.

At one time we had two papers here, a morning (Herald Dispatch, Democrat)
and afternoon (Advertiser, Republican). While they were owned by the same local company they were competitive.
In the early '70s the Advertiser, with fewer and fewer sales, was merged
with the Herald Dispatch and only one daily, mornings.
With no competition quality soon dropped.
In addition local ownership was sold to national chains and has changed
hands many times.
A few years they experimented with a free online edition with only the headlines and maybe the first paragraph.
Over time that evolved to a online edition of the whole paper and now
cost about $100 a year. No more five or six free stories before one had to subscribe. Now one has to pay to read it, other than one or two stories. (I used to read it blind or delete th
One can read it with headlines or as a e-copy of the print paper in
layout.
They recently dropped the print Monday paper, which was always worthless.
I saw the Tuesday edition that morning and for 75 cents a copy there was nothing in it. Took about two or three minutes to read the local news.
But there are a lot of other places to get ones news both local and otherwise.
Joe
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Joe,

Over time that evolved to a online edition of the whole paper and now
cost about $100 a year. No more five or six free stories before one had to JM>subscribe. Now one has to pay to read it, other than one or two stories.

Most online papers now require you to subscribe to read a story.
What's worse is if you have an ad blocker in your browser, they raise
cane. Well, if a website gets infected by malware, especially in an ad,
I don't want that infecting my computer.

Yet, there are still a surprising number of people don't have, can't
get, or don't want, a computer, or internet access. But, if you don't
get on board the technology train at the depot, you're going to be left
behind in the dust!! The rising costs of postage and printing, combined
with the decline of subscriptions and ads, has forced many publications
and newspapers, to go online only, or shut down altogether.

Daryl

===
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Daryl wrote --

Most online papers now require you to subscribe to read a story.

I hate it when reading a headline news site and click the link for the
story and getting the msg one has to to subscribe to read it. Why even have the link?

What's worse is if you have an ad blocker in your browser, they raise
cane.

Some sites will block out half the screen, but one can scroll down a bit
to read the story. Its just annoying.

Yet, there are still a surprising number of people don't have, can't
get, or don't want, a computer, or internet access.

Some people are just Luddites.
There were people in the 1040s who never had a radio* and people as late
as the '60s who didn't own/want a tv. (Now not having a tv today is a sign
of rebellion. I don't have one any longer and don't want one. I am happy
with stuff I can get on the net).
(* Fred Allen once in Allen's Alley was interviewing Titus Moody, the
Yankee farmer, about radio and Moody replied he didn't have a radio, he didn't take to furniture talking to him).

The rising costs of postage and printing, combined
with the decline of subscriptions and ads, has forced many publications
and newspapers, to go online only, or shut down altogether.

I actually prefer not having a hard copy to make more trash, clutter
things up, etc.
Of course going completely online could cause problems with people being unable to line their bird cages. :)
The only thing our local rag is good for is lining bird cages. :)
Joe
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Joe,

I hate it when reading a headline news site and click the link for the
story and getting the msg one has to to subscribe to read it. Why even have
the link?

I've wondered that myself.

Some sites will block out half the screen, but one can scroll down a bit
to read the story. Its just annoying.

If I didn't want to read the story, I wouldn't have bothered. It'll be
more expensive to read the online paper in Little Rock for a year, than
it will to do likewise in Miami (my old stomping grounds). I mainly
look at The Miami Herald for the sports.

There were people in the 1040s who never had a radio* and people as late
as the '60s who didn't own/want a tv. (Now not having a tv today is a sign JM>of rebellion. I don't have one any longer and don't want one. I am happy JM>with stuff I can get on the net).

Man, there was some unknown technology that far back!! <BG> I see the
"fat fingers disease" flared up on you again. But, without fat fingers,
how do you pick up the food and the silverware?? <G>

I don't even watch TV...I just have a simple internet only package
from Xfinity.

(* Fred Allen once in Allen's Alley was interviewing Titus Moody, the
Yankee farmer, about radio and Moody replied he didn't have a radio, he didn
take to furniture talking to him).

Really.

I actually prefer not having a hard copy to make more trash, clutter
things up, etc.

That's why I went to the digital only version of the ham radio
publication, QST, from the American Radio Relay League. I may do
likewise with The Modern Square, with the Arkansas State Square Dance Federation....even if may become the new Editor.

Of course going completely online could cause problems with people being
unable to line their bird cages. :)

When I was in silkscreen printing, the regular newsprint was used to
blot the moisture off of the silkscreens after developing them. The waxy
natue of the ads meant that was only "bird cage material".

Daryl


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On 09/09/2019 7:14 a.m., JOE MACKEY : DARYL STOUT wrote:

  (* Fred Allen once in Allen's Alley was interviewing Titus Moody, the Yankee farmer, about radio and Moody replied he didn't have a radio, he didn't take to furniture talking to him).

ROTFL :)

I actually prefer not having a hard copy to make more trash, clutter
things up, etc. Of course going completely online could cause
problems with people being unable to line their bird cages. :) The
only thing our local rag is good for is lining bird cages. :)

I get a weekly pile of "ads" stuffed inside a free copy of a pseudo-local newspaper. The paper works well to line the bottom of the kitchen garbage (to help absorb the wet stuff). But there is still way too much of the ads that I never read.

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August wrote --

I get a weekly pile of "ads" stuffed inside a free copy of a pseudo-local newspaper.

We have one of those here as well. I'll glance through the coupons and that's about it.
Sometimes I'll clip a two-fer, or so much off, or something but more
often than not it expires before I use it.
Joe
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Quoting Daryl Stout to Joe Mackey on 09-08-19 09:35 <=-

Over time that evolved to a online edition of the whole paper and
now cost about $100 a year. No more five or six free stories before
one had to subscribe. Now one has to pay to read it, other than
one or two stories.

Most online papers now require you to subscribe to read a story.
What's worse is if you have an ad blocker in your browser, they raise cane. Well, if a website gets infected by malware, especially in an
ad, I don't want that infecting my computer.

I don't have an ad blocker per se in my browser.... it's just a text
browser, though, so I can tell what things are before "clicking" on
them (in my case, it would be pressing [enter])...

Yet, there are still a surprising number of people don't have, can't
get, or don't want, a computer, or internet access. But, if you don't
get on board the technology train at the depot, you're going to be
left behind in the dust!! The rising costs of postage and printing, combined with the decline of subscriptions and ads, has forced many publications and newspapers, to go online only, or shut down
altogether.

Well, I do have the computer, and internet access.... But it still
didn't mean that I wanted to read the paper online... When I was
informed that the price of my (hardcopy) paper was going to double, and
I shouldn't be upset by that because of all the wonderful content on the
web that that included, I ended up cancelling my subscription... My
neighbor, who really did find the paper important, was even worse hit by
that, as she was one that didn't have any computer, and wasn't likely to
get one.... She was also on a very limited fixed income, and they'd
priced the paper out of her reach....

ttyl neb

... Don't panic... Don't panic... all right, NOW PANIC!!!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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Nancy,

I don't have an ad blocker per se in my browser.... it's just a text NB>browser, though, so I can tell what things are before "clicking" on
them (in my case, it would be pressing [enter])...

I didn't think a text browser existed. One of the "themes" for the
Opera Web Browser years ago, was just a black and white regular ascii
text border deal, patterned after MS-DOS. In the past, I've used
Netscape, Internet Explorer (barf!), Opera, Chrome, and Firefox. Firefox
loads faster than Chrome, but Firefox kept crashing on Facebook,
especially when I needed to make a long post.

Well, I do have the computer, and internet access.... But it still
didn't mean that I wanted to read the paper online... When I was
informed that the price of my (hardcopy) paper was going to double, and
I shouldn't be upset by that because of all the wonderful content on the NB>web that that included, I ended up cancelling my subscription... My NB>neighbor, who really did find the paper important, was even worse hit by NB>that, as she was one that didn't have any computer, and wasn't likely to NB>get one.... She was also on a very limited fixed income, and they'd NB>priced the paper out of her reach....

Well, that's what's going to happen with the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
in Little Rock, from what I understand. They're already touting "the new
news is here"...but folks aren't going to spend $8 a copy on Sunday
only ($32-$40 a month), just to get the required iPad to read the paper otherwise. I think most will cancel their subscriptions.

Yet, the rising cost of postage and printing (it's 55 cents for a
first class stamp, and it increases every year), and the massive decline
in subscribers and ads, have forced many publications to go online only,
or shut down altogether.

If folks can get something for nothing (so much for TANSTAAFL from
Rober Heinlein), they'll do it. Yet, to read a story online, you have to purchase a subscription to practically every paper now. Or, they bombard
you with ads, and chide you for having an ad blocker enabled. I don't
have to wade through the haystack to find the needle of a news story I'm interested in.

Cost wise, I can view The Miami Herald from south Florida (my old
stomping grounds) for $50 a year, e-Edition only...and that's the entire
paper. I mainly follow the University Of Miami, my late father's alma
mater, in their sports department...but will read some local area
stories on occasion.

Apparently in Little Rock, you can't get the e-Edition only...you have
to take the print edition one day a week, and I'll bet a dollar to a
dozen chocolate iced donuts that many will tell them what they can do
with their paper (and it's not appropriate for this echo :P ).

Darn, now I have a craving for chocolate iced donuts!! :P

Daryl


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Re: Re: Paper route
By: Daryl Stout to NANCY BACKUS on Sun Sep 15 2019 12:58 pm

Text browsers certainly do exist today. I have been using one on and off on my Linux Mint desktop computer for a while. While it is certainly nostalgic to use
a text based browser, there is also a beautiful simplicity in just getting the information you seek and none of the other garbage that the "world wide web" has become.

I also tend to enjoy word processing in the terminal. Again, simple and not distracting.
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Re: Re: Paper route
By: uv5r to Daryl Stout on Wed Sep 18 2019 04:51 pm

Updated my signature after I realized it didn;t post my "name".

---Steven

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Quoting Daryl Stout to Nancy Backus on 09-15-19 13:03 <=-

I don't have an ad blocker per se in my browser.... it's just a text
browser, though, so I can tell what things are before "clicking" on
them (in my case, it would be pressing [enter])...

I didn't think a text browser existed.

It still does... I use Lynx, and there is also Links, both are text
browsers, and at least the first works quite well in DOS... both come
out of the *nix environment...

One of the "themes" for the
Opera Web Browser years ago, was just a black and white regular ascii
text border deal, patterned after MS-DOS. In the past, I've used
Netscape, Internet Explorer (barf!), Opera, Chrome, and Firefox.
Firefox loads faster than Chrome, but Firefox kept crashing on
Facebook, especially when I needed to make a long post.

Richard uses SlimJet which is a stripped down version of Chrome, if I understand correctly... I've used that on his Windows machine when I
have to access the health care portals, or get my digital coupons
clipped on the Wegmans site....

Well, I do have the computer, and internet access.... But it still
didn't mean that I wanted to read the paper online... When I was
informed that the price of my (hardcopy) paper was going to double, and
I shouldn't be upset by that because of all the wonderful content on
the web that that included, I ended up cancelling my subscription... My
neighbor, who really did find the paper important, was even worse hit by
that, as she was one that didn't have any computer, and wasn't likely to
get one.... She was also on a very limited fixed income, and they'd
priced the paper out of her reach....

Well, that's what's going to happen with the Arkansas
Democrat-Gazette in Little Rock, from what I understand. They're
already touting "the new news is here"...but folks aren't going to
spend $8 a copy on Sunday only ($32-$40 a month), just to get the
required iPad to read the paper otherwise. I think most will cancel
their subscriptions.

Required iPad...? That would sour the deal from the get-go...

Yet, the rising cost of postage and printing (it's 55 cents for a
first class stamp, and it increases every year), and the massive
decline in subscribers and ads, have forced many publications to go
online only, or shut down altogether.

I pay an extra $10 a year for one of my genealogy memberships so that
they will send me the newsletter in the mail instead of electronically.

If folks can get something for nothing (so much for TANSTAAFL from
Robert Heinlein), they'll do it. Yet, to read a story online, you have
to purchase a subscription to practically every paper now. Or, they bombard you with ads, and chide you for having an ad blocker enabled. I don't have to wade through the haystack to find the needle of a news
story I'm interested in.

I've read the occasional story online, where someone has sent me a
direct link to that story... that I can handle with my text browser...
and that lets me in without a subscription...

Apparently in Little Rock, you can't get the e-Edition only...you
have to take the print edition one day a week, and I'll bet a dollar to
a dozen chocolate iced donuts that many will tell them what they can do with their paper (and it's not appropriate for this echo :P ).
Darn, now I have a craving for chocolate iced donuts!! :P

Can't imagine why... <G>

ttyl neb

... Friendship brightens every corner of the world.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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Nancy,

I didn't think a text browser existed.

It still does... I use Lynx, and there is also Links, both are text NB>browsers, and at least the first works quite well in DOS... both come
out of the *nix environment...

Interesting. I've been busy getting a new square dance website up,
that I haven't had much time to investigate. Then, we've also had
thunderstorms with much needed rainfall...so, that means little to no
computer or BBS work.

Richard uses SlimJet which is a stripped down version of Chrome, if I NB>understand correctly... I've used that on his Windows machine when I
have to access the health care portals, or get my digital coupons
clipped on the Wegmans site....

Never heard of that one.

Required iPad...? That would sour the deal from the get-go...

That's what I understand. Why would they charge so much for the Sunday
paper otherwise?? I talked to a couple of square dancers, and they said
that when they were in New England, a Sunday edition of the Boston Globe
was $6. To me, that's too much for a paper. Yet, without that iPad (if
you can't read it any other way), there's no point in getting a
subscription.

I pay an extra $10 a year for one of my genealogy memberships so that NB>they will send me the newsletter in the mail instead of electronically.

Not many places do that...but I'd be afraid the Post Office would lose
my copy. They've lost several medical bills and payments for me. So,
when I call them, I say that "Either you take an over the phone payment,
or you don't get your money". Why should I pay an extra $25 to $50 or
more to guarantee delivery, then it still doesn't arrive. It's $35 every
time I have to do a stop payment.

I've read the occasional story online, where someone has sent me a
direct link to that story... that I can handle with my text browser... NB>and that lets me in without a subscription...

You don't find many sites that like anymore. You usually get a message
that "you've used up all your free views".

Darn, now I have a craving for chocolate iced donuts!! :P

Can't imagine why... <G>

I knew there was something I forgot to get at the store the other
day!!

Daryl


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Quoting Daryl Stout to Nancy Backus on 09-24-19 14:12 <=-

I didn't think a text browser existed.

It still does... I use Lynx, and there is also Links, both are text
browsers, and at least the first works quite well in DOS... both come
out of the *nix environment...

Interesting. I've been busy getting a new square dance website up,
that I haven't had much time to investigate. Then, we've also had thunderstorms with much needed rainfall...so, that means little to no computer or BBS work.

At least you got some of the rain you needed... :) Once you get the
website up, you could check out Lynx and Links (we call them "the cat"
and "the chain")... One does have to work harder to see any graphic
content of the page, but it saves one from clicking on something one
really doesn't want to be... shows you what it leads to....

Richard uses SlimJet which is a stripped down version of Chrome, if I
understand correctly... I've used that on his Windows machine when I
have to access the health care portals, or get my digital coupons
clipped on the Wegmans site....

Never heard of that one.

Nor had I until he started using it... something else you might want to
look for... :)

Required iPad...? That would sour the deal from the get-go...

That's what I understand. Why would they charge so much for the
Sunday paper otherwise?? I talked to a couple of square dancers, and
they said that when they were in New England, a Sunday edition of the Boston Globe was $6. To me, that's too much for a paper. Yet, without
that iPad (if you can't read it any other way), there's no point in getting a subscription.

I have no interest in paying that sort of money, or in being forced to
read something online, whether on an iPad or a computer screen... I'm
not that addicted to the paper, although I do miss it from time to
time...

I pay an extra $10 a year for one of my genealogy memberships so that
they will send me the newsletter in the mail instead of electronically.

Not many places do that...but I'd be afraid the Post Office would
lose my copy. They've lost several medical bills and payments for me.
So, when I call them, I say that "Either you take an over the phone payment, or you don't get your money". Why should I pay an extra $25 to $50 or more to guarantee delivery, then it still doesn't arrive. It's
$35 every time I have to do a stop payment.

So far, payments and bills haven't gone missing for us, but the
occasional magazine issue has.... so far it's just been replaceable
things... a little more often, they've been delayed, but then they do eventually show up... :)

I've read the occasional story online, where someone has sent me a
direct link to that story... that I can handle with my text browser...
and that lets me in without a subscription...

You don't find many sites that like anymore. You usually get a
message that "you've used up all your free views".

Either I don't do it often enough to run out of free views, or the
direct links I'm given slip by that part of the site... or both....

Darn, now I have a craving for chocolate iced donuts!! :P

Can't imagine why... <G>

I knew there was something I forgot to get at the store the other
day!!

Oh, well... <G>

ttyl neb

... Energizer Bunny still missing. Search party keeps going,

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