Scientists have calculated that enough ice to cover the entire USA with a three meter thick layer has melted since 1974 -- and is accelerating.

It's about time that the people in NYC and Miami starts looking for a good pair of Wellingtons... 8-)



..

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Bj�rn Felten wrote to All <=-

Scientists have calculated that enough ice to cover the entire
USA with a three meter thick layer has melted since 1974 -- and
is accelerating.

How thick would that be if it covered all of Sweden?

It's about time that the people in NYC and Miami starts
looking for a good pair of Wellingtons... 8-)

I'm sure the cause of this (supposed) fact is all the fault of the USA
too, right?

How about a reference/citation to the source of this info?

(Taking bets that it comes from some leftist-propaganda rag).



... Something will have to be done, something irresponsible.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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I'm sure the cause of this (supposed) fact is all the fault of the USA too, right?

Not all, but with a population of 4% and responsible for 20% of all pollution, you are unproportionally responsible, yes.

How about a reference/citation to the source of this info?

No problem:

https://tinyurl.com/y35ha5p3

(Taking bets that it comes from some leftist-propaganda rag).

It's the Swedish state television, and since Sweden is a socialist country (with free childcare, free healthcare, 5 weeks paid vacation, 18 months paid leave for either parent after child birth, affordable housing and all that crap, you know) so in your book it's probably leftist, although not propaganda -- that's against the law on Swedish television.




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Björn wrote (2021-01-30):

I'm sure the cause of this (supposed) fact is all the fault of the
USA too, right?

Not all, but with a population of 4% and responsible for 20% of all pollution, you are unproportionally responsible, yes.

If the other 96% would raise their pollution levels to the same amount, we would be at 5000%. Growth is good, right?

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

Growth is good, right?

Absolutely. Endless growth is the Ponzi scheme that capitalism relies upon. Enormous wealth to everybody. Yeah!



..

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Hello Bj�rn,

On Saturday January 30 2021 10:19, you wrote to Oli:

Growth is good, right?

Absolutely. Endless growth is the Ponzi scheme that capitalism
relies upon. Enormous wealth to everybody. Yeah!

I have always wondered how people can beleive that a system that relies on continues growth can have a long term future...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

MvdV> I have always wondered how people can beleive that a system that relies
MvdV> on continues growth can have a long term future...

A lot of people have not been taught critical thinking at school. They believe everything they are being told. Inject bleach or stick a UV light up your ass to cure you from COVID-19, the election was rigged, USA is a democracy (blissfully unaware of Gerrymandering and Electoral College) and so on.



..

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Bj�rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I'm sure the cause of this (supposed) fact is all the fault of the USA too, right?

Not all, but with a population of 4% and responsible for 20%
of all pollution, you are unproportionally responsible, yes.

So, if we were to shut down all of the manufacturing/industry that
contributes to this, how would the world react? Should we also shut
down the defense mechanisms that keep you safe over there?

How about a reference/citation to the source of this info?

No problem:
https://tinyurl.com/y35ha5p3

Heh, yeah that's very helpful. :-)

(Taking bets that it comes from some leftist-propaganda rag).

It's the Swedish state television, and since Sweden is a
socialist country (with free childcare, free healthcare, 5 weeks
paid vacation, 18 months paid leave for either parent after child
birth, affordable housing and all that crap, you know) so in your
book it's probably leftist, although not propaganda -- that's
against the law on Swedish television.

Yep, everything's "free". What a utopian society that must be. LOL


... Something will have to be done, something irresponsible.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Bj�rn Felten wrote to Oli <=-

Growth is good, right?

Absolutely. Endless growth is the Ponzi scheme that capitalism
relies upon. Enormous wealth to everybody. Yeah!

A typical lib/socialist misunderstanding. Capitalism doesn't promise
enormous wealth to everybody. What it does is provide the
*OPPORTUNITY* for you to try and achieve that, with a reasonable
chance of success.

Does that opportunity exist for you Euro-commies? If you *DID* start
to become too successful (in the eyes of the masters), they would step
in and take it away from you, for the "good of the state".

I guess your "free education" system doesn't teach you that, eh?



... No one is listening until you make a mistake.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Does that opportunity exist for you Euro-commies?

Well, IKEA founder Swedish Ingvar Kamprad (now dead) was the fifth richest man in the world. Does that answer your stupid, ignorant question?

Does your inferior educational system not teach you the difference between socialism and communism -- or do you still have the same old McCarthyism with the same commie scare?

Socialism = slavery, eh?


..

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Bj�rn Felten wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-

A lot of people have not been taught critical thinking at school.
They believe everything they are being told. Inject bleach or stick a
UV light up your ass to cure you from COVID-19, the election was
rigged, USA is a democracy (blissfully unaware of Gerrymandering and Electoral College) and so on.

Two experiences that I benefited from was 1) a critical thinking class in college that included a debate piece as well as dissecting various attempts
to manipulate the reader, the Skeptic's board (a BBS in the San Francisco
Bay Area) in the 1990s, and the old Fido SKEPTIC echo.

There's a lot to be said for questioning claims and asking for citations or backup - that shows the true basis of the claim. Too many debates online
fall into buckets similar to these.

1. The claimant has a solid reference backing up their claim.

2. The claimant cites an obscure web source that either validates a portion
of their claim, doesn't validate it at all (and they expect you not to read it!)

3. The claimant states that their claim is so prevalent that it doesn't require validation - or they claim that there are so many citations out
there that they leave the proof of their claim up to you.

or

4. (insert organization here) is in bed with mainstream media, and since you don't read the same web sites the claimant does, you're ill-informed.


It's gotten pretty predictable.





... Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Very well analysed, Kurt!

3. The claimant states that their claim is so prevalent that it doesn't require validation - or they claim that there are so many citations out there that they leave the proof of their claim up to you.

Hmmm... A certain, former POTUS I know of was a master of this, using it hundreds of times.



..

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4. (insert organization here) is in bed with mainstream media, and since you don't read the same web sites the claimant does, you're ill-informed.

... and of course this too. FAKE NEWS!!!



..

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Bj�rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Does that opportunity exist for you Euro-commies?

Well, IKEA founder Swedish Ingvar Kamprad (now dead) was the
fifth richest man in the world. Does that answer your stupid,
ignorant question?

Blah, blah-blah-blah, blah. Why did he live in Switzerland for four
decades, after he got rich?

Does your inferior educational system not teach you the
difference between socialism and communism -- or do you still
have the same old McCarthyism with the same commie scare?

LOL. You should have stayed in school.

Socialism = slavery, eh?

Pretty much, yep. Ask somebody in Venezuela.

By the way, I won't continue to respond to your posts when you
selectively cherry-pick one sentence from a three paragraph post that
I made (like you did above). You do that to avoid having to respond
to the rest of what I said, and to remove any context that might make
the meaning of my one sentence quite different than what you want it
to appear as.

Another typical Lib tactic, very common, and very deceitful.


... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

By the way, I won't continue to respond to your posts

Excellent.



..

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Dan wrote (2021-01-30):

I won't continue to respond to your posts

brilliant idea

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

Bj�rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

By the way, I won't continue to respond to your posts

Excellent.

For context, since the feeb known as Bj?rn loves to snip relevant
context, the below is what he cherry-picked the line above from (in a
previous post of mine):

By the way, I won't continue to respond to your posts when you
selectively cherry-pick one sentence from a three paragraph post that
I made (like you did above). You do that to avoid having to respond
to the rest of what I said, and to remove any context that might make
the meaning of my one sentence quite different than what you want it
to appear as.

Another typical Lib tactic, very common, and very deceitful.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I won't continue to respond to your posts

brilliant idea

Another context-snipper. Maybe you're another of Bj?rn's
sock-puppets?

Hey Oli. FOAD.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Dan wrote (2021-01-31):

I won't continue to respond to your posts

then don't

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

loves to snip relevant context

That's right, with emphasis on *relevant*. Snipping out only the relevant part of a comment is called quote trimming, as opposed to excessive quoting -- some people even quotes the entire message.

Every fido editor developed after 17 December 1971 (when FTS-9 was introduced) should be able of comment linking for the benefit of those who can't even remember what they wrote only a few days ago.



..

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Hello Björn,

loves to snip relevant context

That's right, with emphasis on *relevant*. Snipping out only the relevant part of a comment is called quote trimming, as opposed to excessive quoting
-- some people even quotes the entire message.

A man acting as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

Every fido editor developed after 17 December 1971 (when FTS-9 was introduced) should be able of comment linking for the benefit of those who can't even remember what they wrote only a few days ago.

That may be. But how relevant is that in this day and age?
We have a man here in the USA, a former president, who is about
to be put on trial for "high crimes and misdemeanors", which
if conviced may mean the end of his political career. And what
has he done? He fired all five of his lawyers, just before the
trial is to begin. So who did he hire? Himself! You think I am
making this up? I do admit to have somewhat of an overactive
imagination at times, but this is something else!

Trump to Defend Self After Receiving Law Degree from Trump University

PALM BEACH (The Borowitz Report)—Donald J. Trump will act as his own
defense attorney at his impeachment trial after receiving a law degree
from Trump University.

Trump bestowed the degree upon himself in his capacity as the dean of
the Trump University School of Law, where he graduated first in his
class.

In his first official statement as the lead attorney of his defense
team, Trump vowed not to quit the team “like those other losers.”

Davis Logsdon, a law professor at the University of Minnesota, called
Trump’s new status as his own attorney “problematic.”

“It’s true that he will now have a fool for a client, but that was
also true of his other attorneys,” Logsdon said. “One downside of
working for himself, however, is that he definitely will not get paid.”

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-to-defend-self -after-receiving-law-degree-from-trump-university


Let's see Dan C. top that!

--Lee

--
Probably the best beer in the world

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Davis Logsdon, a law professor at the University of Minnesota, called Trump’s new status as his own attorney “problematic.”

A search for Mr. Davis for the last seven days on the Washington Post website gave no hits.

Are you sure this is not Fake News?



..

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We have a man here in the USA, a former president, who is about
to be put on trial

His only defence seems to be that the trial is unconstitutional because he is no longer president. What kind of crazy talk is that? After all, he committed the crime when in office. The House voted to impeach him while he was still in office.

Imagine a chief accountant that is caught embezzling and is charged with the crime, and then he is fired. On his trial he claims the the trial is unconstitutional because he no longer works for the company in question.

What kind of crazy talk is that? He'd probably do better by claiming insanity. That'll probably work for Trump as well, there are many witnesses that can confirm that he was -- and still is -- insane.



..

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Re: Global warming
By: Bj�rn Felten to Dan Clough on Sun Jan 31 2021 05:11 pm

Every fido editor developed after 17 December 1971 (when FTS-9 was introduced) should be able of comment linking for the benefit of those who can't even remember what they wrote only a few days ago.

That date is a joke, right?
--
digital man

Rush quote #56:
His world is under anesthetic, subdivided and synthetic .. Digital Man
Norco, CA WX: 61.2�F, 42.0% humidity, 3 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
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Rob wrote (2021-01-31):

Re: Global warming
By: Björn Felten to Dan Clough on Sun Jan 31 2021 05:11 pm

Every fido editor developed after 17 December 1971 (when FTS-9 was
introduced) should be able of comment linking for the benefit of
those who can't even remember what they wrote only a few days ago.

That date is a joke, right?

I thought so too, but it also could be a typo. The correct date would be 17 December 1991. Still 29+ years.

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

That date is a joke, right?

LOL! Rather a typo. Good catch!

MSGID / REPLY
A standard for unique message identifiers
and reply chain linkage

17 December, 1991





..

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That date is a joke, right?

LOL! Rather a typo. Good catch!

It was so obvious I didn't ever bother to respond.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec.21 2020
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

That date is a joke, right?

I thought so too, but it also could be a typo. The correct date would be
17 December 1991. Still 29+ years.

Substituting one typo for another?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec.21 2020
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Björn,

Davis Logsdon, a law professor at the University of Minnesota, called
Trump’s new status as his own attorney “problematic.”

A search for Mr. Davis for the last seven days on the Washington Post website gave no hits.

Are you sure this is not Fake News?

Humor. Not alternative facts. As noted in the cite.
Do pay attention. :)

--Lee

--
Probably the best beer in the world

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

That date is a joke, right?

LOL! Rather a typo. Good catch!

MSGID / REPLY
A standard for unique message identifiers
and reply chain linkage

17 December, 1991

Yeah. I get that. And it is funny. Stuff like that does happen.
But this particular date is also signifincant in other ways.

The date you cited - 17 December 1971

What happened on that day in history?
Radio Bangladesh begins transmitting.

So was it really a typo?
Or is it something that you don't want to tell us?

Did Fidonet really begin, at a secret location, in Bangladesh?
With Tom Jennings providing cover in San Francisco, USA?

The only thing of real importance I could find was Honky Dory,
the album released by David Bowie on that date, after his album
from 1970, The Man Who Sold the World.

A truly great artist, he is still missed by many on this planet,
and beyond.

Of course, others have chimed in, suggesting the correct
date should have been 17 December, 1991.

What happeed on that day in history?
Cleveland Cavaliers beat Miami Heat 148-80, by 68 points.
This was the NBA's most lopsided game in history.

Then I started thinking it was only the year you were confused
about. Not so much the date itself. So I took a looksee to find
out what is so special about that certain day of the year.

And lo and behold, lookee at what I found -

EVENTS

17 December 1790 - discovery of the Aztec calendar stone
17 December 1903 - first flight of the Wright flyer
17 December 1989 - first episode of The Simpsons aired

BIRTHDAYS

17 December 1978 - Manny Pacquiao
17 December 1936 - Pope Francis
17 December 1770 - Ludwig van Beethoven

DEATHS

17 December 2011 - Kim Jong II
17 December 2010 - Captain Beefheart
17 December 1933 - 13th Dalai Lama
17 December 1830 - Simon Bolivar
17 December 1273 - Rumi

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 30/01/2021 09:04, 1123/115 wrote:

I'm sure the cause of this (supposed) fact is all the fault of the USA too, right?

Surely a three metre thick ice covering over USA wouldn't be anyone else's fault?

How about a reference/citation to the source of this info?

(Taking bets that it comes from some leftist-propaganda rag).

ROFL

Definition of Unbiased News : News that agrees with my opinion.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 31/01/2021 02:18, 2203/2 wrote:

   Does your inferior educational system not teach you the difference between socialism and communism -- or do you still have the same old McCarthyism with the same commie scare?

   Socialism = slavery, eh?

I see Biden is trying to increase the minimum wage in USA. The current one is little better than slavery.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 1/02/2021 00:22, 1123/115 wrote:

Another typical Lib tactic, very common, and very deceitful.

ROFL.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 1/02/2021 00:23, 1123/115 wrote:

Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

 DC>> I won't continue to respond to your posts

 Ol>> brilliant idea

Another context-snipper.  Maybe you're another of Bj?rn's
sock-puppets?

Hey Oli.  FOAD.

That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

I see Biden is trying to increase the minimum wage in USA. The current
one is little better than slavery.

Objections from some senators: But then McDonald goes bankrupt!

Blissfully unaware of the fact that even Washington D.C. already has minimum wage $15. And so has many other US cities: Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and more. McDonald still thriving there, albeit with a hefty 0.4% loss for the share holders. Corporate capitalism in a nutshell...



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
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That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

Another typical Clough tactic, very common, and very deceitful.





..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

I see Biden is trying to increase the minimum wage in USA. The current
one is little better than slavery.

Objections from some senators: But then McDonald goes bankrupt!

Old McDonald had a farm.
E-I-E-I-O!
And on his farm he had a cow.
E-I-E-I-O!

Today that farm has gotten much larger.
And it is not just cows and knick knacks
that are raised.

The family farm has gone the way of the dinosaur.
It is all Big Business today. Most farmers have sold
their land and moved to the cities. It is the only
they can survive.

Blissfully unaware of the fact that even Washington D.C. already has minimum
wage $15. And so has many other US cities: Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and more.

New Orleans is a city. And a parish (county). Both the city and
the parish tried to set a minimum wage twice as high as the federally
mandated minimum wage. The courts overturned their attempts, ruling
them unconstitutional due to the state of Louisiana not having a
minimum wage, claiming that only the state of Louisiana had the
legal right to do so.

By not having a minimum wage, the state of Louisiana allows the
federally mandated minimum wage to be the lowest an employer can
pay its workers. Meaning that no other government entity (such
as a city or a parish) can set any wage higher.

Business is in business to make a profit.
The lower the costs, the more profit to be made.

There are a few other states (all in the South) which use the
same principle. Keeps the employees loyal to the company who they
work for.

OTOH, Sweden also has no minimum wage ...

McDonald still thriving there, albeit with a hefty 0.4% loss for the share holders. Corporate capitalism in a nutshell...

The top three cities in the USA for fast food per capita are
in Louisiana. McDonalds does very well in those cities.

Louisiana - McDonald's favorite kind of place.

--Lee

--
Popular vote!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello David,

Does your inferior educational system not teach you the difference
between socialism and communism -- or do you still have the same old
McCarthyism with the same commie scare?

Socialism = slavery, eh?

I see Biden is trying to increase the minimum wage in USA. The current one is little better than slavery.

Louisiana has no minimum wage. Neither does Sweden.
What does Australia pretend to have?

--Lee

--
Not my president!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

David wrote (2021-02-02):

That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

I'll attack the mail software

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge? Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

Hi! Oli,

On 02/02/2021 05:17 PM, you wrote to David Drummond:

That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

I'll attack the mail software

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0)

Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi

* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge? Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

When I had a Windows JamNNTPd server running in Windows 98SE, it never quoted the correct value all year. It would insert a DST value when we never observed that aberration. So, I turned off that option.

Perhaps he has the same trouble?[shrug]

How's mine? (I'll see after it's sent...)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: If it itches, it will be scratched. (3:640/1384.125)

OTOH, Sweden also has no minimum wage ...

That's true. Here it's voluntary. Unions set the "entry level" wages by collective agreements with the employers, and the employee is free to join a union or not. Usually they do join (90% do). 8-)

Those collective agreements sets not only the entry level wages but all kinds of benefits and duties. The entry level wages depends on a lot of various factors such as branch, education, previous experience and so on, so there's no fixed minimum wage -- it varies widely.



..

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Paul wrote (2021-02-02):

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC
kludge? Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

When I had a Windows JamNNTPd server running in Windows 98SE, it never quoted the correct value all year. It would insert a DST value when we never observed that aberration. So, I turned off that option.

Perhaps he has the same trouble?[shrug]

How's mine? (I'll see after it's sent...)

Looks good, your mail is not from the future. Time is displayed as 08:43 (my local time is 08:54).

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge? Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

There's really no need for that kludge when using Thunderbird, it takes care of that without the need for a fido kludge. This is what it looks like in the message you are quoting:

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 06:27:40 GMT

Displays perfectly here as 07:27 (I too has local time UTC+1).



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

It would insert a DST value when we never observed that aberration.

Lucky you! When Sweden reintroduced DST in the mid 1980s almost everyone objected. Not only was it an unnecessary work going around, setting all clocks and watches twice a year, it even caused problems for the dairy farmers who never managed to teach their cows to change their milking time.

A couple of years ago EU tried to tell the member states to abandon this shite, but the various countries cannot agree upon using summertime or wintertime, so the decree is still not implemented. :(


..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hi! Oli,

On 02 Feb 2021, Oli said the following...

@TZUTC: 0100

How's mine? (I'll see after it's sent...)

Looks good, your mail is not from the future. Time is displayed as 08:43 (my local time is 08:54).

Yes. It's displaying your local time for when I launched the note at my end. It was 17:43 AEST here. Your 9 hour difference shows.

Apologies if I'm telling you something already known to you.

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/32)
* Origin: Paul's Pile of Polygonal Pebbles (3:640/1138)

Hiya!

On 02 Feb 2021, Bj�rn Felten said the following...

Lucky you! When Sweden reintroduced DST in the mid 1980s almost everyone objected. Not only was it an unnecessary work going around, setting all clocks and watches twice a year, it even caused problems for the dairy farmers who never managed to teach their cows to change their milking time.

The going joke here was the curtains faded mode rapidly. We have three
states and an island state that toy with their time pieces twice a year, minimum. Oh, the fun!

My sister who lives in Adelaide (South Australia) is normally a half-hour behind Queensland (my loc.) but DST puts her a half-hour ahead in summer. Hardly normal, hey. I love 'listenin'g to her mental gyrations when she
calls me. ;)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/32)
* Origin: Quinn's Rock - stuck in another Linux VM, again! (3:640/1384)

We have three
states and an island state that toy with their time pieces twice a year, minimum. Oh, the fun!

Yeah, that sounds like fun. If I remember correctly from the Y2K celebrations you even have a point where three different time zones meet, so with just a few small steps you can time travel back and forth. Right?

Sweden is fortunate enough to have longitude 15 (UTC+1) running right through the middle of our country. That means that true noon in Stockholm is at 11:54 and in Gothenburg at 12:12. Those are the two biggest cities here.

The two extremes, Str�mstad in the west and Haparanda in the east, both tiny cities with about 7,000 citizens, have true noon at 12:16 and 11:24 respectively.

Now moving the clock one hour actually means a lot here.


..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
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true noon in Stockholm is at 11:54

I guess nobody will notice, but I made yet another number typo. True noon in Stockholm is at 11:44.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hi!

On 02 Feb 2021, Bj�rn Felten said the following...

Yeah, that sounds like fun. If I remember correctly from the Y2K celebrations you even have a point where three different time zones
meet, so with just a few small steps you can time travel back and forth. Right?

Yes. David has been there, and done that. I haven't seen the t-shirt, yet. :)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/32)
* Origin: Quinn's Rock - stuck in another Linux VM, again! (3:640/1384)

On 2/02/2021 13:44, 2203/2 wrote:

 BF>>> Socialism = slavery, eh?

 DD>> I see Biden is trying to increase the minimum wage in USA. The

current one

 DD>> is little better than slavery.

Louisiana has no minimum wage. Neither does Sweden.
What does Australia pretend to have?

Australia does have a "national minimum wage", although I have never been employed here at that level.

A quick Google (yes, Google still works in Aus but I don't know for how much longer) shows:

"As of 1 July 2020 the national minimum wage is $19.84 per hour or $753.80 per week. Employees covered by an award or registered agreement are entitled to the minimum pay rates, including penalty rates and allowances in their award or agreement. These pay rates may be higher than the National Minimum Wage."

My calculator tells me that this is for a 38 hour week. That makes a little over $39,000 per annum. They would have to pay income tax on 21K of that.

My Government funded old age pension pays me a little over $11.00 per hour (weekly total amount/38). I do not pay any tax on that. I get lots of pensioner discounts too.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 17:17, 2280/464.47 wrote:

 DD>> That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

I'll attack the mail software

 DD>> --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0)

Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi

 DD>>   * Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge?

Do I need one of those, or is it just more clutter to compensate for my diminutive genitalia?

Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

Still seems to send/receive message OK.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 17:43, 3640/1384.125 wrote:

; If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge?
; Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

When I had a Windows JamNNTPd server running in Windows 98SE, it never quoted the correct value all year.  It would insert a DST value when we never observed that aberration.  So, I turned off that option.

Perhaps he has the same trouble?[shrug]

It was set up some years ago - I don't remember all of the tweaks that were done to make it "stable".

It it works then don't fix it.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 18:20, 2203/2 wrote:

; If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge?
; Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

   There's really no need for that kludge when using Thunderbird, it takes care of that without the need for a fido kludge. This is what it looks like in the message you are quoting:

   Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 06:27:40 GMT

   Displays perfectly here as 07:27 (I too has local time UTC+1).

My local time is UTC+10

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 06:27:40 GMT

Displays perfectly here as 07:27 (I too has local time UTC+1).

My local time is UTC+10

So we can conclude that you posted your message at 16:27:40 local time, then. That's half past four in the afternoon for those backward people who still insist on that AM/PM crap... 8-)



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Paul wrote (2021-02-02):

Hi! Oli,

On 02 Feb 2021, Oli said the following...

@TZUTC: 0100

How's mine? (I'll see after it's sent...)

Looks good, your mail is not from the future. Time is displayed as
08:43 (my local time is 08:54).

Yes. It's displaying your local time for when I launched the note at my end. It was 17:43 AEST here. Your 9 hour difference shows.

I know, I intentionally set my mail client to use local time in the message list.
The message itself shows your local time and TZ.

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 18:30:33 +1000
X-JAM-FTSKLUDGE: TZUTC: 1000

Apologies if I'm telling you something already known to you.

Apologies accepted ;-)
(I mean no apologies needed)

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

David wrote (2021-02-02):

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC
kludge?

Do I need one of those, or is it just more clutter to compensate for my diminutive genitalia?

You don't need it, but it helps others to see the correct time in their mail readers.

I just looked at the jamnntpd commit log. TZUTC is supported since JamNNTPd 0.6 wich has been released in 2004.

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

On 02 Feb 2021, Bj�rn Felten said the following...

Lucky you! When Sweden reintroduced DST in the mid 1980s almost everyone objected. Not only was it an unnecessary work going around, setting all clocks and watches twice a year, it even caused problems for the dairy farmers who never managed to teach their cows to change their milking time.

I have a schedule with my dogs that I'm good with. 3pm Is a time I let the girls outside run around and such. Then one day they started raising a
rucjus at 2pm. It took me several days to realize we had switched to
Standard time from DST but dogs can read a clock, they just think I'm maling them wait longer for their excercise.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:106/127)

but dogs can read a clock

It's a bummer that we can't teach our animals to read the clock. Before I retired, I used most of my working time programming. When I was programming, I usually lost time completely.

But my dog used to come down into my office around 02:00 reminding me that it was time to go walkie and then go to bed. He never missed with more than a few minutes. But obviously that darn DST made him "miss" by an hour.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 02 Feb 2021, Bj�rn Felten said the following...

but dogs can read a clock

I really need to watch for my typos better.

programming, I usually lost time completely.

But my dog used to come down into my office around 02:00 reminding me that it was time to go walkie and then go to bed. He never missed with more than a few minutes. But obviously that darn DST made him "miss" by
an hour.

I felt bad when I realized that I was telling my dogs to be quiet because
they wete too early, when actually they weren't, the time was wrong.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:106/127)

Hello Bj�rn,

OTOH, Sweden also has no minimum wage ...

That's true. Here it's voluntary. Unions set the "entry level" wages by collective agreements with the employers, and the employee is free to join a union or not. Usually they do join (90% do). 8-)

Those collective agreements sets not only the entry level wages but all kinds of benefits and duties. The entry level wages depends on a lot of various factors such as branch, education, previous experience and so on, so there's no fixed minimum wage -- it varies widely.

Various states (all in the South) solved that problem by passing
"right to work" laws, thus effectively doing away with unions and
collective agreements.

--Lee

--
It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2/02/2021 20:20, 2203/2 wrote:
 BF>> true noon in Stockholm is at 11:54

   I guess nobody will notice, but I made yet another number typo. True noon in Stockholm is at 11:44.

Maybe a requirement for new spectacles?

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Chinchilla, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 20:28, 3640/1384 wrote:

 BF>>     Yeah, that sounds like fun. If I remember correctly from the Y2K
 BF>> celebrations you even have a point where three different time zones
 BF>> meet, so with just a few small steps you can time travel back and forth.
 BF>> Right?

Yes.  David has been there, and done that.  I haven't seen the t-shirt, yet.
:)

I used to have a photo on my web page of my ex sitting on the post at Cameron Corner where Qld, NSW and SA meet.

I had the photo captioned "An arse that covers three states". I was not in the good books for a while (cannot imagine why...)


--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Chinchilla, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 21:12, 2203/2 wrote:

 BF>>>      Displays perfectly here as 07:27 (I too has local time UTC+1).

 DD>> My local time  is UTC+10

   So we can conclude that you posted your message at 16:27:40 local time, then.

Probably - that was several days ago, I don't keep a close track on what I was doing at what time any more.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Chinchilla, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

Hello Bj�rn,

We have a man here in the USA, a former president, who is about
to be put on trial

His only defence seems to be that the trial is unconstitutional because he is no longer president. What kind of crazy talk is that?

Crazy talk? You want to know what crazy talk is? You have been
accused of having written many anti-American things, of which I
will not repeat. You have written, in your own words, quite a
lot of things about Trump that may or may not be true. And to be
quite honest, more than a few people in this echo do honestly
believe you hate Americans by the nature of your comments.

So. I have decided to take a stand. For the first time, I am
going to reveal to you what real journalists and reporters are
saying about Donald J. Trump during his current impeachment
trial held by the Senate -

"Trump has the Republican Party on a personalized power like
we haven't seen. It's a caudillo, it's a Caesar, it's a F�hrer.
We don't see that in this country. We do now."
~ ABC News senior national correspondent Terry Moran, comparing
the power of Trump over the GOP to that of somebody like Hitler,
reporting live on television as the trial was being held

This is an American reporter. Not anybody from Sweden.
Just imagine the uproar had you written those words.

FoxNews has gone wild about this. Keeps repeating his words.
Over and over and over again. Showing his face, voicing those
words. On their own network. Talk about free advertising for
ABC News.

When lawyers have a fool for a client, they do the best they can.

After all, he committed the crime when in office.

Doesn't matter. He is no longer office. Hence the case is moot.

The House voted to impeach him while he was still in office.

Please keep in mind the lawyers have a fool for a client.
By his lights, he could have avoided getting impeached by
resigning from office in disgrace. Just like Nixon. And
then gotten his sidekick (Mike Pence) to grant him a pardon.
Not that he needed a pardon. But since he won the election -
by a landslide - there was never any reason for him to resign.

Imagine a chief accountant that is caught embezzling and is charged with the
crime, and then he is fired. On his trial he claims the the trial is unconstitutional because he no longer works for the company in question.

Only one problem with that scenario. After telling the rioters
to "fight like hell" and that he would be there with them when they
broke into the Capitol building, he chose to stay behind.

So who led the insurrection? Certainly not the fool who told them
to do it. Nobody caught him on camera wearing a Vikings helmet (with
horns), waving a Confederate flag, or throwing a fire extinguisher
at a cop's head ...

What kind of crazy talk is that?

The US Constitution says the Senate has "sole power" to try cases
of impeachment. Which is why the first thing the Senate did when the
trial got started was to have to vote to decide if the trial itself
was constitutional. The vote easily passed by a clear majority.

He'd probably do better by claiming insanity.

Insanity is a legal defense, but only a qualified psychiatrist could
have him sent to the loony-bin (St. Elizabeth's Mental Hospital is the
place where John Hinckley enjoyed his semi-retirement). Some folks
love it there, and never want to leave.

That'll probably work for Trump as well, there are many witnesses that can confirm that he was -- and still is -- insane.

But did he know right from wrong at the time the crime was committed?
That is the question. If he was, and it can be proven, then the Senate
would have grounds to find him "not guilty by reason of insanity".

However, this is a political trial. Not a criminal trial. And even
though there are some doctors in the Senate, none that I know of are
shrinks.

OTOH, Trump can do everybody a favor by admitting himself ...

--Lee

--
If PBS won't do it, who will?

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

true noon in Stockholm is at 11:54

I guess nobody will notice, but I made yet another number typo. True noon in Stockholm is at 11:44.
..

I sure noticed. :)


Jeff

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
* Origin: Fidonet: The Ouija Board - Anoka, MN - bbs.ouijabrd.net (1:282/1031)