Jack gets a bad rapp for his "Jack attacks", and I'm not sure how well Iwould
have survived if I ever had to work under him. But reading "The HomeComputer
Wars" the other day, it left me with a slightly different feeling - an admiration for the man's sheer determination to win in business, and hisbelief
in his own business "religion".to
I tried to distill out of the book the components of The Religion (according
the book, Jack called it this himself). It included a strong focus on lean business (sounds very modern), reducing the number of layers of command, expecting managers to "get involved" and not just manage. He was apparently oft-quoted as saying "business is like sex. You have to be involved".
Just wondering if there are any other closet Jack admirers, and whether they can shed any more light on Jack's business religion?
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 07:06:56 +1300, Simon Geddes wrote:
Jack gets a bad rapp for his "Jack attacks", and I'm not sure how well I would
have survived if I ever had to work under him. But reading "The Home Computer
Wars" the other day, it left me with a slightly different feeling - an
admiration for the man's sheer determination to win in business, and his belief
in his own business "religion".
I tried to distill out of the book the components of The Religion (according to
the book, Jack called it this himself). It included a strong focus on lean >> business (sounds very modern), reducing the number of layers of command,
expecting managers to "get involved" and not just manage. He was apparently >> oft-quoted as saying "business is like sex. You have to be involved".
Just wondering if there are any other closet Jack admirers, and whether they
can shed any more light on Jack's business religion?
Well you have to admire him. Like you have to admire Bill Gates. Even if
you otherwise hate them for being pricks.
Jack gets a bad rapp for his "Jack attacks", and I'm not sure how well Iwould
have survived if I ever had to work under him. <snip>
On 1/18/20 1:06 PM, Simon Geddes wrote:
Jack gets a bad rapp for his "Jack attacks", and I'm not sure how well I would
have survived if I ever had to work under him. <snip>
Hello, and hmmmm...Seems I remember a C-64 game called "Jack
Attack". Just a coincidence I suppose. Sincerely,
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 07:06:56 +1300, Simon Geddes wrote:
Jack gets a bad rapp for his "Jack attacks", and I'm not sure how well I would
have survived if I ever had to work under him. But reading "The Home Computer
Wars" the other day, it left me with a slightly different feeling - an
admiration for the man's sheer determination to win in business, and his belief
in his own business "religion".
I tried to distill out of the book the components of The Religion (according to
the book, Jack called it this himself). It included a strong focus on lean >>> business (sounds very modern), reducing the number of layers of command, >>> expecting managers to "get involved" and not just manage. He was apparently
oft-quoted as saying "business is like sex. You have to be involved".
Just wondering if there are any other closet Jack admirers, and whether they
can shed any more light on Jack's business religion?
Well you have to admire him. Like you have to admire Bill Gates. Even if
you otherwise hate them for being pricks.
From a customer's point of view I think you can admire Tramiel much
more than Bill Gates. Tramiel used his ruthless business strategies
to cut costs and therefore be able to profitably sell computers
cheaper than anyone else - opening them up to some home markets that otherwise might have been priced out. Gates just did his best to
prevent other players from getting a strong foothold in the PC OS
market, so that he could get away with selling his software with
very high profit margins. Steve Jobs as well just convinced a
smaller market with more money to buy more expensive tech by making
it shiny and fashionable.
I'm sure you'd soon conclude that they were all pricks if you were
trying to compete in the same market as they were/are. As I remember
it, one of Tramiel's other sayings was "business is war". In my
opinion Tramiel did more to further the reach of computing as a
whole.
From a customer's point of view I think you can admire Tramiel muchotherwise might have been priced out. Gates just did his best to
more than Bill Gates. Tramiel used his ruthless business strategies
to cut costs and therefore be able to profitably sell computers
cheaper than anyone else - opening them up to some home markets that
On 1/18/20 1:06 PM, Simon Geddes wrote:
Jack gets a bad rapp for his "Jack attacks", and I'm not sure how well I would
have survived if I ever had to work under him. <snip>
Hello, and hmmmm...Seems I remember a C-64 game called "Jack Attack".
Just a coincidence I suppose. Sincerely,
There is a very interesting article in a BYTE issue from 1983 where they predict how the market would develop in the next five years (1988). Most
of the predictions were wrong. They didn't see the success of
Commodore. They were right though that in the professional sector IBM
will win the race.
Re: Re: Jack Tramielplan
By: Computer Nerd Kev to Andreas Kohlbach on Tue Jan 21 2020 10:17 pm
From a customer's point of view I think you can admire Tramiel much
more than Bill Gates. Tramiel used his ruthless business strategies
to cut costs and therefore be able to profitably sell computers
cheaper than anyone else - opening them up to some home markets that otherwise might have been priced out. Gates just did his best to
That really came across in the book I was reading. Most of Commodore thought they should concetrate on high-end PET-level machines, but Jack drove the
and ambition to do the Vic as a low-cost computer for all. I'm not sure ,but I
feel this was partly motivated by a sense of public purpose.
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 07:06:56 +1300, Simon Geddes wrote:
Jack gets a bad rapp for his "Jack attacks", and I'm not sure how well I would
have survived if I ever had to work under him. But reading "The Home Computer
Wars" the other day, it left me with a slightly different feeling - an
admiration for the man's sheer determination to win in business, and his belief
in his own business "religion".
Just wondering if there are any other closet Jack admirers, and whether they
can shed any more light on Jack's business religion?
Well you have to admire him. Like you have to admire Bill Gates. Even if
you otherwise hate them for being pricks.
From a customer's point of view I think you can admire Tramiel much
more than Bill Gates. Tramiel used his ruthless business strategies
to cut costs and therefore be able to profitably sell computers
cheaper than anyone else - opening them up to some home markets that otherwise might have been priced out. Gates just did his best to
prevent other players from getting a strong foothold in the PC OS
market, so that he could get away with selling his software with
very high profit margins. Steve Jobs as well just convinced a
smaller market with more money to buy more expensive tech by making
it shiny and fashionable.
I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, but one thing that they did do is bring
a common platform to million's of computers at a relatively low cost
compared to CP/M.
Re: Re: Jack Tramielplan
By: Computer Nerd Kev to Andreas Kohlbach on Tue Jan 21 2020 10:17 pm
From a customer's point of view I think you can admire Tramiel much
more than Bill Gates. Tramiel used his ruthless business strategies
to cut costs and therefore be able to profitably sell computers
cheaper than anyone else - opening them up to some home markets that otherwise might have been priced out. Gates just did his best to
That really came across in the book I was reading. Most of Commodore thought they should concetrate on high-end PET-level machines, but Jack drove the
and ambition to do the Vic as a low-cost computer for all. I'm not sure ,but I
feel this was partly motivated by a sense of public purpose.
Tristan Miller wrote to Simon Geddes <=-
and ambition to do the Vic as a low-cost computer for all. I'm not sure,
but I feel this was partly motivated by a sense of public purpose.
I haven't read The Home Computer Wars, but that's not at all the impression I got of Tramiel from reading Brian Bagnall's "On the Edge:
The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore" (or whatever it happened to
be called at the time -- the author seems to change the title of the
book with every edition). Anyways, from that book it was pretty clear that Tramiel was driven purely by profit and egotism, not any higher social purpose. After reading the book (and watching the "Commodore Story" documentary) I came away with a much less favourable impression
of Tramiel than I had had previously.
Tristan Miller wrote to Simon Geddes <=-
and ambition to do the Vic as a low-cost computer for all. I'm not sure, but I feel this was partly motivated by a sense of public purpose.
I haven't read The Home Computer Wars, but that's not at all the impression I got of Tramiel from reading Brian Bagnall's "On the Edge: The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore" (or whatever it happened to be called at the time -- the author seems to change the title of the book with every edition). Anyways, from that book it was pretty clear that Tramiel was driven purely by profit and egotism, not any higher social purpose. After reading the book (and watching the "Commodore Story" documentary) I came away with a much less favourable impression of Tramiel than I had had previously.
Jack, who dumped CBM in favour of Atari (nee Tramiel Technology Ltd.)
was just as much about money as Irving (Gould) and Medhi (Ali) who came
after him at Commodore and busted it out for fun and (especially) profit.
... Amiga made it possible. Commodore made it dead.
Jack, who dumped CBM in favour of Atari (nee Tramiel Technology Ltd.)
was just as much about money as Irving (Gould) and Medhi (Ali) who came after him at Commodore and busted it out for fun and (especially) profit.
Re: Jack Tramiel
By: Dave Drum to Tristan Miller on Fri Jan 31 2020 12:24 pm
Jack, who dumped CBM in favour of Atari (nee Tramiel Technology Ltd.)
was just as much about money as Irving (Gould) and Medhi (Ali) who came
after him at Commodore and busted it out for fun and (especially) profit.
I don't think he was really dumped. Irving sacked him. Not sure how
that's
possible, and what the actual reasons were. Some say because he
wanted to bring
his sons in. Irving said he was worried about JAck's health, and
didn't think
he was the man to take the company to beyond a billion.
Maybe Jack planned to build Atari up to the point where he could buy
our
Commodore and get his creation back. Something akin to the Steve Jobs story,
where he was ousted but found a back route back in.
Andreas Kohlbach wrote to Dave Drum <=-
Jack, who dumped CBM in favour of Atari (nee Tramiel Technology Ltd.)
was just as much about money as Irving (Gould) and Medhi (Ali) who came after him at Commodore and busted it out for fun and (especially) profit.
... Amiga made it possible. Commodore made it dead.
Wasn't it Commodore offering a cash back of some sort in the early to
mid 1980s? You would send in your existing non-Commodore computer and
get a discount of some $199 of a price of $249. Some people bought a
brand new Timex Sinclair 1000 for $99, sent it to Commodore to receive
a Commodore 64. To make some $50. That was a very aggressive marketing strategy by Commodore. I only learned about this reading some 1980s
BYTE magazines as PDF which also contained to contemporary
advertisements. --
Andreas
Simon Geddes wrote to Dave Drum <=-
Jack, who dumped CBM in favour of Atari (nee Tramiel Technology Ltd.)
was just as much about money as Irving (Gould) and Medhi (Ali) who came after him at Commodore and busted it out for fun and (especially) profit.
I don't think he was really dumped. Irving sacked him. Not sure how
that's possible, and what the actual reasons were. Some say because he wanted to bring his sons in. Irving said he was worried about JAck's health, and didn't think he was the man to take the company to beyond a billion.
Maybe Jack planned to build Atari up to the point where he could buy
our Commodore and get his creation back. Something akin to the Steve
Jobs story, where he was ousted but found a back route back in.
was even a near equal to the Amiga. Shame that Gould and Ali smelled
more profit$ in bankrupting the company than it continuing - like Apple.
Such a shame. I still use an Amiga-offspring daily. The technology, the OS, is still so usable and allows me to be highly productive. It feels likesuch
Love the quote and I truly admire his dedication and mindset. I've learned through the years that this is the right mindset. If you want to be an entrepreneur you have to be disciplined, cold, and goal-oriented.
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