Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:55:04 -0400
From: DAVE GOURD
To: ALL
Subject: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174697704.40.0@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 8

Any chances of a simple cancel button/option for the html-new+message
template - something along side the post message button?

I know I can add one, but nice if it was a built-in default.

--
Dave
FoxRiver.Net
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:43:16 -0400
From: HECTOR SANTOS
To: DAVE GOURD
Subject: RE: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174718596.40.1174697704@winserver.com>
References: <1174697704.40.0@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 19

Unless critical, we are pretty much locked now.

What will the cancel button do? Close the window? The create page is not always in a stanadlone window.

--
HLS

On 2007-03-23 7:55 PM, DAVE GOURD wrote to ALL:

Any chances of a simple cancel button/option for the html-new+message template - something along side the post message button?

I know I can add one, but nice if it was a built-in default.

--
Dave
FoxRiver.Net

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:01:46 -0400
From: DAVE GOURD
To: HECTOR SANTOS
Subject: RE: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174780906.40.1174718596@winserver.com>
References: <1174718596.40.1174697704@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 50

Unless critical, we are pretty much locked now.

That's a given at this point, and understood. Just throwing out ideas.

What will the cancel button do? Close the window? The create page is not always in a stanadlone window.

Granted - could be frames/no frames.

I create new mail with the frames set, but I figure can have similar adaptations.

I knew right away what one of my members was talking about when she asked
if msgs are sent or not if she decided NOT to send a msg she had composed
and did not click on post message. She said it was "a little confusing
about how not to send a message".

I told her as long as she did not click the post button that it would not
be sent.

So, maybe a cancel w/window or text block that would maybe state - msg cancelled, and or the current click here to continue reading...

wcnav has the red hand button, and "do you want to send before this message before quitting" - y/n/c? confirmation dialog, may along that line.

--
D


On 2007-03-24 1:43 AM, HECTOR SANTOS wrote to DAVE GOURD:

Unless critical, we are pretty much locked now.

What will the cancel button do? Close the window? The create page is not always in a stanadlone window.

--
HLS

On 2007-03-23 7:55 PM, DAVE GOURD wrote to ALL:

Any chances of a simple cancel button/option for the html-new+message template - something along side the post message button?

I know I can add one, but nice if it was a built-in default.

--
Dave
FoxRiver.Net

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:50:10 -0400
From: HECTOR SANTOS
To: DAVE GOURD
Subject: RE: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174783810.40.1174780906@winserver.com>
References: <1174780906.40.1174718596@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 38

On 2007-03-24 7:01 PM, DAVE GOURD wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

I knew right away what one of my members was talking about when she asked
if msgs are sent or not if she decided NOT to send a msg she had composed
and did not click on post message. She said it was "a little confusing
about how not to send a message".

I told her as long as she did not click the post button that it would not
be sent.

So, maybe a cancel w/window or text block that would maybe state - msg cancelled, and or the current click here to continue reading...

wcnav has the red hand button, and "do you want to send
before this message before quitting" - y/n/c? confirmation dialog,
may along that line.

--

Yes, I understand the valid point. But I do have a deja vu of the
opposite request and discussion a while back. I think it was either a beta version or at some point where we had it say [ SEND ] instead of [ POST ].

The problem with [ SEND ] is that it might make matters worst if the
message was not "trully" sent yet. This was the reason why we went as far
to add two attributes to your posted message. If its an EMAIL, then you
MAY catch it when redisplaying the message and see a "EXPORTED" attribute,
and then a few seconds latter, a "SENT" attribute.

But thats for EMAIL where the EXPORTED and SENT attributes apply.

What if it isn't an EMAIL but a local message? Does [ SEND ] make sense
for local communications?

So its all debatible of whats good or better for users. 1st comment about
it in the manner years, so I think its pretty good.


--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:12:56 -0400
From: DAVE GOURD
To: HECTOR SANTOS
Subject: RE: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174803176.40.1174783810@winserver.com>
References: <1174783810.40.1174780906@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 82

One of us misundersttod I think, probably me ...
It wasn't a matter of the difference between post and send - sending the message after composing it is straight forward - there's a button to 'post message', could be send, get it out of here, deliver msg, etc. - the terminology moving the msg wasn't the point.

Let me try this -
I compose a msg - (partially or completely), but BEFORE I click on 'post', I decide I don't want to send it (or post, have it delivered - the terms could be

more or less interchangeable as far as most users are concerned).

I personally know what to do - click back, home, logoff, anything but the button ("Post Message" is what I see as I write this) that will send the msg on its way, I know enough to not sit here and look for what to do NOT send
the message. But some novice users or otherwise unknowledgeable (?dense?) persons might sit there for hours thinking if they leave this page without erasing the message, cancelling, or somehow resetting the created msg that
it might get sent.

Maybe if there were a cancel or reset button (or some option along side or built into a confirm prompt) that could be chosen as an alternative.

A lot more comfort in cancel or reset - there ain't no such animal as 'unsend'.

No biggie, just a suggestion.

Got another thing for you however - will post it private.

--
Dave

(see attached example)




On 2007-03-24 7:50 PM, HECTOR SANTOS wrote to DAVE GOURD:

On 2007-03-24 7:01 PM, DAVE GOURD wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

I knew right away what one of my members was talking about when she

asked

if msgs are sent or not if she decided NOT to send a msg she had

composed

and did not click on post message. She said it was "a little confusing about how not to send a message".

I told her as long as she did not click the post button that it would not be sent.

So, maybe a cancel w/window or text block that would maybe state -

msg

cancelled, and or the current click here to continue reading...

wcnav has the red hand button, and "do you want to send
before this message before quitting" - y/n/c? confirmation dialog,
may along that line.

--

Yes, I understand the valid point. But I do have a deja vu of the
opposite request and discussion a while back. I think it was either a beta version or at some point where we had it say [ SEND ] instead of [ POST ].

The problem with [ SEND ] is that it might make matters worst if the
message was not "trully" sent yet. This was the reason why we went as

far

to add two attributes to your posted message. If its an EMAIL, then you MAY catch it when redisplaying the message and see a "EXPORTED"

attribute,

and then a few seconds latter, a "SENT" attribute.

But thats for EMAIL where the EXPORTED and SENT attributes apply.

What if it isn't an EMAIL but a local message? Does [ SEND ] make sense for local communications?

So its all debatible of whats good or better for users. 1st comment about it in the manner years, so I think its pretty good.

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 06:25:24 -0400
From: HECTOR SANTOS
To: DAVE GOURD
Subject: RE: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174821924.40.1174803176@winserver.com>
References: <1174803176.40.1174783810@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 103

Thanks for the picture.

Yes, I understand. The question is what are you cancelling too.

If the WINDOW is by itself, then a CANCEL would display a "Exit without Saving?" prompt and then close the window. This would be a CUI (Common
User Interface) that we traditionally know for dialogs.

But what do you do under a FRAME environmental? What does the CANCEL do? Clear the frame window?

--
HLS

On 2007-03-25 1:12 AM, DAVE GOURD wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

One of us misundersttod I think, probably me ...
It wasn't a matter of the difference between post and send - sending the message after composing it is straight forward - there's a button to 'post message', could be send, get it out of here, deliver msg, etc. - the terminology moving the msg wasn't the point.

Let me try this -
I compose a msg - (partially or completely), but BEFORE I click on 'post', I decide I don't want to send it (or post, have it delivered - the terms

could be

more or less interchangeable as far as most users are concerned).

I personally know what to do - click back, home, logoff, anything but the button ("Post Message" is what I see as I write this) that will send the msg on its way, I know enough to not sit here and look for what to do NOT send the message. But some novice users or otherwise unknowledgeable (?dense?) persons might sit there for hours thinking if they leave this page without erasing the message, cancelling, or somehow resetting the created msg that it might get sent.

Maybe if there were a cancel or reset button (or some option along side or built into a confirm prompt) that could be chosen as an alternative.

A lot more comfort in cancel or reset - there ain't no such animal as

'unsend'.

No biggie, just a suggestion.

Got another thing for you however - will post it private.

--
Dave

(see attached example)

On 2007-03-24 7:50 PM, HECTOR SANTOS wrote to DAVE GOURD:

On 2007-03-24 7:01 PM, DAVE GOURD wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

I knew right away what one of my members was talking about when she

asked

if msgs are sent or not if she decided NOT to send a msg she had

composed

and did not click on post message. She said it was "a little confusing about how not to send a message".

I told her as long as she did not click the post button that it

would not

be sent.

So, maybe a cancel w/window or text block that would maybe state -

msg

cancelled, and or the current click here to continue reading...

wcnav has the red hand button, and "do you want to send
before this message before quitting" - y/n/c? confirmation dialog,
may along that line.

--

Yes, I understand the valid point. But I do have a deja vu of the opposite request and discussion a while back. I think it was either a

beta

version or at some point where we had it say [ SEND ] instead of [ POST

].

The problem with [ SEND ] is that it might make matters worst if the message was not "trully" sent yet. This was the reason why we went as

far

to add two attributes to your posted message. If its an EMAIL, then you MAY catch it when redisplaying the message and see a "EXPORTED"

attribute,

and then a few seconds latter, a "SENT" attribute.

But thats for EMAIL where the EXPORTED and SENT attributes apply.

What if it isn't an EMAIL but a local message? Does [ SEND ] make sense for local communications?

So its all debatible of whats good or better for users. 1st comment

about

it in the manner years, so I think its pretty good.

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:45:11 -0400
From: DAVE GOURD
To: HECTOR SANTOS
Subject: RE: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174844711.40.1174821924@winserver.com>
References: <1174821924.40.1174803176@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 134

Just something to at least clear the text box for peace of mind...

Maybe my terminolgy is lacking - let's think reset fields? Don't need 2 extra buttons, one or the other as applicable.

Another example attached...

--
D

On 2007-03-25 6:25 AM, HECTOR SANTOS wrote to DAVE GOURD:

Thanks for the picture.

Yes, I understand. The question is what are you cancelling too.

If the WINDOW is by itself, then a CANCEL would display a "Exit without Saving?" prompt and then close the window. This would be a CUI (Common
User Interface) that we traditionally know for dialogs.

But what do you do under a FRAME environmental? What does the

CANCEL do?

Clear the frame window?

--
HLS

On 2007-03-25 1:12 AM, DAVE GOURD wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

One of us misundersttod I think, probably me ...
It wasn't a matter of the difference between post and send - sending

the

message after composing it is straight forward - there's a button

to 'post

message', could be send, get it out of here, deliver msg, etc. - the terminology moving the msg wasn't the point.

Let me try this -
I compose a msg - (partially or completely), but BEFORE I click on

'post',

I

decide I don't want to send it (or post, have it delivered - the terms

could be

more or less interchangeable as far as most users are concerned).

I personally know what to do - click back, home, logoff, anything but

the

button ("Post Message" is what I see as I write this) that will send the

msg

on its way, I know enough to not sit here and look for what to do NOT

send

the message. But some novice users or otherwise unknowledgeable (?

dense?)

persons might sit there for hours thinking if they leave this page

without

erasing the message, cancelling, or somehow resetting the created msg

that

it might get sent.

Maybe if there were a cancel or reset button (or some option along side

or

built into a confirm prompt) that could be chosen as an alternative.

A lot more comfort in cancel or reset - there ain't no such animal as

'unsend'.

No biggie, just a suggestion.

Got another thing for you however - will post it private.

--
Dave

(see attached example)

On 2007-03-24 7:50 PM, HECTOR SANTOS wrote to DAVE GOURD:

On 2007-03-24 7:01 PM, DAVE GOURD wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

I knew right away what one of my members was talking about

when she

asked

if msgs are sent or not if she decided NOT to send a msg she had

composed

and did not click on post message. She said it was "a little

confusing

about how not to send a message".

I told her as long as she did not click the post button that it

would not

be sent.

So, maybe a cancel w/window or text block that would maybe

state -

msg

cancelled, and or the current click here to continue reading...

wcnav has the red hand button, and "do you want to send
before this message before quitting" - y/n/c? confirmation dialog, may along that line.

--

Yes, I understand the valid point. But I do have a deja vu of the opposite request and discussion a while back. I think it was either a

beta

version or at some point where we had it say [ SEND ] instead of [

POST ].

The problem with [ SEND ] is that it might make matters worst if the message was not "trully" sent yet. This was the reason why we

went as

far

to add two attributes to your posted message. If its an EMAIL,

then you

MAY catch it when redisplaying the message and see a "EXPORTED"

attribute,

and then a few seconds latter, a "SENT" attribute.

But thats for EMAIL where the EXPORTED and SENT attributes apply.

What if it isn't an EMAIL but a local message? Does [ SEND ] make

sense

for local communications?

So its all debatible of whats good or better for users. 1st comment

about

it in the manner years, so I think its pretty good.

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:18:12 -0400
From: HECTOR SANTOS
To: DAVE GOURD
Subject: RE: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174861092.40.1174844711@winserver.com>
References: <1174844711.40.1174821924@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 43

On 2007-03-25 12:45 PM, DAVE GOURD wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

Just something to at least clear the text box for peace of mind...

Maybe my terminolgy is lacking - let's think reset fields? Don't need 2

extra

buttons, one or the other as applicable.

Another example attached...

--

Gotcha, I will put this done as something to consider.

Just a small point about how I sometimes view things - I am a firm believer
of Pareto's Principle (Google it if you not familar). Essentially,
sometimes we can't get too crazy about making things "perfect" to cover
every aspect possible, but a good majority of the time, it will only apply
for a small percentage of the time. Some might call that the "First Time Syndrome." Its a rethorical question? Is the feature needed after the
first time?

Specifically, I think you are right, that a RESET should only clear the
fields. But is that really the same thing of addressing the "issue" of "CANCELING" or closing the box or etc? Is that what was ultimatelly being addressed? To give the user the "confirmation" there is no mail to be
posted? That it was "Cleared" therefore, there is nothing to "post?

Again, I am not saying your wrong, but IMO, it is not a clear cut answer,
and adding the extra buttons may or may not be any better. Probably
wouldn't hurt, but it is worth the effort if we are only dealing with the "First Time Syndrome?" Again, these are rethoritcal questions. But I definitely see the CLOSE/CANCEL button when the box is in its OWN windows
as it is when you click the write direct email icon in the who's online.

--
HLS






--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:28:30 -0400
From: DAVE GOURD
To: HECTOR SANTOS
Subject: RE: create new message template
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1174926510.40.1174861092@winserver.com>
References: <1174861092.40.1174844711@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 123

Now we're making progress, I figured it was a matter of terminology. I have heard of Pareto's Principle, have to go study it a bit - sounds interesting and

applicable to many things.

Granted, it (adding the logic and troubleshooting) would entail extra effort that would only benefit a few people for a short time (in re the first timers/novices). For my use or that of experienced users it would be a waste of time. (however an 'unsend' feature would have been nice for me here a couple weeks ago ;) - this is not a request; there is no such animal)

That a reset or cancel needs to be an additional button may not really necessary, but perhaps would be most obvious or simple to logically put in place if it were instituted. I think it would not be well placed within the logic
of the confirmation block presented AFTER clicking on 'post message' or send or whatever it may be. If I don't want to post or send it, why would I click on

post/send? - at that point my immediate assumption would be 'if I click post or send, then it's out of here'.

And if/when I do click post (or send), and the confirmation gives me a choice of post or cancel, so what?

If I click post, it [apparently] sends the msg on its way and gives me an opportunity to go back reading messages.

But what happens if I click cancel - does it NOT send the msg and return to the same [now unsent] form? Does it clear the form and leave me hanging
there wondering what to do next? (I know what it does actually - just theoretical from a 3rd party view)

I don't mean to suggest that ANY box or window need to be 'closed' per se
by cancelling or resetting (forgive me for using the 2 interchangeably), just that one could have an option PRIOR to post message if one's mind has
changed about sending an email they had started to compose. I really hadn't considered the 'close' option specifically; it doesn't have to 'close', just present an alternative to post only.

For clarification with regard to the topic of not sending a msg, in my eyes I would suppose the following:

** Cancel - abort the operation; I do not want send whatever I may have entered/typed if anything, I want to do something else (or start over). IOW - I changed my mind about sending it, I want peace of mind knowing the msg
would not be sent if I click on something else beside 'post message'.

Cancel is better suited as it is - in the post confirmation.

** Reset - clear the form; I want to start the process over again, whatever I may have entered/typed in the form is now tossed into a bit bucket, nullified, cancelled, abort, etc.

Reset would be be utilized PRIOR to post - I can choose to send or clear the form, the addition of a cancel prior to post would be beneficial aborting the whose process.

hmmm -

create msg - current form
V
|> post > send > go back to reading
V V
V cancel > don't send, goto back to current form
V
|> reset > clear form > goto create msg
V
|> cancel > don't send, clear form


It was just a thought, I appreciate your consideration of the matter but don't make it a priority, you have bigger and better fish to fry even this takes up your time.

--
Dave Gourd
FoxRiver.Net


On 2007-03-25 5:18 PM, HECTOR SANTOS wrote to DAVE GOURD:

On 2007-03-25 12:45 PM, DAVE GOURD wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

Just something to at least clear the text box for peace of mind...

Maybe my terminolgy is lacking - let's think reset fields? Don't need 2

extra

buttons, one or the other as applicable.

Another example attached...

--

Gotcha, I will put this done as something to consider.

Just a small point about how I sometimes view things - I am a firm believer of Pareto's Principle (Google it if you not familar). Essentially, sometimes we can't get too crazy about making things "perfect" to cover every aspect possible, but a good majority of the time, it will only apply for a small percentage of the time. Some might call that the "First Time Syndrome." Its a rethorical question? Is the feature needed after the first time?

Specifically, I think you are right, that a RESET should only clear the fields. But is that really the same thing of addressing the "issue" of "CANCELING" or closing the box or etc? Is that what was ultimatelly being addressed? To give the user the "confirmation" there is no mail to be posted? That it was "Cleared" therefore, there is nothing to "post?

Again, I am not saying your wrong, but IMO, it is not a clear cut answer, and adding the extra buttons may or may not be any better. Probably wouldn't hurt, but it is worth the effort if we are only dealing with the "First Time Syndrome?" Again, these are rethoritcal questions. But I definitely see the CLOSE/CANCEL button when the box is in its OWN

windows

as it is when you click the write direct email icon in the who's online.

--
HLS

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)