• Peurto Rico

    From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Bob Ackley on Tue Apr 9 00:57:00 2019
    On 04-08-19 16:02, Bob Ackley <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Gibraltar <=-

    Definitely. The people of Puerto Rico are American citizens, albeit
    without representation in the Congress.

    I don't think they get to vote for president, either, unless they have
    an official residence in a state and can vote absentee there

    That is unfortunately true. I've heard that many of them are moving to
    Miami so that they can vote in the next presidential election.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 00:58:42, 09 Apr 2019
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to DALE SHIPP on Wed Apr 10 16:02:58 2019
    On 04-08-19 16:02, Bob Ackley <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Gibraltar <=-

    Definitely. The people of Puerto Rico are American citizens,
    albeit
    without representation in the Congress.

    I don't think they get to vote for president, either, unless
    they have
    an official residence in a state and can vote absentee there

    That is unfortunately true. I've heard that many of them are moving
    to
    Miami so that they can vote in the next presidential election.

    There's a very simple reason why they can't vote for president - nor
    can residents of American Samoa and the Mariana Islands, which are also
    US possessions.

    The reason is that the president is elected by the states, not by the
    people, and that's why the Electoral College is set up the way it is
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  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to BOB ACKLEY on Thu Apr 11 00:17:44 2019
    The reason is that the president is elected by the states, not by the people, and that's why the Electoral College is set up the way it is

    And nobody has ever complained until recently.

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to aaron thomas on Thu Apr 11 08:11:08 2019
    The reason is that the president is elected by the states, not by the at>BA> people, and that's why the Electoral College is set up the way it is

    And nobody has ever complained until recently.

    There have been remarks in the past as well but by people who do not understand the full meaning of the system.

    \%/@rd

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to WARD DOSSCHE on Thu Apr 11 17:25:00 2019
    There have been remarks in the past as well but by people who do not understand
    the full meaning of the system.

    The last time I remember it having any vigor was after the 2000 election.
    The sore losers were from the same side as this time, and were so equally confident that they could win without trying that they were also beside themselves with disbelief when they lost.

    The difference between last time and this time was that last time was
    followed fairly shortly by 9/11. The country forgot the election and pulled back together. This time, they've just kept on in disbelief and trying to
    come up with ways to fix something that is not broken.

    Basically, if they "fix the system," they know that they can pretty much
    fix every Presidential election from here on out so that they never lose.

    Mike

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Powell on Sun Apr 14 00:24:46 2019

    Basically, if they "fix the system," they know that they can pretty much fix every Presidential election from here on out so that they never lose.

    My opinion is that the Presidency needs to be redefined.

    I don't think that today it is what the founding fathers intended.

    \%/@rd

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to WARD DOSSCHE on Sun Apr 14 10:00:00 2019
    My opinion is that the Presidency needs to be redefined.
    I don't think that today it is what the founding fathers intended.

    Between the media in general, and social media in particular, I think they
    have become more of a celebrity than anything. I think the definition
    itself is fine. If a President tried to be what they used to be (to be in
    the media less) I think they media will turn on them.

    I am not sure how you change things to make them different, besides taking
    away their social media access while they are in office. I think that
    would be wonderful.

    Another thing that has happened over the years is that the citizens seem to have less respect for the office. While that is no doubt partially do to
    the actions of some of the people who have been in the office, I do not
    think that is all of it. We have more media outlets, online and TV, than
    we did when I was younger. I am not sure if the competition for the next
    big scoop, viewers, and advertising dollars has caused this, but the media coverage overall seems to be much more negative and sensationalized than I
    ever remember it being.

    I suspect that also has a relationship to our respect level for the office.

    Mike

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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Mon Apr 15 15:58:32 2019
    The reason is that the president is elected by the states, not
    by the
    people, and that's why the Electoral College is set up the way
    it is

    And nobody has ever complained until recently.

    Actually they have, every time somebody loses the election in the
    Electoral College
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to MIKE POWELL on Mon Apr 15 16:01:20 2019
    There have been remarks in the past as well but by people who do not understand
    the full meaning of the system.

    The last time I remember it having any vigor was after the 2000
    election.
    The sore losers were from the same side as this time, and were so
    equally
    confident that they could win without trying that they were also
    beside
    themselves with disbelief when they lost.

    The difference between last time and this time was that last time was followed fairly shortly by 9/11. The country forgot the election and
    pulled
    back together. This time, they've just kept on in disbelief and
    trying to
    come up with ways to fix something that is not broken.

    Basically, if they "fix the system," they know that they can pretty
    much
    fix every Presidential election from here on out so that they never
    lose.

    If they abolish the electoral college, then the election will be
    decided by Boston, New York City, Washington DC, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver and, maybe, Dallas. All except maybe
    Dallas are bastions of Corruptocrats. Nobody else need bother to vote
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to WARD DOSSCHE on Mon Apr 15 16:03:14 2019
    Basically, if they "fix the system," they know that they can
    pretty much
    fix every Presidential election from here on out so that they
    never lose.

    My opinion is that the Presidency needs to be redefined.

    I don't think that today it is what the founding fathers intended.

    The founders didn't envision political office as a permanent full time
    job, they assumed that such public offices would be held AFTER one's non-government career
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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to aaron thomas on Wed Apr 17 00:11:47 2019
    The reason is that the president is elected by the states, not by
    the
    people, and that's why the Electoral College is set up the way it is

    And nobody has ever complained until recently.
    because they thought that Hillary had it, all wrapped up...

    . ______
    _[]_||__||
    { Gregory |
    /-00-----00'-;

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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to BOB ACKLEY on Wed Apr 17 00:16:20 2019
    I don't think that today it is what the founding fathers intended.

    The founding fathers also had another tradition; it involved the guilty to be tarred and feathered and carried through the cobblestone streets of Boston.

    I think it is about time we return to the old ways.

    . ______
    _[]_||__||
    { Gregory |
    /-00-----00'-;

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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to GREGORY DEYSS on Wed Apr 17 16:36:22 2019
    The reason is that the president is elected by the states,
    not by the
    people, and that's why the Electoral College is set up the
    way it is

    And nobody has ever complained until recently.
    because they thought that Hillary had it, all wrapped up...

    Actually, some people have been b*tching about it for years if not
    decades. Always the losers, though...
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Wed May 8 15:58:44 2019
    Hillary Clinton received almost 3 million votes more than

    Bush lost the popular vote against Al Gore, but still won the electoral
    vote.
    Why was everyone ok with that? (for the most part?)

    The Corruptocrats screamed bloody murder - and, of course, wanted to do
    away with the Electoral College (the left has wanted to do that for at
    least thirty years).
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to MIKE POWELL on Wed May 8 16:04:20 2019
    Is that what we want? To have an archaic system that simply
    does not work, and fails to reflect the needs and wants of a modern democracy?

    It DOES work.

    Remember that the Founders did not trust the electorate - not even the
    rich, white male landowners who made up the original electorate. It is
    too easy to fix any election - there have been myriad examples of
    election fraud in just the past decade (and you can go back at least as
    far as Roosevelt minor and STILL find election fraud). I refer to the
    two major parties as Corruptocrats and Republicrooks - and I refer to
    senators and representatives as "pompous, primping, preening, posturing prostitutes," you can use a picture of Jerry Nadler to illustrate the
    point
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to MIKE POWELL on Wed May 8 16:06:56 2019
    If she only focuses on New York State, California, and Chicago, like
    Clinton did, she will indeed likely lose.

    If they change to a straight popular vote the left will win every
    election, and need only carry the Washington-Boston corridor, Chicago,
    Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles - all of which are bastions of Corruptocrats
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Wed May 8 16:09:48 2019
    I still cannot believe that there are people who are so dumb that they think the electoral college is why Clinton lost. She only did any

    She didn't debate well. At least Obama used and abused his slogan, fooling many people into thinking it was a deliverable promise.

    Trump crushed her in the debates - but I wish he didn't promise the wall because that's a very difficult one to accomplish.

    The Corruptocrats are going to regret fighting Trump over that wall -
    they're going to need that wall to keep all the "rich" people from
    fleeing the country - with their money
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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Steve Wolf on Wed May 8 23:44:13 2019
    Hello Steve,

    LL> >>MP>If she only focuses on New York State, California, and Chicago, like
    LL> >>MP> Clinton did, she will indeed likely lose.
    LL> >
    LL> >>Those are states where keywords like "sue," "smoke weed," and
    LL> >>"gansta rap" are winners.
    LL> >
    LL> >Also places the Democrats are near guaranteed to win. If she wants
    to wi
    LL> >she will need to campaign in the swing/"purple" states a lot harder than
    LL> >Clinton did.
    I know I know! I ashamed to say I live in New York but what can I do??! I'm
    outnumbered 10-1. I'm STUCK!

    US Senator from New York running for president in 2016.
    Another US Senator from New York running for president in 2020.
    Against the same blond from New York who won the last election.

    Yes. You are doomed. Truly doomed ...

    --Lee

    --
    Make Sure Your Next Erection Is In Safe Hands

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to BOB ACKLEY on Wed May 8 19:34:00 2019
    If she only focuses on New York State, California, and Chicago, like Clinton did, she will indeed likely lose.

    If they change to a straight popular vote the left will win every
    election, and need only carry the Washington-Boston corridor, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles - all of which are bastions of Corruptocrats

    Perfect example of how the Electoral College does work. Back then, I guess
    it would have been NYC and Philly. It is set up, in part, so that the candidates cannot ignore large swaths of the country. HRC did that and the Electoral College did its job by keeping her out of office.

    Mike

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  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to BOB ACKLEY on Wed May 8 23:21:43 2019
    The Corruptocrats screamed bloody murder - and, of course, wanted to do away with the Electoral College (the left has wanted to do that for at least thirty years).

    That sounds like their style.

    What do you think about the electoral college? What would be the drawback of erasing it? (Besides swamp-monsters becoming commanders?)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to MIKE POWELL on Mon May 13 16:24:10 2019
    If she only focuses on New York State, California, and Chicago, like Clinton did, she will indeed likely lose.

    If they change to a straight popular vote the left will win every
    election, and need only carry the Washington-Boston corridor, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles - all of which are bastions of Corruptocrats

    Perfect example of how the Electoral College does work. Back then, I guess it would have been NYC and Philly. It is set up, in part, so that the candidates cannot ignore large swaths of the country. HRC did that and the Electoral College did its job by keeping her out of office.

    People don't understand that the president/veep are elected by the
    states, not by the people. I think that the states that now require that
    their electors vote for the candidate with the highest *nationwide* vote
    total - even if that candidate received precisely zero votes in their
    state - are dumber than the proverbial box of rocks - and, of course,
    they're defeating the purpose of the EC. The Founders didn't trust the
    voters - at the time rich, property owning, white males - to directly
    elect the president
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to AARON THOMAS on Mon May 13 16:27:00 2019
    The Corruptocrats screamed bloody murder - and, of course, wanted
    to do
    away with the Electoral College (the left has wanted to do that for at least thirty years).

    That sounds like their style.

    What do you think about the electoral college?

    It's the method the Founders decided upon that allows the STATES to elect
    the president/veep.

    What would be the drawback of
    erasing it? (Besides swamp-monsters becoming commanders?)

    The president/veep would be elected by the Boston-DC corridor, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco (Bay Area), Los Angeles and, maybe, Dallas.
    Everyplace else in the country safely could be ignored. All of those
    places (except, maybe, Dallas) are bastions of the Corruptocrats
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to BOB ACKLEY on Tue May 14 18:50:00 2019
    People don't understand that the president/veep are elected by the
    states, not by the people. I think that the states that now require that their electors vote for the candidate with the highest *nationwide* vote total - even if that candidate received precisely zero votes in their
    state - are dumber than the proverbial box of rocks - and, of course,
    they're defeating the purpose of the EC. The Founders didn't trust the voters - at the time rich, property owning, white males - to directly
    elect the president

    I have not paid too much attention but it was my impression that most of
    the states that are doing that are states that the Democrats usually win anyway. They are assuming that because it happened this last time, that
    the Democrats will always win the popular vote. Seeing as how assuming
    makes an ass out of the person doing it... if those states had that law in 2004, 1988, 1984, 1980, etc., they'd would have been forced to cast their
    state votes for the Republicans instead. So, yeah, in those instances it will really screw their state voters.

    Otherwise, their state voters won't notice much of a difference, and
    neither would we, because their state will likely vote for the Democrat.

    Mike

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  • From Steve Wolf@1:275/89 to BOB ACKLEY on Tue May 14 19:12:40 2019
    Re: Re: Peurto Rico
    By: BOB ACKLEY to AARON THOMAS on Mon May 13 2019 04:27 pm

    The Corruptocrats screamed bloody murder - and, of course, wanted
    to do
    away with the Electoral College (the left has wanted to do that
    for at least thirty years).

    What do you think about the electoral college?
    It's the method the Founders decided upon that allows the STATES to elect the president/veep.

    What would be the drawback of
    erasing it? (Besides swamp-monsters becoming commanders?)
    The president/veep would be elected by the Boston-DC corridor, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco (Bay Area), Los Angeles and, maybe, Dallas. Everyplace else in the country safely could be ignored. All of those

    Nah New York would be the Major player for the Dems.The state would cast a dark shadow over any of the surrounding states.
    Regards,
    Steve Wolf
    HusTler/Heliarc SysOp
    Havens BBS *havens.synchro.net (1:267/160)*
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to BOB ACKLEY on Wed May 15 17:55:19 2019
    Hello Bob,

    The Corruptocrats screamed bloody murder - and, of course, wanted
    to do
    away with the Electoral College (the left has wanted to do that for
    at
    least thirty years).

    That sounds like their style.

    What do you think about the electoral college?

    It's the method the Founders decided upon that allows the STATES to elect
    the president/veep.

    If no candidate receives a majority of electoral votes, then
    the House of Representatives chooses the president with each state
    having 1 vote, and the Senate chooses the vice president with each
    senator having 1 vote.

    What would be the drawback of
    erasing it? (Besides swamp-monsters becoming commanders?)

    The president/veep would be elected by the Boston-DC corridor, Chicago, >Seattle, San Francisco (Bay Area), Los Angeles and, maybe, Dallas.
    Everyplace else in the country safely could be ignored. All of those
    places (except, maybe, Dallas) are bastions of the Corruptocrats

    The candidates would campaign differently, and visit more places.
    The electoral college process is far more limiting, resulting in
    much fewer campaign stops for candidates.

    IOW, the electoral college process is nothing more than a polite
    fiction. A means to con the electorate into believing it is taking
    part in a fair election.

    --Lee

    --
    We're Great In Bed

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to LEE LOFASO on Wed May 15 20:12:00 2019
    The candidates would campaign differently, and visit more places.
    The electoral college process is far more limiting, resulting in
    much fewer campaign stops for candidates.

    No, you have that wrong. Remember, that is what Hilarious tried (fewer
    stops) and it DID NOT WORK. If there was no electoral college, what she did would have worked. She would only need to campaign and play to the areas
    that Bob listed. She'd never visit Kentucky or any state that surrounds it (except maybe Northern Virginia). She'd certainly have gotten away with ignoring Wisconsin and Michigan.

    IOW, the electoral college process is nothing more than a polite
    fiction. A means to con the electorate into believing it is taking
    part in a fair election.

    The only times it has been "unfair" is when a Democrat has not managed to
    win it.

    Mike

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Powell on Thu May 16 07:20:49 2019

    The only times it has been "unfair" is when a Democrat has not managed to win it.

    When put in its proper perspective, i,e, the President is chosen by the States and not by the people, it makes perfect sense.

    Our head of government, i.e. the Prime Minister, is not elected either and I think that's true for about every other country around here.

    The difference, I think, lies in the amount of power the head of state gets.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to Lee Lofaso on Thu May 16 10:12:16 2019
    IOW, the electoral college process is nothing more than a polite
    fiction. A means to con the electorate into believing it is taking
    part in a fair election.

    But it works great when it gets Indonesians elected :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to WARD DOSSCHE on Fri May 17 17:08:00 2019
    When put in its proper perspective, i,e, the President is chosen by the States
    and not by the people, it makes perfect sense.

    Correct.

    Our head of government, i.e. the Prime Minister, is not elected either and I >think that's true for about every other country around here.

    The difference, I think, lies in the amount of power the head of state gets.

    Or maybe the perceived amount of power. I don't think that the President
    has as much power as we citizens perceive the position to have. They get blamed, and credited, for a lot of things they don't really have much true participation in.

    Mike

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Mike Powell on Sat May 18 19:49:04 2019
    Hello Mike,

    The candidates would campaign differently, and visit more places.
    The electoral college process is far more limiting, resulting in
    much fewer campaign stops for candidates.

    No, you have that wrong. Remember, that is what Hilarious tried (fewer >stops) and it DID NOT WORK. If there was no electoral college, what she did >would have worked. She would only need to campaign and play to the areas >that Bob listed. She'd never visit Kentucky or any state that surrounds it >(except maybe Northern Virginia). She'd certainly have gotten away with >ignoring Wisconsin and Michigan.

    Both candidates would have played the game far differently had
    there been no electoral college process. Who would have won under
    those conditions is anybody's guess. Some would say Clinton, based
    on her results from the election held under electoral college rules.
    But that is speculative.

    Before the election, Donald Trump said publicly he would prefer
    a popular vote than the current electoral college process. After
    the election, he changed his mind. As for who would have won had
    it been a popular vote, Trump admitted the race would have been
    contested by both candidates differently.

    Trump also claimed the election was rigged, with lots of "fake"
    votes having been counted for his opponent. Meaning he was the
    one who got the most popular votes. After all, he counted those
    votes himself ...

    IOW, the electoral college process is nothing more than a polite
    fiction. A means to con the electorate into believing it is taking
    part in a fair election.

    The only times it has been "unfair" is when a Democrat has not managed to
    win it.

    Gore v. Bush

    Total votes cast - 9

    GWB - 5
    Al Gore 4

    The closest election in US history.

    --Lee

    --
    Everybody Loves Our Buns

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to aaron thomas on Sat May 18 19:49:18 2019
    Hello Aaron,

    IOW, the electoral college process is nothing more than a polite >LL>fiction. A means to con the electorate into believing it is taking >LL>part in a fair election.

    But it works great when it gets Indonesians elected :)

    I haven't seen many Indonesians with orange hair.
    Except for Clyde the Orangatun, who starred in some
    of Clint Eastwood's finest films ...

    --Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Mike Powell on Sun May 19 22:53:45 2019
    Hello Mike,

    When put in its proper perspective, i,e, the President is chosen by the
    States
    and not by the people, it makes perfect sense.

    Correct.

    Our head of government, i.e. the Prime Minister, is not elected either and
    I
    think that's true for about every other country around here.

    The difference, I think, lies in the amount of power the head of state
    gets.

    Or maybe the perceived amount of power. I don't think that the President
    has as much power as we citizens perceive the position to have. They get >blamed, and credited, for a lot of things they don't really have much true >participation in.

    Which is the reality? Power, or the perception of power?

    Is power a reality, or is it a perception? Trump tries to
    give everybody the impression that he is the wealthiest person
    on the face of this planet. Not that he is.

    I'll agree with that. The presidency is a weak office, as given
    in the US Constitution. Article I is about the Congress, noting
    the office of US Representative first. Article II is about the
    Executive Branch, noting the office of President sixth. Pretty
    low in order of importance (amount of power), in my opinion.
    Article III is about the Judicial Branch, whose members are
    appointed rather than elected.

    --Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to Lee Lofaso on Sun May 19 00:59:43 2019
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

    You're QWK reader does Democrat taglines? :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to aaron thomas on Sat May 25 00:08:17 2019
    Hello Aaron,

    Your Hole Is Our Goal

    You're QWK reader does Democrat taglines? :)

    I'll have to update them. Last time I did was after
    the women's march in DC. Not sure if they were Democrats
    or Republicans. But Madonna was there, and we all know
    what she wanted to do with the White House. :)

    --Lee

    --
    As Good As It Looks

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)