• Dynamic IPv6

    From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Fri Feb 22 15:53:07 2019

    *** Answering a msg posted in area FN_SYSOP (International Fido Sysops).

    Hello Tony,

    On Wednesday February 20 2019 08:19, you wrote to me:

    BTW, what do you use for DDNS so other nodes can find you?

    Nothing. Same for IPv4.

    My DNS provider, Euodns has a DDNS servive, but only for IPv4. Ik have used it in the pastm but my IPv4 address only changes when the WAN MAC of my CPE changes, and it has been stable for years now.

    IPv6 is a different story. Oddly enough Euodns does not offer DDNS for IPv6. My Ipv6 prefix is pretty stable as well but it does not seem to be linked to the CPE WAN MAC.

    Ihave a script from another Dutch IPv6 guru that shoukd take care of it but I have not yet come around to adapting it to my needs. Not high on the list of priorities. The IPv6 prefix has only changed thee or four times since I have native IPv6. Up until now Ihave always updated manually.

    Both SixXs and he.net provided excellent and stable services,
    but I never got more than about half the IPv4 download speed on
    my tunnels. The frustrating part is that I never could figure
    out why. Also with the he.net tunnel I was geolocated in the
    USA which caused other problems. Plus the MTU limits.

    Of all the tunnel providers I've used, these two were the best and
    most stable, but at the time I was using tunnels, there were no POPs
    for these providers in Australia, meaning long and highly suboptimal routing. I think that's also your speed issue - the distance between
    the POP and you.

    I doubt that. he.net has a POP on AMS-IX. "Everyone" in The Netherlands is "close" to AMS-IX. ;-)

    The international lonks can't give you your full share of bandwidth.

    Sure. But I do not think that was the problem with my tunnels.

    Try doing a speedtest.net to the USA and see what happens. I haven't tried the USA, but EU from here often only gets a few Mb/s on my
    100/40 connection, which can sustain 80 Mb/s when using a local test server.

    Down under is also slow from here.

    So no, a tunnel with a static address is not better than dynamic
    native. The pros of native exceed the cons of dynamic.

    But native and static beats them all. ;)

    Of course. ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Feb 23 06:37:00 2019
    On 02-22-19 15:53, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Ihave a script from another Dutch IPv6 guru that shoukd take care of it but I have not yet come around to adapting it to my needs. Not high on the list of priorities. The IPv6 prefix has only changed thee or four times since I have native IPv6. Up until now Ihave always updated manually.

    OK, certainly viable at that sort of frequency, though I never leave anything like that to manual if I can avoid it, because of me. :)

    I doubt that. he.net has a POP on AMS-IX. "Everyone" in The Netherlands is "close" to AMS-IX. ;-)

    OK, time to make sure with some ping tests. :D

    Down under is also slow from here.

    Hardly surprising, it's a long way with lots in between. :)

    But native and static beats them all. ;)

    Of course. ;-)

    ;)


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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Sat Feb 23 16:06:50 2019
    Hello Tony,

    On Saturday February 23 2019 06:37, you wrote to me:

    On 02-22-19 15:53, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    only changed thee or four times since I have native IPv6. Up
    until now Ihave always updated manually.

    OK, certainly viable at that sort of frequency, though I never leave anything like that to manual if I can avoid it, because of me. :)

    I have a similar attitude, but I balance the expected effort to get the automation process top run propely against the effort of doing it manually once or twice a year.

    I doubt that. he.net has a POP on AMS-IX. "Everyone" in The
    Netherlands is "close" to AMS-IX. ;-)

    OK, time to make sure with some ping tests. :D

    That of course has been done at the time.


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Feb 24 12:00:00 2019
    On 02-23-19 16:06, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I have a similar attitude, but I balance the expected effort to get the automation process top run propely against the effort of doing it manually once or twice a year.

    When one has suspected ADHD and routine things can fall off the radar, automation and notification are a must! :)

    I doubt that. he.net has a POP on AMS-IX. "Everyone" in The
    Netherlands is "close" to AMS-IX. ;-)

    OK, time to make sure with some ping tests. :D

    That of course has been done at the time.

    And the results of those?


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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Sun Feb 24 11:35:03 2019
    Hello Tony,

    On Sunday February 24 2019 12:00, you wrote to me:

    I have a similar attitude, but I balance the expected effort to
    get the automation process top run propely against the effort of
    doing it manually once or twice a year.

    When one has suspected ADHD and routine things can fall off the radar, automation and notification are a must! :)

    Fortunately I do not have that problem.

    Another thing that puts me off, is that it is difficult to test something that happens only once or twice a year. For IPv4 I know how to provoke an IP change (change the MAC of the WAN interface) for IPv6 I do not know how to provoke a change of prefix.

    I doubt that. he.net has a POP on AMS-IX. "Everyone" in The
    Netherlands is "close" to AMS-IX. ;-)

    OK, time to make sure with some ping tests. :D

    That of course has been done at the time.

    And the results of those?

    Good enough with a large margin to rule that out as the cause of the problem.


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Feb 25 11:46:00 2019
    On 02-24-19 11:35, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    When one has suspected ADHD and routine things can fall off the radar, automation and notification are a must! :)

    Fortunately I do not have that problem.

    That helps! :D

    Another thing that puts me off, is that it is difficult to test
    something that happens only once or twice a year. For IPv4 I know how
    to provoke an IP change (change the MAC of the WAN interface) for IPv6
    I do not know how to provoke a change of prefix.

    Yes, testing can be tricky, but there's always the manual option ig it doesn't work. :)

    And the results of those?

    Good enough with a large margin to rule that out as the cause of the problem.

    No probs, just covering all bases. :)


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  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Feb 25 18:09:08 2019
    On 24.2.2019 10:35, Michiel van der Vlist -> Tony Langdon :

    Another thing that puts me off, is that it is difficult to test
    something that happens only once or twice a year. For IPv4 I know how
    to provoke an IP change (change the MAC of the WAN interface) for
    IPv6 I do not know how to provoke a change of prefix.

    That's interesting. If you fake the MAC address and the IPv4 address changes, how the hell the IPv6 prefix would not change...?

    'Tommi

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Feb 26 11:53:33 2019
    Hello Tommi,

    On Monday February 25 2019 18:09, you wrote to me:

    Another thing that puts me off, is that it is difficult to test
    something that happens only once or twice a year. For IPv4 I know
    how to provoke an IP change (change the MAC of the WAN interface)
    for IPv6 I do not know how to provoke a change of prefix.

    That's interesting. If you fake the MAC address and the IPv4 address changes, how the hell the IPv6 prefix would not change...?

    I can not change the MAC address for the IPv6 router...

    That needs a bit of explaining. My ISP, Ziggo, only provides native IPv6 to non bussines accounts with a very limited set of modem/routers. These modem/routers do not allow changing the MAC address.

    I can have the modem set in bridge mode and use my own router. Then I can change the WAN MAC address. But with the modem/router in bridge mode, I only have IP4.


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Feb 26 12:31:17 2019
    MvdV> I can not change the MAC address for the IPv6 router...

    MvdV> That needs a bit of explaining. My ISP, Ziggo, only provides native IPv6
    MvdV> to non bussines accounts with a very limited set of modem/routers. These
    MvdV> modem/routers do not allow changing the MAC address.

    MvdV> I can have the modem set in bridge mode and use my own router. Then I
    MvdV> can change the WAN MAC address. But with the modem/router in bridge
    MvdV> mode, I only have IP4.

    WOW!

    Whatever happened to the originally free internet? :(

    Yeah we all know by now. As usual, after the pioneers the corporations took over.

    I'm happy to say, that nothing of the above is known to happen here in Sweden.

    The irony of it all, is that Sweden and the Netherlands were the first countries to emerge from the US control of the internet, and Fidonet followed suit.

    And that's the end of my part of this off topic contribution. Sorry Mr. Moderator, it will not happen again. At least for now....


    ..

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  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Feb 26 06:20:40 2019
    Hello Michiel!

    26 Feb 19 11:53, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

    I can not change the MAC address for the IPv6 router...

    That needs a bit of explaining. My ISP, Ziggo, only provides native
    IPv6 to non bussines accounts with a very limited set of
    modem/routers. These modem/routers do not allow changing the MAC
    address.

    I can have the modem set in bridge mode and use my own router. Then I
    can change the WAN MAC address. But with the modem/router in bridge
    mode, I only have IP4.

    Each ISP has their own issues... Here Comcast will not allow a residential account to get a static IP. You have to subscribe to a Business Class plan and use their router/modem combo to get static IP(s). Putting their router in quasi-bridge mode so that you can use your own router (which is something many businesses would want to do) is problematic; some models of their gateway/router devices are known to be unstable or just not work properly at all in quasi-bridge mode. That, coupled with the fact that their tech support folks are not known for quick or efficient service, makes them barely tolerable as an ISP. Unfortunately, their main competitor in this area has their head firmly stuck in the sand as far as IPv6 goes. Last I checked, they had not even gotten as far as applying for IPv6 address space.

    Andrew

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Andrew Leary on Wed Feb 27 08:23:00 2019
    On 02-26-19 06:20, Andrew Leary wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-

    Each ISP has their own issues... Here Comcast will not allow a

    I feel lucky in having a great ISP. I could use any compatible router I wanted
    to for my physical connection, which is VDSL. I pay an extra $10/month for the
    "Power Pack" option, which includes a static IPv4 and IPv6 prefix (among other additions). There is a "business" level, which adds priority tech support and the option of a /29 on IPv4, but I have no need to go to this level.


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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Sun Mar 3 11:13:44 2019
    Hello Bj”rn,

    On Tuesday February 26 2019 12:31, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> I can have the modem set in bridge mode and use my own router.
    MvdV>> Then I can change the WAN MAC address. But with the
    MvdV>> modem/router in bridge mode, I only have IP4.

    WOW!

    Whatever happened to the originally free internet? :(

    Maybe I was not clear. They are not blocking anything. I can still run a tunnel. What I meant was that with the modem/router in bridge mode, I do not have NATIVE IPv6.

    They are bloody slow, but ther ARE roling out native IPv6. For now only for a limited set of modem/routers. But ther are moving...

    Yeah we all know by now. As usual, after the pioneers the
    corporations took over.

    I'm happy to say, that nothing of the above is known to happen here
    in Sweden.

    It is my understanding that you can not have native IPv6 at your place from ANY provider. I can have native IPv6. Under certain conditions and with some linmitations. Yoiu can;t have it, Period. So what is not happening in Sweden that is happening in The Netherlands?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Andrew Leary on Sun Mar 3 11:25:17 2019
    Hello Andrew,

    On Tuesday February 26 2019 06:20, you wrote to me:

    I can have the modem set in bridge mode and use my own router.
    Then I can change the WAN MAC address. But with the modem/router
    in bridge mode, I only have IP4.

    Each ISP has their own issues... Here Comcast will not allow a residential account to get a static IP. You have to subscribe to a Business Class plan and use their router/modem combo to get static
    IP(s).

    Same here for Ziggo. For static IPs you need a bussiness Pro subscription. At a price... Not an option for a private peson. Fortunately their "dynamic IPs" are pretty static...

    Putting their router in quasi-bridge mode so that you can use
    your own router (which is something many businesses would want to do)
    is problematic; some models of their gateway/router devices are known
    to be unstable or just not work properly at all in quasi-bridge mode.

    I have not heard of such problems here yet...

    That, coupled with the fact that their tech support folks are not
    known for quick or efficient service, makes them barely tolerable as
    an ISP. Unfortunately, their main competitor in this area has their
    head firmly stuck in the sand as far as IPv6 goes. Last I checked,
    they had not even gotten as far as applying for IPv6 address space.

    WOW... :(


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Sun Mar 3 11:50:42 2019
    Hello Tony,

    On Wednesday February 27 2019 08:23, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

    I feel lucky in having a great ISP. I could use any compatible router
    I wanted to for my physical connection, which is VDSL.

    There is an EU directive that forbids ISPs to force their equipment on customers. Some countries such as Germany have already implemented it. Here in The Netherlands the big ISPs are still dragging their feet. Now the argument is where the ISP's network ends and the customers network starts. The cable boys are now trying to twist is so that the modem part is "their" part of the network and the router is part of the customer's network. That way they can still demand that the customer use their modem but can have its own router. The tweakers want their own modem as well. The jury is still out on that issue...

    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Mar 3 15:21:00 2019
    Good ${greeting_time}, Michiel!

    03 Mar 2019 11:50:42, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

    I feel lucky in having a great ISP. I could use any compatible
    router I wanted to for my physical connection, which is VDSL.
    MvdV> There is an EU directive that forbids ISPs to force their
    MvdV> equipment on customers. Some countries such as Germany have
    MvdV> already implemented it. Here in The Netherlands the big ISPs
    MvdV> are still dragging their feet. Now the argument is where the
    MvdV> ISP's network ends and the customers network starts.

    We had similar discussion ca. 2007, and the result was "the jack on a cable belongs to the ISP, the socket on a network device belongs to the customer".

    MvdV> The cable boys are now trying to twist is so that the modem
    MvdV> part is "their" part of the network and the router is part of
    MvdV> the customer's network.

    That's correct: their equipment converts *DSL or optical link to the copper ethernet, and there's the ISP's ethernet cable between the ISP's converter and the customer's router.

    MvdV> That way they can still demand that the customer use their modem
    MvdV> but can have its own router. The tweakers want their own modem
    MvdV> as well. The jury is still out on that issue...

    So the modem _must_ be just a bridge - it _must_ _not_ be a router.


    --
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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Mar 3 17:23:20 2019
    MvdV> It is my understanding that you can not have native IPv6 at your place
    MvdV> from ANY provider.

    I have about 15 ISP to chose from. At least three (that I know of) offers native IPv6.



    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Sun Mar 3 18:25:13 2019
    Hello Bj”rn,

    On Sunday March 03 2019 17:23, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> It is my understanding that you can not have native IPv6 at
    MvdV>> your place from ANY provider.

    I have about 15 ISP to chose from. At least three (that I know of) offers native IPv6.

    Then my information is outdated. Last time asked you said that none of the providers on your fibre did IPv6. Mea Culpa.

    But.... if you now can have native IPv6, why don't you? Why still use a tunnel?


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Mar 3 19:35:50 2019
    MvdV> But.... if you now can have native IPv6, why don't you? Why still use a
    MvdV> tunnel?

    Because IPv6 is not my most important criteria when choosing ISP. I'm quite satisfied with my tunnel for now.



    ..

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  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Mar 3 20:42:40 2019
    On 3.3.2019 17:25, Michiel van der Vlist -> Bj”rn Felten :

    But.... if you now can have native IPv6, why don't you? Why still use
    a tunnel?

    It may be hard for you to understand, but some people can do fine even
    without ipv6. :)

    'Tommi

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  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Björn Felten on Sun Mar 3 20:43:14 2019

    Because IPv6 is not my most important criteria when choosing ISP.
    I'm quite satisfied with my tunnel for now.

    +1

    'Tommi

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Mar 4 17:17:00 2019
    On 03-03-19 11:50, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    There is an EU directive that forbids ISPs to force their equipment on

    While not relevant to me (long way from EU ;) ), this discussion is
    nteresting.

    customers. Some countries such as Germany have already implemented it. Here in The Netherlands the big ISPs are still dragging their feet. Now the argument is where the ISP's network ends and the customers network starts. The cable boys are now trying to twist is so that the modem
    part is "their" part of the network and the router is part of the customer's network. That way they can still demand that the customer
    use their modem but can have its own router. The tweakers want their
    own modem as well. The jury is still out on that issue...

    That does raise some good questions - where does the ISP's network end and the customer's start? In Australia, at the physical level, the ISP's network now doesn't go anywhere near the premises, because the last mile is carried by the NBN infrastructure, which is currently owned by a government owned entity. Even before the NBN, in many cases, a different telco owned the DSLAM and copper lines to the ISP. Now, if the ISP owns the infrastructure (cable, etc in many countries), then which side of the divide is the modem on? And does it
    depend on who purched the modem?

    But logically, one could argue that the ISP's network starts at the device which does the login (over PPPoE or whatever). Looks like this is one for the courts to resolve.


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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Tony Langdon on Mon Mar 4 09:41:58 2019
    There is an EU directive that forbids ISPs to force their equipment
    on

    While not relevant to me (long way from EU ;) ), this discussion is nteresting.

    You bow to the Queen, that's enough for me ... :-)

    That does raise some good questions - where does the ISP's network end
    and the customer's start?

    Interesting subject as there's talk in the UN to include the free access to telecommunication (as in "unobstructed by tribal warfare", not intending to be "for free") into the universal declaration of human rights ...

    \%/@rd

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Ward Dossche on Mon Mar 4 20:22:00 2019
    On 03-04-19 09:41, Ward Dossche wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    You bow to the Queen, that's enough for me ... :-)

    Haha good point. :)

    That does raise some good questions - where does the ISP's network end
    and the customer's start?

    Interesting subject as there's talk in the UN to include the free
    access to telecommunication (as in "unobstructed by tribal warfare",
    not intending to be "for free") into the universal declaration of human rights ...

    Now that's interesting. I wonder how the UN will word that.


    ... Ya know, some days life is just one non sequitur after catfish.
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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to All on Mon Mar 4 11:15:20 2019
    Hello All,

    On Monday March 04 2019 20:22, Tony Langdon wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Interesting subject as there's talk in the UN to include the free
    access to telecommunication (as in "unobstructed by tribal
    warfare", not intending to be "for free") into the universal
    declaration of human rights ...

    Now that's interesting. I wonder how the UN will word that.

    Interesting indeed. But how is it related to IPv6? If there is no relation, we are drifting too far from the topic of this area...


    Cheers, Michiel

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