• HD vs 4K

    From The Millionaire@VERT to All on Thu Mar 18 20:42:37 2021
    Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?

    $ The Millionaire $

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to The Millionaire on Thu Mar 18 21:13:52 2021
    Re: HD vs 4K
    By: The Millionaire to All on Thu Mar 18 2021 08:42 pm

    Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?

    Are you referring to any specific software and machine being used? That depends widely on both factors, as well as the method of upscaling it (such as using AI or a more simple method). More information may be helpful in answering your question.

    I've used Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI, which can use either a CPU or a graphics card. A dedicated graphics card is much faster, though it still takes quite a while. From what I've seen, the size of the source image seems to be one of the biggest factors in the upscale time. And it seems just the process of using AI to recognize the image and fill in details takes time. I don't know enough about it to give more information.

    Nightfox

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  • From The Millionaire@VERT to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 04:31:00 2021
    Re: HD vs 4K
    By: The Millionaire to All on Thu Mar 18 2021 08:42 pm

    Are you referring to any specific software and machine being used? That depends widely on both factors, as well as the method of upscaling it (such as using AI or a more simple method). More information may be helpful in answering your question.

    I've used Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI, which can use either a CPU or a graphics card. A dedicated graphics card is much faster, though it still takes quite a while. From what I've seen, the size of the source image seems to be one of the biggest factors in the upscale time. And it seems just the process of using AI to recognize the image and fill in details takes time. I don't know enough about it to give more information.

    Nightfox

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    I'm talking about movies in general here.

    $ The Millionaire $

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to The Millionaire on Fri Mar 19 07:41:00 2021
    The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

    Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?

    Because an iPad has very little computing power.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 08:00:39 2021
    Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Nightfox to The Millionaire on Thu Mar 18 2021 09:13 pm

    Are you referring to any specific software and machine being used? That depends widely on both factors, as well as the method of upscaling it (such using AI or a more simple method). More information may be helpful in answering your question.


    I venture to say he means movies in general. "Why are they taking so long to release my favourite movie in 4k?"

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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to The Millionaire on Fri Mar 19 09:52:00 2021
    I'm talking about movies in general here.

    probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of the film, scan with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using a modern scanner can get that much
    more data.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to fusion on Fri Mar 19 09:13:21 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: fusion to The Millionaire on Fri Mar 19 2021 09:52 am

    I'm talking about movies in general here.

    probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of the film, sc with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using a modern scanner can get that much more data.

    You know, I once heard that if you had well preserved master films in 25mm, those still beat modern digital recordings (even films from the 1920s) and benefit when upgraded from mpeg 4 to an HD capable format.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to The Millionaire on Fri Mar 19 08:09:35 2021
    Re: HD vs 4K
    By: The Millionaire to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 2021 04:31 am

    I'm talking about movies in general here.

    Ah. Would have been good to clarify that in your question.

    It seems to me the movie market has been changing as far as the way people consume movies. Generally, people aren't buying movies to own like they used to. People often stream movies online these days rather than own or rent physical media. So these days, I suppose they'd remaster a movie in 4K if they think they could make money from it via streaming.

    Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Fri Mar 19 08:10:19 2021
    Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 2021 08:00 am

    I venture to say he means movies in general. "Why are they taking so long to release my favourite movie in 4k?"

    I've been doing some video upscaling lately, so I guess that's why I interpreted his question that way.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to fusion on Fri Mar 19 08:13:53 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: fusion to The Millionaire on Fri Mar 19 2021 09:52 am

    probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of the film, scan with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using a modern scanner can get that much more data.

    They've done that with many movies for the transitions from VHS to DVD, then to 1080p blu-ray, etc.. It does seem like it has taken longer to remaster some movies to 4K though.

    I'm still waiting for a high-def release of The Abyss. I don't think that has officially even been released on 1080p yet (though I'm not sure).

    Nightfox

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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 18:52:00 2021
    On 19 Mar 2021, Nightfox said the following...

    Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.

    i've already had plenty of occasions where this or that movie that i randomly think of is not on any of the streaming sites. or is behind a premium hbo/starz/etc paywall. or have made it half way through a show only to find
    out i only have a month to finish because it's going offline.

    it seems to be the total opposite of the premium music services where your initial buy in gets you pretty much every album ever made regardless of if
    it's itunes, amazon, spotify or whoever

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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 18:56:00 2021
    I'm still waiting for a high-def release of The Abyss. I don't think
    that has officially even been released on 1080p yet (though I'm not

    according to the wiki that one sounds like a big mess. someone's working on
    it at least.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to fusion on Sat Mar 20 11:02:54 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: fusion to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 2021 06:52 pm

    Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.

    i've already had plenty of occasions where this or that movie that i randomly think of is not on any of the streaming sites. or is behind a premium hbo/starz/etc paywall. or have made it half way through a show only to find out i only have a month to finish because it's going offline.

    That's part of the problem. Also (not as often), sometimes streaming services can be unavailable due to high traffic or other problems, or sometimes your internet service might go down.

    In a way, relying on streaming services for everything seems like relying on over-the-air broadcasts. You have to wait for something to become available, and then as you said, it can be taken away later. I always thought that's one of the reasons they started producing movies & TV shows that people could buy and own. Now, it seems many people are content with relying on streaming services for the things they want to watch.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Sat Mar 20 11:11:30 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Arelor to fusion on Fri Mar 19 2021 09:13 am

    You know, I once heard that if you had well preserved master films in 25mm, those still beat modern digital recordings (even films from the 1920s) and benefit when upgraded from mpeg 4 to an HD capable format.

    I think one of the advantages of analog film is that it doesn't really have a set video resolution like digital displays do. You can always re-scan the film in a higher resolution - though I think after a certain point it will start to look bad. On the other hand, if you record a movie in a digital format, it's at a specific fixed resolution, and upscaling will be more tricky.

    Some people seem to think old analog film means poor quality and low resolution, but that's not true.

    Nightfox

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Sat Mar 20 14:55:59 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Nightfox to fusion on Sat Mar 20 2021 11:02 am

    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: fusion to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 2021 06:52 pm

    Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.

    i've already had plenty of occasions where this or that movie that i randomly think of is n
    on any of the streaming sites. or is behind a premium hbo/starz/etc paywall. or have made i
    half way through a show only to find out i only have a month to finish because it's going
    offline.

    That's part of the problem. Also (not as often), sometimes streaming services can be unavailabl
    due to high traffic or other problems, or sometimes your internet service might go down.

    In a way, relying on streaming services for everything seems like relying on over-the-air
    broadcasts. You have to wait for something to become available, and then as you said, it can be
    taken away later. I always thought that's one of the reasons they started producing movies & TV
    shows that people could buy and own. Now, it seems many people are content with relying on
    streaming services for the things they want to watch.

    Nightfox


    Streaming services have made content over-abundant. and therefore less valuable.

    30 years ago it made sense to own _that_ special movie you wanted in VHS, because there weren't so
    many TV channels providing quality films and shows in an abundant way. Nowadays, if _that_ film is
    not available, you are bound to find three hundred to substitute it at no cost (or close). There is
    no specific reason to own your own copy of things because their value has gone under, unless you
    are a hardcore like me and want to reduce your dependence on content providers.

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  • From Linuxdan@VERT/DMINE to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 19:49:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to The Millionaire <=-

    Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.

    I like to own them so that I can watch them when I want - without
    worrying about them being romoved from the streaming service and
    put in some imaginary "vault" or having them removed entirely
    because some group is offended by the content of a movie that was
    released in a different time, to a different generation. Yeah, I just
    want to make sure I can always watch my movies when I want. :-)


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Sun Mar 21 10:54:22 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Sat Mar 20 2021 02:55 pm

    30 years ago it made sense to own _that_ special movie you wanted in VHS, because there weren't so many TV channels providing quality films and shows in an abundant way. Nowadays, if _that_ film is not available, you are bound to find three hundred to substitute it at no cost (or close).

    If you want to watch a particular movie, I don't think anything else can substitute for it. You could choose another movie to watch, but it won't be the one you originally wanted to watch..

    There is no specific reason to own your own copy of things because their value has gone under, unless you are a hardcore like me and want to reduce your dependence on content providers.

    I also don't want to fully depend on content providers.

    Nightfox

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Sun Mar 21 14:23:21 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Sun Mar 21 2021 10:54 am

    30 years ago it made sense to own _that_ special movie you wanted in VH because there weren't so many TV channels providing quality films and shows in an abundant way. Nowadays, if _that_ film is not available, yo are bound to find three hundred to substitute it at no cost (or close).

    If you want to watch a particular movie, I don't think anything else can substitute for it. You could choose another movie to watch, but it won't be the one you originally wanted to watch..


    For a certain set of people, like you and me, if they want something specific, they want _that_ specific thing to watch. However, I have observed that people with access to vast ammounts of films just don't give a damn. They will gather with friends, fire up $service, and if the film they want to watch is not there, they will watch something else without breaking a sweat in the least.

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to The Millionaire on Mon Mar 22 04:28:47 2021
    On 3/18/2021 8:42 PM, The Millionaire wrote:
    Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?

    Money... It's business, and someone needs to pony up the money to rescan
    the original film, recomposite any special effects, color correction,
    etc. It literally costs $10m+ to create a 4K version of many older
    films. If the sales and distribution predictions don't support this, it
    won't happen.

    Of course AI upscale is actually getting pretty good, and sometimes that
    can be enough without necessarily going through some painstaking
    processes, or it can be done less expensively. The HBO Max release of
    Babylon 5 is a great example of this.
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Mon Mar 22 04:35:42 2021
    On 3/18/2021 9:13 PM, Nightfox wrote:

    I've used Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI, which can use either a CPU or
    a graphics card. A dedicated graphics card is much faster, though
    it still takes quite a while. From what I've seen, the size of the
    source image seems to be one of the biggest factors in the upscale
    time. And it seems just the process of using AI to recognize the
    image and fill in details takes time. I don't know enough about it
    to give more information.

    I got a beta version after they added newer Radeon support, but
    ironically the main thing I wanted to upscale (Babylon 5) was already
    done by HBO/Warner.

    Some of the tests I've seen are really good, but to do a proper
    production, every 2-4s clip would need to be cut, processed with
    multiple options, the best one chosen manually and re-stitched for the
    final output for commercial redistribution. Other than some of the Star
    Wars despecialized edition type projects, I don't know of any
    independent efforts nearly to that scale. Would be cool to see more
    though. I don't think I could handle that kind of work though... seeing
    the same clip 5-10 times and picking the best one, over and over and
    over again.

    I think TM was probably just referring to getting a 4K release of
    existing HD material. Of course if an HD remaster has already been
    done, then there's not much to gain from a 4K remaster since most
    existing upscaling players will do a decent job from 1080p and from a
    distance many wouldn't notice much difference.

    You lose more detail than that when streaming typically anyhow.
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Arelor on Mon Mar 22 04:53:59 2021
    On 3/19/2021 7:13 AM, Arelor wrote:
    I'm talking about movies in general here.

    probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of
    the film, scan with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix
    color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using
    a modern scanner can get that much more data.

    You know, I once heard that if you had well preserved master films
    in 25mm, those still beat modern digital recordings (even films
    from the 1920s) and benefit when upgraded from mpeg 4 to an HD
    capable format.

    mp4 is a container format, often h.264 aka AVC for 1080p or lower for
    video. 4K is still mp4 as the container format but h.265 aka HEVC for
    the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).

    As to being able to scan and correct film.. yeah, this is often the case
    that quality/preserved film can work better than lower-quality digital
    sources or cheaper film.

    That said, you still have to individually scan and cut each segment of a
    scene (usually 2-4 seconds, but some films do have longer shots), then
    color correction, and hand touch ups. The remaster for Wizard of OZ is probably the best example of this. Even then, this effort often costs millions to do, and for many films the effort won't be taken. It's
    often less likely if there was a quality HD (1080p) remaster already
    done. If it's a movie with special effects, then it's even more work
    after the prior stuff. Hopefully the original footage (without special effects) is available, and then the effects need to be worked.

    Of course then there's the work on the audio, hopefully a clean master/original voice-work without any background music or effects is available, usually not the case for older works. Otherwise, there's
    filters that can be used to try to filter the background, music, etc to
    try to get something resembling clean voice audio, then the work of (re)recording any music and effects and then put it all together again.

    My understanding is that many typical remasters can cost upwards or $10m
    USD depemding on the effort to do so. If there isn't a pent up demand
    for a specific work, the studios won't spend the money to do it.
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Mon Mar 22 04:55:14 2021
    On 3/19/2021 8:10 AM, Nightfox wrote:
    I venture to say he means movies in general. "Why are they taking
    so long to release my favourite movie in 4k?"

    I've been doing some video upscaling lately, so I guess that's why
    I interpreted his question that way.

    Same here, but then I considered who was asking.
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Mon Mar 22 05:01:22 2021
    On 3/19/2021 8:13 AM, Nightfox wrote:
    probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of
    the film, scan with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix
    color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using
    a modern scanner can get that much more data.

    They've done that with many movies for the transitions from VHS to
    DVD, then to 1080p blu-ray, etc.. It does seem like it has taken
    longer to remaster some movies to 4K though.

    I'm still waiting for a high-def release of The Abyss. I don't
    think that has officially even been released on 1080p yet (though
    I'm not sure).

    VHS and DVD they really didn't do much work on those at all, mostly scan/dupe... going lower quality than source material in most cases.

    Getting to 1080p was much more effort on the conversion most of the
    time, and from there to 4K often isn't worth the expense for works that
    have already been done to that level. Some 1080p remaster work had
    already made the effort for very high quality work that was just able to
    be re-released at higher (4K) quality.

    I do think with uptake of streaming, we may see more quality remaster of
    some older material depending on the demand, which streaming services
    have more insight into. No two things are alike and often will depend
    on the source material, how much raw footage for audio and video still
    exist, etc.

    Sometimes it comes down to licensing, especially music, "The Wonder
    Years" was particularly hard to even get licensing as there was audio
    source without the music mixed in, and some of the licensing was
    complicated to say the least. "Daria" an example of where some of the
    original music was changed for licensing.
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to fusion on Mon Mar 22 05:09:57 2021
    On 3/19/2021 11:52 AM, fusion wrote:
    On 19 Mar 2021, Nightfox said the following...

    Ni> Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.

    i've already had plenty of occasions where this or that movie that i randomly think of is not on any of the streaming sites. or is behind
    a premium hbo/starz/etc paywall. or have made it half way through a
    show only to find out i only have a month to finish because it's going offline.

    it seems to be the total opposite of the premium music services where
    your initial buy in gets you pretty much every album ever made
    regardless of if it's itunes, amazon, spotify or whoever

    I think it will shake out in a couple years... For a while it seemed
    like Netflix would rule the roost, then a few studios got together with
    Hulu for a better sharing/ownership model, then they figured they'd
    rather have $5/month (+ about $2 for overhead) for themselves than try
    to share $10-20/month. So we get what we have now with Netflix, Hulu,
    Disney, HBO/Warner, CBS/Paramount, NBC/Peacock, Starz etc. each doing
    their own thing. In the end, I don't see most households holding more
    than 2-3 services at any given time.

    In the end, I think that Disney is the most entrenched just from the
    catalog of "Family" content. I think some of the smaller options do
    offer multiple channels, you can get Starz on Amazon or Hulu for
    instance. There will probably, eventually be some better aggregation arrangements so larger surface options (amazon, apple tv, etc) can
    present content in a consistent interface. Netflix has seen the writing
    on the wall for years and why they've put so much into "original"
    content models.

    For the other services, they will offer steeper discounts or force year
    at a time subscription models for lock in as people start/stop the
    various services more often for specific content.

    At least that's what I predict will happen in the next couple years.
    --
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Mon Mar 22 05:14:47 2021
    On 3/20/2021 11:02 AM, Nightfox wrote:

    I always thought that's one of the reasons they started producing
    movies & TV shows that people could buy and own. Now, it seems
    many people are content with relying on streaming services for the
    things they want to watch.

    They started offering "ownership" in a time where on-demand would have
    been a pipe dream and when they realized the pricing models for rental services wasn't as good as direct sales. This carried into DVD, and in
    the mid 00's as broadband expanded, streaming became more of an option.
    Some of the initial services sucked, but it got better in time.

    Of course, I have a relatively new 6-bay NAS and an older 4-bay NAS that
    has a bunch of content on it that I can watch whenever... I still pay
    for a few streaming services (mostly out of guilt), but prefer to rip my
    own content from disk, or otherwise download. It would probably be less expensive to just stream all the things, but in the end, I like the
    control and life without commercial interruptions.
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Linuxdan on Mon Mar 22 05:17:04 2021
    On 3/19/2021 4:49 PM, Linuxdan wrote:
    Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.

    I like to own them so that I can watch them when I want - without
    worrying about them being romoved from the streaming service and
    put in some imaginary "vault" or having them removed entirely
    because some group is offended by the content of a movie that was
    released in a different time, to a different generation. Yeah, I just
    want to make sure I can always watch my movies when I want. :-)\

    Or, like more recent examples retroactively declared "insensitive" and censored/removed from online availability altogether. Not that I really
    want to watch some of the censored films, but can see why some might
    want to.
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Arelor on Mon Mar 22 05:18:37 2021
    On 3/21/2021 12:23 PM, Arelor wrote:
    if the film they want to watch is not there, they will watch
    something else without breaking a sweat in the least.

    LOL, that's when I put it in a note on my phone and download it later,
    or go upstairs for 2-3m and do it right then.
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to The Millionaire on Mon Mar 22 10:29:41 2021
    Re: HD vs 4K
    By: The Millionaire to All on Thu Mar 18 2021 08:42 pm

    Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?

    It depends upon how the movie was filmed. There are some movies, shot in the early '00s that were filmed in HD, so converting them to 4k is a chore and a half. You can only upscale digital effects so far before they start to look awful. a conversion from HD (1080p) to 4K (4x as many lines and pixels) often requires a team to go over the entire thing, frame by frame, to clean things up.

    (This is the issue that they have with converting Star Trek: Deep Space 9 to HD, All the exterior/special effects shots in later seasons were done with primitive CGI and they'd basically need to be recreated completely, whereas everything with The Next Generation was on film and done with pratical effects/models)


    Movies shot on actual film can either be fairly simple to convert to 4k (with the proper equipment) or a nightmare, depending upon the film format or the condition of the film.

    DaiTengu

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Mon Mar 22 10:43:00 2021
    30 years ago it made sense to own _that_ special movie you wanted in VHS, >Ar> because there weren't so many TV channels providing quality films and
    shows in an abundant way. Nowadays, if _that_ film is not available, you >Ar> are bound to find three hundred to substitute it at no cost (or close).

    If you want to watch a particular movie, I don't think anything else can subst
    tute for it. You could choose another movie to watch, but it won't be the one >ou originally wanted to watch..

    Also, if it is a movie that has scenes that are likely to be cut, or not to
    be seen at all ("cancel culture"), or that was written/directed by someone
    who likes to change and re-release them ever so many years, you are better
    off owning those.

    I also don't want to fully depend on content providers.

    Ditto,


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Mon Mar 22 12:11:11 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Mon Mar 22 2021 04:35 am

    I've used Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI, which can use either a CPU or

    I got a beta version after they added newer Radeon support, but ironically the main thing I wanted to upscale (Babylon 5) was already done by HBO/Warner.

    Some of the tests I've seen are really good, but to do a proper production, every 2-4s clip would need to be cut, processed with
    multiple options, the best one chosen manually and re-stitched for the final output for commercial redistribution. Other than some of the Star Wars despecialized edition type projects, I don't know of any
    independent efforts nearly to that scale. Would be cool to see more though. I don't think I could handle that kind of work though... seeing the same clip 5-10 times and picking the best one, over and over and
    over again.

    Yeah, it would be a lot of work. I've upscaled some content, with some looking better than others. I still think it doesn't look as good as it could be. Upscaling software looks promising, but I think it still has a ways to go.

    I think TM was probably just referring to getting a 4K release of existing HD material.

    Yeah, I wasn't sure based on his question.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Tracker1 on Mon Mar 22 14:29:45 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Tracker1 to Linuxdan on Mon Mar 22 2021 05:17 am

    Or, like more recent examples retroactively declared "insensitive" and censored/removed from online availability altogether. Not that I really want to watch some of the censored films, but can see why some might
    want to.

    For me, this is the big reason why I want my media store locally.

    With a DRM-loaded pseudorental (known as streaming) you only get to access the content as long as the provider has a license to lend it to you, or as long as it decides.

    I have been told some steam games have lost their soundtracks because of license reasons. The developpers bought a license for selling the soundtracks for X years, and once the license expired, they removed the music from your game.

    This does not happen with MS-DOS games.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Tracker1 on Mon Mar 22 16:09:25 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Mon Mar 22 2021 05:14 am

    for a few streaming services (mostly out of guilt), but prefer to rip my own content from disk, or otherwise download. It would probably be less expensive to just stream all the things, but in the end, I like the control and life without commercial interruptions.

    I'll watch movies I've seen 10 times just to avoid commericial interuptions. I only watch the local news and then it's all netflix for me. I never saw any value in making copies of movies. The movies that are worth making copies of always show up one way or another onlin or on air these days. Then there's the torrents too. ;-)

    |03 HusTler

    ... What is moral is what you feel good after.

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Tracker1 on Mon Mar 22 21:11:00 2021
    the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).

    ugh no way. it doesn't turn blurry, it ends up with those swirly patterns.
    it's significantly more distracting imo.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 23 07:32:00 2021
    Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-

    mp4 is a container format, often h.264 aka AVC for 1080p or lower for video. 4K is still mp4 as the container format but h.265 aka HEVC for
    the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).

    I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what I try to play on it.


    ... Genesis turns to its source, reduction occurs stepwise though the essence --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 23 07:35:00 2021
    Tracker1 wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Sometimes it comes down to licensing, especially music, "The Wonder
    Years" was particularly hard to even get licensing as there was audio source without the music mixed in, and some of the licensing was complicated to say the least. "Daria" an example of where some of the original music was changed for licensing.

    That was the story behind the 70's TV show "WKRP in Cincinnati". It had some amazing music from the time, albeit playing in the background and not an integral part of the show. The clearances and the cost for the music was prohibitive, apparently since it had to be negotiated/cleared song by song.

    Except for one episode that had Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" as a tie-in to
    the plot. They couldn't get the rights to the song and re-dubbed it into the show. Now it sounds more like "Hold me closer, Tony Danza".




    ... Genesis turns to its source, reduction occurs stepwise though the essence --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 23 07:39:00 2021
    Tracker1 wrote to Linuxdan <=-

    Or, like more recent examples retroactively declared "insensitive" and censored/removed from online availability altogether. Not that I
    really want to watch some of the censored films, but can see why some might want to.

    Historically themed films concern me. One of my favorite films is "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence", with David Bowie, Ryuichi Sakamoto and Tom Conti. Racism, homophobia, closeted homosexuality and abject cruelty set in a prisoner-of-war camp, with a great cast and a wonderful soundtrack. :)

    Someone not looking with historical perspective at the movie might be triggered.


    ... Genesis turns to its source, reduction occurs stepwise though the essence --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 23 08:35:00 2021
    Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-

    LOL, that's when I put it in a note on my phone and download it later,
    or go upstairs for 2-3m and do it right then.

    Yeah. I've sat down to a movie night, realized the movie we wanted to see
    was $19.99 to rent, then asked my wife to go make some popcorn, and we'll watch the movie in 10-20 minutes. :)


    ... ZIMA TASTES BETTER WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Tue Mar 23 08:37:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    of license reasons. The developpers bought a license for selling the soundtracks for X years, and once the license expired, they removed the music from your game.

    This does not happen with MS-DOS games.

    Yeah, good luck to them trying to remove the NIN soundtrack off of my Quake
    1 CD. Makes for great work music. :)


    ... ZIMA TASTES BETTER WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Mar 23 20:28:06 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 23 2021 07:32 am

    I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what I try to play on it.

    Is it the TV itself, or is it the app you use that doesn't support h.265?

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Wed Mar 24 02:28:16 2021
    On 3/22/2021 12:11 PM, Nightfox wrote:

    Yeah, it would be a lot of work. I've upscaled some content,
    with some looking better than others. I still think it doesn't
    look as good as > it could be. Upscaling software looks
    promising, but I think it still has a ways to go.

    Yeah, like I said, that's why each clip would need to be tried with a
    couple different training models as some work better/worse than others
    and each clip literally favoring some over others to differing degrees.

    Also, in general, 1080p is already pretty good for most things, going
    from say film or DVD to 4k for composition/eding, back down to 1080p is
    often best, since some of the artifacting going back down from 1080p
    even if then upscaled in playback is better.. it's wild.

    I'm pretty hopeful to see where it winds up in the next 5-10 years
    though. Could see a massive boom in legacy content opening up for
    online distribution. Assuming cancel culture doesn't block too much of it.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Arelor on Wed Mar 24 02:31:38 2021
    On 3/22/2021 12:29 PM, Arelor wrote:
    Or, like more recent examples retroactively declared "insensitive"
    and censored/removed from online availability altogether. Not that
    I really want to watch some of the censored films, but can see why
    ?? some might want to.

    For me, this is the big reason why I want my media store locally.

    With a DRM-loaded pseudorental (known as streaming) you only get to
    access the content as long as the provider has a license to lend it
    to you, or as long as it decides.

    I have been told some steam games have lost their soundtracks
    because of license reasons. The developpers bought a license for
    selling the soundtracks for X years, and once the license expired,
    they removed the music from your game.

    This does not happen with MS-DOS games.

    Yeah, music licensing is particularly bad... The Wonder Years was a
    prime example of how bad it gets, since it was mixed into the master,
    they were largely blocked from online and disc based media for years.
    Another is the music being completely replaced in other shows and movies because of licensing.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to HusTler on Wed Mar 24 02:34:01 2021
    On 3/22/2021 1:09 PM, HusTler wrote:
    for a few streaming services (mostly out of guilt), but prefer to
    rip my own content from disk, or otherwise download. It would
    probably be less expensive to just stream all the things, but in
    the end, I like the control and life without commercial
    interruptions.

    I'll watch movies I've seen 10 times just to avoid commericial
    interuptions. I only watch the local news and then it's all netflix
    for me. I never saw any value in making copies of movies. The movies
    that are worth making copies of always show up one way or another
    onlin or on air these days. Then there's the torrents too. ;-)

    Most of what I'm up for ripping myself is stuff that I cannot get in
    higher definition anyway, or otherwise is unavailable in torrents. I do
    buy some things because I want to support certain actions, and money
    talks, even if mine is a drop in the bucket.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to fusion on Wed Mar 24 02:40:03 2021
    On 3/22/2021 2:11 PM, fusion wrote:
    the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when
    over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).

    ugh no way. it doesn't turn blurry, it ends up with those swirly
    patterns. it's significantly more distracting imo.

    I can't stand the choppy blocks in the background... it's one of the
    main reasons I didn't do DirectTV when it came out, the compression
    artifacts were just horrible imo. Though DVD had a fair amount as well,
    it was generally better than broadcast TV.

    I don't over-compress my video content, just noting that when artifacts happen, I prefer h265 to h264's degredation.

    It gets better at the cost of storage. Unfortunately, with everyone
    just streaming now, and most storage going to data centers, large hard
    drive prices really aren't coming down much any more, which is
    unfortunate. I do hope the quality of hardware encoding gets
    better/faster in the next generation or two... Radeon and NVidia cards
    are so much faster, but the quality/size worse than CPU, I still choose
    CPU encodes, just takes forever... I'll sometimes have days worth of
    encodes queued up that would be a couple hours with hardware.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 24 02:42:00 2021
    On 3/23/2021 7:32 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
    mp4 is a container format, often h.264 aka AVC for 1080p or lower for
    video. 4K is still mp4 as the container format but h.265 aka HEVC for
    the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when
    over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).

    I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't
    support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what I
    try to play on it.

    Weird.. if you have a desktop or server that's always on, may be worth
    setting up a plex server that can transcode to h264 for you... this way
    you can still store in the smaller (size wise) format.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 24 02:43:35 2021
    On 3/23/2021 7:35 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
    Sometimes it comes down to licensing, especially music, "The Wonder
    Years" was particularly hard to even get licensing as there was audio
    source without the music mixed in, and some of the licensing was
    complicated to say the least. "Daria" an example of where some of the
    original music was changed for licensing.

    That was the story behind the 70's TV show "WKRP in Cincinnati". It had some amazing music from the time, albeit playing in the background and not an integral part of the show. The clearances and the cost for the music was prohibitive, apparently since it had to be negotiated/cleared song by song.

    Except for one episode that had Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" as a tie-in to
    the plot. They couldn't get the rights to the song and re-dubbed it into the show. Now it sounds more like "Hold me closer, Tony Danza".

    That's another one... didn't really get into that show when I was
    younger, should go back and watch it.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 24 02:47:19 2021
    On 3/23/2021 8:35 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
    LOL, that's when I put it in a note on my phone and download it
    later, or go upstairs for 2-3m and do it right then.

    Yeah. I've sat down to a movie night, realized the movie we wanted
    to see was $19.99 to rent, then asked my wife to go make some
    popcorn, and we'll watch the movie in 10-20 minutes. :)

    I go through similar about once a month... sometimes I'll just pay the
    $4-7 rental price to not deal with the hassle, but at $15+ for a 20yo
    movie, I'd rather just download it.

    I'm pretty sure Amazon etc has most of their pricing models dialed in
    though.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Wed Mar 24 02:51:03 2021
    On 3/23/2021 8:28 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't
    support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what
    I try to play on it.

    Is it the TV itself, or is it the app you use that doesn't support h.265?

    Likely a lack of hardware decoding on chip... when 4k streaming devices
    first came out, h.265 was still really new and a lot of chips on those
    devices didn't have hardware decoders (and they're all too slow for
    software decoding). For those things, if you have a desktop/server
    online, best to setup a plex server.

    Finally set one up on my new synology nas the week before I was in the hospital, glad I did. It also happens to let all the videos I have
    playback without issue on the firetv sticks in parts of the house that
    don't handle it well either.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 09:07:00 2021
    Yeah, music licensing is particularly bad... The Wonder Years was a
    prime example of how bad it gets, since it was mixed into the master, they were largely blocked from online and disc based media for years.

    nothing is worse then this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xad-StH-7BY

    the absolute pinnacle of garbage replacement songs

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 09:18:00 2021
    better/faster in the next generation or two... Radeon and NVidia cards are so much faster, but the quality/size worse than CPU, I still choose CPU encodes, just takes forever... I'll sometimes have days worth of encodes queued up that would be a couple hours with hardware.

    that isn't the use case they intended for those cards.. they're great for live streaming.. but i duno why video editing software likes to default to using them.. :/

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 09:21:00 2021
    I go through similar about once a month... sometimes I'll just pay the $4-7 rental price to not deal with the hassle, but at $15+ for a 20yo movie, I'd rather just download it.

    i paid for the movie "Water World" on dvd because nobody had ripped it at the time (at least that i could find. it was a long long time ago. it's NOT a wildly popular movie by any stretch lol).

    nowadays even hot garbage is fairly easy to find with a handful of seeders.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 07:48:05 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Tracker1 to HusTler on Wed Mar 24 2021 02:34 am

    Most of what I'm up for ripping myself is stuff that I cannot get in higher definition anyway, or otherwise is unavailable in torrents. I do buy some things because I want to support certain actions, and money talks, even if mine is a drop in the bucket.

    Now I know who to contact with my ripping questions. I recently purchased an external DVD r+w and made a few copies for a friend. One of the copies crapped out a 23 mins. What causes this? Bad disk?

    |12 HusTler

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 08:30:49 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Mar 24 2021 02:51 am

    Likely a lack of hardware decoding on chip... when 4k streaming devices first came out, h.265 was still really new and a lot of chips on those devices didn't have hardware decoders (and they're all too slow for software decoding). For those things, if you have a desktop/server online, best to setup a plex server.

    Yeah, I have a Plex server at home. I had one TV that seemed to have trouble with h.265 even through the Plex app, but another TV where h.265 seemed to play without any problems.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Wed Mar 24 07:00:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Is it the TV itself, or is it the app you use that doesn't support
    h.265?

    It appears to be the Roku media player app. I should try third party apps,
    see if there's another player.


    ... Where is the edge?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 07:01:00 2021
    Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Weird.. if you have a desktop or server that's always on, may be worth setting up a plex server that can transcode to h264 for you... this way you can still store in the smaller (size wise) format.

    I was thinking the same thing. I have a big drive hooked up to my router sharing via DLNA, maybe it's time for a new project.


    ... Where is the edge?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 07:01:00 2021
    Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    That's another one... didn't really get into that show when I was
    younger, should go back and watch it.

    Loni Anderson got all of the press, but Jan Smithers was the real smoke
    show. :)

    Then again, I was always a Mary-Ann kinda guy.


    ... Where is the edge?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Wed Mar 24 13:45:00 2021
    That was the story behind the 70's TV show "WKRP in Cincinnati". It had some amazing music from the time, albeit playing in the background and not an integral part of the show. The clearances and the cost for the music was prohibitive, apparently since it had to be negotiated/cleared song by song.

    Except for one episode that had Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" as a tie-in to
    the plot. They couldn't get the rights to the song and re-dubbed it into the show. Now it sounds more like "Hold me closer, Tony Danza".

    Some good news there... the latest DVD release, from Shout Factory, has a
    lot of the original songs re-introduced. "Tiny Dancer" in that episode,
    and "Layla" at the end of the "Johnny Comes Back" episode are both restored.

    Unfortunately, Pink Floyd's "Dogs" in the "Turkeys Away" episode, and a few other memorable ones, are missing. At least the replacement for "Dogs"
    sounds like a Pink Floyd cover band instead of some random fill-in music.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Some men are discovered; others are found out.

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HusTler on Wed Mar 24 20:37:00 2021
    Hello HusTler!

    ** On Wednesday 24.03.21 - 07:48, HusTler wrote to Tracker1:

    Now I know who to contact with my ripping questions. I
    recently purchased an external DVD r+w and made a few
    copies for a friend. One of the copies crapped out a 23
    mins. What causes this? Bad disk?

    I have found that I get better success if I limit burn to DVDRW
    at 4X max.

    My units are internal to DT or laptop. In my case I would
    usually encounter failures while I was using the pc for browsing
    or file searching while a burn was taking place.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 18:33:41 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Tracker1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 24 2021 02:42 am

    Weird.. if you have a desktop or server that's always on, may be worth setting up a plex server that can transcode to h264 for you... this way you can still store in the smaller (size wise) format.

    A while ago, I bought the Lifetime Pass for Plex when it was on sale. I read one of the features of Plex Pass is that it can make use of a GPU for transcoding. My BBS/Plex PC is using the Intel graphics on the CPU, and I've thought of buying an inexpensive GPU for it so it can transcode easier. But currently my only TV now can play h.265, so it hasn't been a problem.

    At the same time, I wondered why they don't implement h.265 decoding in the Plex player app. I thought smart TVs these days would generally have a processor fast enough to decode even that video codec, but maybe not.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 18:36:41 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Tracker1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 24 2021 02:47 am

    I go through similar about once a month... sometimes I'll just pay the $4-7 rental price to not deal with the hassle, but at $15+ for a 20yo movie, I'd rather just download it.

    I don't think it really matters how old the movie is. If it's a movie I like, I might be willing to spend the money to buy it on blu-ray or something. They can restore old movies fairly well.

    Sometimes the price seems a bit high though. I've seen 4K releases of the original Star Wars trilogy, but they're priced at about $28 each which seems a bit steep.

    As much as I like to buy & own movies I like, over the years I've realized I rarely watch them, so sometimes I think more about whether I really want to buy them or not.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to fusion on Wed Mar 24 18:46:22 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: fusion to Tracker1 on Wed Mar 24 2021 09:21 am

    i paid for the movie "Water World" on dvd because nobody had ripped it at the time (at least that i could find. it was a long long time ago. it's NOT a wildly popular movie by any stretch lol).

    I remember hearing that was the most expensive movie to produce when it came out. And it wasn't even that great.

    nowadays even hot garbage is fairly easy to find with a handful of seeders.

    Sometimes I wonder why that is, and other good media can be so hard to find.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 24 22:09:48 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 23 2021 07:32 am

    mp4 is a container format, often h.264 aka AVC for 1080p or lower for video. 4K is still mp4 as the container format but h.265 aka HEVC for the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).

    I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what I try to play on it.


    why do you think that and what do you mean about what you play on it.
    i have a 4k roku stick and it plays HEVC

    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to fusion on Wed Mar 24 16:33:07 2021
    On 3/24/2021 2:18 AM, fusion wrote:
    better/faster in the next generation or two... Radeon and NVidia
    cards are so much faster, but the quality/size worse than CPU, I
    still choose CPU encodes, just takes forever... I'll sometimes
    have days worth of encodes queued up that would be a couple hours
    with hardware.

    that isn't the use case they intended for those cards.. they're
    great for live streaming.. but i duno why video editing software
    likes to default to using them.. :/

    Because a couple minutes is a lot faster than a few hours, and
    depending on what you are doing, you can get it good enough at higher
    disk usage and get it done more quickly, still saving a bunch of space
    over the original/raw files. Or getting it small enough to send to
    YouTube that will re-encode the damned thing anyway.

    I get it... but for distro/archive, it's not necessarily the best
    option. It's only that CPU encodes take so much longer.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to HusTler on Wed Mar 24 16:37:18 2021
    On 3/24/2021 4:48 AM, HusTler wrote:
    Most of what I'm up for ripping myself is stuff that I cannot get in
    higher definition anyway, or otherwise is unavailable in torrents. I do
    buy some things because I want to support certain actions, and money
    talks, even if mine is a drop in the bucket.

    Now I know who to contact with my ripping questions. I recently
    purchased an external DVD r+w and made a few copies for a friend.
    One of the copies crapped out a 23 mins. What causes this? Bad disk?

    Not sure... I've had issues with a couple disks here and there, likely
    an error that may not show up on a real BR player. I have bought AnyDVD
    HD as well as MakeMKV usually one or the other, I can get a clean rip to
    my HD.

    Will usually then re-encode with Handbrake using mkv container and
    h.265, if the original audio isn't too big, I'll leave it as-is, or
    recompress to 64kbps per channel aac.

    I'm nowhere near an expert... there's scene guys that are way active,
    I'm just a hobbyist doing his own media now and then.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Wed Mar 24 16:39:34 2021
    On 3/24/2021 8:30 AM, Nightfox wrote:
    Likely a lack of hardware decoding on chip... when 4k streaming
    devices first came out, h.265 was still really new and a lot of
    chips on those devices didn't have hardware decoders (and they're
    all too slow for software decoding). For those things, if you have
    a desktop/server online, best to setup a plex server.

    Yeah, I have a Plex server at home. I had one TV that seemed to
    have trouble with h.265 even through the Plex app, but another TV
    where h.265 seemed to play without any problems.

    Wild, haven't really had any/many issues... though tbh, most of my
    own playback is on the Shield TV with Kodi over CIFS/SMB shares directly.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to TRACKER1 on Thu Mar 25 15:40:00 2021
    Not sure... I've had issues with a couple disks here and there, likely
    an error that may not show up on a real BR player. I have bought AnyDVD
    HD as well as MakeMKV usually one or the other, I can get a clean rip to
    my HD.

    I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for DVD players and
    may not play on PC drives." As advertised, I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on a DVD player (an XBOX).

    Will usually then re-encode with Handbrake using mkv container and
    h.265, if the original audio isn't too big, I'll leave it as-is, or recompress to 64kbps per channel aac.

    I rip using handbrake on a linux system.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Oxymoron: Hillary Rodham Clinton and open-door meetings.

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Dumas Walker on Thu Mar 25 18:27:00 2021
    Hello Dumas!

    ** On Thursday 25.03.21 - 15:40, Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1:

    I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for
    DVD players andmay not play on PC drives." As advertised,
    I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on
    a DVD player (an XBOX).

    That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
    DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
    bought?



    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Thu Mar 25 20:20:20 2021
    Re: Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Dumas Walker to TRACKER1 on Thu Mar 25 2021 03:40 pm

    I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for DVD players and may not play on PC drives." As advertised, I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on a DVD player (an XBOX).

    I wonder how that works. I know DVDs have copy protection, but anything that is capable of playing a DVD (including a PC with a DVD drive and compatible software) should be able to at least play it. I haven't had a DVD that I was unable to play in a PC.

    There's software that can rip a DVD, even with copy protection. I heard DVD copy protection was cracked fairly soon. I've been able to rip any of my DVDs using DVD Shrink (which makes ISOs of DVDs, and can either shrink it to a 4.7GB DVD-R or keep it full-size for a 9.4GB DVD-R). There's a lot of other ripping software that can rip it to a video file too.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ogg on Fri Mar 26 03:43:42 2021
    Re: HD vs 4K
    By: Ogg to Dumas Walker on Thu Mar 25 2021 06:27 pm

    Hello Dumas!

    ** On Thursday 25.03.21 - 15:40, Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1:

    I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for
    DVD players andmay not play on PC drives." As advertised,
    I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on
    a DVD player (an XBOX).

    That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
    DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
    bought?

    I am not a media expert, but some DVDs employ obscure features as to make it harder for desktop software to support it.

    For example, Disney DVDs have the chapters stored in a scrambled order, so if you rip the DVD straight ahead or play it
    directly you won't get to watch the movie properly.

    Which is yet another reason not to purchase a Disney product.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Arelor on Fri Mar 26 09:38:00 2021
    Hello Arelor!

    ** On Friday 26.03.21 - 03:43, Arelor wrote to Ogg:

    I am not a media expert, but some DVDs employ obscure
    features as to make it harder for desktop software to
    support it.

    For example, Disney DVDs have the chapters stored in a
    scrambled order, so if you rip the DVD straight ahead or
    play it directly you won't get to watch the movie properly.

    I am guessing that Duma's set is BluRay? Maybe the BluRay spec
    can be manipulated like that.

    I've only ever worked with traditional DVDs and DVD Shrink has
    never encountered a problem with any of those.

    Which is yet another reason not to purchase a Disney product.

    But.. in a hypocritical way you can avoid buying Disney product
    but buy the stocks and get rich off of them. ;)


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to OGG on Fri Mar 26 10:26:00 2021
    ** On Thursday 25.03.21 - 15:40, Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1:

    I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for
    DVD players andmay not play on PC drives." As advertised,
    I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on
    a DVD player (an XBOX).

    That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
    DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
    bought?

    The Expanse Season 4. That is the first season it was on Amazon rather
    than on SyFy. I suspect Amazon allowed it to be put out on CD provided
    that it was crippled somehow to force people who might want to stream their
    own copy to have to stream it off their service instead.

    If I put it in the DVD player on the XBOX, it will bring up the menu and
    play every title. If I put it in the player on the PC, it will not bring
    up the menu, and I am only able to see and play the extras.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Bartenders DO IT on the rocks..

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Fri Mar 26 10:00:38 2021
    On 3/24/2021 6:33 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    Weird.. if you have a desktop or server that's always on, may be
    worth setting up a plex server that can transcode to h264 for you...
    this way you can still store in the smaller (size wise) format.

    A while ago, I bought the Lifetime Pass for Plex when it was on sale.
    I read one of the features of Plex Pass is that it can make use of a
    GPU for transcoding. My BBS/Plex PC is using the Intel graphics on
    the CPU, and I've thought of buying an inexpensive GPU for it so it
    can transcode easier. But currently my only TV now can play h.265, so
    it hasn't been a problem.

    At the same time, I wondered why they don't implement h.265 decoding
    in the Plex player app. I thought smart TVs these days would
    generally have a processor fast enough to decode even that video
    codec, but maybe not.

    Yeah, most Integrated SOCs have a dedicated processing for media
    decoding, if they don't usually not powerful enough.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Ogg on Fri Mar 26 10:12:02 2021
    On 3/25/2021 3:27 PM, Ogg wrote:
    I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for
    DVD players andmay not play on PC drives." As advertised,
    I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on
    a DVD player (an XBOX).

    That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
    DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
    bought?

    Likely a DRM scheme that abuses standards for how tracks are laid out or something similar that manifests on PC players/rippers but not actual hardware... would be surprised if AnyDVD and MakeMKV don't have it circumvented.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Fri Mar 26 15:50:00 2021
    I wonder how that works. I know DVDs have copy protection, but anything that i
    capable of playing a DVD (including a PC with a DVD drive and compatible softw
    re) should be able to at least play it. I haven't had a DVD that I was unable >o play in a PC.

    There's software that can rip a DVD, even with copy protection. I heard DVD co
    y protection was cracked fairly soon. I've been able to rip any of my DVDs usi
    g DVD Shrink (which makes ISOs of DVDs, and can either shrink it to a 4.7GB DVD
    R or keep it full-size for a 9.4GB DVD-R). There's a lot of other ripping soft
    are that can rip it to a video file too.

    I suspect they are employing some sort of scheme involving intentional bad sectors. ddrescue is not able to get a clean read of the disk. It also
    makes ISOs out of DVDs.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Camel: A quarter horse designed by a committee.

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to OGG on Fri Mar 26 15:52:00 2021
    I am guessing that Duma's set is BluRay? Maybe the BluRay spec
    can be manipulated like that.

    No, it is a DVD set. I don't have a BluRay player.


    * SLMR 2.1a * I'm a nocturnal model

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Tracker1 on Sat Mar 27 01:27:00 2021
    On 26 Mar 2021, Tracker1 said the following...
    Yeah, most Integrated SOCs have a dedicated processing for media decoding, if they don't usually not powerful enough.

    yeah i remember when netbooks first came out that was a pretty common upgrade. either people would remove something from inside the laptop to make space for it, or they would solder on to extra i/o on the board. yank the wifi card,
    put the decoder board where it was, solder in a usb wifi dongle.. lots of whacky stuff. it was kinda neat there for a bit though because homebrewing laptop stuff was a thing. i think that's mostly faded for now.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to TRACKER1 on Sat Mar 27 11:03:00 2021
    That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
    DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
    bought?

    Likely a DRM scheme that abuses standards for how tracks are laid out or something similar that manifests on PC players/rippers but not actual hardware... would be surprised if AnyDVD and MakeMKV don't have it circumvented.

    Do either of these work on linux? I have been using handbrake, which does
    work on linux and will usually do the trick (but not with this DVD set).


    * SLMR 2.1a * The worst ice cream flavor is probably squirrel.

    ---
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