• What happened?

    From Charles Pierson@2:240/1120.976 to All on Sun Nov 15 11:40:55 2020
    Hello, All.

    I'm sitting here reading various conversations around the echos, some of which I've participated in, some that I haven't.

    There is a range of topics involved, and I'm not going tp get into specifics here. Most of them, if you get to the heart of it pretty much break down to people trying something different. And other people not liking it.

    That's perfectly fine. Not everyone is going to like the same things that everyone else likes. We're human beings. We all have our own opinions and our own preferences. We aren't cardboard cut outs of each other.

    But what I'm not understanding is people's resistance to something new here.

    The Fidonet community, and the wider BBS world, has always been to me a group of people who celebrated new things.

    New software, new hardware, new technology, new program languages, someone somewhere would try it, and see if it could be adapted for our community. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But ordinarily people gave it a chance to see how it worked out, offering suggestions they thought might make it better.

    Now it seems that people are more stuck in the idea that new is a bad thing. You try something new, or even express an idea of something new, people's reaction is "why?"

    It's like people think something new will somehow invalidate almost 40 years of BBS history. Instead, I would hope that they could see that it's a celebration of that history, and showing that it is still relevant in the modern world, and very much still has something to offer.

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (2:240/1120.976)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Charles Pierson on Sun Nov 15 13:33:18 2020
    On 15 Nov 20 11:40:55, Charles Pierson said the following to All:

    But what I'm not understanding is people's resistance to something new her

    The Fidonet community, and the wider BBS world, has always been to me a
    gro
    of people who celebrated new things.

    Fidonet Sysops tend to celebrate new things when they are directly beneficial to Fidonet on its own merit and technical ability. Fidonet Sysops do not celebrate things which potentially take away that unique close-knit nature.

    When its a new communications protocol like BinkD or mobile app like
    Hotdoged or software that directly benefits Fidonet/BBS'ing ie. Mystic and Synchronet, it is most certainly celebrated and embraced.

    When its a questionable Internet platform like Telegram that does not directly benefit Fidonet aside from making moderators nervous about some hack job to allow the platform to exchange Echomail, its not celebrated as much.

    Ask a veteran BBS Sysop why even have Echomail anymore when Usenet groups are more widely available with better features and arguably better software.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:229/426.67 to Nick Andre on Sun Nov 15 13:35:23 2020
    Hello, Nick Andre.
    On 11/15/20 1:33 PM you wrote:

    The Fidonet community, and the wider BBS world, has always been
    to me a gro of people who celebrated new things.
    Fidonet Sysops tend to celebrate new things when they are directly beneficial to Fidonet on its own merit and technical ability.
    Fidonet Sysops do not celebrate things which potentially take
    away that unique close-knit nature.

    That's perfectly understandable. And not something I'm entirely in disagreement with.

    When its a new communications protocol like BinkD or mobile app
    like Hotdoged or software that directly benefits Fidonet/BBS'ing
    ie. Mystic and Synchronet, it is most certainly celebrated and
    embraced.

    Generally speaking, I would agree. Although I have mentioned expanding mobile access in ways, such as QWK or similar offline readers, or even a potential BBS package in places, and at best, I've seen indifference, usually it's more common to be asked why I would want such a thing.
    A few people have commented on potential issues technically, but not many.

    When its a questionable Internet platform like Telegram that does
    not directly benefit Fidonet aside from making moderators nervous
    about some hack job to allow the platform to exchange Echomail,
    its not celebrated as much.

    From what I understand, it's discussed with the moderator and their approval is given before any echo is linked, as is Fidonet policy.

    There are admins on the Telegram side to keep out the spammers/junk posters.

    It's a way to be able to participate in some echos while you aren't at your primary system. Potentially, it could allow people to see Fidonet for what it can offer, introducing them to the community, while educating them on more standard BBS style software and how to use it.

    By the way, my original message wasn't specifically only about Telegram.

    Ask a veteran BBS Sysop why even have Echomail anymore when Usenet
    groups are more widely available with better features and arguably
    better software.

    I've always preferred echomail to Usenet, although the systems that offer nntp feeds of Fidonet or othernets are convenient.

    In the particular case for Telegram, I can see upsides and downsides for it. I've made cases both ways about different ideas involved with it.

    I'm not even considering replacing anything. I'm saying some people had an idea to supplement their Echomail access. They are trying it out. If it works, and doesn't hurt regular Echomail operations, where is the harm?
    If it doesn't work, it will fade to a memory like other things have before.

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:229/426.67)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Charles Pierson on Sun Nov 15 15:37:26 2020
    On 15 Nov 20 13:35:23, Charles Pierson said the following to Nick Andre:

    Generally speaking, I would agree. Although I have mentioned expanding
    mobi
    access in ways, such as QWK or similar offline readers, or even a
    potential
    BBS package in places, and at best, I've seen indifference, usually it's
    mo
    common to be asked why I would want such a thing.

    I'm not disagreeing but have yet to see anyone not embrace another QWK or BBS package. Most Sysops love tinkering with new BBS-related things. Every time a new version of Mystic, Synchronet or my mailer D'Bridge is published, Sysops just can't *wait* to get their hands on it.

    But again, Fido Sysops are usually reluctant to have any Internet platform integrate with Fidonet. Doesn't matter if it has admins blocking spam or whatever. Some Sysops just don't like it. Some don't even like having Echomail being made available on someone's web server for Google searching. Theres just something about wanting to keep it close-knit and away from Internet platforms and search engines. And BBS Sysops *love* their setups. They find something and stick with. You will pry D'Bridge and Renegade from my cold dead hands.

    I know you didn't mention Telegram but its kindof the same reason why we don't use NNTP for Echomail distribution or distributed DNS or XML-formatted
    nodelist segments or embedded graphics and links in messages or whatever
    bright ideas are mentioned every few years or so in this echo and elsewhere.

    Its also why UTF-8 is a disaster and even getting an idea as to whats "standard" in Fidonet requires a lot of digging around a mess of FTSC documents. As a Fido developer I can tell you its not easy writing Fido software. Kludges and tacked-on illogical crap like MSGID/REPLY nonsense, abandonware being used by many Sysops that strips Seen-by lines and generally a bunch of bandaids upon bandaids to keep it going. Thats to say nothing about the upcoming 2038 date problem.

    Every couple of years, someone such as yourself will ponder here or
    elsewhere why new ideas are often rejected or why its difficult to attract newcomers. Simple answer is if Sysops want the Internet, they use the
    Internet. Sysops love their software, its personal to them.

    And Fido software itself is just too "techie" for the average person. To get a node number, a newcomer must agree to a slew of things in Policy 4. You try explaining that to a non-techie person, about mailers and editors and nodelists. Not happening my friend.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 16 00:00:08 2020
    Hi, Nick!

    15 ноя 20 13:33, Nick Andre -> Charles Pierson:

    When its a questionable Internet platform like Telegram that does not directly benefit Fidonet aside from making moderators nervous about
    some hack job to allow the platform to exchange Echomail, its not celebrated as much.

    What hacker attacks from telegrams are you talking about?
    Today there are two _open_ groups in telegrams corresponding to two Fido echo conferences, and in none of them anything like this happens. I'm not saying that black and white lists will be added in the near future.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Кто не любит вина, женщин и песен, так дypаком и yмpет!
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Stas Mishchenkov on Sun Nov 15 16:24:13 2020
    On 16 Nov 20 00:00:08, Stas Mishchenkov said the following to Nick Andre:

    When its a questionable Internet platform like Telegram that does not directly benefit Fidonet aside from making moderators nervous about some hack job to allow the platform to exchange Echomail, its not celebrated as much.

    What hacker attacks from telegrams are you talking about?
    Today there are two _open_ groups in telegrams corresponding to two Fido
    ec
    conferences, and in none of them anything like this happens. I'm not
    saying
    that black and white lists will be added in the near future.

    I didn't say hacker attempts. Read again. I said that the Telegram integration is a hack job to make it work. Its not reinventing anything or even remotely innovative and adds yet more kludge nonsense to messages, makes moderators nervous and has people Netmailing me about this "Telegram bullshit" even though I do not control Echomail or belong to any star-system.

    Read carefully what I wrote to Charles. Write a Fido mailer and convince the need for a serious change in the process for applying that a non-techie can understand and get theire head around. *THAT* is the "future of Fido". Not Telegram or any integration with an existing Internet platform.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:229/426.67 to Nick Andre on Sun Nov 15 16:49:23 2020
    Hello, Nick Andre.
    On 11/15/20 3:37 PM you wrote:

    On 15 Nov 20 13:35:23, Charles Pierson said the following to Nick
    Andre:
    Generally speaking, I would agree. Although I have mentioned
    expanding mobi access in ways, such as QWK or similar offline
    readers, or even a potential BBS package in places, and at best,
    I've seen indifference, usually it's mo common to be asked why I
    would want such a thing.
    I'm not disagreeing but have yet to see anyone not embrace another
    QWK or BBS
    ( NA> package. Most Sysops love tinkering with new BBS-related things. Every time a
    new version of Mystic, Synchronet or my mailer D'Bridge is
    published, Sysops just can't *wait* to get their hands on it.

    I'm pretty certain that if I was to be able to manage any of that, there would be at least some interest. That's not really the problem though.

    Well, it is in that I don't have the capability right now myself. That can be rectified though, given time. There are even "short cuts" in software that's source code is available is out there that could be used as a template or guide, if not ported over directly, then adjusting to work with the user interface.


    I've even considered ideas like using existing software in a DOSBOX environment, but I can't figure out how to get that environment to see the WiFi connection.

    It's as I said, more a lack of interest, or even worse, "Yes it's possible, but why?" Or perhaps I just haven't found the right audience.

    But again, Fido Sysops are usually reluctant to have any Internet platform integrate with Fidonet. Doesn't matter if it has admins
    blocking spam or whatever. Some Sysops just don't like it. Some
    don't even like having Echomail being made available on someone's
    web server for Google searching. Theres just something about
    wanting to keep it close-knit and away from Internet platforms and
    search engines. And BBS Sysops *love* their setups. They find
    something and stick with. You will pry D'Bridge and Renegade from
    my cold dead hands.

    All of that is true.

    But Fidonet can be found on search engines. And echomail can be found in internet archives.

    I'm not suggesting that anything fundamentally changes what Fidonet or the BBS community is. I wouldn't ever want it to be another Facebook or Twitter or anything like that.

    But it does have something to offer people. I've had better conversations on BBSes than anywhere else, even with people I don't agree with. It's something that's missing elsewhere. More people could do with that experience.

    I know you didn't mention Telegram but its kindof the same reason
    why we don't use NNTP for Echomail distribution or distributed DNS
    or XML-formatted nodelist segments or embedded graphics and links
    in messages or whatever bright ideas are mentioned every few years
    or so in this echo and elsewhere.

    I know there are questions about Telegram. And they should be asked and answered.

    I also know there are people that don't like it and won't use it, and apparently some who won't participate in an echo linked to Telegram.

    But right now, it's something some people are trying out. It might not work out. Stas might decide he doesn't want to work on it anymore. Or it might hang around in whatever Echos that moderators allow it to. Time will tell.

    Its also why UTF-8 is a disaster and even getting an idea as to
    whats "standard" in Fidonet requires a lot of digging around a
    mess of FTSC documents. As a Fido developer I can tell you its
    not easy writing Fido software. Kludges and tacked-on illogical
    crap like MSGID/REPLY nonsense, abandonware being used by many
    Sysops that strips Seen-by lines and generally a bunch of
    bandaids upon bandaids to keep it going. Thats to say nothing
    about the upcoming 2038 date problem.

    This I understand. Just watching a discussion on "standards" about UTC vs actual time zones, MSG ID, and the like don't help the migraine for sure.



    Every couple of years, someone such as yourself will ponder here
    or elsewhere why new ideas are often rejected or why its
    difficult to attract newcomers. Simple answer is if Sysops want
    the Internet, they use the Internet. Sysops love their software,
    its personal to them.

    I wouldn't want to take anything away. I don't think anyone wants that.

    I think that's where part of the issues come from.

    It is entirely possible for there to be new software or technology to exist and work side by side with what exists.

    BBS and Fidonet software has survived the internet Y2K and more. I've heard mention of 2038 but I'm not sure what that is exactly, but it will survive that too.

    And Fido software itself is just too "techie" for the average
    person. To get a node number, a newcomer must agree to a slew of
    things in Policy 4. You try explaining that to a non-techie
    person, about mailers and editors and nodelists. Not happening my
    friend.

    I've been in and out of BBSes and Fidonet since the 80's. I'm still figuring some of that stuff out.

    And I'd never suggest a new person try to set themselves up as a node.

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:229/426.67)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Charles Pierson on Mon Nov 16 10:12:00 2020
    Charles Pierson wrote to All <=-

    The Fidonet community, and the wider BBS world, has always been to me a group of people who celebrated new things.

    New software, new hardware, new technology, new program languages,
    someone somewhere would try it, and see if it could be adapted for our community. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But ordinarily people gave it a chance to see how it worked out, offering suggestions they thought might make it better.

    See my other echomail for my thoughts.

    Now it seems that people are more stuck in the idea that new is a bad thing. You try something new, or even express an idea of something
    new, people's reaction is "why?"

    I think you're missing my point. New isn't bad, but there's a quality
    to Fidonet messaging that is missing in the Telegram side.

    It's like people think something new will somehow invalidate almost 40 years of BBS history. Instead, I would hope that they could see that
    it's a celebration of that history, and showing that it is still
    relevant in the modern world, and very much still has something to
    offer.

    I don't agree, and I like the idea of opening Fidonet messaging
    through other means, like web interfaces and Telegram. I want to
    see it done in a way that preserves the qualities that make Fidonet
    messaging unique and it'll all be well. Otherwise, why bother?





    ... Change ambiguities to specifics
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 16 22:16:58 2020
    Hi, Nick!

    15 ноя 20 16:24, Nick Andre -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    I didn't say hacker attempts. Read again. I said that the Telegram integration is a hack job to make it work.

    I apologize for misunderstanding. English is not my native language.

    Its not reinventing anything or even remotely innovative and adds yet more kludge nonsense to messages, makes moderators nervous and has
    people Netmailing me about this "Telegram bullshit" even though I do
    not control Echomail or belong to any star-system.

    Read carefully what I wrote to Charles. Write a Fido mailer and convince the need for a serious change in the process for applying that a non-techie can understand and get theire head around. *THAT* is the "future of Fido". Not Telegram or any integration with an existing Internet platform.

    In General, I have never said that this is something new or revolutionary. I just do what I was asked to do because I can.
    If some of the sysops find it convenient and the moderator doesn't mind, then I see no reason not to do this.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- "Потом" - утешительная форма "никогда".
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to Kurt Weiske on Mon Nov 16 13:21:50 2020
    Hello, Kurt Weiske.
    On 11/16/20 10:12 AM you wrote:

    New software, new hardware, new technology, new program
    languages, someone somewhere would try it, and see if it could be
    adapted for our community. Sometimes it works, sometimes it
    doesn't. But ordinarily people gave it a chance to see how it
    worked out, offering suggestions they thought might make it
    better.
    See my other echomail for my thoughts.

    I have and have replied to it.

    Now it seems that people are more stuck in the idea that new is a
    bad thing. You try something new, or even express an idea of
    something new, people's reaction is "why?"
    I think you're missing my point. New isn't bad, but there's a
    quality to Fidonet messaging that is missing in the Telegram
    side.

    My message wasn't pointed towards anyone in particular, or even specifically about Telegram.
    I totally understand your point. I've pointed out things that are different between the two, and I think Stas is doing a decent job of implementing things into his bot to address them as he is able to.

    There are, unfortunately some differences between the two technologies that simply can't be addressed.

    Ultimately, it will come down to a matter of can they be close enough, and can those ultilizing Telegram do so in the spirit of Fidonet messages.

    It's like people think something new will somehow invalidate
    almost 40 years of BBS history. Instead, I would hope that they
    could see that it's a celebration of that history, and showing
    that it is still relevant in the modern world, and very much
    still has something to offer.
    I don't agree, and I like the idea of opening Fidonet messaging
    through other means, like web interfaces and Telegram. I want to
    see it done in a way that preserves the qualities that make
    Fidonet messaging unique and it'll all be well. Otherwise, why
    bother?

    I agree. And hopefully Telegram can get there.

    I would hope that much of what you see in messages that doesn't meet that is simply people trying features out, and what doesn't work for Fidonet will go away.


    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:153/757.26)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Charles Pierson on Mon Nov 16 15:11:44 2020
    On 16 Nov 20 13:21:50, Charles Pierson said the following to Kurt Weiske:

    I would hope that much of what you see in messages that doesn't meet that simply people trying features out, and what doesn't work for Fidonet will away.

    As ZC1 although I do not regulate Echomail, I am nonetheless receiving some Netmail thats beginning to have a familiar theme:

    - "What is this stupid Telegram bullshit? Who was the genius behind this?"
    - "I do not want my messages crossing over to Telegram servers"
    - "I did not agree to Telegram's ToS nor even sign up for an account"
    - "How do I opt out of this? Can you please do something about it?"

    I'm curious to hear suggestions as to how I should respond to these.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:229/426.67 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 16 15:09:05 2020
    Hello, Nick Andre.
    On 11/16/20 3:11 PM you wrote:

    As ZC1 although I do not regulate Echomail, I am nonetheless
    receiving some Netmail thats beginning to have a familiar theme:
    - "What is this stupid Telegram bullshit? Who was the genius
    behind this?" - "I do not want my messages crossing over to
    Telegram servers" - "I did not agree to Telegram's ToS nor even
    sign up for an account" - "How do I opt out of this? Can you
    please do something about it?" I'm curious to hear suggestions as
    to how I should respond to these.

    I'm not directly responsible for anything involved with the project, other than testing the functionality and making suggestions for improvements when I notice things.

    That being said, honestly, as I understand it, August or Stas are contacting the moderators to receive permission to connect any echos to Telegram prior to doing so, as is required according to their ELIST entries. If the users of these echos have any issues with this, it should be taken up with the echo moderators involved.

    I will say that in hind site, even with moderator approval, going live with linking the echos with Telegram without informing the existing Fido users of the fact prior, and explaining what it is, how it works, privacy information, etc. beforehand likely wasn't the best way to move forward.

    As Z1C, honestly I'm not entirely familiar with how the heirarchy works, I would guess you either direct the questions to the moderators involved, or Fidonet policy makers make a ruling on the matter.



    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:229/426.67)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Charles Pierson on Mon Nov 16 16:27:15 2020
    On 16 Nov 20 15:09:05, Charles Pierson said the following to Nick Andre:

    I will say that in hind site, even with moderator approval, going live
    with
    linking the echos with Telegram without informing the existing Fido users the fact prior, and explaining what it is, how it works, privacy
    informatio
    etc. beforehand likely wasn't the best way to move forward.

    Its really rubbing some Sysops the wrong way, having them find out that their messages are crossing over to some Internet platform they've never heard of nor feel comfortable with. This to me is no different than a Sysop who
    just decides to makes everything available on a Web BBS.

    I do not understand why all of this wasn't done either in seperate dedicated echoes for this purpose or an entire Othernet. It appears no thought at all was given as to how the Sysop would feel about it.

    This is not the "future" for Fido and I hope it stops soon. This is a perfect example of how not to do something and why new ideas are most often rejected.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:229/426.67 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 16 18:27:36 2020
    Hello, Nick Andre.
    On 11/16/20 4:27 PM you wrote:

    Its really rubbing some Sysops the wrong way, having them find out
    that their messages are crossing over to some Internet platform
    they've never heard of nor feel comfortable with. This to me is
    no different than a Sysop who just decides to makes everything
    available on a Web BBS.
    Any sort of change, or something new, is always going to have people that don't like it. It's a natural part of the cycle.


    Telegram-Fido is as far as I can tell, following Fidonet Policy. It has a distinct Node, and is receiving Moderator permission before linking to any Echo.

    Could it have been handled differently? Of course. Either the Echo Moderators, or August, who is the primary person promoting this effort, could have made announcements explaining what it is and answering questions before turning the echo on.





    I do not understand why all of this wasn't done either in seperate dedicated echoes for this purpose or an entire Othernet. It
    appears no thought at all was given as to how the Sysop would
    feel about it.

    In this instance, yes, Telegram is a web based interface. But according to their own privacy policy, only people that are in the chat group have access to the contents of that group.

    The groups, and the bot that acts as a gateway/mailer/tosser, act in the same manner as a NODE or POINT.

    As I said above, it has done everything according to Policy as far as I am aware.

    As far as I am aware, Sysop's are free to carry or not carry any echo they wish. I haven't seen anything stating otherwise. Nor have I seen anything about Echo Areas requiring Sysops to approve anything that Echo's moderator does within Policy.


    I'm not trying to be belligerent nor argumentative, I'm simply trying to explain things to the best of my understanding.

    I don't stand to benefit either way with this thing. It's something that I saw people putting together, and I think it has potential.


    This is not the "future" for Fido and I hope it stops soon. This
    is a perfect example of how not to do something and why new ideas
    are most often rejected.

    I have said before, I agree the introduction of new echos could have been done differently.

    People have questions, and I'm trying to answer them to the best of my ability, as I am made aware of them.

    I'm by no means an expert on Fidonet nor Telegram, but I'm trying hard to get the best understanding I can of it all to hopefully get a general understanding of things all around.

    I'm happy to try and answer any questions anyone has.

    I wouldn't suggest contacting me by Netmail on my point to Your system Nick, as I still haven't figured out why it's going to my user account on your BBS instead of my point address. But I'll answer from there as well, it just might be a little slower replying.

    Nick --- Renegade vY2Ka2 * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:229/426.67)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Nick Andre on Tue Nov 17 08:50:50 2020
    Hi, Nick!

    16 ноя 20 15:11, Nick Andre -> Charles Pierson:

    As ZC1 although I do not regulate Echomail, I am nonetheless receiving some Netmail thats beginning to have a familiar theme:

    - "What is this stupid Telegram bullshit? Who was the genius behind
    this?"
    - "I do not want my messages crossing over to Telegram servers"
    - "I did not agree to Telegram's ToS nor even sign up for an account"
    - "How do I opt out of this? Can you please do something about it?"

    I'm curious to hear suggestions as to how I should respond to these.

    I am greatly surprised by the examples you have given.
    Why don't these sysops, before disturbing the ZC, first contact the sysop of the node from which the Telegram messages enter the network, with the moderator of the echo conference, the message of which can be read in Telegram?
    Is knowledge with the Policy not obligatory in zone 1 to obtain a node number? Among other things, for some reason, such sysops are not embarrassed by the presence of a WEB BBS that provides open access to messages from Fido echo conferences to anyone who wants to, nor does it bother the indexing, storage and provision of free access to anyone who wants such messages by the servers Googl, Yandex and the like.

    PS: I allow this post of mine to be quoted or used in full when answering such requests.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Старость - это когда видишь сиськи и вспоминаешь, что забыл молока купить
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Nick Andre on Tue Nov 17 09:18:22 2020
    Hi, Nick!

    16 ноя 20 16:27, Nick Andre -> Charles Pierson:

    Its really rubbing some Sysops the wrong way, having them find out
    that their messages are crossing over to some Internet platform
    they've never heard of nor feel comfortable with.

    These sysops can always contact the BBS sysop or complain to his network coordinator.

    This to me is no different than a Sysop who just decides to makes everything available on a Web BBS.

    And this is completely fair, it seems to me.

    I do not understand why all of this wasn't done either in seperate dedicated echoes for this purpose or an entire Othernet.

    Such echo conferences also exist. It all started with them.

    This is not the "future" for Fido and I hope it stops soon.

    It's hard to argue with that. Moreover, from the very beginning it was not positioned as the future of Fido. This is just one of the possibilities, looking attractive or not attractive...

    This is a perfect example of how not to do something and why new
    ideas are most often rejected.

    One can argue with this, but I think that everyone will still have his opinion.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Хороший собеседник не только внимательно слушает, но и вовремя наливает.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Charles Pierson on Tue Nov 17 15:46:22 2020
    Hi, Charles!

    16 ноя 20 15:09, Charles Pierson -> Nick Andre:

    As Z1C, honestly I'm not entirely familiar with how the heirarchy
    works, I would guess you either direct the questions to the moderators involved, or Fidonet policy makers make a ruling on the matter.

    https://brorabbit.g0x.ru/files/policy4.txt
    1.2.5 Zones and Zone Coordinators

    A zone is a large geographic area containing many regions, covering one or
    more countries and/or continents.

    The Zone Coordinator compiles the nodelists from all of the regions in the zone, and creates the master nodelist and difference file, which is then distributed over FidoNet in the zone. A Zone Coordinator does not perform message-forwarding services for any nodes in the zone.

    Zone Coordinators are selected by the Regional Coordinators in that zone.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Очень помогает проснуться с утра арбуз с вечера.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tue Nov 17 07:17:38 2020
    On 17 Nov 20 08:50:50, Stas Mishchenkov said the following to Nick Andre:

    I am greatly surprised by the examples you have given.
    Why don't these sysops, before disturbing the ZC, first contact the sysop the node from which the Telegram messages enter the network, with the moderator of the echo conference, the message of which can be read in
    Teleg

    Oh I know you are greatly surprised, because you do not see things the way I do or deal with Sysops about how personal Fido means to them. You appear to
    be more interested in the tech:

    Is knowledge with the Policy not obligatory in zone 1 to obtain a node num Among other things, for some reason, such sysops are not embarrassed by
    the
    presence of a WEB BBS that provides open access to messages from Fido echo conferences to anyone who wants to, nor does it bother the indexing,
    storag
    and provision of free access to anyone who wants such messages by the
    serve
    Googl, Yandex and the like.

    Just because you have the technical ability to integrate with Telegram does not necessarily mean you should.

    Let me ask you a question. What is the point of having Fidonet when theres Usenet groups with more features, arguably better distribution and software?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tue Nov 17 07:25:43 2020
    On 17 Nov 20 09:18:22, Stas Mishchenkov said the following to Nick Andre:

    Its really rubbing some Sysops the wrong way, having them find out that their messages are crossing over to some Internet platform they've never heard of nor feel comfortable with.

    These sysops can always contact the BBS sysop or complain to his network coordinator.

    Then we have established clearly that you are more excited about the technical ability to do something rather than the impact it has on a Sysop.

    Sysops now must take the time to "opt out" of your creation if we discover we are posting in an area that carries to this Internet platform most of us
    have never heard about, because of your idea of convenience. Sysops now must complain to the moderators rather than being able to enjoy Fidonet for being Fidonet.

    That is why it would have made more sense to keep this creation in its own dedicated echoes or even its own network entirely. It would have been respected much greater.

    You can argue with me all you want; you know I'm right and just will not
    admit that you went about the deployment of your creation in the wrong way.

    Thanks to you, I'm now fielding complaints about something I don't even want to deal with. Thank you very much, a nice big round of applause for you.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Charles Pierson on Tue Nov 17 16:02:48 2020
    Hi, Charles!

    16 ноя 20 18:27, Charles Pierson -> Nick Andre:

    Telegram-Fido is as far as I can tell, following Fidonet Policy. It
    has a distinct Node, and is receiving Moderator permission before
    linking to any Echo.

    Would like to note.
    1. Do many sysops of BBSs, especially WEB BBSs, ask the moderator for permission before sharing the echo conference?
    2. Is it required at all to agree with anyone to provide access to echoconferences on the BBS?

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- На халяву не только уксус сладок, но и свинина постна, халяльна и кошерна.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Charles Pierson@2:221/6.21 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tue Nov 17 07:27:28 2020
    Hello, Stas Mishchenkov.
    On 11/17/20 3:46 PM you wrote:

    Hi, Charles! 16 я┐╜я┐╜я┐╜ 20 15:09, Charles Pierson -> Nick Andre:
    As Z1C, honestly I'm not entirely familiar with how the heirarchy
    works, I would guess you either direct the questions to the
    moderators involved, or Fidonet policy makers make a ruling on
    the matter.
    https://brorabbit.g0x.ru/files/policy4.txt 1.2.5 Zones and Zone Coordinators

    I did read up on the policy last night to help me in discussions.

    It didn't help with understanding why the echo moderators, Net and Regional Coordinators, or you and August were bypassed in the concerns being expressed, or if they were contacted, they haven't seen the need to express them.



    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, Tx (2:221/6.21)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tue Nov 17 09:24:00 2020
    Stas Mishchenkov wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    I am greatly surprised by the examples you have given.
    Why don't these sysops, before disturbing the ZC, first contact the
    sysop of the node from which the Telegram messages enter the network,
    with the moderator of the echo conference, the message of which can be read in Telegram? Is knowledge with the Policy not obligatory in zone 1
    to obtain a node number? Among other things, for some reason, such
    sysops are not embarrassed by the presence of a WEB BBS that provides
    open access to messages from Fido echo conferences to anyone who wants
    to, nor does it bother the indexing, storage and provision of free
    access to anyone who wants such messages by the servers Googl, Yandex
    and the like.

    PS: I allow this post of mine to be quoted or used in full when
    answering such requests.

    Could you respond to the points Nick brought up in his post?



    ... Find a safe part and use it as an anchor
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tue Nov 17 09:28:00 2020
    Stas Mishchenkov wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

    Would like to note.
    1. Do many sysops of BBSs, especially WEB BBSs, ask the moderator for permission before sharing the echo conference? 2. Is it required at all
    to agree with anyone to provide access to echoconferences on the BBS?

    We seem to have consensus that allowing guest access to Fidonet via
    web forums is a bad idea. Not sure how that impacts the current
    discussion, nor if it's relevant except to redirect attention away
    from the discussion about Telegram.



    ... Find a safe part and use it as an anchor
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Charles Pierson on Tue Nov 17 09:29:00 2020
    Charles Pierson wrote to Stas Mishchenkov <=-

    It didn't help with understanding why the echo moderators, Net and Regional Coordinators, or you and August were bypassed in the concerns being expressed, or if they were contacted, they haven't seen the need
    to express them.

    Let's move on from how sysops expressed their concern and/or
    dissatisfaction with Telegram integration and instead address the
    concerns.


    ... Find a safe part and use it as an anchor
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Charles Pierson on Tue Nov 17 09:34:00 2020
    Charles Pierson wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    Any sort of change, or something new, is always going to have people
    that don't like it. It's a natural part of the cycle.

    That seems to miss the point. Nick and I aren't complaining about the
    novelty of Telegram integration, but rather how it was rolled out.

    Could it have been handled differently? Of course. Either the Echo Moderators, or August, who is the primary person promoting this effort, could have made announcements explaining what it is and answering questions before turning the echo on.

    So where do we go from here?




    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Nick Andre on Tue Nov 17 09:34:00 2020
    Nick Andre wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

    - "What is this stupid Telegram bullshit? Who was the genius behind
    this?" - "I do not want my messages crossing over to Telegram servers"
    - "I did not agree to Telegram's ToS nor even sign up for an account"
    - "How do I opt out of this? Can you please do something about it?"

    I'm curious to hear suggestions as to how I should respond to these.

    I think it's entirely up to the echo moderators to explicitly allow
    or disallow gating to other networks/platforms, and for Fido users to
    vote with their feet if they're dissatisfied with the moderator's
    stance with regards to Telegram.




    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to Kurt Weiske on Wed Nov 18 11:15:25 2020
    Hello, Kurt Weiske.
    On 11/17/20 9:28 AM you wrote:

    Stas Mishchenkov wrote to Charles Pierson <=-
    Would like to note. 1. Do many sysops of BBSs, especially WEB
    BBSs, ask the moderator for permission before sharing the echo
    conference? 2. Is it required at all to agree with anyone to
    provide access to echoconferences on the BBS?
    We seem to have consensus that allowing guest access to Fidonet
    via web forums is a bad idea. Not sure how that impacts the
    current discussion, nor if it's relevant except to redirect
    attention away from the discussion about Telegram.

    I don't know that anything allows guest access. At least not anything that I've run across.

    Which is a good thing right?

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:153/757.26)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to Kurt Weiske on Wed Nov 18 11:21:12 2020
    Hello, Kurt Weiske.
    On 11/17/20 9:29 AM you wrote:

    Charles Pierson wrote to Stas Mishchenkov <=-
    It didn't help with understanding why the echo moderators, Net
    and Regional Coordinators, or you and August were bypassed in the
    concerns being expressed, or if they were contacted, they haven't
    seen the need to express them.
    Let's move on from how sysops expressed their concern and/or dissatisfaction with Telegram integration and instead address the concerns.

    I'm willing to. I think that I might have at least touched on any that I'm aware of that I can answer, and have offered to answer any that are asked.

    I might not have all of the answers, but I'm willing to find out what I'm not sure of.

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:153/757.26)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:229/426.67 to Kurt Weiske on Wed Nov 18 11:51:30 2020
    Hello, Kurt Weiske.
    On 11/17/20 9:34 AM you wrote:

    Charles Pierson wrote to Nick Andre <=-
    Any sort of change, or something new, is always going to have
    people that don't like it. It's a natural part of the cycle.
    That seems to miss the point. Nick and I aren't complaining about
    the novelty of Telegram integration, but rather how it was rolled
    out.
    It might be I've misunderstood things somewhat. I apologize for that.
    Could it have been handled differently? Of course. Either the
    Echo Moderators, or August, who is the primary person promoting
    this effort, could have made announcements explaining what it is
    and answering questions before turning the echo on.
    So where do we go from here?

    That's a very good question.

    I had intended to write an article to submit to either Fidonews or Fidogazette, or both, to explain what this project was. Family health issues sidelined that, I simply couldn't focus on it like it needed.

    That's still something I would like to see done. I'm just not sure how quickly I would be able to do so.

    Currently, I think there are about 12 echos linked to Telegram. As I've stated previously, August or Stas have received moderator approval prior to the linking.

    I definitely think that no more should be added right now.

    For simplicities sake, I'm willing to take on responding to any questions people might have.

    They can be asked here in this echo, or if people prefer, they can Netmail me @ 2:240/1120.976

    I suggest that Net address simply because I see, to be having a small issue with netmail at other points.

    With regards to privacy concerns, according to Telegrams Privacy policy, no one can read any messages in the groups except members of the group.

    Is this a good start?

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:229/426.67)
  • From Brother Rabbit@2:460/58 to Charles Pierson on Wed Nov 18 21:14:14 2020
    1:153/757.26 5f043f8c
    Hello, Kurt Weiske.
    On 11/17/20 9:28 AM you wrote:

    Stas Mishchenkov wrote to Charles Pierson <=-
    Would like to note. 1. Do many sysops of BBSs, especially WEB
    BBSs, ask the moderator for permission before sharing the echo
    conference? 2. Is it required at all to agree with anyone to
    provide access to echoconferences on the BBS?
    We seem to have consensus that allowing guest access to Fidonet
    via web forums is a bad idea. Not sure how that impacts the
    current discussion, nor if it's relevant except to redirect attention away from the discussion about Telegram.

    I don't know that anything allows guest access. At least not anything
    that I've run across.

    Which is a good thing right?

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android

    Take a look...
    https://brorabbit.g0x.ru/pic/5fb56475.jpg




    --- tg BBS v0.6.2
    * Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS by Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/58)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Charles Pierson on Tue Nov 17 18:56:29 2020
    BY: Charles Pierson(1:229/426.67)


    I will say that in hind site, even with moderator approval, going live
    with linking the echos with Telegram without informing the existing Fido users of the fact prior, and explaining what it is, how it works,
    privacy information, etc. beforehand likely wasn't the best way to move forward.
    Maybe a monthly FAQ about the interaction between the platforms might be helpful.


    --- WWIV 5.6.0.3317
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Nick Andre on Wed Nov 18 21:48:49 2020
    BY: Nick Andre(1:229/426)


    Usenet groups with more features, arguably better distribution and software?
    Many usenet groups are not what they were in the past like 20-25 years ago.


    --- WWIV 5.6.0.3319
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Charles Pierson on Fri Nov 20 09:39:28 2020
    Hi, Charles!

    18 ноя 20 11:51, Charles Pierson -> Kurt Weiske:

    Currently, I think there are about 12 echos linked to Telegram.

    For now it is 36...

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Снесла курочка яичко старику и выразительно посмотрела на модератора.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Stas Mishchenkov on Fri Nov 20 09:51:24 2020
    Hi Stas,

    On 2020-11-20 09:39:28, you wrote to Charles Pierson:

    Currently, I think there are about 12 echos linked to Telegram.

    For now it is 36...

    But I suppose most of them are russian-language ones?

    Btw: How was the Telegram "gating" received in your part of the world? Any opposition like we see here?

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:460/58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Fri Nov 20 16:44:15 2020
    2:460/5858 5fb764c5
    Hi, Charles!

    18 ноя 20 11:51, Charles Pierson -> Kurt Weiske:

    Currently, I think there are about 12 echos linked to Telegram.

    For now it is 36...

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    What does that translate to in MB or GB per day or month on average?


    --- tg BBS v0.6.2
    * Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS by Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Nov 20 17:56:14 2020
    Hi, Wilfred!

    20 ноя 20 09:51, Wilfred van Velzen -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Currently, I think there are about 12 echos linked to Telegram.

    For now it is 36...

    But I suppose most of them are russian-language ones?

    I didn't count. I think there are more English speakers.

    Btw: How was the Telegram "gating" received in your part of the
    world?
    Any opposition like we see here?

    About the same. 1-2 sysops are nervous that their messages may appear on Telegram servers. 1-2 sysops are nervous about the inconsistency of the message format and communication style. The rest are happy to use it. Sometimes requests come to connect an echo conference to my Telegram BBS.

    PS: Let's count...

    LORAPVT.BIGFILES -1001417964485
    LORAPVT.HORO -1001306017407
    LORAPVT -367920550
    # My local areas for personal usage

    CRIMEA.TALK -1001426269798

    PVT.ZONA -1001475402922
    # Publik open group

    HOBBIT.TEST -1001223938142
    #local area for testing

    FIDONET.UNOFICIAL -1001373803050
    FIDONET.ONLINE -1001203354493
    # two open areas

    RU.SEX.SIMVOL -1001254830976 fileonly toUUE -dn
    FUTURE4FIDO -1001231012163
    DOS -1001185473479
    COFFEE_KLATSCH -1001206383505
    DOOM -1001232254932
    DOORGAMES -1001447416576
    ESSNASA -1001444430975
    FIDO_UTIL -1001472792656
    MOVIES -1001455266368
    TAGLINES -1001363138878
    TUXPOWER -1001152530816
    UUE.DEVOCHKI -1001252602690 fileonly toUUE -dn
    OBEC.PACTET -1001488143528
    CHAT -1001256631918
    SU.TOLKIEN -1001130922332
    UPORTAL.SYTES.NET -1001468916746
    RETAIL_HORROR -1001392980223
    ASIAN_LINK -1001313913131
    X-FILES -1001225305537
    NZ_FIDONET -1001397868255
    TYT.BCE.HACPEM -1001260395870 toUUE -dn
    AUDIO -1001318135575
    MUSIC -1001390192946
    R46.CRISIS -422626092


    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Самый мой проверенный рецепт - сказать жене, что хочешь борща.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Fri Nov 20 18:03:50 2020
    Hi, August!

    20 ноя 20 16:44, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Currently, I think there are about 12 echos linked to Telegram.

    For now it is 36...

    What does that translate to in MB or GB per day or month on average?

    I can't even imagine approximately. I didn't count.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Хороший собеседник не только внимательно слушает, но и вовремя наливает.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:460/58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Fri Nov 20 18:15:11 2020
    2:460/5858 5fb7db0e
    Hi, August!

    20 ноя 20 16:44, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Currently, I think there are about 12 echos linked to Telegram. SM>>
    For now it is 36...

    What does that translate to in MB or GB per day or month on average?

    I can't even imagine approximately. I didn't count.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    Considering that you also process some UUE groups based on the list you posted, I would imagine that it adds up.


    --- tg BBS v0.6.2
    * Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS by Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Fri Nov 20 18:40:20 2020
    Hi, August!

    20 ноя 20 18:15, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    What does that translate to in MB or GB per day or month on
    average?

    I can't even imagine approximately. I didn't count.

    Considering that you also process some UUE groups based on the list
    you posted, I would imagine that it adds up.

    Yes. And they are recoded in both directions, as you can see from the options. https://t.me/joinchat/H99gCEqpM0KXlCu2-Tl7Xg https://t.me/joinchat/H99gCErLM4ALx4kODjO9Ew
    Warning! Erotic content.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- - А вы по национальности...? - Таки-да. А вы? - Нет. - А шо так?
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Fri Nov 20 19:16:40 2020
    Hi, August!

    20 ноя 20 18:40, Stas Mishchenkov -> August Abolins:

    Considering that you also process some UUE groups based on the list
    you posted, I would imagine that it adds up.

    Yes. And they are recoded in both directions, as you can see from the options.
    https://t.me/joinchat/H99gCEqpM0KXlCu2-Tl7Xg https://t.me/joinchat/H99gCErLM4ALx4kODjO9Ew
    Warning! Erotic content.

    BTW, it is very easy to send files UUEencoded to such echo conferences via the Telegram BBS. It is enough just to drag them with the mouse. ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Доктор плохого не посоветует, но и хорошего не разрешит.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From August Abolins@2:460/58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Fri Nov 20 19:28:12 2020
    2:460/5858 5fb7ebea
    Hi, August!

    20 ноя 20 18:40, Stas Mishchenkov -> August Abolins:

    Considering that you also process some UUE groups based on the list AA>> you posted, I would imagine that it adds up.

    Yes. And they are recoded in both directions, as you can see from the options.
    https://t.me/joinchat/H99gCEqpM0KXlCu2-Tl7Xg https://t.me/joinchat/H99gCErLM4ALx4kODjO9Ew
    Warning! Erotic content.

    BTW, it is very easy to send files UUEencoded to such echo conferences
    via the Telegram BBS. It is enough just to drag them with the mouse. ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    But considering that Telegram has a maximum char count (was it about 2500?) don't the uue files break in the middle of a row?


    --- tg BBS v0.6.2
    * Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS by Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/58)
  • From August Abolins@2:460/58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Fri Nov 20 19:30:12 2020
    2:460/5858 5fb7ebea
    Hi, August!

    20 ноя 20 18:40, Stas Mishchenkov -> August Abolins:

    Considering that you also process some UUE groups based on the list AA>> you posted, I would imagine that it adds up.

    Yes. And they are recoded in both directions, as you can see from the options.
    https://t.me/joinchat/H99gCEqpM0KXlCu2-Tl7Xg https://t.me/joinchat/H99gCErLM4ALx4kODjO9Ew
    Warning! Erotic content.

    BTW, it is very easy to send files UUEencoded to such echo conferences
    via the Telegram BBS. It is enough just to drag them with the mouse. ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    Oh NEVERMIND. I get it. You convert the UUE files to full files on your BBS and then they are available with a link using Telegram?


    --- tg BBS v0.6.2
    * Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS by Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Stas Mishchenkov on Fri Nov 20 18:51:00 2020
    Hello Stas!

    ** On Friday 20.11.20 - 17:56, Stas Mishchenkov wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    RETAIL_HORROR -1001392980223

    A reminder. This one needs to be removed.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.47
    * Origin: Got mobile? FUTURE4FIDO = https://tinyurl.com/yx9z6d37 (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@1:0/0 to Stas Mishchenkov on Fri Nov 20 17:02:09 2020
    Hi Stas!

    20 Nov 20 18:15, I wrote to you:

    Considering that you also process some UUE groups based on the list
    you posted, I would imagine that it adds up.

    Further to that, you process any photo/file attachements and store them on your bbs too. That can certainly take considerable time as your system works through all that.


    --- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: ----> Point Of VeleNo BBs (http://www.velenobbs.net)
  • From Richard Miles@1:3634/24 to Charles Pierson on Tue Nov 17 15:25:22 2020
    On 16 Nov 2020, Charles Pierson said the following...

    Ultimately, it will come down to a matter of can they be close enough,
    and can those ultilizing Telegram do so in the spirit of Fidonet
    messages.

    I think that's probably the biggest issue for folks. I know I want to
    continue to see discussions, etc. BBSes are by default a text based
    interface. Too many stickers and pictures that nobody can see from the BBS
    side tends to kill the discussion.

    -=>Richard Miles<=-
    -=>Captain Obvious<=-
    -=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Shadowscope BBS | shadowscope.noip.us | Temple, GA (1:3634/24)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Richard Miles on Sat Nov 21 20:24:00 2020
    Hello Richard!

    ** On Tuesday 17.11.20 - 15:25, Richard Miles wrote to Charles Pierson:

    Ultimately, it will come down to a matter of can they be
    close enough, and can those ultilizing Telegram do so in
    the spirit of Fidonet messages.

    I think that's probably the biggest issue for folks. I
    know I want to continue to see discussions, etc. BBSes
    are by default a text based interface. Too many stickers
    and pictures that nobody can see from the BBS side tends
    to kill the discussion.

    I've moved my reply to this in FIDONET.TELEGRAM echo.


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.47
    * Origin: Got mobile? FUTURE4FIDO = https://tinyurl.com/yx9z6d37 (2:221/1.58)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to Richard Miles on Sat Nov 21 20:32:06 2020
    Hello, Richard Miles.
    On 11/17/20 3:25 PM you wrote:

    On 16 Nov 2020, Charles Pierson said the following...
    Ultimately, it will come down to a matter of can they be close
    enough, and can those ultilizing Telegram do so in the spirit of
    Fidonet messages.
    I think that's probably the biggest issue for folks. I know I want
    to continue to see discussions, etc. BBSes are by default a text
    based interface. Too many stickers and pictures that nobody can
    see from the BBS side tends to kill the discussion.

    I can attach pictures to messages using HotdogEd Point system. It shows a weblink to the file server. But it is related to what I am talking about.

    For example I've attached photos of plants I'm growing or planters I'm making from discarded items in HOME_N_GRDN.

    Or if I post an article or a blurb about a book that interests me, I'll include the link to the source so that people can read it for themselves.

    I wouldn't think there is a problem with that, or at least no one has said anything to me about it so far.

    But I do understand about the photos/links with no context.



    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Houston, TX (1:153/757.26)
  • From Richard Miles@2:460/58 to Charles Pierson on Sun Nov 22 13:38:12 2020
    1:153/757.26 3ed34e4d
    Hello, Richard Miles.
    On 11/17/20 3:25 PM you wrote:

    On 16 Nov 2020, Charles Pierson said the following...
    Ultimately, it will come down to a matter of can they be close
    enough, and can those ultilizing Telegram do so in the spirit of CP>> Fidonet messages.
    I think that's probably the biggest issue for folks. I know I want
    to continue to see discussions, etc. BBSes are by default a text based interface. Too many stickers and pictures that nobody can
    see from the BBS side tends to kill the discussion.

    I can attach pictures to messages using HotdogEd Point system. It shows a
    weblink to the file server. But it is related to what I am talking about.

    For example I've attached photos of plants I'm growing or planters I'm
    making from discarded items in HOME_N_GRDN.

    Or if I post an article or a blurb about a book that interests me, I'll
    include the link to the source so that people can read it for themselves.

    I wouldn't think there is a problem with that, or at least no one has
    said anything to me about it so far.

    But I do understand about the photos/links with no context.



    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android

    I do the same. I'll post links to stuff when I'm connected through my telnet client as well, so don't really see a difference there.


    --- tg BBS v0.6.2
    * Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS by Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/58)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to August Abolins on Thu Nov 26 13:12:34 2020
    Hi, August!

    20 ноя 20 17:02, August Abolins -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Considering that you also process some UUE groups based on the list
    you posted, I would imagine that it adds up.

    Further to that, you process any photo/file attachements and store them
    on
    your bbs too. That can certainly take considerable time as your system works through all that.

    The files are not large and their decoding does not take a lot of time and resources. There are not many such files.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- Самый мой проверенный рецепт - сказать жене, что хочешь борща.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)