• made vs manufactured

    From August Abolins@2:460/256 to All on Sat Sep 11 22:30:34 2021
    Hi All,
    ...Greets from my Telegram app!


    I just noticed this little confusing labelling on a product that I brought in for my shop. So... it's manufactured in USA, but made in China? How can that be?
    https://brorabbit.g0x.ru/pic/613d03d8.jpg


    Ciao!
    /|ug (https://t.me/aabolins)

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  • From Jay Harris@1:229/664 to August Abolins on Sat Sep 11 16:56:21 2021
    On 11 Sep 2021, August Abolins said the following...

    I just noticed this little confusing labelling on a product that I
    brought in for my shop. So... it's manufactured in USA, but made in China? How can that be?

    It'd make more sense to use Apple's verbage

    "Designed by Apple in California. Made in China."


    Jay

    ... The word 'meaningful' when used today is nearly always meaningless.
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  • From Aaron Grasswell@1:229/428 to Jay Harris on Sat Sep 11 17:46:37 2021
    Several products I've seen receltly are now saying Made in PRC (People's Republic of China) instead of 'China'; and Made with Love in China.

    A couple listed the provence within China, not China itself.

    Seems to be country of origin labeling trick marketing students are being taught. lol
    DW
    Dark Systems BBS


     > On 11 Sep 2021, August Abolins said the following...
    I just noticed this little confusing labelling on a product that I brought in for my shop. So... it's manufactured in USA, but made in China? How can that be?

    It'd make more sense to use Apple's verbage

    "Designed by Apple in California. Made in China."


    Jay

    ... The word 'meaningful' when used today is nearly always meaningless.

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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Jay Harris on Sat Sep 11 19:48:00 2021
    Hello Jay!

    ** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 16:56, you wrote to me:

    I just noticed this little confusing labelling on a
    product that I brought in for my shop. So... it's
    manufactured in USA, but made in China? How can that be?

    It'd make more sense to use Apple's verbage

    "Designed by Apple in California. Made in China."

    Digging around the www I read the classification for "made in
    XX" should only apply to goods that undergo final assembly "in
    XX" However, it sounds like "manufactured by" can apply to
    goods that are assembled under 100% complete. So, maybe the
    last (and perhaps only) step this particular item gets is the
    attachment of the UPC label in USA, and .: "manufactured by
    MerryMakers ..Oakland CA" makes is American?

    Sheesh.

    Anyway.. I am astonished at how many items are manufactured and
    assembled China. Even a vast majority of books seem to be
    printed and manufactured in China.

    --
    ../|ug
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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Aaron Grasswell on Sat Sep 11 19:50:00 2021
    Hello Aaron Grasswell!

    ** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 17:46, Aaron Grasswell wrote to Jay Harris:

    Several products I've seen receltly are now saying Made in
    PRC (People's Republic of China) instead of 'China'; and
    Made with Love in China.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Are they kidding? What product has that?


    A couple listed the provence within China, not China
    itself.


    I haven't come across a province named one. On what particular
    type of product would that be?


    --
    ../|ug
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  • From Jay Harris@1:229/664 to August Abolins on Sat Sep 11 21:50:03 2021
    On 11 Sep 2021, August Abolins said the following...

    Digging around the www I read the classification for "made in
    XX" should only apply to goods that undergo final assembly "in
    XX" However, it sounds like "manufactured by" can apply to
    goods that are assembled under 100% complete. So, maybe the
    last (and perhaps only) step this particular item gets is the
    attachment of the UPC label in USA, and .: "manufactured by
    MerryMakers ..Oakland CA" makes is American?

    Even the loaf of bread on my counter states:

    "Made in Canada from domestic and imported ingredients."


    Jay

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  • From Richard Miles@1:3634/24 to August Abolins on Sat Sep 11 21:11:55 2021
    On 11 Sep 2021, August Abolins said the following...

    I just noticed this little confusing labelling on a product that I
    brought in for my shop. So... it's manufactured in USA, but made in

    My guess is that it's cheaper to ship parts and raw materials to China and have them assemble them and ship back.

    -=>Richard Miles<=-
    -=>Captain Obvious<=-
    -=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

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  • From Richard Miles@1:3634/24 to August Abolins on Sat Sep 11 21:13:07 2021
    On 11 Sep 2021, August Abolins said the following...

    assembled China. Even a vast majority of books seem to be
    printed and manufactured in China.

    My understanding is that it is MUCH cheaper to have books printed in China.

    -=>Richard Miles<=-
    -=>Captain Obvious<=-
    -=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

    ... If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
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  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to August Abolins on Sun Sep 12 12:39:24 2021
    Hi August!

    11 Sep 2021 22:30, from August Abolins -> All:

    So... it's manufactured in USA, but made in China? How can that be?

    Where does it say *manufactured* in USA?

    It says manufactured BY an USA company - made in China.
    Which means it was produced in China.

    CU, Ricsi

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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Richard Miles on Sun Sep 12 00:06:00 2021
    Hello Richard!

    ** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 21:13, you wrote to me:

    assembled China. Even a vast majority of books seem to be
    printed and manufactured in China.

    My understanding is that it is MUCH cheaper to have books
    printed in China.

    That is most certainly the case. But in light of China's lack
    of human rights, and slave-like labour in factories, WHY are
    companies continuing to do business with China.

    Much of the quality of books out of China looks pretty good.
    I'll give them that (unless the inks and dyes are poisonous).

    Meanwhile I'll posit that there is a lot of greed in the
    publishing industry too - so the bottom line is to maximize
    profits at any cost.
    --
    ../|ug
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  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Richard Miles on Sun Sep 12 13:36:19 2021
    Hi Richard,

    On 2021-09-11 21:11:55, you wrote to August Abolins:

    I just noticed this little confusing labelling on a product that I
    brought in for my shop. So... it's manufactured in USA, but made in

    My guess is that it's cheaper to ship parts and raw materials to China and have them assemble them and ship back.

    And that is changing, now that shipping costs have gone tenfold in some cases. Businesses are looking into getting their products manufactured closer to home...

    Bye, Wilfred.
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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sun Sep 12 08:55:00 2021
    Hello Wilfred!

    ** On Sunday 12.09.21 - 13:36, you wrote to Richard Miles:

    My guess is that it's cheaper to ship parts and raw
    materials to China and have them assemble them and ship
    back.

    And that is changing, now that shipping costs have gone
    tenfold in some cases. Businesses are looking into
    getting their products manufactured closer to home...

    There *does* seem to be a modest shift to "manufactured" and
    "printed" domestically wrt books.

    I should tally that info and see how the trend is progressing.

    Sometimes I shudder and quake in my shoes when I see souvenir
    products like postcards, fridge magnets, keychains, etc,
    labelled with my Canadian town, but the small print is "Made in
    China". The China labelling just seems wrong, especially for
    products that you expect to retain as souvenirs of a Canadian
    visit.
    --
    ../|ug
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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Jay Harris on Sun Sep 12 09:00:00 2021
    Hello Jay Harris!

    Even the loaf of bread on my counter states:

    "Made in Canada from domestic and imported ingredients."

    What brand is that? I recently bought some non-GMO biscuits/
    crackers, and they are labelled, "Imported by.." only.

    It is a sad commentary when we can't even seem to get non-GMO
    domestically (Canada).

    --
    ../|ug
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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Richard Menedetter on Sun Sep 12 09:06:00 2021
    Hello Richard Menedetter!

    So... it's manufactured in USA, but made in China? How
    can that be?

    Where does it say *manufactured* in USA?

    It says manufactured BY an USA company - made in China.
    Which means it was produced in China.

    Exactly. The industry is playing with words to confuse us and
    make us assume that domestic jobs (in this case, USA) are
    supported?

    One other thing that I just don't understand the grocers are
    doing is when they bring in apples from Chile, when there is
    plenty of fine domestic Canadian apple brands. I mean.. why
    bother? ..especially when the prices are the same.
    --
    ../|ug
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  • From Jay Harris@1:229/664 to August Abolins on Sun Sep 12 09:31:16 2021
    On 12 Sep 2021, August Abolins said the following...

    "Made in Canada from domestic and imported ingredients."

    What brand is that?

    It's just Dempster's plain white bread. I seem to remember similar wording on the english muffins I bought a short while ago as well.

    I'd imagine we're using Canadian wheat but perhaps things like yeast or salt would be imported.


    Jay

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  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to August Abolins on Sun Sep 12 21:44:18 2021
    Hi August!

    12 Sep 2021 09:06, from August Abolins -> Richard Menedetter:

    One other thing that I just don't understand the grocers are
    doing is when they bring in apples from Chile, when there is
    plenty of fine domestic Canadian apple brands. I mean.. why
    bother? ..especially when the prices are the same.

    I assume it is just plain economics.
    If it is cheaper to import an apple from Chile (including transport cost) than to get it locally, they will do it.

    Maybe CO2 prices to be paid will help here ...
    The issue is transport is ridiculously cheap.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... The way to have a better tomorrow is to begin working on it today.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Richard Menedetter on Sun Sep 12 17:32:00 2021
    Hello Richard!

    ** On Sunday 12.09.21 - 21:44, you wrote to me:

    One other thing that I just don't understand the grocers
    are doing is when they bring in apples from Chile, when
    there is plenty of fine domestic Canadian apple brands
    [...]

    I assume it is just plain economics. If it is cheaper to
    import an apple from Chile (including transport cost) than
    to get it locally, they will do it.

    But why even bother? All they're doing is spreading out the
    potential saleability of the domestic product to a competitive
    apple. Unless, the PROFIT from the Chilean apples is much more,
    perhaps.


    Maybe CO2 prices to be paid will help here ...

    You mean CO2 "carbon taxes"?


    The issue is transport is ridiculously cheap.

    Domestic apples make more sense; shorter transport times,
    faster to the market.

    At one point I was just looking at the cheapest apples and
    buying those. Then I realized WTF am I doing and not supporting
    my own country's apple farmers. Then, I wondered WHY would a
    Canadian grocer even import foreign apples when there are
    plenty of domestic farmers.
    --
    ../|ug
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  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to August Abolins on Mon Sep 13 08:28:26 2021
    Hi August!

    12 Sep 2021 17:32, from August Abolins -> Richard Menedetter:

    I assume it is just plain economics. If it is cheaper to
    import an apple from Chile (including transport cost) than
    to get it locally, they will do it.
    But why even bother?

    People are looking for cheap apples.
    So you check where you can source them the cheapest in a quality that you can sell.
    Then you take the option that gives you the most competitive advantage.
    If people do not like quality or check the country of origin then you habe an incentive to check those.
    If you sell enough then the cheaper price trumps it.

    All they're doing is spreading out the potential saleability of the domestic product to a competitive apple. Unless, the PROFIT from the Chilean apples is much more, perhaps.

    Naturally if you source cheaper then you can either sell cheaper and beat the competition, or make a bigger profit.

    Maybe CO2 prices to be paid will help here ...
    You mean CO2 "carbon taxes"?

    Yes.
    If they are carried over 1000s of kms then you generate much more CO2 then if you take an apple from your neighbor.

    The issue is transport is ridiculously cheap.
    Domestic apples make more sense; shorter transport times,
    faster to the market.

    Why?
    Shorter transport would only be relevant if it is cheaper. (which in bulk it is often NOT).
    There is not really faster time to market.
    If you have a steady stream of deliveries then it is NOT faster.
    Important is that you are able to deliver in time. If you can do that with your supplier then it is not really important where it is.

    The only issue would be if people note the deteriorated quality due to longer transport.
    It seems most people do not notice or care.

    At one point I was just looking at the cheapest apples and
    buying those. Then I realized WTF am I doing and not supporting
    my own country's apple farmers.

    It seems most Canadians do not think (yet) like you.
    It is supply and demand.
    If people ask for the cheapest apple possible, then you look where you can source that.
    If people are looking for domestic apples, you will look for a cheap Canadian source.

    Canadian grocer even import foreign apples when there are
    plenty of domestic farmers.

    Because they are cheaper, and most people do not seem to care.
    If people would stop buying foreign apples, then he would immediately stop importing them.
    As long as people buy them, he has a price advantage of buying them.

    CU, Ricsi

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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Sep 13 19:51:00 2021
    Hello Richard!

    ** On Monday 13.09.21 - 08:28, you wrote to me:

    People are looking for cheap apples. So you check where
    you can source them the cheapest in a quality that you can
    sell. Then you take the option that gives you the most
    competitive advantage. If people do not like quality or
    check the country of origin then you habe an incentive to
    check those. If you sell enough then the cheaper price
    trumps it.

    Initially, I was actually perferring the Chilean brand (I
    forget the name of the apple version) ..but that was before I
    was paying attention to its imported status. It was just one
    of the cheapest a few times. But we're only talking about
    50cents diff per lb.

    At one point I was just looking at the cheapest apples
    and buying those. Then I realized WTF am I doing and not
    supporting my own country's apple farmers.

    It seems most Canadians do not think (yet) like you. It is
    supply and demand. If people ask for the cheapest apple
    possible, then you look where you can source that. If
    people are looking for domestic apples, you will look for
    a cheap Canadian source.

    This was at a NoFrills chain store. I don't think there is a
    customer ask-wishlist. ;) Most of the fresh wholefoods are
    supplied at a warehouse depot and skids are auctioned off to
    ANY of the chains that show up with their trucks.

    Canadian grocer even import foreign apples when there are
    plenty of domestic farmers.

    Because they are cheaper, and most people do not seem to
    care. If people would stop buying foreign apples, then he
    would immediately stop importing them. As long as people
    buy them, he has a price advantage of buying them.

    What I think is *really* happening is that maybe the choices at
    the distribution/warehouses can vary and they take what they
    can get. The importer makes the decisions, not the food chain?

    I worked for a flower shop for a couple of summers in my teens.
    In addition to working at the shop, my job was to drive to the
    depot and pick up the flowers that the owner bid on and won.
    The owner could only choose from the flower stock that the
    importer provided.
    --
    ../|ug

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  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Tue Sep 14 09:39:39 2021
    Hi August,

    On 2021-09-13 19:51:00, you wrote to Richard Menedetter:

    But we're only talking about 50cents diff per lb.

    Isn't Canada on the metric units system?

    Bye, Wilfred.

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  • From August Abolins@2:460/256 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Sep 14 12:40:35 2021
    Hi Wilfred,
    ...Greets from my Telegram app!

    Hi August,
    On 2021-09-13 19:51:00, you wrote to Richard Menedetter:
    Isn't Canada on the metric units system?
    Bye, Wilfred.

    It is for the most part. But NoFrills labels the wholefoods/fresh stuff in $/LB most of the time.

    Ciao!
    /|ug (https://t.me/aabolins)

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  • From Jay Harris@1:229/664 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Sep 14 08:15:32 2021
    On 14 Sep 2021, Wilfred van Velzen said the following...

    Isn't Canada on the metric units system?

    Oh, that's a whole conversation unto itself. It depends on what you're measuring. We buy gas by the litre and drive in KM/h, but body weight is in pounds, our height is in feet & inches yet Toronto is about 100km from my location. Air temperature outside is in celsius but water/pool temperature is in fahrenheit. Most recipes are in cups, table/teaspons and our ovens are also in fahrenheit.

    Someone on Reddit made a flowchart that I think sums it up nicely:

    https://bit.ly/3CdJNh0


    Jay

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  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:460/256 to Jay Harris on Tue Sep 14 15:21:46 2021
    On 14 Sep 2021, Wilfred van Velzen said the following...

    Oh, that's a whole conversation unto itself. It depends on what you're measuring. We buy gas by the litre and drive in KM/h, but body weight is in pounds, our height is in feet & inches yet Toronto is about 100km from my location. Air temperature outside is in celsius but water/pool temperature is in fahrenheit. Most recipes are in cups, table/teaspons and our ovens are also in fahrenheit.
    Someone on Reddit made a flowchart that I think sums it up nicely: https://bit.ly/3CdJNh0
    Jay
    ... Committees: A group that takes minutes and wastes hours.

    You must be confused all the time... Can you teach that to your children? ?
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  • From August Abolins@2:460/256 to Jay Harris on Tue Sep 14 15:47:38 2021
    Hi Jay,
    ...Greets from my Telegram app!

    On 14 Sep 2021, Wilfred van Velzen said the following...

    Oh, that's a whole conversation unto itself. It depends on what you're measuring. We buy gas by the litre and drive in KM/h, but body weight is in pounds, our height is in feet & inches yet Toronto is about 100km from my location. Air temperature outside is in celsius but water/pool temperature is in fahrenheit. Most recipes are in cups, table/teaspons and our ovens are also in fahrenheit.
    Someone on Reddit made a flowchart that I think sums it up nicely: https://bit.ly/3CdJNh0
    Jay
    ... Committees: A group that takes minutes and wastes hours.

    That's pretty good! One is missing: AREA.

    Is it small - Maybe. 'cuz our standard sheet of paper is 8.5x11", biz cards are 3.5x2", but measuring the dimensions of a box might be in metric.

    Is it large - Maybe, 'cuz I've only heard land referred to in acres.

    Ciao!
    /|ug (https://t.me/aabolins)

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  • From Jay Harris@1:229/664 to August Abolins on Tue Sep 14 09:00:18 2021
    On 14 Sep 2021, August Abolins said the following...

    That's pretty good! One is missing: AREA.

    Is it large - Maybe, 'cuz I've only heard land referred to in acres.

    Unless it's a farm, then it may be listed in hectares (which is metric).

    But yes, you're right: "How big is your house?" "Oh, it's 2000 sq ft on a 1/4 acre of land."


    Jay

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  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.21 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Sep 14 09:05:00 2021
    Hello Wilfred!

    ** On Tuesday 14.09.21 - 15:21, you wrote to Jay:

    Oh, that's a whole conversation unto itself. It depends
    on what you're measuring. [...]

    You must be confused all the time... Can you teach that
    to your children?

    We seem to just "know" what to use depending on what we are
    measuring. It's like English, we know when to pronounce the
    hard C vs the soft C, etc.

    My first language was not English, but in the house I grew up
    with both. To me, it was like one language anyway. I would
    flip to one language or the other depending on who I was
    talking to, and I didn't notice any difficulty in doing that.

    I remember my 1st day in kindergarten at some of the confused
    looks of the other kids (and the teacher) when I talked to
    them. Apparently I was using a bit of both languages at the
    same time! I caught on fast though.

    --
    ../|ug
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