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FidoNews 36:19 [00/07]: The Front Page

From FidoNews Robot@2:2/2 to All on Mon May 13 03:25:27 2019

The F I D O N E W S Volume 36, Number 19 13 May 2019 +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| |The newsletter of the | | |
| | FidoNet community. | | Netmail attach to (POTS): |
| | | | Editor @ 2:2/2 (+46-31-960447) |
| | ____________| | |
| | / __ | Netmail attach to (BinkP): |
| | / / \ | Editor @ 2:203/0 |
| | WOOF! ( /|oo \ | |
| \_______\(_| /_) | Email attach to: |
| _ @/_ \ _ | b @ felten dot se |
| | | \ \\ | |
| | (*) | \ ))| |
| |__U__| / \// | Editor: Bj�rn Felten |
| ______ _//|| _\ / | |
| / Fido \ (_/(_|(____/ | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| (________) (jm) | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+

Table of Contents
1. GENERAL ARTICLES ......................................... 1
The numbers .............................................. 1
A new RC45 ............................................... 2
2. LIST OF FIDONET IPV6 NODES ............................... 3
List of IPv6 nodes ....................................... 3
3. JAMNNTPD SERVERS LIST .................................... 6
The Johan Billing JamNNTPd project ....................... 6
4. FIDONEWS'S FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING ...................... 7
5. SPECIAL INTEREST ......................................... 14
Statistics from the Fidoweb .............................. 14
Nodelist Stats ........................................... 15
6. FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 17
How to Submit an Article ................................. 17
Credits, Legal Infomation, Availability .................. 19

--- Azure/NewsPrep 3.0
* Origin: Home of the Fidonews (2:2/2.0)

From FidoNews Robot@2:2/2 to All on Mon May 13 03:25:27 2019

=================================================================
GENERAL ARTICLES =================================================================

The numbers
Ward Dossche - 2:292/854

Maybe time for some realism. The nodelist may be what it is but
numbers don�t lie.

There were days when Fidonet eclipsed around 36.000 nodes in the
mid-1990-ies but that is like 25 years ago.

These are today�s numbers, 915 individual sysop-names. There may
be some variation depending on how one looks at the nodelist but
all administrative overhead, Down, Hold and vanity-numbers were
removed and then that is the meager result.

ZONE-1 302 33,01%
ZONE-2 571 62,40%
ZONE-3 24 2,26%
ZONE-4 18 1,97%

-----------------------------------------------------------------
A new RC45
By Ward Dossche @ 2:292/854

An election was held in R45 (Belarus) to find a new RC.

The election was run by Avshalom Donskoi of 2:400/2992, the
RC40 (Israel).

The new RC45 is Alexey Korotkov of 2:455/19.

Congratulations Alexey, you have a job to do as some will be
quick to point out to you.

And thank you Avshalom for running this.

\%/@rd Dossche
ZC2

-----------------------------------------------------------------

--- Azure/NewsPrep 3.0
* Origin: Home of the Fidonews (2:2/2.0)

From FidoNews Robot@2:2/2 to All on Mon May 13 03:25:27 2019

=================================================================
LIST OF FIDONET IPV6 NODES =================================================================

List of IPv6 nodes
By Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555

Updated 29 Apr 2019

Node Nr. Sysop Type Provider Remark

1 2:280/464 Wilfred van Velzen Native Xs4All f
2 2:280/5003 Kees van Eeten Native Xs4All f
3 2:5019/40 Konstantin Kuzov T-6in4 he.net f PO4
4 2:280/5555 Michiel van der Vlist Native Ziggo f
5 1:320/219 Andrew Leary Native Comcast f
6 2:221/1 Tommi Koivula T-6in4 he.net f
7 2:221/6 Tommi Koivula T-6in4 he.net f
8 2:5053/54 Denis Mikhlevich Native TTK-Volga
9 2:5030/257 Vova Uralsky Native PCextreme
10 1:154/10 Nicholas Bo�l Native Spectrum f
11 2:203/0 Bj�rn Felten T-6in4 he.net
12 2:280/5006 Kees van Eeten Native Xs4All f INO4
13 3:712/848 Scott Little T-6RD iiNet f IO
14 2:5020/545 Alexey Vissarionov Native Hetzner f
15 1:103/17 Stephen Hurd T-6in4 he.net
16 2:5020/9696 Alexander Skovpen T-6to4 Westlan
17 2:301/812 Benoit Panizzon Native IMPNET
18 2:421/790 Viktor Cizek T-6in4 he.net
19 2:222/2 Kim Heino Native TeliaSonera
20 3:633/280 Stephen Walsh Native AusNetServers f
21 2:463/877 Alex Shuman Native Nline f IO
22 1:19/10 Matt Bedynek T-6in4 he.net
23 3:770/1 Paul Hayton T-6in4 he.net
24 2:5053/58 Alexander Kruglikov Native Aruba S.p.a f
25 1:103/1 Stephen Hurd Native Choopa
26 3:633/281 Stephen Walsh Native Internode
27 2:310/31 Richard Menedetter Native DE-NETCUP f
28 3:633/410 Tony Langdon Native IINET
29 2:5005/33 Evgeny Zyatkov Native RUCITYCONNECT f 6DWN
30 2:5020/329 Oleg Lukashin Native Comfortel f
31 2:246/1305 Emil Schuster Native TAL.DE
32 2:2448/4000 Tobias Burchhardt Native DTAG IO
33 2:331/51 Marco d'Itri Native BOFH-IT
34 1:214/22 Ray Quinn T-6to4 AT&T f 6DWN
35 1:154/30 Mike Miller Native LINODE
36 1:282/1031 Jeff Smith Native Qwest
37 2:5083/444 Peter Khanin Native OVH 6DWN
38 2:5001/100 Dmitry Protasoff Native Hetzner 6DWN
39 2:5059/38 Andrey Mundirov T-6in4 he.net
40 2:240/5853 Philipp Giebel Native Hetzner
41 2:2452/413 Ingo Juergensmann Native RRBONE-COLO f
42 1:123/10 Wayne Smith T-6in4 he.net
43 2:5021/46 Dmitry Komissarov Native THEFIRST
44 2:4500/1 Eugene Kozhuhovsky Native DATAHATA6 6DWN
45 2:5080/102 Stas Degteff T-6to4 Novator 6DWN
46 1:135/300 Eric Renfro Native Choopa
47 1:135/371 Eric Renfro Native Cox Comm Down
48 1:103/13 Stephen Hurd Native Choopa
49 2:5020/1042 Michael Dukelsky Native FORPSI Ktis f
50 2:5095/0 Sergey V. Efimoff T-6in4 he.net
51 2:5095/20 Sergey V. Efimoff T-6in4 he.net
52 4:902/26 Fernando Toledo T-6in4 he.net 6DWN
53 2:400/2992 Avshalom Donskoi Native OVH f PM*1
54 2:5019/400 Konstantin Kuzov Native LT-LT
55 2:467/239 Mihail Kapitanov T-6in4 he.net f
56 2:463/1331 Andrei Dzedolik Native DIGITALOCEAN
57 2:5010/275 Evgeny Chevtaev T-6in4 TUNNELBROKER-0 f
58 2:5020/736 Egor Glukhov Native VPSVILLE f
59 2:280/2000 Michael Trip Native Xs4All
60 2:230/38 Benny Pedersen Native Linode
61 2:460/58 Stas Mishchenkov T-6in4 he.net f
62 1 135/367 Antonio Rivera Native RRSW-V6
63 2:5020/2123 Anton Samsonov T-6in4 he.net
64 2:5020/2332 Andrey Ignatov Native ru.rtk
65 1:340/201 Michael Pierce Native ComCast 6DWN
66 2:5005/49 Victor Sudakov T-6in4 he.net
67 2:5005/77 Valery Lutoshkin T-6in4 NTS f
68 2:5005/106 Alexey Osiyuk T-6in4 he.net f
69 1:153/757 Alan Ianson Native TELUS
70 2:5057/53 Ivan Kovalenko T-6in4 he.net f
71 2:5020/921 Andrew Savin Native Starlink
72 2:5010/352 Dmitriy Smirnov Native EkranTV f
73 2:292/854 Ward Dossche Native Belgacom OO
74 2:469/122 Sergey Zabolotny Native ARUBA-NET f
75 2:5053/400 Denis Mikhlevich Native TTK-Volga
76 1:14/5 Jeff Smith Native Qwest

T-6in4 Static 6in4
T-AYIY Dynamic AYIYA
T-6to4 6to4
T-6RD 6RD

Remarks:

f Has a ::f1d0:<zone>:<net>:<node> style host address
IO Incoming only (Node can not make outgoing IPv6 calls)
OO Outgoing only (Node can not accept incoming IPv6 calls)
INO4 No IPv4 (Node can not accept incoming IPv4 calls)
PO4 Prefers Out on 4 (Node can make outgoing IPv6 calls,
but is configured to try IPv4 first)
6DWN The IPv6 connectivity of this node is temporarely down.
DOWN This node is temporarely down for both IPv4 and IPv6
PM Prospective Member. The node has demonstrated IPv6
capability but is not listed or does not advertise an
IPv6 address in the Fidonet nodelist yet.
*1 IPv6 address: 2001:41d0:303:69c6:f1d0:2:400:2992

Notes:

To make an IPv6 connection to a node connected via 6to4 tunneling
one may have to force the mailer into IPv6 (-6 option in binkd's
node config for binkd up to 1.1a-96, -64 option for binkd 1.1a-97
and up). If the destination address is a 6to4 tunnel address
(2002::/16) many OSs default to IPv4 if an IPv4 address is present.

Submitted on day 132

-----------------------------------------------------------------

--- Azure/NewsPrep 3.0
* Origin: Home of the Fidonews (2:2/2.0)

From FidoNews Robot@2:2/2 to All on Mon May 13 03:25:27 2019

=================================================================
FIDONEWS'S FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING =================================================================

=================================================================
FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING
=================================================================

BBS Software List

Updated 2019-05-09

Maintained by Andrew Leary (1:320/219)
Editors Emeritus: Robert Couture, Janis Kracht,
Sean Dennis

M=Mailer T=Tosser B=BBS D=Door C=Comm/Terminal
P=Points E=Editor I=Internet U=Utility #=Info
F=TIC/SRIF Processor

*=Software is available and may be registerable,
but no longer supported or updated.

@=Website is operating but is no longer updated.

?=Software's updating/support status is unknown.

O=Software is open source.

This list contains BBS-related software that is available
for registration (not necessarily supported), open source
software and actively developed/supported software by its
author. Software listed may be available for DOS, Linux,
OS/2 (eComStation), Windows (16 or 32 bit) and OSX.

.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -.
|Software: Author |Type |URL, Contact, Ver, Notes Help Node|
`- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -'

==> FRONT-END/INTERNET MAILERS

Argus |MI*? |http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products
| | /argus/
| | v3.210 on 2001-03-29

BinkleyTerm XE |MO* |http://btxe.sourceforge.net
| | 2.60XE Beta-XH7 on 2000-10-22

BinkD |MI? |http://binkd.grumbler.org
| | gul@gul.kiev.ua 2:463/68
| | v.1.0.4
| | v.1.1a-99 (alpha)
| | ftp://cvs.happy.kiev.ua/pub/fidosoft
| | /mailer/binkd/
| |http://www.filegate.net/r50/aftnbinkd/

D'Bridge |MTCPE|http://www.dbridgemailer.com
|I | support@dbridgemailer.com 1:1/130
Nick Andre | | v3.99 SR 42 on 2019-04-20

FIDO-Deluxe IP |MPUI |http://www.datenbahn.dd-dns.de/
| | cdp/fp_deluxe/
| | v2.4 on 2003-09-26

FrontDoor, FD/APX: |MITPC|http://www.defsol.se 2:20/4609
Definite Solutions |E | sales@defsol.se
| | FD v2.33ml, FD/APX v1.15

InterMail |MCPE |http://www.Intermail.net 1:220/60
Dale Barnes | | dalebarnes42@majik.net
| | IM v2.60 on 2017-08-28

Husky Project |MTPUI|http://husky.sourceforge.net/
|EO? | v1.9 RC2 on 2010-04-20

Taurus |MI |http://www.fidotel.com/public/forums/
(based on Radius) |? | taurus/index.htm
| | v5.0 on 2006-06-12
| |

T-Mail |MI |http://www.tmail.spb.ru (Russian only)
|? | v2608 on 2001-12-12

AfterShock |MTEI |https://play.google.com/store/apps/
Asvcorp | | details?id=com.asvcorp.aftershock
Anatoly Vdovichev | | rudi.timmer@mail.ch 2:292/140
Rudi Timmermans | | v1.6.7 on 2017-11-19

HotDogEd |E |https://play.google.com/store/apps/
Sergey Pushkin | | details?id=com.pushkin.hotdoged
| | v2.13.5 on 2017-03-13 2:5020/2141

HotDogEd FidoNet |MTI |https://play.google.com/store/apps/
Provider | | details?id=com.pushkin.hotdoged.fido
Sergey Pushkin | | v2.13.5 on 2017-03-13 2:5020/2141

+- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

MAIL TOSSERS

BBS SOFTWARE

TIC PROCESSORS/FILEFIX/SRIF

BBS DOORS/UTILITIES

POINT SOFTWARE

SYSOP MAIL EDITORS

INTERNET UTILITIES

INFORMATIONAL WEBSITES/BBS LISTS

From FidoNews Robot@2:2/2 to All on Mon May 13 03:25:27 2019

=================================================================
SPECIAL INTEREST =================================================================

Last week's statistics from the Fidoweb
By EchoTime, 2:203/0

(Some nets may have lost their last
digit for technical reasons)

pkt (toss-toss) msg (write-toss)
nodes mean dev no mean dev no

154/* 5.1m 4.6m 247 1.0h 2.7h 246
201/* 1.1m 0.5m 6 16.0h 8.2h 6
221/* 0.7m 0.3m 280 5.6h 9.2h 280
240/* 0.2m 0.2m 5 35.6h 47.6h 5
280/* 1.0m 4.9m 431 6.5h 8.5h 431
292/* 3.7m 1.7m 15 0.2h 0.5h 14
320/* 2.0m 1.0m 294 2.2h 6.5h 293
502/* 0.8m 0.2m 5 5.7h 7.2h 5

Sigma 2.0m 3.9m 1283 4.3h 8.4h 1280

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Nodelist Stats

Input nodelist nodelist.130
size 182.7kb
date 2019-05-10

The nodelist has 976 nodes in it
and a total of 1445 non-comment entries

including 4 zones
31 regions
170 hosts
73 hubs
admin overhead 278 ( 28.48 %)

and 109 private nodes
32 nodes down
50 nodes on hold
off line overhead 191 ( 19.57 %)

Speed summary:

>9600 = 58 ( 5.94 %)
9600 = 212 ( 21.72 %)
(HST = 8 or 3.77 %)
(CSP = 0 or 0.00 %)
(PEP = 0 or 0.00 %)
(MAX = 0 or 0.00 %)
(HAY = 0 or 0.00 %)
(V32 = 83 or 39.15 %)
(V32B = 27 or 12.74 %)
(V34 = 107 or 50.47 %)
(V42 = 83 or 39.15 %)
(V42B = 29 or 13.68 %)
2400 = 1 ( 0.10 %)
1200 = 0 ( 0.00 %)
300 = 705 ( 72.23 %)

ISDN = 25 ( 2.56 %)

-----------------------------------------------------
IP Flags Protocol Number of systems -----------------------------------------------------
IBN Binkp 743 ( 76.13 %) ----------------------------------
IFC Raw ifcico 84 ( 8.61 %) ----------------------------------
IFT FTP 63 ( 6.45 %) ----------------------------------
ITN Telnet 154 ( 15.78 %) ----------------------------------
IVM Vmodem 10 ( 1.02 %) ----------------------------------
IP Other 5 ( 0.51 %) ----------------------------------
INO4 IPv6 only 1 ( 0.10 %) ----------------------------------

CrashMail capable = 826 ( 84.63 %)
MailOnly nodes = 308 ( 31.56 %)
Listed-only nodes = 25 ( 2.56 %)

[Report produced by NETSTATS - A PD pgm]
[ Revised by B Felten, 2:203/2]
[ NetStats 3.8 2014-11-23]

-----------------------------------------------------------------

--- Azure/NewsPrep 3.0
* Origin: Home of the Fidonews (2:2/2.0)

From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to FidoNews Robot on Sun May 12 21:55:00 2019

The numbers
Ward Dossche - 2:292/854

Maybe time for some realism. The nodelist may be what it is but
numbers don't lie.

There were days when Fidonet eclipsed around 36.000 nodes in the
mid-1990-ies but that is like 25 years ago.

These are today's numbers, 915 individual sysop-names. There may
be some variation depending on how one looks at the nodelist but
all administrative overhead, Down, Hold and vanity-numbers were
removed and then that is the meager result.

ZONE-1 302 33,01%
ZONE-2 571 62,40%
ZONE-3 24 2,26%
ZONE-4 18 1,97%

Thanks for those numbers, Ward. Very interesting how much things
have changed.

Not sure what the comment on "realism" means... I think we all
know that Fidonet is not what it was 25 years ago.

At least it's still around, right?

... Clones are people two.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Mon May 13 08:01:50 2019

Dan,

Thanks for those numbers, Ward. Very interesting how much things
have changed.

Thank you sir.

The interesting thing is ... there is growth. Mot much but I have noticed it in the entries running BBS\Fidonet-systems.

My intention is to run this again in a few months and see where we get. There still is dead wood ...

Not sure what the comment on "realism" means... I think we all
know that Fidonet is not what it was 25 years ago.

"realism" .... good point ... I would say, but I'm going to use the wrong words, the relative unimportance of what we're doing, the relative unimportance of the Elflords (including myself) and let's not be too serious about ourselves.

On the other hand, I still learn every week by following some of the technical platforms hence Fidonet has been a tremendous learning experience that could not have been offered by the internet.

There was a lot of good in Fidonet ... still is.

At least it's still around, right?

Absolutely ... I love some of the stuff that is being handed around here ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Mon May 13 08:10:00 2019

Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Thanks for those numbers, Ward. Very interesting how much things
have changed.

Thank you sir.

The interesting thing is ... there is growth. Mot much but I have
noticed it in the entries running BBS\Fidonet-systems.

Excellent news.

My intention is to run this again in a few months and see where
we get. There still is dead wood ...

Great idea, and please post your results. No doubt about the dead
wood, there is quite a bit of it. I'm assuming that is the job of
the RCs to trim that, but if they don't do it, can a ZC step in
and clean it up?

Not sure what the comment on "realism" means... I think we all
know that Fidonet is not what it was 25 years ago.

"realism" .... good point ... I would say, but I'm going to use
the wrong words, the relative unimportance of what we're doing,
the relative unimportance of the Elflords (including myself) and
let's not be too serious about ourselves.

Ahhh, OK. I get what you meant there, and agree completely.

On the other hand, I still learn every week by following some of
the technical platforms hence Fidonet has been a tremendous
learning experience that could not have been offered by the
internet.

Agreed again!

There was a lot of good in Fidonet ... still is.

At least it's still around, right?

Absolutely ... I love some of the stuff that is being handed
around here ...

Me too. Thanks for the civilized reply.

... So... So you think you can tell.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Mon May 13 23:46:56 2019

Me too. Thanks for the civilized reply.

Ehr ... am I not always civilized? 8-)

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

From Fabio Bizzi@2:335/364.1 to Ward Dossche on Tue May 14 07:36:28 2019

Hello Ward!

13 May 19 23:46, you wrote to Dan Clough:

Me too. Thanks for the civilized reply.

Ehr ... am I not always civilized? 8-)

You're a BARBARIAN! :P :P :P

This is a real snapshot of Ward:

https://media.titanbooks.com/catalog/products/4202/hagar1974.jpg

:P :P :P :P

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Fabio Bizzi on Tue May 14 08:12:10 2019

Fabio,

Me too. Thanks for the civilized reply.

Ehr ... am I not always civilized? 8-)

You're a BARBARIAN! :P :P :P

C'mon, I've only used butter "once" during the preparation of Linguine with smoked salmonm diced Christmas tomatoes, brocoli and sundried tomatoes...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Fabio Bizzi on Tue May 14 16:27:10 2019

On 14/05/2019 15:36, Fabio Bizzi -> Ward Dossche wrote:

This is a real snapshot of Ward:

https://media.titanbooks.com/catalog/products/4202/hagar1974.jpg

I thought Ward's beard was white, and I don't think those from Belgium are known for the horned hats. The beer tankard strikes some truth though.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to David Drummond on Tue May 14 09:23:22 2019

I thought Ward's beard was white, and I don't think those from Belgium
are known for the horned hats. The beer tankard strikes some truth
though.

Please be gentle on Fabio. I think he has true Roman blood in his veins and hasn't come to terms yet with the fact that the Barbarians overran the West-Roman empire in 406 after the latter substituted butter for Olive oil ... extra virgin Roman olive oil.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tue May 14 10:14:13 2019

with smoked salmonm

Speaking of salmon, you often comment on the disgusting habit the northernmost Swedes have with fermenting their herring. The procedure actually is quite similar to the making of Asian fish sauce, BTW, but that's another story...

But have you tried one of our real fish delicatessens -- that even sells at enormous prices on The Posh Street of many cities around the world. I'm of course talking about Swedish Gravlax.

Recipes posted and reposted here in FidoNews.

http://eljaco.se/FILES/FNEWS/FNEWSY10.ZIP

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

From Fabio Bizzi@2:335/364.1 to Ward Dossche on Tue May 14 10:21:38 2019

Hello Ward!

14 May 19 09:23, you wrote to David Drummond:

Please be gentle on Fabio. I think he has true Roman blood in his
veins and hasn't come to terms yet with the fact that the Barbarians overran the West-Roman empire in 406 after the latter substituted
butter for Olive oil ... extra virgin Roman olive oil.

ROTFL!!! :D :D :D

Are you still angry because you was conquer by Caesar? :P :P :P

BTW: The "Roman" Olive Oil was nevere existed. The Capital of the Empire was (still now) served from the Sabine area. ;)

As I wrote before, you're a Barbarian, gentle and polite but always a barabarian! :P :P :P :P

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

From Fabio Bizzi@2:335/364.1 to David Drummond on Tue May 14 10:32:28 2019

Hello David!

14 May 19 16:27, you wrote to me:

I thought Ward's beard was white, and I don't think those from Belgium
are known for the horned hats. The beer tankard strikes some truth
though.

Details, the matter is that he use BUTTER in place of the Italian Extra Virgin Olive Oil!

What else can be him? A true Barbarian! :P

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to David Drummond on Tue May 14 11:56:48 2019

Hello David!

14 May 19 16:27, David Drummond wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

https://media.titanbooks.com/catalog/products/4202/hagar1974.jpg

I thought Ward's beard was white, and I don't think those from
Belgium are known for the horned hats.

Actually, not even Vikings had these, it's more like a modern myth (maybe introduced by Wagner's Ring opera stage design).

Regards,
Gerrit

... 11:56AM up 27 days, 20:17, 8 users, load averages: 0.35, 0.39, 0.38

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: Shock to the System (2:240/12)

From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Tue May 14 12:47:09 2019

Speaking of salmon, you often comment on the disgusting habit the northernmost Swedes have with fermenting their herring. The procedure actually is quite similar to the making of Asian fish sauce, BTW, but that's another story...

I am now outing myself .. I buy the fermented stuff whenever I can. Really good.

http://eljaco.se/FILES/FNEWS/FNEWSY10.ZIP

Read it ... started drooling instantly.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Fabio Bizzi on Tue May 14 13:02:20 2019

Fabio,

Are you still angry because you was conquer by Caesar? :P :P :P

There are only 2 things Ceasar is famous for. One is a salad named after him, and that we owe even to Las Vegas and a hotel owned by the Maffia.

The otherone is some play by an English playwright which you, defeated Romans, even cheatingly attribute to a mythological Italian named Michelangelo Crollalanza.

Shame on you. You should read Ceasar's works, especially "De Bello Callico" ... my wars in Gaul (also depicted in the comic strip "Asterix") where he sheds some light upon the truth ... he wrote:

"Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae."

Of all these, the Belgians are the bravest/strongest.

Caesar suffered his greatest military defeat at the hands of the Belgians, the humiliation reaching Rome, and infuriating the man who then set out on one of Rome's biggest campaigns to crush the Republic's most feared rebels once and for all.

This proves Ceasar, after all, was a bad loser.

But, he also liked good food. Little known by the masses but he was famous for a cooking blog which he kept during his days

"Coquendo cum Caesar, L retentare legiones iubebatur sanus mixturis"

"Cooking with the emperor, 50 recipes to keep the legions healthy"

In the opening sentences, he writes:

"Est arcanum quod non est verum archimagirus oleum et oliva usum realis
butyrum"

"The secret of a real kitchen chef is not to use olive oil but real butter"

The final battle against the Belgians was postponed because the legions refused to eat, not enough garlic. So they had to throw everything away and start again ... it took about a day. The Belgians already were not too fond of that Roman garlic breath but basically got bored and just went home.

And you guys call this "victory" ?

As I wrote before, you're a Barbarian, gentle and polite but always a barabarian! :P :P :P :P

Take Dries Mertens, another Belgian, away from Napoli and Italian football collapses. The Barbarians are saving you ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Gerrit Kuehn on Tue May 14 13:04:30 2019

I thought Ward's beard was white, and I don't think those from
Belgium are known for the horned hats.

Actually, not even Vikings had these, it's more like a modern myth (maybe introduced by Wagner's Ring opera stage design).

Excavations from early Viking settlements confirm that too.

Someone told me the horned hat was a Hollywood invention.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tue May 14 14:19:56 2019

Someone told me the horned hat was a Hollywood invention.

Most likely. Who else would be so ignorant about life on a sailing ship? With all those ropes going all around the place, wearing a horned hat can not be recommended.

..

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Ward Dossche on Tue May 14 13:23:14 2019

Hello Ward!

14 May 19 13:04, Ward Dossche wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Actually, not even Vikings had these, it's more like a modern myth
(maybe introduced by Wagner's Ring opera stage design).

Excavations from early Viking settlements confirm that too.

Well, it's kind of a negative confirmation in that case: no such helment has even been found.

Someone told me the horned hat was a Hollywood invention.

Wagner's "Ring" premiered in 1876 and featured nordic warriors wearing such helmets, certainly predating any Hollywood activities. As the operas became quite popular, it is probably safe to assume that it spread from there.

Regards,
Gerrit

... 1:23PM up 27 days, 21:44, 8 users, load averages: 0.62, 0.52, 0.44

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* Origin: And still they come and go (2:240/12)

From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Gerrit Kuehn on Tue May 14 15:48:37 2019

Wagner's "Ring" premiered in 1876 and featured nordic warriors wearing such helmets

Was there any Viking ships portrayed in that opera? Or was it only blond, clean-shaved, blue-eyed, land-based Arian type of warriors?

I.e. as far from a Viking type that you can get?

Yes, we up here in the Nordic countries are well aware of the romantic picture of the Arian warrior that was popular in the mid 1800s -- it was even up here, not only in the former Prussia.

..

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From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tue May 14 17:46:42 2019

Hello Bj�rn!

14 May 19 15:48, Bj�rn Felten wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Wagner's "Ring" premiered in 1876 and featured nordic warriors
wearing such helmets

Was there any Viking ships portrayed in that opera? Or was it only blond, clean-shaved, blue-eyed, land-based Arian type of warriors?

We are talking about a 4-opera set with an overall playtime of about 16h: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Ring_des_Nibelungen

I don't remember any particular ships (this is not the Flying Dutchman ;-), but my memory is vague anyway, and I never saw one of the operas. Also, photographs from that time appear hard to be had. However, I found a few sketches that were apparently used to design the costumes:

https://altevolkstrachten.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/ring_des_nibelungen_ko stuem_design_knechte.jpg https://altevolkstrachten.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/ring_des_nibelungen_ko stuem_design_ritter.jpg https://altevolkstrachten.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/ring_des_nibelungen_ko stuem_design_ritter_germane.jpg

I.e. as far from a Viking type that you can get?

Well, the Ring saga is based on various myths, mainly from the nordic Edda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edda) and the German Nibelungenlied (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibelungenlied). Don't know how much "Viking" that is for you.

Yes, we up here in the Nordic countries are well aware of the
romantic picture of the Arian warrior that was popular in the mid
1800s -- it was even up here, not only in the former Prussia.

I think the helmets with horns were invented for stage use.
A bit similar are helmets with wings (also intensively used with the Ring operas). There are no historic sources that show them on Germans, Vikings or Gallics, but lots of pictures starting in 19th century. German wikipedia has it that they were "stolen" for nordic gods by Swedish nationalists like the G�tiska F�rbundet to make them appear to be of at least equal value compared to the "classic" ones from the Mediterranian (Roman/Greek).

Here is a link to the German version of the article: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%BCgelhelm
The English one appears to be much less informative.

Regards,
Gerrit

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From Fabio Bizzi@2:335/364.3 to Ward Dossche on Tue May 14 21:37:07 2019

Hello, Ward Dossche.
On 14/05/19 13:02 you wrote:

Fabio,

Are you still angry because you was conquer by Caesar? :P :P :P

There are only 2 things Ceasar is famous for. One is a salad named
after him, and that we owe even to Las Vegas and a hotel owned by
the Maffia.

Oh dear, please dont't hide the relevant facts.
De Bello Gallico Liber I:

Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae, propterea quod a cultu atque humanitate provinciae longissime absunt, minimeque ad eos mercatores saepe commeant atque ea quae ad effeminandos animos pertinent

So Belgians are a lot away from a civilized Roman citizen. :P

You're definitely a barbarian! :P :P :P

The skill with which the veteran Roman legions executed their well practiced pilum barrage and gladius and scutum counter-attacks together with the prudent use of missile weapons was instrumental in defeating the skillful and daring Nervii and associated Belgae.

The Belgae suffered heavy losses and eventually surrendered when faced with the destruction of their towns. The Nervii were severely mauled and forced to flee; thereby all former client tribes surrendered to Caesar or likewise fled. Their absence gave Caesar control of most of what is now Belgium.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_Wars

The story tells another story... ;)

At last you were conquered, no way! :P

Civis Romanus Sum! ;)

(Please leave me this, If I think what we are now I'd start to cry) ;)

--
Ciao! :)
Fabio.
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: ]\/[imac boss android point (2:335/364.3)

From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Wed May 15 01:08:36 2019

Hello Bj�rn,

Wagner's "Ring" premiered in 1876 and featured nordic warriors wearing
such helmets

Was there any Viking ships portrayed in that opera? Or was it only blond, clean-shaved, blue-eyed, land-based Arian type of warriors?

Richard Wagner composed his opera series `The Ring of the Nibelung'
in 1876. This was not his first composition, and his inclusion of
the 18th century Zombie Cultural Symbol is found throughout most of
his works. That is not the same thing as Viking helmets with large
wings or horns.

I.e. as far from a Viking type that you can get?

As far as I know, Vikings were not that stupid. Helmets are
used to deflect the blows of swords and other pointed/edged objects.
Horns or knobs would stop the blows, thus making it possible for
the sword or other pointed/edged object to enter the skull.

Yes, we up here in the Nordic countries are well aware of the romantic picture of the Arian warrior that was popular in the mid 1800s -- it was even up here, not only in the former Prussia.

Mussolini wanted to present his people Roman deities of old.
Hitler wanted to present his people a Germanic version of the
same. That is why he [Hitler] used Wagner's opera, twisting
Wagner's meaning to his own vision of the reich.

--Lee

--
Sleep With Someone New

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gerrit Kuehn on Wed May 15 01:08:48 2019

Hello Gerrit,

Actually, not even Vikings had these, it's more like a modern myth
(maybe introduced by Wagner's Ring opera stage design).

Excavations from early Viking settlements confirm that too.

Well, it's kind of a negative confirmation in that case: no such helment

has

even been found.

Someone told me the horned hat was a Hollywood invention.

Wagner's "Ring" premiered in 1876 and featured nordic warriors wearing

such

helmets, certainly predating any Hollywood activities. As the operas

became

quite popular, it is probably safe to assume that it spread from there.

Fake news! Wagner did not include "wings on helmets" as any part
of his opera. And he did write four parts, not just one.

https://www.vikings.com/news/the-truth-behind-the-horned-helmet-17914366

"The costume designer Carol Emil Doepler designed winged helmets
for Wagner's opera series [1876], adding horns in an 1882 book on
Germanic gods and heroes."

From there, folks in Minnesota USA decided to call their
football team the Minnesota Vikings, sporting horns on helmets
as their logo.

Made it to the Super Bowl four times.
Lost in the Super Bowl four times.

A nightmare for Minnesotans and Scandinavians alike.

--Lee

--
Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Gerrit Kuehn on Wed May 15 15:44:45 2019

On 14/05/2019 19:56, Gerrit Kuehn -> David Drummond wrote:

https://media.titanbooks.com/catalog/products/4202/hagar1974.jpg

I thought Ward's beard was white, and I don't think those from
Belgium are known for the horned hats.

Actually, not even Vikings had these, it's more like a modern myth
(maybe introduced by Wagner's Ring opera stage design).

Yes - I think I knew that already....

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Lee Lofaso on Wed May 15 08:24:52 2019

Hello Lee!

15 May 19 01:08, Lee Lofaso wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Fake news! Wagner did not include "wings on helmets" as any part
of his opera.

Weren't we talking about horns? Well, anyway, of course there are wings, too:

http://www.wagneroperas.com/1876ringproductiontop1.jpg

Easy enough to see?

And he did write four parts, not just one.

Yeah, it's a cycle. I was talking about the "Ring" as this is the common German short name for the whole cycle (full name "Der Ring des Nibelungen"). Looking into the Wikipedia page I referenced, this is the common abbreviation in English, too). Maybe you can stop trying to create a sensation?

Regards,
Gerrit

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From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to David Drummond on Wed May 15 20:56:16 2019

Hello David,

https://media.titanbooks.com/catalog/products/4202/hagar1974.jpg

I thought Ward's beard was white, and I don't think those from

Belgium are known for the horned hats.

Actually, not even Vikings had these, it's more like a modern myth
(maybe introduced by Wagner's Ring opera stage design).

Yes - I think I knew that already....

Carl Emil Doepler designed winged helmets for Richard Wagner's opera.
In 1882 he added horns in a book on Germanic gods and heroes.

That is what confuses people. Wagner was the composer who wrote
the opera series. Doepler was a costume designer who created the
vision people saw. Hitler was a politician who gave the world
his own warped interpretation.

--Lee

--
Laying Pipe Since '88

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gerrit Kuehn on Wed May 15 20:56:41 2019

Hello Gerrit,

Fake news! Wagner did not include "wings on helmets" as any part
of his opera.

Weren't we talking about horns? Well, anyway, of course there are wings, too:

http://www.wagneroperas.com/1876ringproductiontop1.jpg

Easy enough to see?

The 18th century Zombie Cultural Symbol is an old trope of Wagner,
which he used for religious ceremonial or ritual purposes.

And he did write four parts, not just one.

Yeah, it's a cycle. I was talking about the "Ring" as this is the common German short name for the whole cycle (full name "Der Ring des Nibelungen").

Wagner was a composer, not a costume designer. It was Carl Emil
Doepler who designed winged helmets for Wagner's opera, and later
adding horns in an 1882 book on Germanic gods and heroes.

Looking into the Wikipedia page I referenced, this is the common abbreviation in English, too). Maybe you can stop trying to create a sensation?

Adolf Hitler created a sensation by using Wagner's work, not me.

--Lee

--
Change Is Cumming

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Lee Lofaso on Wed May 15 21:14:16 2019

Hello Lee!

15 May 19 20:56, Lee Lofaso wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

http://www.wagneroperas.com/1876ringproductiontop1.jpg

Easy enough to see?

The 18th century Zombie Cultural Symbol is an old trope of Wagner,
which he used for religious ceremonial or ritual purposes.

I'll take this as a "YES".

Wagner was a composer, not a costume designer. It was Carl Emil
Doepler who designed winged helmets for Wagner's opera,

I never said Wagner designed the costumes himself. Anyway, you'll certainly admit that he worked together closely with the designer and had a huge say on the outcome.
The winged helmets as well as the horned helmets were part of the premiere plays in 1876, see (including photo) here: https://thornews.com/2018/01/11/the-confusing-horned-helmets-depicted-in-the-o seberg-viking-age-tapestries/

Maybe you can stop trying to create a
sensation?

Adolf Hitler created a sensation by using Wagner's work, not me.

I'll take this as a "NO", and there'll be no further comment from me on this topic.

Regards,
Gerrit

... 9:14PM up 29 days, 5:35, 8 users, load averages: 0.76, 0.44, 0.36

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: Shock to the System (2:240/12)

From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gerrit Kuehn on Thu May 16 02:20:40 2019

Hello Gerrit,

http://www.wagneroperas.com/1876ringproductiontop1.jpg

Easy enough to see?

The 18th century Zombie Cultural Symbol is an old trope of Wagner,
which he used for religious ceremonial or ritual purposes.

I'll take this as a "YES".

Woltan's magic helmet - the Tarnhelm - had no wings or horns.

Wagner was a composer, not a costume designer. It was Carl Emil
Doepler who designed winged helmets for Wagner's opera,

I never said Wagner designed the costumes himself.

Horns and helmets are not authentic! Wagner never included any
such nonsense in any of his compositions!

Anyway, you'll certainly admit that he worked together closely with the designer and had a huge say on the outcome.

You know nothing about Wagner or his writings.

Wagner treated opera as drama. His compositions was theatre as
a form of social, political, and sexual debate - to the society in
which he lived. Doepler's visual interpretation was his own, not
necessarly anything that Wagner envisioned.

The winged helmets as well as the horned helmets were part of the

premiere

plays in 1876, see (including photo) here: https://thornews.com/2018/01/11/the-confusing-horned-helmets- depicted-in-the-oseberg-viking-age-tapestries/

Nowhere in Wagner's compositions are winged or horned helmets found.
Whatever visual interpretations of others are their own.

Maybe you can stop trying to create a
sensation?

Adolf Hitler created a sensation by using Wagner's work, not me.

I'll take this as a "NO", and there'll be no further comment from me on

this

topic.

Playing the same chord for the first 136 bars of the opera gets
you nowhere quick. Especially when the entire cycle is 18 hours
long.

--Lee

--
We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Lee Lofaso on Thu May 16 09:36:22 2019

Hello Lee!

16 May 19 02:20, Lee Lofaso wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Anyway, you'll certainly admit that he worked together closely with
the designer and had a huge say on the outcome.

You know nothing about Wagner or his writings.

But you certainly do?
I said I've never seen a full opera by him, but in Germany it's hard to pass school without spending several lessons over his works.

Wagner treated opera as drama. His compositions was theatre as
a form of social, political, and sexual debate - to the society in
which he lived. Doepler's visual interpretation was his own, not necessarly anything that Wagner envisioned.

The Ring's premiere in 1876 took place in Bayreuth, in Wagner's own festival hall (that he had built specifically for showing the premiere of the Ring and other operas by him), the staging/production was done by Wagner himself, and he personally hired Carl Emil Doepler for doing costumes and stage design. He always envisioned his "musical dramas" as unification of music, words and looks into a single artwork.
We know that Wagner didn't particulary like the "old-fashioned" look of the stage set to start with, but he certainly had all the keys in his hand to change this if he really wanted, and it's really strange to assume he didn't care at all.

Regards,
Gerrit

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