• Screen or tmux?

    From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to All on Thu Apr 29 19:52:00 2021
    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Thanks.



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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 03:29:54 2021
    Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Gamgee to All on Thu Apr 29 2021 07:52 pm

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Thanks.




    I got started with screen, but nowadays I use tmux more often. The main reason is that it is in OpenBSD's base install, so I just got used to it. It is also licensed under a BSD-like license, if you care about such things. In addition, its keyboard commands are a bit easier for my fingers.

    In the end of the day it is just another Vim vs Emacs war.


    --
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    ---
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  • From acn@VERT/IMZADI to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 10:49:40 2021
    Hi Gamgee,

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    I'm using screen, just because that's the command I learned first and it works just fine for the purposes I need it, which are mostly "keep a session open even if I get disconnected from my SSH session" and "use a single SSH session but run multiple shell commands in parallel".
    And I got used to the basic Ctrl-A key commands :)

    Regards,
    Anna

    ---
    Synchronet Imzadi Box -*- box.imzadi.de
  • From Abaffa@VERT/BAFFAQWK to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 08:08:07 2021
    I use tmux... I has a status bar that's useful to check the session id
    and it's easier.


    On 29/04/2021 21:52, Gamgee wrote:
    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Thanks.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL


    ---
    Synchronet Baffa BBS... from old times...
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Arelor on Fri Apr 30 07:43:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    I got started with screen, but nowadays I use tmux more often.
    The main reason is that it is in OpenBSD's base install, so I
    just got used to it. It is also licensed under a BSD-like
    license, if you care about such things. In addition, its keyboard
    commands are a bit easier for my fingers.

    Okay. The commands are all customizable if desired... I've always used
    screen too, but have been playing with tmux some lately. It does have
    some VERY nice features, and is very configurable. I especially like
    being able to have more than one "window" available (proper term might
    be "session", I'm not sure). Also splitting it into multi panes is very
    cool. I will probably eventually switch over to using it exclusively.

    In the end of the day it is just another Vim vs Emacs war.

    Hehe, I suppose that is probably true. Nano for the win. ;-)



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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to acn on Fri Apr 30 07:46:00 2021
    acn wrote to Gamgee <=-

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    I'm using screen, just because that's the command I learned first
    and it works just fine for the purposes I need it, which are
    mostly "keep a session open even if I get disconnected from my
    SSH session" and "use a single SSH session but run multiple shell
    commands in parallel".

    Yeah, same here. Take a look at tmux if you get bored, it has some
    pretty cool features that go a little beyond screen. I still mostly use screen too, but will likely move to tmux eventually.

    And I got used to the basic Ctrl-A key commands :)

    Yep. Tmux uses Ctrl-B as it's prefix by default, which is extremely
    awkward, but thankfully it's easily configured to Ctrl-A. ;-)



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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Abaffa on Fri Apr 30 13:28:00 2021
    Abaffa wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I use tmux... I has a status bar that's useful to check the
    session id and it's easier.

    Yep, I like that too. Thanks for the reply.



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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 16:57:29 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Gamgee to acn on Fri Apr 30 2021 07:46 am

    Yep. Tmux uses Ctrl-B as it's prefix by default, which is extremely awkward, but thankfully it's easily configured to Ctrl-A. ;-)

    Yeah, Ctrl-B doesn't work for me (being a vi/vim user) - so it's the first thing I change when using tmux (which admittedly, isn't all that often).
    --
    digital man

    Rush quote #61:
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    Norco, CA WX: 90.9F, 17.0% humidity, 8 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
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  • From deon@VERT/ALTERANT to Gamgee on Sat May 1 09:58:33 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Gamgee to Arelor on Fri Apr 30 2021 07:43 am

    Okay. The commands are all customizable if desired... I've always used screen too, but have been playing with tmux some lately. It does have some VERY nice features, and is very configurable. I especially like being able to have more than one "window" available (proper term might
    be "session", I'm not sure). Also splitting it into multi panes is very cool. I will probably eventually switch over to using it exclusively.

    I'm with you on this.

    I've been using screen for a loooong time, but discovered tmuxinator for the MAC, with some themes, which provides a nice sexy screen.

    So I'm in the process of switching over to tmux and having to learn the tmux way of things - all because of a sexy screen!

    I'm probably using 2% of it right now, and its on my list to understand it more, but thats enough for me to be dangerous now.

    ...

    ... Money can't buy friends but you can get a better class of enemy.

    ---
    Synchronet Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Nelgin@VERT/EOTLBBS to Gamgee on Sat May 1 01:39:48 2021
    Gamgee wrote:
    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?


    I use screen because I'm used to it. Does everything I need.

    ---
    Synchronet End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Digital Man on Sat May 1 07:16:00 2021
    Digital Man wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Yep. Tmux uses Ctrl-B as it's prefix by default, which is extremely awkward, but thankfully it's easily configured to Ctrl-A. ;-)

    Yeah, Ctrl-B doesn't work for me (being a vi/vim user) - so it's
    the first thing I change when using tmux (which admittedly, isn't
    all that often).

    Hard to believe that *anyone* would actually prefer Ctrl-B... :-)

    You probably already know this, but you can "permanently" define your
    desired prefix key in a config file (Linux "dotfile") called .tmux.conf

    My very simple config looks like this:

    # remap prefix from 'C-b' to 'C-a'
    unbind C-b
    set-option -g prefix C-a
    bind-key C-a send-prefix

    # split panes using | and -
    bind | split-window -h
    bind - split-window -v
    unbind '"'
    unbind %

    # switch panes using Alt-arrow without prefix
    bind -n M-Left select-pane -L
    bind -n M-Right select-pane -R
    bind -n M-Up select-pane -U
    bind -n M-Down select-pane -D


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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to deon on Sat May 1 07:20:00 2021
    deon wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Okay. The commands are all customizable if desired... I've always used screen too, but have been playing with tmux some lately. It does have some VERY nice features, and is very configurable. I especially like being able to have more than one "window" available (proper term might
    be "session", I'm not sure). Also splitting it into multi panes is very cool. I will probably eventually switch over to using it exclusively.

    I'm with you on this.

    I've been using screen for a loooong time, but discovered
    tmuxinator for the MAC, with some themes, which provides a nice
    sexy screen.

    So I'm in the process of switching over to tmux and having to
    learn the tmux way of things - all because of a sexy screen!

    Cosmetic appeal is very important to most people. I don't use a Mac,
    but I bet it looks good!

    I'm probably using 2% of it right now, and its on my list to
    understand it more, but thats enough for me to be dangerous now.

    I'm in the same place. I really like it and am going to get better at
    using it, at least the basics. The multi-pane stuff (split windows) is especially attractive to me.


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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Nelgin on Sat May 1 07:22:00 2021
    Nelgin wrote to Gamgee <=-

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    I use screen because I'm used to it. Does everything I need.

    Yeah, I've always looked at it that way too. The thing is, once you see
    some of the features that can be used, you start to wonder "How did I
    ever get by without this?" :-)

    The split-window options are excellent. CLI multitasking. Hahaha


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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to acn on Sat May 1 10:31:00 2021
    I'm using screen, just because that's the command I learned first and it works just fine for the purposes I need it, which are mostly "keep a session open even if I get disconnected from my SSH session" and "use a single SSH session but run multiple shell commands in parallel".
    And I got used to the basic Ctrl-A key commands :)

    I'm jumping in here, and apologies for such. :P

    I do not use screen/tmux... I've used it a time or two that I needed to do something special with irssi (put handles on the left side of screen..) but I don't understand/know what its uses ARE.

    I think I can... SSH into my BBS box and say, run the server.. and if I close the SSH window it'll keep the server open on the BBS Box side?

    Would you mind explaining a quick overview of what screen is? And used for? Possibly how it help sysOps running a BBS on another system on their network.

    Also, pls know that I'm 'man screen'ing right now... :P



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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to paulie420 on Sat May 1 17:33:00 2021
    On 01 May 2021, paulie420 said the following...

    I do not use screen/tmux... I've used it a time or two that I needed to
    do something special with irssi (put handles on the left side of
    screen..) but I don't understand/know what its uses ARE.

    traditionally when a process's controlling terminal closes, the programs running in it close. so yeah, like if your ssh session were to disconnect because the power went out, what you were currently doing would abruptly end. this could be particularly annoying if you were doing something like compiling firefox ;) (from remote i guess so the server still had power lol)

    so now screen/tmux take the role of controlling terminal and have special handling for that event.

    this probably mattered more when these machines were actually multiuser (as in actual people) and resources were scarce. there are a few public *nix machines out there that do still limit users to one process running while they're not logged in (or one + tmux).

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/04/20 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From deon@VERT/ALTERANT to Digital Man on Sun May 2 09:48:31 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Digital Man to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 2021 04:57 pm

    Yeah, Ctrl-B doesn't work for me (being a vi/vim user) - so it's the first thing I change when using tmux (which admittedly, isn't
    all that often).

    What does Ctrl-B do in vi?

    (Learning something new about vi every day, and I've only been using it since forever..)

    ...

    ... True love is when you spend 50 for an operation on a 5 dog.

    ---
    Synchronet Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From deon@VERT/ALTERANT to paulie420 on Sun May 2 09:55:02 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: paulie420 to acn on Sat May 01 2021 10:31 am

    Hey Paulie,

    I do not use screen/tmux... I've used it a time or two that I needed to do something special with irssi (put handles on the left side
    of screen..) but I don't understand/know what its uses ARE.

    The main reason I started using it is for disconnected sessions.

    I can jump into a box, do some work, disconnect, comeback later, re-connect and see what happened.

    In the old modem dialup internet days (or iffy internet connections), this was a saviour.

    These days, I work at my desk on an iMac, or sit in front of the TV with a MacBook - and I can "switch" to either and continue where I left off.

    The other benefit, especially when developing, one window "pane" is the tail of a debug log file, while another is an interface into the DB and the 3rd where I'm watching incoming HTTP requests. I can zoom into any pane to see more content, or have all 3 on the screen at once while I'm trying to figure out why an API call is failing.



    ...

    ... Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice.

    ---
    Synchronet Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Digital Man@VERT to deon on Sat May 1 17:47:31 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: deon to Digital Man on Sun May 02 2021 09:48 am

    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Digital Man to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 2021 04:57 pm

    Yeah, Ctrl-B doesn't work for me (being a vi/vim user) - so it's the first thing I change when using tmux (which admittedly, isn't
    all that often).

    What does Ctrl-B do in vi?

    Scrolls backward (Ctrl-F for forward).

    (Learning something new about vi every day, and I've only been using it since forever..)

    Oh, I know there's plenty about vi/vim I still don't know.

    One thing my fingers learned long ago though: Ctrl-[ (to exit edit mode) is quicker than reaching for the ESC key.
    --
    digital man

    Rush quote #23:
    Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose
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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to fusion on Sat May 1 17:59:00 2021
    traditionally when a process's controlling terminal closes, the programs running in it close. so yeah, like if your ssh session were to disconnect because the power went out, what you were currently doing would abruptly end. this could be particularly annoying if you were doing something
    like compiling firefox ;) (from remote i guess so the server still had power lol)

    Understood - and is there a way to get back to that process again, from either the host OS or a new remote ssh (or whatever)? And... if thats the ENTIRE thing, as stated, I can man it... just chit chatting. :P



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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to deon on Sat May 1 18:00:00 2021
    The main reason I started using it is for disconnected sessions.

    I can jump into a box, do some work, disconnect, comeback later, re-connect and see what happened.

    Awesome. I just asked another posted this question - and thanks.. so it seems like I *need* to brush up on and learn to use screen. As you stated, it sounds like a saviour - and I've USED it before when... told to; but I didn't grasp it.

    I will after today, however. :P Thanks all.
    Thanks Deon.



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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to paulie420 on Sat May 1 21:35:00 2021
    paulie420 wrote to acn <=-

    I'm using screen, just because that's the command I learned first and it works just fine for the purposes I need it, which are mostly "keep a session open even if I get disconnected from my SSH session" and "use a single SSH session but run multiple shell commands in parallel".
    And I got used to the basic Ctrl-A key commands :)

    I'm jumping in here, and apologies for such. :P

    Jumping in is allowed, and encouraged!

    I do not use screen/tmux... I've used it a time or two that I
    needed to do something special with irssi (put handles on the
    left side of screen..) but I don't understand/know what its uses
    ARE.

    I think I can... SSH into my BBS box and say, run the server..
    and if I close the SSH window it'll keep the server open on the
    BBS Box side?

    Yes.

    Would you mind explaining a quick overview of what screen is? And
    used for? Possibly how it help sysOps running a BBS on another
    system on their network.

    It's a terminal multiplexer. It allows you to connect into a remote
    system, open a screen session (terminal), and run something in that
    terminal. You can then "detach" from that screen session, close your
    SSH connection, and go on with whatever else you might be doing. Later,
    you can SSH back to that machine, and "reconnect" to that open terminal
    which is still running whatever you started in it.

    Here's an example of one way that I use it. I have an Raspberry Pi
    running 24x7, which does various things for me (it does not run my BBS though). I SSH to it from my laptop (either from within the LAN, or
    remotely from another state if I'm traveling). I have opened a screen
    session on it, and started the 'irssi' IRC client in that terminal.
    This connects and idles in the Synchronet IRC channel. I then can
    detach from that session (with Ctrl-A, D), and close my SSH connection.
    A few hours, or a few days later, I can SSH back to the RPi, restore my
    screen session (with "screen -r"), and BAM! my irssi client is there
    where I can scroll back and see what's been talked about while I was
    gone. Maybe I add some comments, whatever. Then I detach and close
    again, and the irssi client continues running while I'm gone. This
    allows me to maintain a "presence" in that channel even if I'm not
    actively watching it for a while, and I can catch up when it's
    convenient for me. You can open as many screen sessions on a remote
    host as you'd like, all doing something different, and all will keep on working after you detach. Pretty cool stuff.

    Also, pls know that I'm 'man screen'ing right now... :P

    Good call!



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  • From deon@VERT/ALTERANT to Digital Man on Sun May 2 13:08:42 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Digital Man to deon on Sat May 01 2021 05:47 pm

    What does Ctrl-B do in vi?
    Scrolls backward (Ctrl-F for forward).

    Ahh, ofcourse - I have used it sometimes but not that often.

    One thing my fingers learned long ago though: Ctrl-[ (to exit edit mode) is quicker than reaching for the ESC key.

    So I dont use either of those - I'm a :wq! or :q! exit guy !

    ...

    ... I used to be an agnostic, but now I'm not so sure.

    ---
    Synchronet Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From BoonDock@VERT/GATOFUEG to deon on Sun May 2 00:30:52 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: deon to Digital Man on Sun May 02 2021 13:08:42

    One thing my fingers learned long ago though: Ctrl-[ (to exit edit
    mode) is quicker than reaching for the ESC key.

    So I dont use either of those - I'm a :wq! or :q! exit guy !

    You still have to "ESC" before you can :x if you're in edit/insert mode. That's what the ctrl-[ is helpful for.. Interesingly enough, my ESC key is broken, so other than using an on-screen keyboard, I've had to figure this out lately... ;-)

    BoonDock

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    ... The cause of problems are solutions!

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  • From deon@VERT/ALTERANT to BoonDock on Sun May 2 16:06:45 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: BoonDock to deon on Sun May 02 2021 12:30 am

    Howdy,

    You still have to "ESC" before you can :x if you're in edit/insert mode. That's what the ctrl-[ is helpful for.. Interesingly enough,
    my ESC key is broken, so other than using an on-screen keyboard, I've had to figure this out lately... ;-)

    So you do. Its muscle memory for me and I do it without thinking about it.

    ...

    ... Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country.

    ---
    Synchronet Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Jimmy Mac@VERT/BAFFAQWK to Gamgee on Sun May 2 01:09:16 2021
    Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Gamgee to All on Thu Apr 29 2021 19:52:00

    ohmyzsh + ohmytmux + powerline10k + spacevim. Configurable, customizable, can bind all the keys to do the things I want it to do. You can also recover your windows and setup post reboot with tmux-resurrect or tmux-continuum.



    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Thanks.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.

    ---
    Synchronet Baffa BBS... from old times...
  • From Renagademaster@VERT/BTTMLSS to paulie420 on Sun May 2 08:31:00 2021
    I do not use screen/tmux... I've used it a time or two that I needed to
    do something special with irssi (put handles on the left side of
    screen..) but I don't understand/know what its uses ARE.

    My two use cases are Weechat and Minecraft Server seems to want to run
    in foreground, it does make it easy to connect back to MC server and issue commands. Apart from that I do prefer to run things as background processes.

    RenMas

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Jimmy Mac on Sun May 2 07:50:00 2021
    Jimmy Mac wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Gamgee to All on Thu Apr 29 2021 19:52:00

    ohmyzsh + ohmytmux + powerline10k + spacevim. Configurable,
    customizable, can bind all the keys to do the things I want it to
    do. You can also recover your windows and setup post reboot with tmux-resurrect or tmux-continuum.

    Interesting..... thanks.



    ... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Jimmy Mac on Sun May 2 22:09:00 2021
    Jimmy Mac wrote to Gamgee <=-

    @MSGID: <608E25EC.21.dove-unix@baffa.zapto.org>
    @REPLY: <608B54B9.392.dove-unix@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Gamgee to All on Thu
    Apr 29 2021 19:52:00

    ohmyzsh + ohmytmux + powerline10k + spacevim. Configurable,
    customizable, can bind all the keys to do the things I want it to do.
    You can also recover your windows and setup post reboot with tmux-resurrect or tmux-continuum.



    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Thanks.




    Screen, but only really because that is what I learned and know, and because it has zmodem support, which is kind of cool, not because I think it is better.

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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Gamgee on Sun May 2 12:44:00 2021
    It's a terminal multiplexer. It allows you to connect into a remote system, open a screen session (terminal), and run something in that terminal. You can then "detach" from that screen session, close your
    SSH connection, and go on with whatever else you might be doing. Later, you can SSH back to that machine, and "reconnect" to that open terminal which is still running whatever you started in it.

    Awesome; what I've learned so far is that I'm missing out by not using one or the other. I know screen a little, so I guess I'll start there.. stupid, too - its exactly what I've needed on many occasions. Derp.

    Here's an example of one way that I use it. I have an Raspberry Pi running 24x7, which does various things for me (it does not run my BBS though). I SSH to it from my laptop (either from within the LAN, or remotely from another state if I'm traveling). I have opened a screen session on it, and started the 'irssi' IRC client in that terminal.
    This connects and idles in the Synchronet IRC channel. I then can
    detach from that session (with Ctrl-A, D), and close my SSH connection. A few hours, or a few days later, I can SSH back to the RPi, restore my screen session (with "screen -r"), and BAM! my irssi client is there where I can scroll back and see what's been talked about while I was gone. Maybe I add some comments, whatever. Then I detach and close again, and the irssi client continues running while I'm gone. This allows me to maintain a "presence" in that channel even if I'm not actively watching it for a while, and I can catch up when it's
    convenient for me. You can open as many screen sessions on a remote
    host as you'd like, all doing something different, and all will keep on working after you detach. Pretty cool stuff.

    Yep... awesome. :P I'll be doing the same exact thing shortly. Like I can have one Raspberry Pi that allows me access to my local network and screen around from there. Again, I'll brush up myself but... seems like I can have a few things 'screened' and ... I'm sure theres a way to get a list of whats open on what screens... :P

    I should have investigated this long ago - as I've used it with irssi, too, to put the handle lists on the right hand side of the screen - but I didn't realize that it does much more for the type of computery stuff I do all the time. :P

    (I'll admit that I've used VNC to do much the same... with a lot more resources that screen would take. Ugh.)



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  • From Digital Man@VERT to deon on Sun May 2 17:00:58 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: deon to Digital Man on Sun May 02 2021 01:08 pm

    One thing my fingers learned long ago though: Ctrl-[ (to exit edit mode) is quicker than reaching for the ESC key.

    So I dont use either of those - I'm a :wq! or :q! exit guy !

    How do you exit edit mode?
    --
    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #46:
    "Not an Exit" - we don't want an exit. Well that's true.
    Norco, CA WX: 63.9F, 66.0% humidity, 6 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Nelgin on Mon May 3 08:13:00 2021
    Nelgin wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I use screen because I'm used to it. Does everything I need.

    I have a love / hate relationship with screen. Even on the best of
    days, screen breaks emulation when I go between traditional Linux-based
    systems and AIX. AIX uses vt220/vt320 throughout SMIT (smitty). I've
    got to the point where I don't use SMIT because the emulation keeps
    getting trashed and have to remember command-line syntaxes that go
    upwards of 100 characters. :|


    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 06:59:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to All <=-

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Tmux - it just makes more sense to me. I'm a little late to the game,
    playing more with screen multiplexers now. Where I used to open a couple of Putty sessions, I can now do everything with one session and Tmux.


    ... Look at the order in which you do things
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Fri Apr 30 07:01:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-

    In the end of the day it is just another Vim vs Emacs war.

    Makes me want to dig up my old geek code block and update it to add a screen multiplexer listing.



    ... Look at the order in which you do things
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Wa1tnr@VERT/CARNAGE to All on Tue May 4 09:59:35 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Dream Master to Nelgin on Mon May 03 2021 08:13 am

    I use picocom. It's got enough command line switches to
    warrant a shell script to launch it.

    Will convert line endings on the fly; supports ascii-xfr.

    I use it to talk to microcontrollers via USART or USB
    (CDC/ACM stuff).

    I have no idea if it'll telnet or ssh.

    Sometimes I'll try tinyfugue by .. I don't remember .. at
    some point I'm pretty sure I need to be listening for telnet
    inbound connections to use tinyfugue effectively (because it
    was designed to talk to telnet destinations such as LambdaMOO).

    So I probably /world localhost or similar to telnet to the
    (Linux) locahost. When I get a shell prompt (split screen,
    like IRSSI for example) I can then ssh out to a BBS on the
    Internet.

    SCREEN is great if you have a shell account on someone else's
    machine, because of the detach/attach feature; it lets you
    stay logged into a BBS that doesn't time out your session,
    even when your modem has dropped carrier (including shutting
    down a DSL modem for any reason you may want to do so).

    ---
    Synchronet My Brand-New BBS
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 4 13:39:00 2021
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Tmux - it just makes more sense to me. I'm a little late to the
    game, playing more with screen multiplexers now. Where I used to
    open a couple of Putty sessions, I can now do everything with one
    session and Tmux.

    Well, to be fair, it sounds like you could also do that with one session
    and screen.

    The question is why would one choose one or the other (tmux or screen)?



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Gamgee on Wed May 5 07:01:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    The question is why would one choose one or the other (tmux or screen)?

    <flips coin>

    I'm on tilde.club and someone on there wrote a nice HOWTO on using tmux.
    Once I started googling tmux, my google news feed was *filled* with helpful web sites outlining how to use it.




    ... Change ambiguities to specifics
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 6 08:04:00 2021
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

    @MSGID: <609333BF.2679.dove.dove-nix@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <60919499.428.dove-unix@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    The question is why would one choose one or the other (tmux or screen)?

    <flips coin>

    I'm on tilde.club and someone on there wrote a nice HOWTO on using
    tmux. Once I started googling tmux, my google news feed was *filled*
    with helpful web sites outlining how to use it.

    It tmux had zmodem support, I would switch, but it doesn't. I am actually using tmux now to try it out. I actually find it useful for a quick file transfer, its a little more convienient than using SSH or netcat.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Boraxman on Fri May 7 11:42:29 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 06 2021 08:04 am

    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

    @MSGID: <609333BF.2679.dove.dove-nix@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <60919499.428.dove-unix@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    The question is why would one choose one or the other (tmux or screen)?

    <flips coin>

    I'm on tilde.club and someone on there wrote a nice HOWTO on using tmux. Once I started googling tmux, my google news feed was *filled* with helpful web sites outlining how to use it.

    It tmux had zmodem support, I would switch, but it doesn't. I am actually using tm
    now to try it out. I actually find it useful for a quick file transfer, its a litt
    more convienient than using SSH or netcat.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I used c-kermit under tmux for a while in order to handle XYZModem stuff for a while.
    It works ok. Still it looks like the process is a bit more streamlined under screen,
    or that is the memory I have from when I looked into the documentation.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Ksource@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 17 03:19:00 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 2021 06:59 am

    Gamgee wrote to All <=-

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Tmux - it just makes more sense to me. I'm a little late to the game, playing more with screen multiplexers now. Where I used to open a couple of Putty sessions, I can now do everything with one session and Tmux.

    Honestly I think you're in a good position. I use screen because I've been around for a while and screen was the first really decent terminal
    multiplexer. The codebase for GNU Screen is pretty gnarly and there's not a
    lot of substantial development on it to speak of. tmux has a cleaner (and smaller/simpler) codebase and attracts more development.

    I tried tmux once and it was fine. I spent all my time configuration it to
    work like screen and thought "well, this is pointless, I'll just use screen".
    I think if I were coming into it new and didn't have any habits and muscle-memory built up, I would start with tmux, though.

    I'll use screen until I need something screen can't do, and then I'll switch
    to tmux, I think.




    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Ksource on Mon May 17 21:37:00 2021
    Ksource wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    @MSGID: <60A218E4.5774.dove-nix@cavebbs.homeip.net>
    @REPLY: <60914C34.2674.dove.dove-nix@realitycheckbbs.org>
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Gamgee
    on Fri Apr 30 2021 06:59 am

    Gamgee wrote to All <=-

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Tmux - it just makes more sense to me. I'm a little late to the game, playing more with screen multiplexers now. Where I used to open a couple of Putty sessions, I can now do everything with one session and Tmux.

    Honestly I think you're in a good position. I use screen because I've
    been around for a while and screen was the first really decent terminal multiplexer. The codebase for GNU Screen is pretty gnarly and there's
    not a lot of substantial development on it to speak of. tmux has a
    cleaner (and smaller/simpler) codebase and attracts more development.

    I tried tmux once and it was fine. I spent all my time configuration it
    to work like screen and thought "well, this is pointless, I'll just use screen". I think if I were coming into it new and didn't have any
    habits and muscle-memory built up, I would start with tmux, though.

    I'll use screen until I need something screen can't do, and then I'll switch to tmux, I think.

    I've started trying Tmux in place of Screen, and I like it, but for the most part, screen has all the functionality I need anyway, and the zmodem support that screen has is actually more useful than you think.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From PhazeVektor@VERT/PEDALION to Boraxman on Wed May 19 16:09:00 2021
    part, screen has all the functionality I need anyway, and the zmodem suppo that screen has is actually more useful than you think.


    Funny - I've used `screen` for years and never come across zmodem support. I use that feature of SecureCRT a lot, to drop files onto my terminal session
    and upload. I'm guessing this is what screen does as well?! I'll have to
    check it out.

    ~pv

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Pedalion BBS
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to PhazeVektor on Sun May 23 20:25:00 2021
    PhazeVektor wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <60A53838.11131.dove-lnx@vert.synchro.net>
    part, screen has all the functionality I need anyway, and the zmodem suppo that screen has is actually more useful than you think.


    Funny - I've used `screen` for years and never come across zmodem
    support. I use that feature of SecureCRT a lot, to drop files onto my terminal session and upload. I'm guessing this is what screen does as well?! I'll have to check it out.

    Sort of. With screen, you set the zmodem setting to "catch", and when you run "sz" or "rz" on the remote machine, screen will pick it up, and prompt you to run "rz" or "sz" on the local machine. Annoyingly, when you send on the local machine, you have to type the path (so it means you have to remember the full filename, there is no selector). But it works. Sometimes you need to add the '-e' option to escape control sequences.

    SCP is better, but when you are already logged on, then it saves you opening up another terminal.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From anthk@VERT to Gamgee on Wed Sep 22 13:38:05 2021
    On 2021-04-30, Gamgee <gamgee@PALANT> wrote:

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Thanks.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52


    Tmux user here, because of OpenBSD base and well, I set
    a clonic OpenBSD base under Void Linux, with very close
    config and constraints. As a plug, I have framebuffer
    support for SDL(2), mplayer, mpv, fbi, fbpdf2 and fbdjvu.
    For comic books, I use fbi+a script to uncompress the files,
    and for IM, bitlbee+kirc work well, among links,s-nail and
    getmail.
    I've been weeks without X, and I won't miss it. Groff+Mom
    typesets math perfectly, gnuplot is dumb easy and sc-im
    and catdoc and/or antiword will do the same on docx/rtf/
    xls files.
    Current games require 16GB of RAM, a 20x more powerful GPU
    and a 10x better CPU, so that's a no-no for me.
    Slashem, interactive fiction and mednafen could keep me busy
    for years.

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to anthk on Thu Sep 23 17:47:00 2021
    anthk wrote to Gamgee <=-

    @MSGID: <614B942D.11157.dove-lnx@vert.synchro.net>
    @REPLY: <608B54B9.392.dove-unix@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    On 2021-04-30, Gamgee <gamgee@PALANT> wrote:

    For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

    Thanks.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52


    Tmux user here, because of OpenBSD base and well, I set
    a clonic OpenBSD base under Void Linux, with very close
    config and constraints. As a plug, I have framebuffer
    support for SDL(2), mplayer, mpv, fbi, fbpdf2 and fbdjvu.
    For comic books, I use fbi+a script to uncompress the files,
    and for IM, bitlbee+kirc work well, among links,s-nail and
    getmail.
    I've been weeks without X, and I won't miss it. Groff+Mom
    typesets math perfectly, gnuplot is dumb easy and sc-im
    and catdoc and/or antiword will do the same on docx/rtf/
    xls files.
    Current games require 16GB of RAM, a 20x more powerful GPU
    and a 10x better CPU, so that's a no-no for me.
    Slashem, interactive fiction and mednafen could keep me busy
    for years.

    ---

    Using tmux at the moment, but I'm pretty ambivalent about whether I use screen or tmux. I'm using tmux because the keybindings on how to split a screen are fresh in my head, I don't remember them for screen. I have a menu set to SSH into particular servers, and those shortcuts set up a terminal with screen. Screen has ZMODEM support which I do use.

    However I've found that systemd now terminates all your processes when you log out, including detached screen and tmux sessions!

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Boraxman on Thu Sep 23 09:38:13 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Boraxman to anthk on Thu Sep 23 2021 05:47 pm

    screen are fresh in my head, I don't remember them for screen. I have a menu set to SSH into particular servers, and those shortcuts set up a terminal with screen. Screen has ZMODEM support which I do use.

    how do you even use zmodem with screen?
    do you just run it on auto in the screen session?
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Fri Sep 24 15:31:00 2021
    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <614C9155.779.dove-nix@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <614C312F.2856.dove-nix@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Boraxman to anthk on Thu Sep 23 2021 05:47 pm

    screen are fresh in my head, I don't remember them for screen. I have a menu set to SSH into particular servers, and those shortcuts set up a terminal with screen. Screen has ZMODEM support which I do use.

    You enable zmodem with the "zmodem catch" config option. This will detect and zmodem escape sequences. When it detects one, screen will then prompt you to run the corresponding sz/rz command at your end.

    So how it works is this. You start screen, then ssh/telnet to the remote server. On the remote server you initiate either rz or sz depending on whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a prompt with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end. When you accept that command, the transfer proceeds.

    Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to send an adhoc file back or forth.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Boraxman on Fri Sep 24 09:25:28 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Fri Sep 24 2021 03:31 pm

    whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a prompt with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end. When you accept that command, the transfer proceeds.

    Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to send an adhoc file back or forth.

    oh, i made a script that i use with winscp.com for sending files to my server. ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Sat Sep 25 18:10:00 2021
    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <614DDFD8.781.dove-nix@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <614D645B.2858.dove-nix@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Fri Sep 24 2021 03:31 pm

    whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a prompt with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end. When you accept that command, the transfer proceeds.

    Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to send an adhoc file back or forth.

    oh, i made a script that i use with winscp.com for sending files to my server. ---

    I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the shell.

    For Windows users, you can use LePutty, which is Putty with zmodem support. Wouldn't have thought it would still be useful, but it is.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Boraxman on Sat Sep 25 09:55:00 2021
    Boraxman wrote to MRO <=-

    whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a prompt with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end. When you accept that command, the transfer proceeds.

    Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to send an adhoc file back or forth.

    oh, i made a script that i use with winscp.com for sending files to my server.

    I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another
    shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the
    shell.

    Did not know about this ability within screen. Very cool. Just tried
    it and it works perfectly.

    Thanks for bringing this up.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Gamgee on Sat Sep 25 12:38:03 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Gamgee to Boraxman on Sat Sep 25 2021 09:55 am

    whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a
    prompt with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end.
    When you accept that command, the transfer proceeds.

    Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to
    send an adhoc file back or forth.

    oh, i made a script that i use with winscp.com for sending files to
    my server.

    I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another
    shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the
    shell.

    Did not know about this ability within screen. Very cool. Just tried
    it and it works perfectly.

    I use MobaXTerm in windows which has a small built-in scp gui where you can click/drag files to transfer them. It's not free, but it's well worth it, especially when you have to deal with and organize over a thousand different servers.

    DaiTengu

    ... She drowned at the end of her life.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to DaiTengu on Sat Sep 25 20:40:00 2021
    DaiTengu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another
    shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the
    shell.

    Did not know about this ability within screen. Very cool. Just tried
    it and it works perfectly.

    I use MobaXTerm in windows which has a small built-in scp gui
    where you can click/drag files to transfer them. It's not free,
    but it's well worth it, especially when you have to deal with and
    organize over a thousand different servers.

    Thankfully, Windows is not something I have to deal with.



    ... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to DaiTengu on Sun Sep 26 10:53:00 2021
    DaiTengu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I use MobaXTerm in windows which has a small built-in scp gui where
    you can click/drag files to transfer them. It's not free, but it's
    well worth it, especially when you have to deal with and organize over
    a thousand different servers.

    I'll have to take another look at MobaXTerm. We're using a combination of Putty, WinSCP and an autologin plugin for Keepass that's nice.

    Keys most places to autologin, and Keepass to automate SSH/RDP elsewhere.

    I wish there was an easy way to package Putty destinations and share them,
    we have 10 developers and it'd be nice to package all of the usual hosts
    when I image systems for them.


    ... Magnify the most difficult details
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Brian Rogers@VERT/CARNAGE to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Sep 27 10:34:00 2021
    Hello poindexter;

    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to DaiTengu <=-

    It's not free

    I've used it in the past and my copies were free. They requested you purchased it of course but it wasn't crippled.

    I'll have to take another look at MobaXTerm. We're using a combination
    of Putty, WinSCP and an autologin plugin for Keepass that's nice.

    Of course, you can write your own shell script I'm sure. Perhaps rsync may be of assistance?


    ... Quarks DO IT, but they only get 1/3 of a charge out of it
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet SBBS - Carnage! sudo -s; rm -rf / ;-)
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Gamgee on Wed Sep 29 10:24:23 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: Gamgee to DaiTengu on Sat Sep 25 2021 08:40 pm

    I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another
    shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the
    shell.

    Did not know about this ability within screen. Very cool. Just
    tried it and it works perfectly.

    I use MobaXTerm in windows which has a small built-in scp gui
    where you can click/drag files to transfer them. It's not free,
    but it's well worth it, especially when you have to deal with and
    organize over a thousand different servers.

    Thankfully, Windows is not something I have to deal with.


    I use Windows on my primary computer, as I play video games, and a lot of the ham radio stuff I have also requires windows (getting any of that stuff to run reliably under WINE is a nightmare I don't want to deal with).

    The other 6 computers sitting around me are all running some flavor of Linux, and one runs BSD.

    DaiTengu

    ... A bachelor never makes the same mistake once.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Sep 29 10:34:56 2021
    Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to DaiTengu on Sun Sep 26 2021 10:53 am

    I wish there was an easy way to package Putty destinations and share them, we have 10 developers and it'd be nice to package all of the usual hosts when I image systems for them.

    It should be pretty easy to create a web page with links to all the servers people need to access. a browser can auto-launch PuTTY. They'd just need to make sure their key was loaded.

    DaiTengu

    ... But soft, what light through yonder tagline breaks?

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to DaiTengu on Thu Sep 30 07:14:00 2021
    DaiTengu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It should be pretty easy to create a web page with links to all the servers people need to access. a browser can auto-launch PuTTY. They'd just need to make sure their key was loaded.

    I've been playing with Dashy on my home lab; I've got a destination web page at work on our outward-facing reverse proxy that could easily be a web page inside the firewall, accessible via VPN. That might be a nice project.


    ... Observe the procedures of a general alert.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Jazzy J@VERT/JAYSCAFE to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Dec 11 09:58:00 2021
    Quoting poindexter FORTRAN to DaiTengu <=-

    I wish there was an easy way to package Putty destinations and share
    them, we have 10 developers and it'd be nice to package all of the
    usual hosts when I image systems for them.

    It's been a while, but you may be able to copy the settings from a
    subdirectory of %localappdata% or %programdata%, then propagate them to
    the other systems in whatever your favorite method is.

    Jazzy J



    * AmyBW v2.16 *
    ... Afraid of speed? Use Windows!

    ---
    Synchronet BayouBBS.Net, Ports 23, 6401 and 6402