Hi All,
...Greets from my Telegram app!

This is the result of keeping 60% of the lights OFF and the furnance down at my shop for about 3 weeks. Mind you, about $60 of the bill is just the "delivery" fee (whether I use any power or not). Last month the grand total was double - and I powered the lights 80% of the time back then. Normally, the bill is closer to $250/mo when the furnace or the AC operates.
https://brorabbit.g0x.ru/pic/6038823a.jpg



CIAO!

... [##### ###] has been cracked! Kudos & Thank$ to JH. :-)
--- tg BBS v0.6.4
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Hi August,

On 2021-02-26 08:08:12, you wrote to All:

This is the result of keeping 60% of the lights OFF and the furnance
down at my shop for about 3 weeks. Mind you, about $60 of the bill is
just the "delivery" fee (whether I use any power or not). Last month
the grand total was double - and I powered the lights 80% of the time
back then. Normally, the bill is closer to $250/mo when the furnace or
the AC operates.

Since I have solar pannels on my roof my net usage (over a year) is almost zero. And my electric bill accordingly. But we also have the "delivery" fee, and taxes for the "connection" to the net.

Are circumstances (taxes, laws, enough sun light) favorable enough in Cananda, so it is viable to invest in solar pannels?

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred!

** On Friday 26.02.21 - 10:01, you wrote to me:

Since I have solar pannels on my roof my net usage (over a
year) is almost zero. And my electric bill accordingly.
But we also have the "delivery" fee, and taxes for the
"connection" to the net.

How do you power your refrigerator?

Although the Netherlands is further north on the latitude than
my location, your area probably enjoys more sunny days in
general. There are weeks here when we can get many overcast
days in a row, so a 100% reliance on solar is not possible.
People here have generators to fill in the gaps.

Are circumstances (taxes, laws, enough sun light)
favorable enough in Cananda, so it is viable to invest in
solar pannels?

There was a solar programme about 15 yrs ago that encouraged
people to invest in panel installations on their properties -
extending the financing over the years and get a modest
reduction in the existing electric power bills by feeding back
the supply to the grid. I don't hear much about how people have
been doing with that, but they scrapped the option to allow
people to install stand-alone independent panels (that could
also follow the movement of the sun) and feed back into the
grid.

Today, the minimum costs to get into solar to obtain near
independency from the power grid is pretty high, now.

The whole idea of a solar powered home intrigues me. I'd love to
have it!

How large is your battery arsenal? Do they reside near the roof
and close to the panel installation? I hear that proper venting
for the batteries is required.

Some fortunate people use geothermal solutions for their heating
and cooling options here. I have plenty of surrounding land and
a lake next door upon which I could capitalize for that if I
wanted. But there again, the entry cost is huge. I'd never get
back the investment of the project for the "savings" in heating
and cooling over the years. I'm too old now.
--
../|ug

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Hi August,

On 2021-02-26 10:06:00, you wrote to me:

Since I have solar pannels on my roof my net usage (over a
year) is almost zero. And my electric bill accordingly.
But we also have the "delivery" fee, and taxes for the
"connection" to the net.

How do you power your refrigerator?

By having it plugged into a wall outlet! ;-)

What do you mean? My house isn't disconnected from the net. During the day when my solarpannels generate more power than I can consume, the surplus is put into the net. During the night and other hours with less light, I get my power from the net. My energy meter registers both situations seperately. Currently the electricity prices for "taking" and "puting" are equal by law. But that will change in the comming years. Puting electricity into the net won't give you as much money back as taking it from the net will cost you.

Although the Netherlands is further north on the latitude than
my location, your area probably enjoys more sunny days in
general. There are weeks here when we can get many overcast
days in a row, so a 100% reliance on solar is not possible.
People here have generators to fill in the gaps.

Almost no one has a generator here.

Are circumstances (taxes, laws, enough sun light)
favorable enough in Cananda, so it is viable to invest in
solar pannels?

There was a solar programme about 15 yrs ago that encouraged
people to invest in panel installations on their properties -
extending the financing over the years and get a modest
reduction in the existing electric power bills by feeding back
the supply to the grid. I don't hear much about how people have
been doing with that, but they scrapped the option to allow
people to install stand-alone independent panels (that could
also follow the movement of the sun) and feed back into the
grid.

Today, the minimum costs to get into solar to obtain near
independency from the power grid is pretty high, now.

I expect to earn my initial investment into the solarpower installation back in 6 to 8 years, with current electricity prices. If the price of electricity goes up, it might be less time. The live expectency of the installation is at least 20 to 25 years. So after the initial years, it's al profit. ;)

The whole idea of a solar powered home intrigues me. I'd love to
have it!

How large is your battery arsenal? Do they reside near the roof
and close to the panel installation? I hear that proper venting
for the batteries is required.

Some fortunate people use geothermal solutions for their heating
and cooling options here. I have plenty of surrounding land and
a lake next door upon which I could capitalize for that if I
wanted. But there again, the entry cost is huge. I'd never get
back the investment of the project for the "savings" in heating
and cooling over the years. I'm too old now.

That is indeed a very expensive solution. Some of our greenhouse customers in the Netherlands have such an installation. I don't know prices, but that would probably run into the millions for such industrial scale installations. But they have done the math, and wouldn't have invested into this, if it wasn't viable...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

How do you power your refrigerator?

By having it plugged into a wall outlet! ;-)

Ahh.. a smart alec! :D

I thought that solar = +batteries. Apparently not.

Now that I recall, the early financing programmes for solar installations at people's homes (either via roof, or via standalone units) was a direct-to-grid type of thing - no batteries required.

What do you mean? My house isn't disconnected from the net.

Got it.

Currently the electricity prices for "taking" and "puting" are equal by law. But that will change in the comming years. Puting electricity into the net won't give you as much money back as taking it from the net will cost you.

That's the thing here too. The early promises of solar benefits are being eroded by the arbitrary increases in the "taking" cost and reducing the value of the "putting".

.. The live expectency of the
installation is at least 20 to 25 years. So after the initial years, it's al profit. ;)

That will be a time of celebration! Freedom from the yoke.

Some fortunate people use geothermal solutions for their heating
and cooling options here. I have plenty of surrounding land and
a lake next door..

That is indeed a very expensive solution. Some of our greenhouse customers in the Netherlands have such an installation. I don't know prices, but that would probably run into the millions for such industrial scale installations. But they have done the math, and wouldn't have invested into this, if it wasn't viable...

I think some people finance such things to the hilt to minimize monthy payments as much as possible - while reaping the benefits of such installations. Then when the asset sells, the value is built-in and they recoup everything.
--- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hi August,

On 2021-02-26 10:44:14, you wrote to me:

How do you power your refrigerator?

By having it plugged into a wall outlet! ;-)

Ahh.. a smart alec! :D

I thought that solar = +batteries. Apparently not.

Nope. Not yet atleast.

Now that I recall, the early financing programmes for solar
installations at people's homes (either via roof, or via standalone
units) was a direct-to-grid type of thing - no batteries required.

That's how it works here.

But when you don't get any money any more (or very little) for putting your generated electricity into the net, batteries will become interesting to store your own energy, and using it when there is no sun. And hopefully battery technology will become better and cheaper in the future.

That is indeed a very expensive solution. Some of our greenhouse
customers in the Netherlands have such an installation. I don't know
prices, but that would probably run into the millions for such
industrial scale installations. But they have done the math, and
wouldn't have invested into this, if it wasn't viable...

I think some people finance such things to the hilt to minimize monthy payments as much as possible - while reaping the benefits of such installations. Then when the asset sells, the value is built-in and they recoup everything.

Most greenhouse owners already generate their own electricity for the lighting in the greenhouses. And they also use the heat that comes from those big gas generators to warm up the greenhouses. It's a very efficient way to use energy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

But when you don't get any money any more (or very little) for putting your generated electricity into the net, batteries will become interesting to store your own energy, and using it when there is no sun. And hopefully battery technology will become better and cheaper in the future.

I hear that the batteries need to be replaced every few years. And they are not cheap.

And venting them (even when they are sealed) is critical in a household.

Most greenhouse owners already generate their own electricity for the lighting in the greenhouses. And they also use the heat.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration

Good forward thinking.

I was always impresed how much heat cattle manure generated in the barn.

So, a structure with cattle below and greenhouse above could be a nice symbiotic relationship.
--- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hi August,

On 2021-02-27 09:51:02, you wrote to me:

Most greenhouse owners already generate their own electricity for the
lighting in the greenhouses. And they also use the heat..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration

Good forward thinking.

I was always impresed how much heat cattle manure generated in the barn.

So, a structure with cattle below and greenhouse above could be a nice symbiotic relationship.

Never heard of such a thing. But it's rare when a cattle farms also grows crops in a greenhouse, so no-one thinks about combining the two...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred!

** On Saturday 27.02.21 - 19:58, you wrote to me:

So, a structure with cattle below and greenhouse above
could be a nice symbiotic relationship.

Never heard of such a thing. But it's rare when a cattle
farms also grows crops in a greenhouse, so no-one thinks
about combining the two...

I just thought since it's not uncommon for people to build
"green spaces" and gardens on rooftops, maybe the two can be
combined so that the heat produced from the animal husbandry
from below can offer some warmth to the plants above.

--
../|ug

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Hi August,

On 2021-03-03 22:40:00, you wrote to me:

So, a structure with cattle below and greenhouse above
could be a nice symbiotic relationship.

Never heard of such a thing. But it's rare when a cattle
farms also grows crops in a greenhouse, so no-one thinks
about combining the two...

I just thought since it's not uncommon for people to build
"green spaces" and gardens on rooftops, maybe the two can be
combined so that the heat produced from the animal husbandry
from below can offer some warmth to the plants above.

Maybe, but I've never heard of it before, either as idea or as an implementation. So maybe it's impractical, or no one had thought of it before.

One thing though, the greenhouses over here are usually much larger than the stables that house a couple of hundred cows, for the average cow farm. So the energy in the form of warmth that can be harvested from a stable is probably way to little to heat an average greenhouse...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred!

** On Thursday 04.03.21 - 09:56, you wrote to me:

I just thought since it's not uncommon for people to build
"green spaces" and gardens on rooftops, maybe the two can
be combined so that the heat produced from the animal
husbandry from below can offer some warmth to the plants
above.

Maybe, but I've never heard of it before, either as idea
or as an implementation. So maybe it's impractical, or no
one had thought of it before.

I suppose it would be a rare circumstance to have an
animal+plants operation combined in one business/location.. so
maybe that's why no one is trying that.

One thing though, the greenhouses over here are usually
much larger than the stables that house a couple of
hundred cows, for the average cow farm. So the energy in
the form of warmth that can be harvested from a stable is
probably way to little to heat an average greenhouse...

Have you ever visited a stable in the winter that is full of
animals? Even when the waste is cleaned out fairly well, it can
be pretty warm inside.

Growing up on a couple of small farms, the worst of the waste
was removed (manually, primarily because the interiors were
never built large enought for driving machinery inside) during
the winter. But there was always a remnant that was just easier
to leave inside and just cover the damp areas with straw. Over
the course of the winter, there would be quite a bit of
decomposing straw to remove. Anyway.. the barns never really
needed any auxiliary heating. Every one was comfy cozy inside.

--
../|ug

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Hi August,

On 2021-03-21 21:16:00, you wrote to me:

Maybe, but I've never heard of it before, either as idea
or as an implementation. So maybe it's impractical, or no
one had thought of it before.

I suppose it would be a rare circumstance to have an
animal+plants operation combined in one business/location.. so
maybe that's why no one is trying that.

That's probably one of the reasons why...

One thing though, the greenhouses over here are usually
much larger than the stables that house a couple of
hundred cows, for the average cow farm. So the energy in
the form of warmth that can be harvested from a stable is
probably way to little to heat an average greenhouse...

Have you ever visited a stable in the winter that is full of
animals? Even when the waste is cleaned out fairly well, it can
be pretty warm inside.

Nevertheless the produced (excess if any) warmth wouldn't be enough to heat any decent sized greenhouse.


Bye, Wilfred.

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