I'm wondering how many ways there are to deal with trolls in Fidonet ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward Dossche.
On 15/09/19 13:59 you wrote:

I'm wondering how many ways there are to deal with trolls in
Fidonet ...

The only way to deal with a troll is no deal. :)
Remember, don't feed the trolls.

BTW, I respect that sysop, I think he is a pure, but the world is not made for the purest. ;)
--
Ciao! :)
Fabio.
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: ]\/[imac boss android point (2:335/364.3)

Fabio,

I'm wondering how many ways there are to deal with trolls in
Fidonet ...

...

BTW, I respect that sysop, I think he is a pure, but the world is not
made for the purest. ;)

So you are bringing "sysop" now in the equation ?

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Re: Trolls
By: Ward Dossche to All on Sun Sep 15 2019 13:59:36

I'm wondering how many ways there are to deal with trolls in Fidonet ...

i can think of three off the top of my head...

1. one was used in the past to completely filter out certain posters/systems from the stream...

2. per system system-wide twit filters where the posters/systems are filtered for ALL users of the system... if your software has such capability...

3. per system per user twit filters where the posters/systems are filtered by users that elect to use the twit filter... if your software has such capability...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.09-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Re: Trolls
By: Fabio Bizzi to Ward Dossche on Sun Sep 15 2019 14:35:07

BTW, I respect that sysop, I think he is a pure, but the world is not made

for the purest. ;)

if you are talking about LL, he is not an operator... he is a user...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.09-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hello, Ward Dossche.
On 15/09/19 15:47 you wrote:

BTW, I respect that sysop, I think he is a pure, but the world is
not made for the purest. ;)

So you are bringing "sysop" now in the equation ?

Usually a Troll uses always a system to spread his/her nonsense, and a system is owned by an operator/sysop that manage it. :)

And I respect the idea of freedom of that sysop, I don't share the way that he uses to do it.

As I wrote before, Freedom without rules is Anarchy. ;)
--
Ciao! :)
Fabio.
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: ]\/[imac boss android point (2:335/364.3)

Hello, mark lewis.
On 15/09/19 09:49 you wrote:

Re: Trolls
By: Fabio Bizzi to Ward Dossche on Sun Sep 15 2019 14:35:07

BTW, I respect that sysop, I think he is a pure, but the world is
not made for the purest. ;)

if you are talking about LL, he is not an operator... he is a
user...

No, LL isn't a user, he/she (how can I refer to a generic third person in English?) is a Troll. :)

I was talking about the operator that allows LL to abuse about the concept of freedom, BF. ;)

--
Ciao! :)
Fabio.
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: ]\/[imac boss android point (2:335/364.3)

On 2019 Sep 15 16:38:22, you wrote to me:

BTW, I respect that sysop, I think he is a pure, but the world is
not made for the purest. ;)

if you are talking about LL, he is not an operator... he is a
user...

No, LL isn't a user, he/she (how can I refer to a generic third person in English?) is a Troll. :)

ok, so a luser, then ;)

I was talking about the operator that allows LL to abuse about the
concept of freedom, BF. ;)

filtering posts by that person will not stop posts by the luser/troll, though... filtering that operator's system address(es) will filter all traffic from that system... i don't think that's really what is desired but it could be in some cases...



in answer to your question about referring to someone without knowledge of their gender, here in the US, we generally use "he" or "they"... other regions use "she" or "they"... some others just use "she"...

FWIW: you might be interesting in the ENGLISH_TUTOR echo where you can ask such questions and get a knowledgable reply from an english teacher and possibly several "english as a first language" participants ;)

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Different drummer? Hell, I have my own band!!!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 15 Sep 19 13:59:36, Ward Dossche said the following to All:

I'm wondering how many ways there are to deal with trolls in Fidonet ...

I'm not supportive of any filtering/twitting; thats NAB-level nonsense we do not need repeated and why should anyone do any work just because a troll usurp's an echo. Whose network is this anyway, the Sysops or the trolls?

If asking politely fails, and the operator of the trolling system chooses
to continue under the guise of "free speech", then there is one effective way.

But we first need an IC...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello, mark lewis.
On 15/09/19 11:00 you wrote:

in answer to your question about referring to someone without
knowledge of their gender, here in the US, we generally use "he"
or "they"... other regions use "she" or "they"... some others just
use "she"...

Thank you. :)

FWIW: you might be interesting in the ENGLISH_TUTOR echo where you
can ask such questions and get a knowledgable reply from an
english teacher and possibly several "english as a first language" participants ;)

Thank you again, a nice hint. ;)

--
Ciao! :)
Fabio.
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: ]\/[imac boss android point (2:335/364.3)

On 15/09/2019 13:59, Ward Dossche -> All wrote:

I'm wondering how many ways there are to deal with trolls in Fidonet ...

Use the Next key Luke.

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Pittsworth, Queensland, Australia (3:640/305)

I'm wondering how many ways there are to deal with trolls in Fidonet

...

Use the Next key Luke.

Actually, it was a statement rather than a question.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On 09-15-19 16:38, Fabio Bizzi wrote to mark lewis <=-

No, LL isn't a user, he/she (how can I refer to a generic third person
in English?) is a Troll. :)

The use of the singular "they". :)

"They are a troll" is gramatically correct in English.


... Cure for postal strikes: mail them their strike pay.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

On 09-15-19 11:00, mark lewis wrote to Fabio Bizzi <=-

in answer to your question about referring to someone without knowledge
of their gender, here in the US, we generally use "he" or "they"...
other regions use "she" or "they"... some others just use "she"...

The singular "they" to refer to a person of unknown/unspecified gender has been
in use in English for centuries, though for some reason, usage dropped off in the 20th century, but now it is increasing again.

FWIW: you might be interesting in the ENGLISH_TUTOR echo where you can
ask such questions and get a knowledgable reply from an english teacher and possibly several "english as a first language" participants ;)

I can tell you now, using "they" this way is gramatically correct. No, I'm not
an English teacher, but I've followed this sort of debate for a while now, and English is my first language. :)


... Hope is a good breakfast, but a bad supper.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hi Nick,

After being away from Fidonet a long time, why don't we have a IC?

On Sep 15, 2019 02:11pm, Nick Andre wrote to Ward Dossche:

But we first need an IC...

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

NOTE: top posting fixed in below quote... please post inline... it is much preferred to top posting...

On 2019 Sep 16 17:29:36, you wrote to Nick Andre:

But we first need an IC...

After being away from Fidonet a long time, why don't we have a IC?

1. an IC died.
2. the ZCC selected a new IC.
3. new IC tried playing numbers games.
4. the ZCC rejected new IC's numbers games.
5. the ZCC removed the new IC from the position.
6. the ZCC has not selected a new IC.
7. the ZCC has been able to handle the main job (nodelist generation) of the IC.

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Only in politics do resurrections occur. - Robert Bourassa
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 16 Sep 19 08:28:54, Mark Lewis said the following to Terry Roati:

NOTE: top posting fixed in below quote... please post inline... it is much preferred to top posting...

Oh not THIS shit again from you. Inline versus top-posting is a problem you have that makes my problems less trivial, thus brightening my gloomy day.

1. an IC died.
2. the ZCC selected a new IC.
3. new IC tried playing numbers games.
4. the ZCC rejected new IC's numbers games.
5. the ZCC removed the new IC from the position.
6. the ZCC has not selected a new IC.
7. the ZCC has been able to handle the main job (nodelist generation) of

th

IC.

I had asked a few times over the years, including after being elected ZC1, for anyone to clearly prove to me that the IC / ZC2 had acted inappropriately or really in fact has the little pointed ears and pitchfork tail.

Actual *evidence*. Not any stories of that he said this, he said that shit. I mean a solid archive of mail sent my way for me to study.

Cue to the crickets chirping. Not one person came forward to answer my
simple polite question. But, I was handed by IC/ZC2 a large archive of ZCC and ZCCPUBLIC with a polite explanation.

And the evidence was all there for me to study carefully that:

8. The-then ZC1 was directly responsible for the removal manipulation.
9. The previous ZC1 did not realise that an IC is necessary to enact or amend certain provisions of P4.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

9. The previous ZC1 did not realise that an IC is necessary to enact or amend certain provisions of P4.

P4 is clear on how one is chosen, majority of the ZCs. Since there a only 5 ZC's, you would think 3 of them would agree on who would do the job.

|15frank |08// |15netsurge
|07disksh0p|08!|07bbs |08% |07bbs.diskshop.ca |08% |07mystic goodness |11SciNet |03ftn hq |08% |07https://diskshop.ca/scinet

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
* Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (1:229/101)

P4 is clear on how one is chosen, majority of the ZCs. Since there a only 5 ZC's, you would think 3 of them would agree on who would do the job.

There is only Z1 - 4 today.

It would be a GoodThing(tm) if we could get our collective shit together well enough to table a working policy that the RCs could work with and agree to, and pass into policy.

I haven't discussed it in great detail with my RC, but I know he would be onside for that.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 16 Sep 19 11:32:34, Alan Ianson said the following to Frank Linhares:

It would be a GoodThing(tm) if we could get our collective shit together

we

enough to table a working policy that the RCs could work with and agree

to,

and pass into policy.

Patience my rusty-mailbox friend...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

P4 is clear on how one is chosen, majority of the ZCs. Since there a only
5 ZC's, you would think 3 of them would agree on who would do the job.

Please enlighten me ... who is the 5th ZC ?

Could be the title of a spy-novel ... ;-)

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On Sep 16, 2019 08:32am, mark lewis wrote to Terry Roati:

Hello Mark,

1. an IC died.
2. the ZCC selected a new IC.
3. new IC tried playing numbers games.
4. the ZCC rejected new IC's numbers games.
5. the ZCC removed the new IC from the position.
6. the ZCC has not selected a new IC.
7. the ZCC has been able to handle the main job (nodelist generation)
of the IC.

Since re-joining Fidonet after 16 years, one observation is that there are
too many sysops wearing too many hats.

Saying that it may have been necessary at the time and just left like that.

For example, there a number of sysops moderating a lot echos, IMHO sysops themselves should try to limit this by asking echo particpants if they would
be interested in taking over the moderator position.

If positions in Fidonet are spread around the group will become more of a community working together, there will always be the odd idiot but they become easier to deal with if the group is strong.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

On 09-16-19 08:28, Mark Lewis <=-
spoke to Terry Roati about Trolls <=-

After being away from Fidonet a long time, why don't we have a IC?

1. an IC died.
2. the ZCC selected a new IC.
3. new IC tried playing numbers games.
4. the ZCC rejected new IC's numbers games.
5. the ZCC removed the new IC from the position.
6. the ZCC has not selected a new IC.
7. the ZCC has been able to handle the main job (nodelist
generation) of the IC.

Acccording to my memory, you have got things out of order.
1&2 are correct.
3. The ZCC elected a new IC. (Who was also ZC3).
4. The old IC tried playing numbers games.
5. The ZCC rejected old IC's numbrs games.
6. The new IC quietly faded into the sunset after a period of time,
perhaps resigned (not sure).
7. The ZCC has not selected a new IC. (your 6).
8. (your 7).
9. For the most part, it no longer matters.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:12:21, 17 Sep 2019
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Dale,

Acccording to my memory, you have got things out of order.
1&2 are correct.
3. The ZCC elected a new IC. (Who was also ZC3).
4. The old IC tried playing numbers games.
5. The ZCC rejected old IC's numbrs games.
6. The new IC quietly faded into the sunset after a period of time,
perhaps resigned (not sure).
7. The ZCC has not selected a new IC. (your 6).
8. (your 7).
9. For the most part, it no longer matters.

And so history is re-written ... more than once ... to satisfy the wildest desires of some ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

It would be a GoodThing(tm) if we could get our collective shit together we >> enough to table a working policy that the RCs could work with and agree to, >> and pass into policy.

Patience my rusty-mailbox friend...

I do try to be patient.. :)

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Since re-joining Fidonet after 16 years, one observation is that there are too many sysops wearing too many hats.

Saying that it may have been necessary at the time and just left like that.

More help is better, if you can find volunteers.

For example, there a number of sysops moderating a lot echos, IMHO sysops themselves should try to limit this by asking echo particpants if they would be interested in taking over the moderator position.

The same situation. Are there users who would step up?

If positions in Fidonet are spread around the group will become more of a community working together, there will always be the odd idiot but they become easier to deal with if the group is strong.

Our numbers a small now, users and sysops alike.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 2019 Sep 16 10:32:34, you wrote to me:

NOTE: top posting fixed in below quote... please post inline... it is
much preferred to top posting...

Oh not THIS shit again from you.

i think you have me confused with someone else... i rarely comment about it and generally fix the shit silently...

Inline versus top-posting is a problem you have that makes my problems less trivial, thus brightening my gloomy day.

i'm glad to help :)

1. an IC died.
2. the ZCC selected a new IC.
3. new IC tried playing numbers games.
4. the ZCC rejected new IC's numbers games.
5. the ZCC removed the new IC from the position.
6. the ZCC has not selected a new IC.
7. the ZCC has been able to handle the main job (nodelist generation)
of th IC.

I had asked a few times over the years, including after being elected

ZC1,

for anyone to clearly prove to me that the IC / ZC2 had acted inappropriately or really in fact has the little pointed ears and

pitchfork

tail.

i do not recall and specific requests from you about that...

Actual *evidence*. Not any stories of that he said this, he said that shit. I mean a solid archive of mail sent my way for me to study.

apparently you missed the original post in FIDONEWS (IIRC) about the available archive of the ZCC echo... it was back in 2004, though...


zcc2004.zip 170756 2004 May 21
Messages from ZCC echo in JAM & QWK formats
from sep/2003..may/2004 from ZC4 msgbase as
indicated in fidonews.


it is not yet in my filebase as i've not had time to fully import my files areas from my old system... it will be, soonish... the file in question is easily found on the 'net, though...

http://www.wiamail.de/archiv/pub/fidohist/fidonews/2004/FIDO2121.NWS http://ambrosia60.dd-dns.de/53f8ee03/drv_q/service/ZCC2004.ZIP http://ambrosia60.dd-dns.de/53f8ee03/drv_q/service/ZCC2004M.ZIP


)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... A sheep's life: standing around a few months and then being eaten.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Sep 16 11:32:34, you wrote to Frank Linhares:

It would be a GoodThing(tm) if we could get our collective shit together well enough to table a working policy that the RCs could work with and agree to, and pass into policy.

i still have the files from the last attempt back in Dec 2003... two sets of them, IIRC...

one set is the simple change of section 1.1 para 1... this one change was supposed to show that P4 could actually be updated...

the other set contains more changes including the above one... section 1.3.1 was completely rewritten as was section 8...

there actually should be three or more sets according to the document... one for each of the proposed changes plus ones for the combinations of each of the changes... this because the document is to be presented as a complete whole and not just the individual changes... that indicates separate documents for each change and for each combination of changes... i'm not counting the updated index changes but they, too, should be in each document as well...

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... URA True Northerner if your deep freezer is the back porch.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Sep 17 10:47:24, you wrote to me:

1. an IC died.
2. the ZCC selected a new IC.
3. new IC tried playing numbers games.
4. the ZCC rejected new IC's numbers games.
5. the ZCC removed the new IC from the position.
6. the ZCC has not selected a new IC.
7. the ZCC has been able to handle the main job (nodelist generation)
of the IC.

Since re-joining Fidonet after 16 years, one observation is that there
are too many sysops wearing too many hats.

some say that, yes... it doesn't have anything to do with the above described situation from 2003/2004 though...

Saying that it may have been necessary at the time and just left like that.

kinda still applies today...

For example, there a number of sysops moderating a lot echos, IMHO
sysops themselves should try to limit this by asking echo particpants
if they would be interested in taking over the moderator position.

traditionally, moderators are sysops because they are the ones that created the message areas on their BBSes and decided to share them with other BBSes via FTN transport... it is not a requirement that the moderator be a sysop, though... they only need an operator willing to setup the area and provide links for transportation... how echos are moderated and how the moderator hat is passed is up to each individual echo moderator...

If positions in Fidonet are spread around the group will become more
of a community working together, there will always be the odd idiot
but they become easier to deal with if the group is strong.

moderators are not an officially recognized fidonet entity... in other words they are recognized because their echos are carried but they hold no official position in fidonet like *Cs, node operators, or the newsletter editor...

Just my 2 cents worth.

understood...

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Can't clean my desk until they loosen my striaght jacket ;*)
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Sep 17 02:07:02, you wrote to me:

After being away from Fidonet a long time, why don't we have a IC?

1. an IC died.
2. the ZCC selected a new IC.
3. new IC tried playing numbers games.
4. the ZCC rejected new IC's numbers games.
5. the ZCC removed the new IC from the position.
6. the ZCC has not selected a new IC.
7. the ZCC has been able to handle the main job (nodelist
generation) of the IC.

Acccording to my memory, you have got things out of order.

yes, i did not list that the numbers games came during the replacement process of the 1st new IC when the 2nd one was being chosen... i definitely remembered the numbers games where "1 ZC == 1 vote" and the IC being removed attempted to redefine the voting procedure during the on-going replacement process to be based on percentage of nodes per zone... that would have given the largest zone control over fidonet operations instead of all zones having an equal vote as has been tradition...

updated because the above is too general and doesn't convey all of the available information... i am specifically not using any names... only the hats...

1. ICx died.
2. ZCC selected IC1 (ZC2) as a replacement.
3. a policy complaint reached the IC level.
4. IC1 made a ruling on the PC.
5. ZCC disagreed with IC1's ruling as is their purvue.
6. ZCC decided to replace IC1 during ensuing "debates".
7. ZC3 volunteered and/or was nominated.
8. during the ZCC voting process, IC1 tried playing
numbers games based on the percentage of nodes in
each zone to weight the ZCC vote in their favor.
9. ZCC rejected IC1's numbers games which added fuel
to the fire.
10. ZCC proceeded with their vote.
11. ZCC replaced IC1 with IC2 (ZC3).
12. IC2 (ZC3) stepped down from the IC position a few
years later as they had promised they would do.
13. ZCC has not selected a new IC since.
14. ZCC has handled the main job (nodelist generation)
of the IC.

the nittygritty details are available in the zcc2004.zip archive of posts from the ZCC echo as released by the then ZC4...

9. For the most part, it no longer matters.

agreed to a point...

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Just another inmate in this ASYLUM!!!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Sep 17 09:42:16, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

Acccording to my memory, you have got things out of order.
1&2 are correct.
3. The ZCC elected a new IC. (Who was also ZC3).
4. The old IC tried playing numbers games.
5. The ZCC rejected old IC's numbrs games.
6. The new IC quietly faded into the sunset after a period of time,
perhaps resigned (not sure).
7. The ZCC has not selected a new IC. (your 6).
8. (your 7).
9. For the most part, it no longer matters.

And so history is re-written ... more than once ... to satisfy the

wildest

desires of some ...

sorry, no... history is not rewritten... the details are available and the archive of messages is posted in an article in fidonet newsletter Volume 21, Number 21, 24 May 2004 published by bj”rn felten...

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... It did land, just not in one piece.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

mark,

sorry, no... history is not rewritten... the details are available and
the archive of messages is posted in an article in fidonet newsletter Volume 21, Number 21, 24 May 2004 published by bj”rn felten...

You and a few others have done an excellent job at tearing apart a certain message-flow, recomposing elements in different order and by doing so inventing new truths which have begun to lead their own life.

That's best demonstrated by your story of the P4 update-attempt of which I was in charge. Whatever you were discribing has not been the effort which I tried to keep going despite the counterproductive attitude of some. So if what you described really happened, it was not a part of that policy-update attempt but soething different which was run parallel but totally unrelated.

As the thing with an IC really is, is that he/she cannot function if the ZCC does not act as a team with support for that IC-function.

Back then when I was IC the ZCC effectively stopped functioning as a team January 2001 when David Moufarrege left the stage. From that point on, exactly that same week it became a struggle for power ... suddenly there were secret conversations which nobody could prove nor disprove with shadow ZCs who even didn't run a proper system, who when you crashed them a message PSTN, had a voice answering during their ZMH with what seemed to be Chinese cuss-words. Not more than 2 or 3 garbled messages were received making not much sense but were "interpreted" by another ZC so we would understand "what needed to be understood". But at voting time this Chinese person suddenly wrote very eloquent English.

Mark, I know a scam when I see one ... please do not rewrite history. Maybe do something productive for a change.

Ever since July 6th 2018 there is a new situation and a possibility for the active ZCs to again become a group of people who can function together.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On 17 Sep 19 07:09:32, Mark Lewis said the following to Nick Andre:

i think you have me confused with someone else... i rarely comment about

it

and generally fix the shit silently...

No confusion. You made quite the little nuclear stink about quoting in the DBRIDGE echo sometime back. Just a bunch of stupid shit. Trying to take me to task about chopped off characters, etc. when I believe Rob Swindell told you to go home and fix your buggy RA software. Don't you have the source code?

I had asked a few times over the years, including after being elected for anyone to clearly prove to me that the IC / ZC2 had acted inappropriately or really in fact has the little pointed ears and

i do not recall and specific requests from you about that...

I've asked twice in private to others prior to and post-ZC1 election to avoid a continuation of the zone-wars. I did not ask you, because at the time you were generally acting like a little shit who assumed I just got my node number yesterday or I just took a class in Pascal-101. Sorry, I skipped asking you.

When I asked Ward about the IC story, I was given a point-by-point detailed account of what happened. When asking Bob Seaborn, Ross Cassell, or even mentioning Zone 2, the blunt reply "Ward's a liar and Euro trash... all of fucking Zone 2 is trash". Asked Roy... I did not know a pussy can be pacifist.

Yet, the master of fact-manipulation was hard at work in the ZCCPUBLIC echo, the Fidonews censorship, the version of DB that I published which failed a precious Clam-AV test, and possibly other occasions where she's misquoted or deliberately tried to construe things her way. Wheres Phil Kimble now?

Would you like to hear all the stories and excuses about how Zone 1 segments, Region 12 segments were never right because of BBBS this, BBBS that, Linux this, Linux that? Or are you happy now that I fucking fixed everything?

apparently you missed the original post in FIDONEWS (IIRC) about the

availa

archive of the ZCC echo... it was back in 2004, though...

I already have a vast archive of ZCC and ZCCPUBLIC, I think its a larger
and more concise colection than what is available.

Irrelevant bullshit aside; an IC is needed. An IC cannot function without ZCC cooperation, and certain aspects of P4 cannot be amended/enacted without an IC. If you take off your tinfoil hat and allow fresh air to be exposed to
your head, you'll see that I'm right and where I'm going with this.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 2019 Sep 17 16:39:38, you wrote to me:

sorry, no... history is not rewritten... the details are available
and the archive of messages is posted in an article in fidonet
newsletter Volume 21, Number 21, 24 May 2004 published by bj”rn
felten...

You and a few others have done an excellent job at tearing apart a

certain

message-flow,

i've done no such thing... i read the messages in the order they were presented in the available file... that i didn't list a step or two in my original list was a flaw due to trying to keep the list short and succint without stirring up the shit again... i certainly didn't and don't want to do that...

That's best demonstrated by your story of the P4 update-attempt of which was in charge. Whatever you were discribing has not been the effort which tried to keep going despite the counterproductive attitude of some. So if what you described really happened, it was not a part of that

policy-update

attempt but soething different which was run parallel but totally unrelated.

i guess you forgot about my additional postings of the proposal, then... there was the original which i took and split into two additional proposals that should have been presented in the first place... three proposals in total were presented... i posted the additional two so the RCs could easily see all three complete documents and make a choice of which one they wanted to push forward...

unfortunately, some RCs used antiquated software that choked on messages larger than 8k and requested repostings in smaller chunks... i provided those and then next thing was about some RCs not being able to determine which parts went with which new portions... apparently some were still using the old antiquated subject sorting methodology instead of simply accepting the messages as they were posted/arrived... or they were using software that chopped the subject lines causing lost information concerning the number of the message... i don't know... i didn't dig that far in that area for fear of causing even more confusion...

after there were still problems with the second requested sets of postings, i stopped because it was apparent that some were looking for a way out... i never set out to derail the process but the way the original proposal was presented with multiple changes was flawed according to the procedure described in P4... i regretted then and still regret today that i tried to do what was right and productive for the network...

As the thing with an IC really is, is that he/she cannot function if
the ZCC does not act as a team with support for that IC-function.

i know this...

Back then when I was IC the ZCC effectively stopped functioning as a
team January 2001 when David Moufarrege left the stage. From that
point on, exactly that same week it became a struggle for power ... suddenly there were secret conversations which nobody could prove nor disprove with shadow ZCs who even didn't run a proper system, who when
you crashed them a message PSTN, had a voice answering during their
ZMH with what seemed to be Chinese cuss-words. Not more than 2 or 3 garbled messages were received making not much sense but were "interpreted" by another ZC so we would understand "what needed to be understood". But at voting time this Chinese person suddenly wrote
very eloquent English.

whatever, ward... i've read it all several times over the years...

Mark, I know a scam when I see one ... please do not rewrite history.

there's no scam attempts or rewriting of history on my part, sir... i'll thank you and others to stop suggesting there are... NONE of you have approached me and even asked any questions... N O T A S I N G L E O N E O F Y O U...

Maybe do something productive for a change.

yeah, maybe i'll do just that again :eyeroll:

Ever since July 6th 2018 there is a new situation and a possibility
for the active ZCs to again become a group of people who can function together.

that's a GoodThing<tm> and i applaude the attempt(s) if they are successful or not...

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Amish safe sex: painting an "X" on the cows that kick.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi Alan,

On Sep 17, 2019 05:38am, Alan Ianson wrote to Terry Roati:

The same situation. Are there users who would step up?

We will only know if they are asked.

Our numbers a small now, users and sysops alike.

Exactly why getting more people involved the better, of course that depends if they want to.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

The same situation. Are there users who would step up?

We will only know if they are asked.

I did have many users online in the 90's. One of them was a moderator or co-moderator of an echo. I have forgotten the names/dates/places now.

If anyone here asked about that I would certainly help out with that.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Alan,

On Sep 17, 2019 06:45pm, Alan Ianson wrote to Terry Roati:

If anyone here asked about that I would certainly help out with that.

It was just a suggestion, it would be pointless if the user wasn't interested in the Echo they were to take over as a Moderator.

Unfortunately the old days are gone, I used live and run my BBS in the Philipines, the BBS community there was amazing, Sysops / Users / local PC Magazine support even some communications company support to get international mail and files. Have a look at the below link if interested.

https://tfb-bbs.org/public/fidophil/f-menu.htm


Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Terry,

Unfortunately the old days are gone, I used live and run my BBS in the Philipines, the BBS community there was amazing, Sysops / Users / local
PC Magazine support even some communications company support to get international mail and files. Have a look at the below link if
interested.

Those were the days.

We had sysop meetings every month ending with a dinner. We had an annual, nearly more formal I dare to say, sysop-dinner. Very very active community. I even nearly miss the warz ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Would you like to hear all the stories and excuses about how Zone 1 segments, Region 12 segments were never right because of BBBS this, BBBS that, Linux this, Linux that? Or are you happy now that I fucking fixed everything?

Tell us how you really feel, lol.

Irrelevant bullshit aside; an IC is needed. An IC cannot function
without ZCC cooperation, and certain aspects of P4 cannot be amended/enacted without an IC. If you take off your tinfoil hat and
allow fresh air to be exposed to your head, you'll see that I'm right
and where I'm going with this.

It's more than just certain aspects of P4, it is the entire policy that can't change without an IC. Still not sure what the hold up is getting one
appointed.

|15frank |08// |15netsurge
|07disksh0p|08!|07bbs |08% |07bbs.diskshop.ca |08% |07mystic goodness |11SciNet |03ftn hq |08% |07https://diskshop.ca/scinet

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
* Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (1:229/101)

Re: Re: Trolls
By: Ward Dossche to Terry Roati on Wed Sep 18 2019 07:59 am

We had sysop meetings every month ending with a dinner. We had an annual, nearly more formal I dare to say, sysop-dinner. Very very active

community.

I even nearly miss the warz ...

Nowadays, with the internet, we'll have to settle for having drinks during the MRC chat meetups during the week.
--- SBBSecho 3.09-Win32
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Hi Ward,

On Sep 18, 2019 07:59am, Ward Dossche wrote to Terry Roati:

We had sysop meetings every month ending with a dinner. We had an
annual, nearly more formal I dare to say, sysop-dinner. Very very
active community. I even nearly miss the warz ...

It is a shame really, one made friends for life, as you said it was a community of generally like minded people.

When back in Manila I usually meet up with a bunch of ex-sysops, I haven't
been this year but planning to go early next year.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Hello Nick!

17 Sep 19 11:44, you wrote to Mark Lewis:

Would you like to hear all the stories and excuses about how Zone 1 segments, Region 12 segments were never right because of BBBS this,
BBBS that, Linux this, Linux that? Or are you happy now that I fucking fixed everything?

I noticed that after you took over, the issues I was having with my Region 16 segment changes being made and reverted every other day immediately ceased. It was blamed on MakeNL at the time, IIRC.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

It was blamed on MakeNL at the time, IIRC.

The person putting that blame on MakeNL said it had to do with how wildcards were interpreted on said ZC's Linux system.

Whether or not that is so. I don't know.

It was also rumoured that you were told/ordered to look into it because said ZC had a problem admiting that he/she was unable to properly generate a nodelist ... therefor the blame needed to be shifted elsewhere ...

In Fido-talk that is called "Pulling a Witt".

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hi Andrew,

17 Sep 19 11:44, you wrote to Mark Lewis:

Would you like to hear all the stories and excuses about how Zone 1
segments, Region 12 segments were never right because of BBBS this,
BBBS that, Linux this, Linux that? Or are you happy now that I fucking
fixed everything?

I noticed that after you took over, the issues I was having with my Region

16

segment changes being made and reverted every other day immediately ceased. It was blamed on MakeNL at the time, IIRC.

Right, IIRC my linux box at the time needed the 'current' segs be placed in makenl's inbox so they would be always finally available at production time.

I could be mistaken, but I believe Nick came to the same conclusion and also that is how he creates the files now?

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hi Ward,

It was also rumoured that you were told/ordered to look into it because said >ZC had a problem admiting that he/she was unable to properly generate a >nodelist ... therefor the blame needed to be shifted elsewhere ...

I don't remember "ordering" anything, but if I'm wrong one of the RCs will remind me of that one :)

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Janis,

I don't remember "ordering" anything, but if I'm wrong one of the RCs
will remind me of that one :)

I didn't mention your name ... there were at least 2 ZCs at that moment running a Linux system.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On 19 Sep 19 16:57:52, Janis Kracht said the following to Andrew Leary:

Right, IIRC my linux box at the time needed the 'current' segs be placed

in

makenl's inbox so they would be always finally available at production

time

I could be mistaken, but I believe Nick came to the same conclusion and

als

that is how he creates the files now?

Only two DOS batch files are used to run all of ZC1.

The first runs frequently to "sweep" any received segments into staging directories, sending Ack Netmails to RC's clearly showing the date and time. Logs and copies are generated. A backup-set is automatically managed.

The second does all the work. It does the actual compiling based on received segments; but if a segment for a given period is not received, it will use the last received segment from the previous run. There are some custom utilities I wrote to ensure this is done based on the date-stamp, not the day-of-year. It is also totally irrelevant what "order" of files MakeNL processes here.

Because Manuel does not send me segments recently, that is why Zone 1 uses what it has.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 19/09/2019 21:56, Ward Dossche -> Andrew Leary wrote:

In Fido-talk that is called "Pulling a Witt".

He'll be back soon....

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Straylia Mate (3:640/305)

On 2019 Sep 19 23:41:52, you wrote to Janis Kracht:

I don't remember "ordering" anything, but if I'm wrong one of the RCs
will remind me of that one :)

I didn't mention your name ... there were at least 2 ZCs at that
moment running a Linux system.

but only one having problems... at least only one that posted in the makenl echo about the problem they were having... process of elimination shows who you were talking about :shrug:

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Turkey burger: 59% lessfat, 120% less taste.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)