• Elections

    From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to ALL on Mon Jul 29 17:19:28 2019
    In theory, the election of public officials is the best way to govern.
    In practice, however, it isn't.

    The reason that elections are no longer the best method of selecting
    public officials is that elections can be (and usually are) rigged.
    The late Josef Stalin reportedly once commented: "It's not who votes
    that counts, it's who counts the votes." Over the past twenty years in
    the United State there have been myriad occurrences of election fraud;
    years ago one precinct reported over 300 votes cast on election day,
    but then the ballot box was opened later there were only fifty ballots
    in it. Unfortunately that was not an isolated occurrence, many
    precincts have reported more votes cast than people who actually voted.

    Another problem with elections in this country is voter suppression.
    Some suppression is done by local officials, but in my view a bigger
    problem is people who hang around polling places for the purpose of intimidating voters.

    Yet another problem with elections in this country is the fact that politicians literally buy peoples' votes by promising them all sorts
    of "free" government "benefits." Many people will reliably vote for
    things they think someone else will have to pay for - and for
    candidates who will promise them those things. Unfortunately
    those "free" government "benefits" have literally bankrupted this
    country's government; the government's funded and unfunded liabilities
    far exceed the value of its assets and any reasonable estimate of its
    future revenue - and that's a pretty good definition of bankruptcy. It
    should also be noted that the government is currently overspending its
    income by more than a trillion dollars a year.

    Some people, particularly but not exclusively those of the leftist
    persuasion, refuse to accept the results of elections and take to the
    streets in protests of election results they don't like - that sort of
    thing used to be called a riot but today it has become a legitimate
    form of political expression. That's one thing I've noted about the
    political left wing in this country - they're all for elections - until
    they lose one, the presidential election of 2016 being a case in point.

    If elections are no longer the best method of selecting public
    officials, how should we do it? My personal preference is to eliminate elections entirely and adopt a random selection process that selectes
    citizens from within the jurisdiction of the office to serve in the
    position for one and only one term of office. This would eliminate
    elected office as a full-time career, eliminate the bribery
    of "campaign contributions," eliminate the endless campaigning for
    office, eliminate legislation designed to put and/or keep politicians
    in office, and destroy the power of the political parties. None of
    those is a bad idea in my opinion. It might also cause students to pay
    a bit more attention in history, civics and government classes.




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  • From Gerhard Strangar@2:240/2188.575 to BOB ACKLEY on Thu Aug 1 06:23:57 2019
    Am 29 Jul 19 17:19:28 schrob BOB ACKLEY an ALL zum Thema
    <Elections>

    Over the past twenty years in
    the United State there have been myriad occurrences of election fraud; years ago one precinct reported over 300 votes cast on election day,
    but then the ballot box was opened later there were only fifty ballots
    in it. Unfortunately that was not an isolated occurrence, many
    precincts have reported more votes cast than people who actually voted.

    Isn't all of this public?
    I don't know how it works in the USA, but don't you have volunteers from multiple parties in the polling stations? Don't they have to show the empty ballot boxes to everyone before voting starts? Don't they sit there until all stations close and make sure everyone just puts one ballot into the box? Don't they sort and check them all together in public and then - also in public - count them twice by different persons? Don't the results get published for every polling station?

    Another problem with elections in this country is voter suppression.
    Some suppression is done by local officials, but in my view a bigger problem is people who hang around polling places for the purpose of intimidating voters.

    And by not voting, they would intimidate the ones that you want to select randomly.

    Yet another problem with elections in this country is the fact that politicians literally buy peoples' votes by promising them all sorts
    of "free" government "benefits."

    Don't they lie about that?

    Some people, particularly but not exclusively those of the leftist persuasion, refuse to accept the results of elections

    And rolling dice would be more likely to be accepted? I doubt it.

    If elections are no longer the best method of selecting public
    officials, how should we do it? My personal preference is to eliminate elections entirely and adopt a random selection process that selectes citizens from within the jurisdiction of the office to serve in the position for one and only one term of office.

    I thought you wanted to come up with having the people make every decision by themselves. But random? First of all, how can you make sure, it actually is random? No one can verify if it was randomness that lead to the result. But assuming it was random, what if you select someone who has Alzheimer's or a mentally handicapped person?



    Tschoe mit Oe
    Gerhard
    ---
    * Origin: (2:240/2188.575)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to GERHARD STRANGAR on Thu Aug 1 11:46:54 2019
    Am 29 Jul 19 17:19:28 schrob BOB ACKLEY an ALL zum Thema
    <Elections>

    Over the past twenty years in
    the United State there have been myriad occurrences of election
    fraud;
    years ago one precinct reported over 300 votes cast on election
    day,
    but then the ballot box was opened later there were only fifty
    ballots
    in it. Unfortunately that was not an isolated occurrence, many precincts have reported more votes cast than people who actually
    voted.

    Isn't all of this public?

    It's supposed to be.

    I don't know how it works in the USA, but don't you have volunteers
    from
    multiple parties in the polling stations? Don't they have to show the
    empty
    ballot boxes to everyone before voting starts?

    I don't know.

    Don't they sit there until all
    stations close and make sure everyone just puts one ballot into the
    box?

    Supposedly.

    Don't
    they sort and check them all together in public and then - also in
    public -
    count them twice by different persons?

    I don't know.

    Don't the results get published for
    every polling station?

    Not around here. Results are published for the whole county at one
    time, there's no breakout by precinct or polling station.

    Another problem with elections in this country is voter
    suppression.
    Some suppression is done by local officials, but in my view a
    bigger
    problem is people who hang around polling places for the purpose
    of
    intimidating voters.

    And by not voting, they would intimidate the ones that you want to
    select
    randomly.

    Yet another problem with elections in this country is the fact
    that
    politicians literally buy peoples' votes by promising them all
    sorts
    of "free" government "benefits."

    Don't they lie about that?

    Politicians lie about EVERYTHING, all the time.

    Some people, particularly but not exclusively those of the
    leftist
    persuasion, refuse to accept the results of elections

    And rolling dice would be more likely to be accepted? I doubt it.

    If elections are no longer the best method of selecting public officials, how should we do it? My personal preference is to
    eliminate
    elections entirely and adopt a random selection process that
    selectes
    citizens from within the jurisdiction of the office to serve in
    the
    position for one and only one term of office.

    I thought you wanted to come up with having the people make every
    decision by
    themselves. But random? First of all, how can you make sure, it
    actually is
    random? No one can verify if it was randomness that lead to the
    result. But
    assuming it was random, what if you select someone who has
    Alzheimer's or a
    mentally handicapped person?

    They wouldn't be in the pool of eligibles.

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:229/426 to All on Wed Aug 19 15:47:58 2020
    I have advise that can benefit the left and the right:

    1) Don't let the presidential candidates tell you who to vote for in other elections. I like Trump, but he doesn't know what life is like outside Florida. Don't be starstruck by Biden either; his opinion about who to elect for your district's reps are none of his business. He doesn't know or care about your local life either.

    2) Vote in your primary elections. Look for fighters. This should be common sense, but some people over look it and head straight for the general election with a false sense that the primary gave you the right candidate.

    3) When a candidate refuses to debate, toss them to the curb! A real fighter doesn't pull ridiculous policies out of their pocket after winning an election.

    For me, local politicians screw up my life way more than the feds, so they're more relevant.

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Aaron Thomas on Thu Aug 20 23:45:15 2020
    Hello Aaron,

    I have advise that can benefit the left and the right:

    1) Don't let the presidential candidates tell you who to vote for in other
    elections.

    We do not have national elections.

    2) Vote in your primary elections. Look for fighters. This should be common
    sense, but some people over look it and head straight for the general election with a false sense that the primary gave you the right candidate.

    We do not have primary elections.

    3) When a candidate refuses to debate, toss them to the curb! A real fighter
    doesn't pull ridiculous policies out of their pocket after winning an election.

    Not all candidates are invited to debate.

    For me, local politicians screw up my life way more than the feds, so
    they're more relevant.

    "All politics is local." ~Tip O'Neil

    --Lee

    --
    Probably the best beer in the world

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30.1 to Aaron Thomas on Fri Aug 21 15:59:02 2020
    Hello, Aaron Thomas.
    On 8/19/20 3:47 PM you wrote:

    I have advise that can benefit the left and the right: 1) Don't
    let the presidential candidates tell you who to vote for in other elections. I like Trump, but he doesn't know what life is like
    outside Florida. Don't be starstruck by Biden either; his opinion
    about who to elect for your district's reps are none of his
    business. He doesn't know or care about your local life either.
    2) Vote in your primary elections. Look for fighters. This should
    be common sense, but some people over look it and head straight
    for the general election with a false sense that the primary gave
    you the right candidate. 3) When a candidate refuses to debate,
    toss them to the curb! A real fighter doesn't pull ridiculous
    policies out of their pocket after winning an election. For me,
    local politicians screw up my life way more than the feds, so
    they're more relevant.
    1) don't let anyone tell you who to vote for!

    2) I'm going to tell you who to vote for.

    3) I'm going to tell you who to vote for again


    :rolleyes:
    --
    Mike
    BBS: warensemble.com
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: South of Heaven - warensemble.com (1:154/30.1)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:229/426 to Mike Miller on Fri Aug 21 20:26:06 2020
    1) don't let anyone tell you who to vote for!

    2) I'm going to tell you who to vote for.

    3) I'm going to tell you who to vote for again


    :rolleyes:

    By me telling you to vote for strong candidates, you take that as me
    telling you who to vote for?

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30.1 to Aaron Thomas on Sat Aug 22 05:20:13 2020
    Hello, Aaron Thomas.
    On 8/21/20 8:26 PM you wrote:

    1) don't let anyone tell you who to vote for! 2) I'm going to
    tell you who to vote for. 3) I'm going to tell you who to vote
    for again :rolleyes:
    By me telling you to vote for strong candidates, you take that as
    me telling you who to vote for?
    Go ahead and read what you just said again, very slowly. I'll wait.

    --
    Mike
    BBS: warensemble.com
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: South of Heaven - warensemble.com (1:154/30.1)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:229/426 to Mike Miller on Sat Aug 22 15:30:13 2020
    1) don't let anyone tell you who to vote for! 2) I'm going to
    tell you who to vote for. 3) I'm going to tell you who to vote
    for again :rolleyes:
    By me telling you to vote for strong candidates, you take that as
    me telling you who to vote for?
    Go ahead and read what you just said again, very slowly. I'll wait.

    Message #21109 was my message on this BBS. Not sure if the message # is the same on all BBSs, but I looked at it and you're full of crap.

    Maybe you're reading it too slowly? The slowness is giving you time to halucinate with liberal thoughts before finishing.

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Aaron Thomas on Sun Aug 23 09:51:26 2020
    Re: Re: Elections
    By: Aaron Thomas to Mike Miller on Sat Aug 22 2020 15:30:13


    Message #21109 was my message on this BBS. Not sure if the message #
    is the same on all BBSs


    it is not and most likely never will be... systems have different feeds and retention settings... if a system has to restart the area, the messages start at #1 again...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:229/426 to Mark Lewis on Sun Aug 23 10:41:12 2020
    it is not and most likely never will be... systems have different feeds
    and
    retention settings... if a system has to restart the area, the messages
    sta
    at #1 again...

    Thanks.

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)