Dumas Walker wrote to ENNEV <=-
@MSGID: <6021A2F5.22204.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
@REPLY: <60213EAE.11600.dove-debate@mtlgeek.synchro.net>
Most Americans these days don't realize that authoritarian socialism / communism has a lot more in common with true fascism than anything we have experienced since the end of the Revolutionary War.
I don't think a true form a communism has even been implemented.
It always end up to be a dictatorship or an oligarchy in disguise.
That is the only way to implement it in a government form. You are
never going to get citizens who have had, or want, personal freedom to agree to being ruled that way. If you have a large section of your populace that won't comply, it will never work.
Power corrupt.
that too.
Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-
At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what
Donald Trump did while in office. I disagree.
probably won't be laid off. ---
Thanks to Capitalism, we are all now disposable trash. I wonder why the system is considered dehumanising...
well, it's a double edged sword. you can ditch your employer and find a better paying job. that's the best way to get better pay. if you're at your current job most likely you wont get too much of a bump. ---
That is a major hassle, and may involve uprooting your family and moving. People just say "get another job" as if its nothing, but it isn't, not always. Not even often.
Also, if you are a skilled specialist, its not that easy either. Its not
Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-
Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-
@MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
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Re: Re: GAB
By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm
Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.
The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
office. I disagree.
He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?
Boraxman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
Dumas Walker wrote to ENNEV <=-
@MSGID: <6021A2F5.22204.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
@REPLY: <60213EAE.11600.dove-debate@mtlgeek.synchro.net>
Most Americans these days don't realize that authoritarian socialism / communism has a lot more in common with true fascism than anything we have experienced since the end of the Revolutionary War.
I don't think a true form a communism has even been implemented.
It always end up to be a dictatorship or an oligarchy in disguise.
That is the only way to implement it in a government form. You are
never going to get citizens who have had, or want, personal freedom to agree to being ruled that way. If you have a large section of your populace that won't comply, it will never work.
Power corrupt.
that too.
The problem with Communism, as with Liberalism, is that it presumes
itself to be the one correct system, and that it requires universal adoption. Its based on the flawed idea that we should submit to one
locus of power, to one institution. That institution will NEVER let go
of power.
One way to support freedom is to not have a single locus of power, but instead multiple powers, mulitple simultaneous sources of power and direction that can be antagonistic. A strong church which might
counter the state, a strong union which might counter the
industrialists. No single 'ruling elite'. No single estiblishment and definately not having everyone align their values. A multipolar
society where no school of thought can gain dominance, and importantly, when individuals are influenced by those mutliple loci of power. When
you have what is happening in the US now, the state, Capitalists, the media, Big Tech pushing and enforcing the same values system, the same vision, you get authoritarianism and Communist style oligarchy. Its
made worse because people ONLY have their employer in their lives, no strong church of community, and ONLY have Social Media monopolies.
Single institutions can monopolise an individuals values system.
That is where polarisation comes from, self-segregation.
So it is Reagan's fault that the Communist utopia that was the USSR failed?
Without outsider intervention, that utopia would continue to exist?
That is what the East German communists were claiming when people were trying to flee to the West by the thousands. It couldn't have been that their communist utopia was really a poop-hole.
I look at it this way, I don't get offened usually by someone elses point of view, but on the other hand if someone gets offended by my point of view that's their problem, I won't walk on eggshells so they won't be offended.
Also, its far less of a hassle to the employer to lose an employee than vice versa, generally. It's not an equal relationship, not a double edges sword.
What does your 401(k) have to say on that subject?
Are you going to give back all the gains because they came as a result of Trump's actions?
Dumas Walker wrote to DREAM MASTER <=-
So it is Reagan's fault that the Communist utopia that was the USSR failed?
Without outsider intervention, that utopia would continue to exist?
That is what the East German communists were claiming when people were trying to flee to the West by the thousands. It couldn't have been
that their communist utopia was really a poop-hole.
And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.
I think that more people would believe socialism could work if the
Elites could point to ANY place where socialism worked. But they
refuse to admit that every attempt has failed, horribly and for exactly
the same reasons: The Elites "in charge" were complete and utter morons.
Denn wrote to Vague <=-
Re: Re: GAB
By: Vague to Boraxman on Wed Feb 10 2021 01:00 am
And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.
Like CNN? NYT? and other outlets that spew leftist propaganda?
seems like you're doing exactly what you accuse everyone else of.
the facts are there for you to look at but you don't.
you're right on the last sentence, there is no point debating you
because you make shciff up as you go.
The problem with Communism, as with Liberalism, is that it presumes itself to >be the one correct system, and that it requires universal adoption. Its based >on the flawed idea that we should submit to one locus of power, to one >institution. That institution will NEVER let go of power.
That is where polarisation comes from, self-segregation.
East Germany was definitely not a fun place to live. Coworkers of mine that we
e from the east always told me that their lives weren't great as children or yo
ng adults. It is definitely enlightening.
Remember that people like Dream Master are Elites.
They will say that Venesuela and the USSR weren't "real socialism" or that they "didn't do it right" - all implying that the Elites here will "do
it correctly this time."
MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <602364E3.1534.dove-deb@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <60232C25.20311.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Boraxman to MRO on Tue Feb 09 2021 10:42 pm
probably won't be laid off. ---
Thanks to Capitalism, we are all now disposable trash. I wonder why the system is considered dehumanising...
well, it's a double edged sword. you can ditch your employer and find a better paying job. that's the best way to get better pay. if you're at your current job most likely you wont get too much of a bump. ---
That is a major hassle, and may involve uprooting your family and moving. People just say "get another job" as if its nothing, but it isn't, not always. Not even often.
Also, if you are a skilled specialist, its not that easy either. Its not
all of life is a major hassle. and you have to plan your life right.
dont be in an area where there arent jobs. dont plant your family down
in a shitty area like that. i live in an area where the jobs are
plenty and people dont want to work. i almost jumped jobs a few times
but i'm riding it out over this covid shit.
things arent hopeless, it's not impossible to move to another job if
you have decent skills and a background. which you should have by the
age 40.
it's normal to move to another job for better pay. in most cases that's the only way you're going to get it. ---
Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
@REPLY: <60232C2E.20315.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-
Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-
@MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
@REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm
Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.
The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
office. I disagree.
He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?
And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.
Dream Master wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <6023ED7F.1222.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
@REPLY: <60232C25.20311.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Boraxman to MRO on Tue
Feb 09 2021 10:42 pm
Also, its far less of a hassle to the employer to lose an employee than vice versa, generally. It's not an equal relationship, not a double edges sword.
Companies would rather see you walk than pay you more. They'll then
hire someone new and pay them more than simply giving you a 4 or 5%
raise or increase your bonus percentage.
Case in point, I was with my previous employer for 20 years. I started off as a "senior" and ended up as a "lead" and I am specialized. When
the raise percentages started getting smaller each year and their statement, "You make too much. We can't give you any greater of a percentage," it showed that they didn't care. When I tendered my resignation, my boss went to the CIO and made it clear that they need
to retain me. Their statement, "We don't match compensation and his compensation is already too high."
Cool.
Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-
@VIA: VERT/MSRDBBS
@MSGID: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@REPLY: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
@REPLY: <60232C2E.20315.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-
Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-
@MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
@REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm
Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.
The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
office. I disagree.
He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?
And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.
If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to
answer at least one of my questions.
There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed
Trump.
Dream Master wrote to Dr. What <=-
They will say that Venesuela and the USSR weren't "real socialism" or that they "didn't do it right" - all implying that the Elites here will "do
it correctly this time."
I can't speak for Venezuela but can for the USSR. The fall of
the USSR was mostly of their own doing simply by opening the door
to Western style elections, allowing outside "influence"
(glasnost) to work through their populace, and the restructuring (perestroika) of their internal industry and economy. With
state-run media no longer controlling the airwaves, dissent
formed creating a major rift in government control.
Yet, let's return to the real problem. Why not invite change
throughout America?
Why keep everything the way it is because "it simply works"?
The old way doesn't work. We are hellbent on keeping everything the
same, we will fall behind on the world stage allowing countries like
China to move forward. Is that what you want? Probably not.
What will my children do? The system is failing people. There is nothing to gain apologising for it, defending Capitalism and our economic structure. It time to stop "coping" and "Adapating" like a chump and start pushing for some real change.
The old way of... what? Governing? Running a country? Of course it works. The old way brought our country from NOT EXISTING to the preeminant world super-power in 200 years. We're still the world super-power. What's not working?
Sorry, but using "it's not working" as an argument for socialism/communism is.... ummm... not working. Just like socialism/communism doesn't.
Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <6025CC0B.799.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
@REPLY: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-
@VIA: VERT/MSRDBBS
@MSGID: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@REPLY: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
@REPLY: <60232C2E.20315.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-
Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-
@MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
@REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm
Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.
The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
office. I disagree.
He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?
And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.
If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to
answer at least one of my questions.
There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed
Trump.
I though you would understand when I said "There is no point in
debating with someone doing that", but I see I was wrong.
I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you
with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.
One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate you
if that's what you want, however.
MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <602617B2.1594.dove-deb@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <6024CEC5.20384.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Feb 10 2021 10:53 pm
What will my children do? The system is failing people. There is nothing to gain apologising for it, defending Capitalism and our economic structure. It time to stop "coping" and "Adapating" like a chump and start pushing for some real change.
well it's setup on a bad foundation. most people live near the coast
and the rest of the country is pretty much unlivable, right?
if i were you i'd see what the intelligent young people are doing. if
what they are doing isnt helping, it's a hopeless situation. ---
Arelor wrote to Dr. What <=-
To Dream Master's credit, Socialism has proven to work. And by that I mean, many Socialist leaders have become powerful and rich by running Socialist regimes. So you could say Socialism has been a working
success for people like Castro or Francisco Franco :-)
Why keep everything the way it is because "it simply works"?
You answered it yourself. Because it simply works. That's the goal, isn't it? To have something work?
Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: GAB
By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Thu Feb 11 2021 08:00 am
The old way of... what? Governing? Running a country? Of course it works. The old way brought our country from NOT EXISTING to the preeminant world super-power in 200 years. We're still the world super-power. What's not working?
Our Constitutional drafted wanted each citizen to have rights
that were unattainable in England. Putting quill to parchment,
they wrote a document that was forward thinking, righting the
wrongs of America's past, and demonstrating to the world what a
Democratic Republic could be. This forward thinking enabled the
common man to invent the submarine, cotton gin, interchangable
parts, plough, profile lathe, reaping machine, power tools,
telegraph, offset printing, cars, airplane, rocket, television,
frozen food, and the list goes on and on.
As we evolve as a people, we must look beyond the traditional
methods and look to ways that improve our lives. For example,
the invention of the telegraph led to the invention of the phone
to the invention of interstate communication to the internet as
we know it today. In the same way the drafters of the
Constitution knew that changes must take place in our governing
document through the Amendment process. This evolution brought
us our Bill of Rights. Further to this, this "new way of
thinking" allowed us to end slavery, womens suffrage, etc., etc.
Change is inevitable and moving forward is how we will progress
to our next steps. Your claim that America remains a
super-power, but of what? Military strength? The strength of a
country isn't measured by the number of tanks, missles, and
soldiers it has, but of its innovation, its desire to improve the
world and its people, and how it strives to bring about positive
change not only of itself but of those around it.
Sorry, but using "it's not working" as an argument for socialism/communism is.... ummm... not working. Just like socialism/communism doesn't.
So, let's just keep the status quo? It's not working.
Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-
I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you
with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.
One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate you
if that's what you want, however.
You come accross as a 17 old who thinks being snarky and
pretending to have a moral high ground might convince people of
your moral superiority.
I don't know whats sadder, your lack of self-awareness, or the
fact you think you are successfully passing yourself off as
anything other than a troll.
It seems like we agree that continual change in thought processes is vital, and is on-going. What you seem to want to change is the FUNDAMENTAL method of our government. Changing from capitalism and a democratic republic to something else. Like socialism or communism. That kind of change is *NOT* what we've been talking about above. So to answer your question... YES, just keep the status quo. Hard to understand why you can't see that.
And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your
position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.
If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to
answer at least one of my questions.
There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the
government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed
Trump.
I though you would understand when I said "There is no point in
debating with someone doing that", but I see I was wrong.
I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you
with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.
One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate
you
if that's what you want, however.
You come accross as a 17 old who thinks being snarky and pretending to have a moral high ground might convince people of your moral superiority.
I don't know whats sadder, your lack of self-awareness, or the
fact you think you are successfully passing yourself off as
anything other than a troll.
100% agreed. He's a loser troll, for sure. Best to just ignore.
Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-
It seems like we agree that continual change in thought processes is vital, and is on-going. What you seem to want to change is the FUNDAMENTAL method of our government. Changing from capitalism and a democratic republic to something else. Like socialism or communism. That kind of change is *NOT* what we've been talking about above. So to answer your question... YES, just keep the status quo. Hard to understand why you can't see that.
Our government isn't working--it's too polar. Instead of working
together and finding someplace in the middle that works, you have
each group that resists anything even remotely forward. This is
my problem. As a country, we can't even work together, we can't
even agree on what's best for everyone. You have one side trying
to take rights away from one group and another whos is trying to
force change on the other.
Ultimately, I just want to see consensus in our government. I'm
tired of the same shit different day way of governing. It's
tiring and isn't getting a thing done.
Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
Why keep everything the way it is because "it simply works"?
You answered it yourself. Because it simply works. That's the goal, isn't it? To have something work?
I thought the goal was to replace things that work, but maybe
don't give you "the feels," with things that don't work but make
you feel good.
At least, that is what you do if you are one of "the Elite."
Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-
@MSGID: <60268A80.1285.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
@REPLY: <6025E77C.4094.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Gamgee to Dream Master on
Thu Feb 11 2021 08:00 am
The old way of... what? Governing? Running a country? Of course it works. The old way brought our country from NOT EXISTING to the preeminant world super-power in 200 years. We're still the world super-power. What's not working?
Our Constitutional drafted wanted each citizen to have rights that were unattainable in England. Putting quill to parchment, they wrote a document that was forward thinking, righting the wrongs of America's
past, and demonstrating to the world what a Democratic Republic could
be. This forward thinking enabled the common man to invent the
submarine, cotton gin, interchangable parts, plough, profile lathe, reaping machine, power tools, telegraph, offset printing, cars,
airplane, rocket, television, frozen food, and the list goes on and on.
As we evolve as a people, we must look beyond the traditional methods
and look to ways that improve our lives. For example, the invention of the telegraph led to the invention of the phone to the invention of interstate communication to the internet as we know it today. In the
same way the drafters of the Constitution knew that changes must take place in our governing document through the Amendment process. This evolution brought us our Bill of Rights. Further to this, this "new
way of thinking" allowed us to end slavery, womens suffrage, etc., etc.
Change is inevitable and moving forward is how we will progress to our next steps. Your claim that America remains a super-power, but of
what? Military strength? The strength of a country isn't measured by
the number of tanks, missles, and soldiers it has, but of its
innovation, its desire to improve the world and its people, and how it strives to bring about positive change not only of itself but of those around it.
Sorry, but using "it's not working" as an argument for socialism/communism is.... ummm... not working. Just like socialism/communism doesn't.
So, let's just keep the status quo? It's not working.
That's not consensus, that's communism/dictatorship. No thanks. I hear airplane flights to Venezuela (socialist paradise) are quite cheap at the moment. Perhaps you'd be happier there?
Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-
@VIA: VERT/MSRDBBS
@MSGID: <602684CC.20407.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@REPLY: <6025CC0B.799.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <6025CC0B.799.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
@REPLY: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-
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Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
@REPLY: <60232C2E.20315.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-
Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-
@MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
@REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm
Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.
The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
office. I disagree.
He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?
And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.
If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to
answer at least one of my questions.
There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed
Trump.
I though you would understand when I said "There is no point in
debating with someone doing that", but I see I was wrong.
I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you
with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.
One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate you
if that's what you want, however.
You come accross as a 17 old who thinks being snarky and pretending to have a moral high ground might convince people of your moral
superiority.
I don't know whats sadder, your lack of self-awareness, or the fact you think you are successfully passing yourself off as anything other than
a troll.
Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-
That's not consensus, that's communism/dictatorship. No thanks. I hear airplane flights to Venezuela (socialist paradise) are quite cheap at the moment. Perhaps you'd be happier there?
I've been to many countries throughout the world and find Chile
and Canada to be my two favorites.
You call me a communist but I call myself a socialist simply because
I believe everyone should be entitled to a good quality life.
Oh, I also believe that, assuming the person is willing to work towards that goal, and put in some effort of their own to achieve it. You used the key word - "entitled". If I hadn't seen you post your rough age, I'd have thought you were part of the millenial/entitlement generation. You sure act like you are.
something like "tHeY'rE nOt vErIfIaBlE fAcTs" due to your confirmation bias.
Anyway... cool story you go there, Bro. Good times. Wear you mask.
Let's name our example Suzy. She's 18, just finished high school with a 3.0 GPA. Her parents are lower middle class, making a combined income of $70,000/year pre-tax putting them in the 12% tax bracket. Suzy's parents can afford to take out PLUS loans to pay for her education at the local college; therefore, Suzy must take out student loans to pay for her education. Suzy chooses, wisely, to live at home. Suzy wants to be an English teacher and graduates college with a BA in English. She is saddled with $37,640 in stud loan debt (College Costs, College Board, Public Four-Year College, In State) and chooses a graduated repayment plan over 10 years. She applies and as is hired by the local school district as a high school English teacher. She is 22.
Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-
Oh, I also believe that, assuming the person is willing to work towards that goal, and put in some effort of their own to achieve it. You used the key word - "entitled". If I hadn't seen you post your rough age, I'd have thought you were part of the millenial/entitlement generation. You sure act like you are.
Ah, thank you! You said it right there, "...willing to work
towards that goal, and put in some effort of their own to achieve
it." Again, our free market economy makes it impossible for
those who don't make enough to afford to live, obtain quality
healthcare, and be in a position to retire at 65, 67, or even 70.
You preordain that everyone should work towards some mysterious
goal making an undefined amount of money thus defines their
acheivement. But that's the problem you fail to grasp. It's not
always possible.
Let's name our example Suzy. She's 18, just finished high school
with a 3.0 GPA. Her parents are lower middle class, making a
combined income of $70,000/year pre-tax putting them in the 12%
tax bracket. Suzy's parents can't afford to take out PLUS loans
to pay for her education at the local college; therefore, Suzy
must take out student loans to pay for her education. Suzy
chooses, wisely, to live at home. Suzy wants to be an English
teacher and graduates college with a BA in English. She is
saddled with $37,640 in student loan debt (College Costs, College
Board, Public Four-Year College, In State) and chooses a
graduated repayment plan over 10 years. She applies and as is
hired by the local school district as a high school English
teacher. She is 22.
Suzy is single, getting paid $37,691/year pre-tax. Her school
district has medical insurance options, costing her $595/mo. Her
yealy income before taxes is $30,551. She is taxed at 12% of her
gross yearly take home, $3666, leaving her net yearly take home
of $26,885.
Suzy's parents decide to move out of state and she must find a
place to live. Rent is approximately $1,621/mo for a one bedroom apartment (rent.com, Average Rent Prices in 2020). She signs the
lease. Suzy is now paying $19,452/year in rent. She has a
remainder of $7,433 left per year. She has $619/mo to live on.
This is the problem in America.
Can you live on $691/mo?
Don't forget groceries, utilities, gas for her car (her parents
gave her), car insurance, and repayment of her student loan.
This is precisely why it is impossible for people to make it in
this country. You can sit here all day debating the numbers but
the fact remains: the numbers don't lie.
Socialized healthcare, exactly what retirees, veterans, and
disabled get, would increase Suzy's $691/mo to over $1,200/mo, a
more manageable amount being that she is single.
Is she successful? Yes, in my book. She has a career and is
doing something positive for society. Can she afford to live?
No.
if you're going to troll people here, you're going to use more
than your internet fuckboi grab bag.
examples:
something like "tHeY'rE nOt vErIfIaBlE fAcTs" due to your confirmation
bias.
i notice this new thing with them mixing case in a mocking manner to say the person is retarded or whatever. boring and played out.
Anyway... cool story you go there, Bro. Good times. Wear you mask.
i cant believe you went with 'cool story, bro'
Okay, so there's one person in your entire list. Is there evidence
Maria Butina was operating directly under instruction from Trump?
I don't know. I didn't prosecute or attend the proceedings.
I am just saying it is not a hoax.
I am just saying it is not a hoax.
I'm not saying there wasn't russian attempts at interference, or china, or syria and israel for that matter..
The hoax is that Trump had anything to do with it.
Trump (or any president) doesn't need to be well liked. If he'd pay attentio to needful things he could likely could have stayed for a second term.
Ttyl :-),
He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them.
BTW. Mr. Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.
MRO said you have to plan your life in order not to screw up. I think planing >to get a biology degree in a community with lots of biologists and no need for >yet another biologist _is_ planing to screw up.
Sure it is. What you still fail to grasp is the simple truth that not everything is "EQUAL" for everybody. Some will retire at 50, some at
70, most somewhere between those ages. Not everybody will be able to
afford the same lifestyle in retirement, just exactly as they don't
during working years. You live within your means and you get by.
I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative
and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"
He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim Smith.
I'm not saying there wasn't russian attempts at interference, or china,
or syria and israel for that matter..
The hoax is that Trump had anything to do with it.
Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
Sure it is. What you still fail to grasp is the simple truth that not everything is "EQUAL" for everybody. Some will retire at 50, some at
70, most somewhere between those ages. Not everybody will be able to
afford the same lifestyle in retirement, just exactly as they don't
during working years. You live within your means and you get by.
I am eligible to retire from my current employment in my 50's.
To do so, I will need to tighten my belt some. If I am not
willing to do so, I won't be able to afford retirement until my
60's or 70's.
I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to
grasp. Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not
going to be able to retire in their 50s/60s.
I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"
I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative
and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"
He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim Smith.
I have a feeling there are many places on this net where Vague's posts no longer show up.
* SLMR 2.1a * Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!
I'm not so sure of anything trump says or does anymore.
He called it both a witch hunt and a hoax, along with climate change and the coronavirus.
Trump (or any president) doesn't need to be well liked. If he'd pay attention to needful things he could likely could have stayed for a second term.
He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them. BTW. Mr. Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.
I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is
conservative and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the
SAND" He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim
Smith.
I have a feeling there are many places on this net where Vague's posts no longer show up.
MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
@MSGID: <60298F67.1648.dove-deb@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <60294892.22364.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Dumas Walker to DENN on Sun Feb 14 2021 10:28 am
I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative
and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"
He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim Smith.
I have a feeling there are many places on this net where Vague's posts no longer show up.
* SLMR 2.1a * Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!
that's fine though, that's how it works. people that want to read what
he posts can do it, others that dont, dont.
Right there. You said it perfectly. Donald Trump chose to call whatever wasn't popular to him and his followers a "Witch Hunt" and a "Hoax".
Whether this was COVID-19, Climate Change, the Economy, whatever, that's how he communicated.
he posts can do it, others that dont, dont.
.CAN?
Is this an individual option to block peoples posts? First I'm hearing of this.
He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them. BTW. Mr.
Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.
"Teflon Don" strikes again.
I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to
grasp. Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not
going to be able to retire in their 50s/60s.
Indeed. I'm afraid many of the recent generation (or two) will be in
for a rude awakening when they reach middle age. Lack of prior planning
will be a huge problem for many of them.
Dumas Walker wrote to ARELOR <=-
Something folks who push degrees, and some form of collective/socialist/whatever-you-want-to-call-it utopia don't seem to understand that there are a lot of jobs that "need doing" that don't require a degree.
I don't care if you are in the "evil" western capitalist society or in
the utopia they think is possible, your society will NOT WORK if there
are not folks willing to do what needs doing and not seeing those jobs
as "beneath them."
I believe the only way you get there is not by pushing kids towards impractical degrees but instead teaching them to be happy as
themselves.
IMHO, filling their heads full of crap, and keeping their pockets empty the rest of their lives, is much meaner than telling them "no" up
front.
Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to grasp.
Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not going to be able
to retire in their 50s/60s.
Gamgee wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
Exactly. Living beyond your means (which for the Dems and millenials
in the crowd means having excessive debt) means a delayed retirement
until that debt can be paid back. It's really quite simple actually.
Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
I don't agree with their fix... throw more good money after bad...
though. I think the fix is to stop throwing any more money at it and changing how things are done to make it more difficult to build that
debt to begin with.
The Elites look upon those non-degree jobs with scorn because they are "beneath" them. In reality those kinds of jobs require skill and knowledge and are completely beyond the ability of the Elites to do. But Elites **need** to believe that they are better.
I believe the only way you get there is not by pushing kids towards
Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
@MSGID: <602ADF73.22397.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
@REPLY: <60298394.4172.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to
grasp. Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not
going to be able to retire in their 50s/60s.
Indeed. I'm afraid many of the recent generation (or two) will be in
for a rude awakening when they reach middle age. Lack of prior planning will be a huge problem for many of them.
One thing I cannot fully disagree with Democrats/the left on is that
the lack of proper, prior planning by previous generations, like their parents or those who threw money at them when they were "earning" a useless degree and building crushing debts, is eventually going to come back and bite those future adults who had no hand in those prior decisions.
I don't agree with their fix... throw more good money after bad...
though. I think the fix is to stop throwing any more money at it and changing how things are done to make it more difficult to build that
debt to begin with.
"Free college," unless that involves forcing students to get practical educations and changing the limits based on work force demand, is not
the way to fix it.
Dr. What wrote to Gamgee <=-
Exactly. Living beyond your means (which for the Dems and millenials
in the crowd means having excessive debt) means a delayed retirement
until that debt can be paid back. It's really quite simple actually.
It means being very dependant on the gov't handouts when you are
in retirement. It's all part of the Plantation scheme that the
Dems have to create large groups of people who will ALWAYS vote
Democrat to keep their handouts coming.
Oh, no. They are quite well aware of that. But convincing people that degrees are "needed" they:
1. Funnel lots of money into colleges, that are cesspools of useless Lefties 2. Puts kids/parents into debt, which makes them more dependant on the gov't handouts.
3. Puts more kids into the Leftie indocrination centers that many of our universities have become.
The Elites look upon those non-degree jobs with scorn because they are "beneath" them. In reality those kinds of jobs require skill and knowledge and are completely beyond the ability of the Elites to do. But Elites **need** to believe that they are better.
Mike Rowe Works Foundation.
But that's what the Lefties want: People as useless as themselves, but think that they are better than the people who actually **DO** something. And feeling mad because the local plumber is making better money than they do.
Even 30-40 years ago, financial planning was NOT something that was commonly taught in the schools. Luckily, my parents did a good job of that with me.
But I know that today, such education is not commonplace at all.
It means being very dependant on the gov't handouts when you are in retirement. It's all part of the Plantation scheme that the Dems have
to create large groups of people who will ALWAYS vote Democrat to keep
their handouts coming.
1. We get a bunch of worthless Leftie "professors" in worthless Leftie colleges who get to continue making a living doing nothing useful.
Benefit: Lefties.
2. We get a bunch of people who are saddled with debt and have a useless degree that's not worth anything. These people are dependant on the gov't, mad at the fact that they "have a degree" but the high paying job that
they were promised never materalized and have the time and hatred to
smash buildings and riot.
Benefit: Lefties.
3. Those colleges, who are flush with money for producing nothing but brainwashed morons, donate back to the Democrat establishment.
Benefit: Lefties.
So why would the Lefties want to fix this? It benefits them all around.
cleaning a huge place in a small amount of time takes a lot of skill. it takes a lot of time management skill. you have to be very organized. a lot of these workers who thought they were better than us were berated constantly for not having these attributes.
Oh, no. They are quite well aware of that. But convincing people that degrees are "needed" they:
1. Funnel lots of money into colleges, that are cesspools of useless Lefties
2. Puts kids/parents into debt, which makes them more dependant on
the gov't handouts.
3. Puts more kids into the Leftie indocrination centers that many of our universities have become.
College is not an indoctrination center, it is a place to gain knowledge. Whether you choose to open your mind or not to knew ideas and concepts remai a choice you and you alone make.
3. Those colleges, who are flush with money for producing nothing but brainwashed morons, donate back to the Democrat establishment.
Benefit: Lefties.
The majority of colleges spend their money on athetics.
See, that's what we call an unfounded claim. I'd love to see your source fo that.
In my personal experience, I'm not sure how much of this is really true.. I got an associates & a bachelor's degree in software engineering, and I think the degree program I was in was fairly good and focused on what it was meant be. In the classes I had, I never had a sense that anyone was pushing a political agenda either way; they were just teaching the course material.
I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to grasp.
Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not going to be able
to retire in their 50s/60s.
Even 30-40 years ago, financial planning was NOT something that was commonly taught in the schools. Luckily, my parents did a good job of that with me.
I don't agree with their fix... throw more good money after bad... though. I think the fix is to stop throwing any more money at it and changing how things are done to make it more difficult to build that debt to begin with.
I think you are looking at this the wrong way.
Everyone knows that throwing good money after bad won't solve the problem,
so I think we can assume that solving the problem is **not** the goal.
Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have been to a College much different than mine.
For some careers, degrees are needed and not having one will prevent you from getting in the door. Your points are rather foolish but offer some validation to claims I've made numerous times. Public colleges should be free or heavily subsized. This will reduce the financial burden on families and open more doors for children who avoid careers due to the high debt load. There is nothing wrong with colleges; they open the minds of our youth allowing them to examine multiple arguments besides those they were raised with. There are views and arguments that our youth may never look beyond that college will never fix, but the thought of trying is still important.
Re: Re: GAB
By: Arelor to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 2021 05:42 pm
Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special
bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have bee
to a College much different than mine.
College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from it what you put in. You're right, college is a great plac
to get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the now deceased Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right
website--indoctrination happens if you let it.
Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS
Dream Master wrote to Arelor <=-
Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have been to a College much different than mine.
College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from
it what you put in. You're right, college is a great place to
get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the
now deceased Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right website--indoctrination happens if you let it.
Nightfox wrote to Dr. What <=-
In my personal experience, I'm not sure how much of this is really
true.. I got an associates & a bachelor's degree in software
engineering, and I think the degree program I was in was fairly good
and focused on what it was meant to be. In the classes I had, I never
had a sense that anyone was pushing a political agenda either way; they were just teaching the course material.
As far as debt, I can understand not wanting debt. I was in a
low-income situation where I qualified for financial aid in the form of grants that significantly eased the cost for me. I came out of college debt-free. Although I had the option to take loans, I chose not to.
What was leftover after grants was paid out of pocket.
Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-
I don't think they taught it when I was in school, which fits that time frame. They may have taught it in the "remedial" classes, where they seemed to teach more practical stuff than the "college bound" classes.
Luckily my parents did a good job of that also. IMHO the failing here
is not just on the schools.
Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-
Everyone knows that throwing good money after bad won't solve the problem, so I think we can assume that solving the problem is **not** the goal.
I am not convinced that everyone does know that.
I do agree that many
are set up to benefit from the practice for sure.
Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-
Many college departments are more power ful than people think and you
get professors distributing weird ideas to students, like "continuous calculus is a worthless model", without opposition.
Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it.
I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to grasp. Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not going to be able to retire in their 50s/60s.
Even 30-40 years ago, financial planning was NOT something that was commonly taught in the schools. Luckily, my parents did a good job of that with me.
I don't think they taught it when I was in school, which fits that time frame. They may have taught it in the "remedial" classes, where they
seemed to teach more practical stuff than the "college bound" classes.
Luckily my parents did a good job of that also. IMHO the failing here is not just on the schools.
My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not in debt.
I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.
I don't think jobs are High School 2.0 at all.
So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges tend
to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal
political beliefs into their lesson plans?
Seriously?
That's a *LOT* different than watching/listening to a particular
channel, or "going to a website". Not even remotely the same thing.
Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-
So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges tend
to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal
political beliefs into their lesson plans?
Yes, that is what I am saying. I've been to colleges in Orange
County, California and Denver, Colorado. My professors were on
both sides and I never once felt indoctrinated into a certain
"mindset". Once again, you take what you want from college. I
spent many hours debating professors who were on both sides, I
learned some, laughed some, and regretted some of those
conversations. Ultimately, I still learned.
My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for
their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and
board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money
Okay, and that works for you and your family, but I believe higher education should also be subsidized ensuring greater access to education. We are the only country in the world where education is a luxury. Even a paltry 1% increase in taxes would fund higher education. Just for clarification, primary, middle, and high schools are paid for by home ownership taxes. Those who live in apartments do not directly pay into "lower" education.
So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that
nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their
personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?
Yes, that is what I am saying. I've been to colleges in Orange County, California and Denver, Colorado. My professors were on both sides and I never once felt indoctrinated into a certain "mindset". Once again, you take what you want from college. I spent many hours debating professors who were on both sides, I learned some, laughed some, and regretted some of those conversations. Ultimately, I still learned.
Yes, that is what I am saying. I've been to colleges in Orange County, Califor
ia and Denver, Colorado. My professors were on both sides and I never once fel
indoctrinated into a certain "mindset". Once again, you take what you want fr
m college. I spent many hours debating professors who were on both sides, I le
rned some, laughed some, and regretted some of those conversations. Ultimately,
I still learned.
If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not depend on >taxes to pay for it.
If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not depend on taxes to pay for it.
If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not
depend on taxes to pay for it.
That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a good local economy, we need skilled & educated workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being outsourced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose that might mean the local population is too lazy to work for their higher education, and the people overseas are more willing to work for it?
Re: Re: GAB
By: Denn to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 2021 11:15 pm
If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not depend on taxes to pay for it.
That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a good local economy, we need skilled & educated
workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being outsourced
overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose that might mean
local population is too lazy to work for their higher education, and the people overseas are more willing to work for it?
Nightfox
Re: Re: GAB
By: Nightfox to Denn on Fri Feb 19 2021 08:12 pm
If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not
depend on taxes to pay for it.
That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a good local economy, we need skilled &
educated workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being
outsourced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose t
might mean the local population is too lazy to work for their higher education, and the people overseas are more willin
to work for it?
We have the skilled worker's, companies like Disney and others made workers train their oversea's replacements, the oversea
workers like in India work for far less money.
Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-
So when I read that we have to increase the availability of
College education, why I am reading is "we have to funnel more
people into a broken education system."
We have the skilled worker's, companies like Disney and others made workers train their oversea's replacements, the oversea's workers like in India work for far less money.
HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they are learning the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to integrate with their existing products.
In the end of the day it is all about getting the best result/dollar ratio.
That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a g
od local economy, we need skilled & educated workers, so it would be good to ma
e a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being outs
urced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs.
HusTler wrote to Dream Master <=-
@VIA: VERT/HAVENS
@MSGID: <602A6790.4769.dove-debate@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
@REPLY: <602981F9.1351.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Dream Master to HusTler on Sun Feb 14 2021 01:03 pm
He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them. BTW. Mr.
Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.
"Teflon Don" strikes again.
I'LL BE BOK ;-)
Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-
@VIA: VERT/PALANT
@MSGID: <602DA9FC.4221.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
@REPLY: <602D4539.1401.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 09:32 am
College is not an indoctrination center, it is a place to gain knowledge. Whether you choose to open your mind or not to knew ideas and concepts remai a choice you and you alone make.
Colleges are indoctrination centers.
Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-
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Re: Re: GAB
By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 10:22 am
3. Those colleges, who are flush with money for producing nothing but brainwashed morons, donate back to the Democrat establishment.
Benefit: Lefties.
The majority of colleges spend their money on athetics.
See, that's what we call an unfounded claim. I'd love to see your source fo that.
When I was at college and I wanted to join some extra-curicular coding/engineering activities, I realized ALL the College sponsored
ones were woke infiltrated.
Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-
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Re: Re: GAB
By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 12:37 pm
In my personal experience, I'm not sure how much of this is really true.. I got an associates & a bachelor's degree in software engineering, and I think the degree program I was in was fairly good and focused on what it was meant be. In the classes I had, I never had a sense that anyone was pushing a political agenda either way; they were just teaching the course material.
Technical and science-studies seem to be resistant to political infiltration because the people in them are not good candidates for politicla activism - so I see less recruiters from political groups trying.
The arts, filosophy, literature and nursery studies were LOADED with politics. Heck, you had arts students scoring credits for erecting monuments to Marx and Bakunin.
Denn wrote to Dream Master <=-
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Re: Re: GAB
By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 09:32 am
For some careers, degrees are needed and not having one will prevent you from getting in the door. Your points are rather foolish but offer some validation to claims I've made numerous times. Public colleges should be free or heavily subsized. This will reduce the financial burden on families and open more doors for children who avoid careers due to the high debt load. There is nothing wrong with colleges; they open the minds of our youth allowing them to examine multiple arguments besides those they were raised with. There are views and arguments that our youth may never look beyond that college will never fix, but the thought of trying is still important.
My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
in debt.
I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.
Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-isi
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Re: Re: GAB
By: Dream Master to Arelor on Wed Feb 17 2021 05:44 pm
Re: Re: GAB
By: Arelor to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 2021 05:42 pm
Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is
ting it. It is High School 2.0 with a speciali
bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling
th political campaigning then you must have beeou
to a College much different than mine.
College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from it what
put in. You're right, college is a great placeceas
to get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the now
ed Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right
website--indoctrination happens if you let it.
Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS
I don't think jobs are High School 2.0 at all.
Certain workplaces are indoctrination centers, but they are nothing
like High School.
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Dream Master wrote to Arelor <=-
Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have been to a College much different than mine.
College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from
it what you put in. You're right, college is a great place to
get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the
now deceased Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right website--indoctrination happens if you let it.
So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?
Seriously?
Arelor wrote to Denn <=-w
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Re: Re: GAB
By: Denn to Nightfox on
Sat Feb 20 2021 12:48 am
Re: Re: GAB
By: Nightfox to Denn on Fri Feb 19 2021 08:12 pm
If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not
depend on taxes to pay for it.
That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we
ant a good local economy, we need skilled &fo
educated workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easierto obtain. There are many jobs that are being
outsourced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers
r the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose tedu
might mean the local population is too lazy to work for their higher
cation, and the people overseas are more willin
to work for it?
We have the skilled worker's, companies like Disney and others made workers
train their oversea's replacements, the oversea
workers like in India work for far less money.
It is a tight balance.
HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they are learning
the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to integrate
with their existing products.
In the end of the day it is all about getting the best result/dollar ratio.
HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to
outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they are
learning the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to
integrate with their existing products.
Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.
Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.
We dumb ass "consoomers" figured out that cheap imports were cheaper
because they weren't as good, how did these well paid people miss this?
Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-
So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?
I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao
Vague wrote to Arelor <=-
When I was at college and I wanted to join some extra-curicular coding/engineering activities, I realized ALL the College sponsored
ones were woke infiltrated.
As soon as you hear "woke infiltrated" in a conversation, you
know the level of bullshit will be astronomical.
Vague wrote to Denn <=-
My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
in debt.
I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.
Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and
resources to do that for them.
I wonder how many people can do that?
Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.
MRO wrote to Denn <=-
i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone
was so excited! except me who said fuck that.
Boraxman wrote to Arelor <=-
Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.
MRO wrote to Denn <=-
i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone was so excited! except me who said fuck that.
I wonder if anyone stayed in PR and went into business for themselves consulting for the outsourcer?
Now that would have been the boss move.
Gamgee wrote to Vague <=-
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Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-
So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?
I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao
What makes you think I'm "pretending"? You don't think it's possible
that I know that for certain?
Gamgee wrote to Vague <=-
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Vague wrote to Denn <=-
My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
in debt.
I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.
Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and
resources to do that for them.
He said that they let their kids stay at their home while the kids went
to college, and fed them. How much money and resources does that require...??
I wonder how many people can do that?
I'd say nearly 100% of people. I mean, the kids were staying/eating
there before they left for college, right?
Nightfox wrote to Boraxman <=-
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@REPLY: <6031CA28.20569.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Boraxman to Arelor on
Sat Feb 20 2021 12:17 pm
HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to
outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they are
learning the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to
integrate with their existing products.
Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.
I think there's more to it than cheaper = lower quality. As far as
labor costs, in some countries, I think a large part of it is cost of living in a certain country and exchange rate with where the company is based. If a company is based in the USA and is paying workers in
India, I think the cost of living in India is lower than the US, and
the exchange rate from US dollars to Indian Rupees is favorable (right now, $1 US = 72.55 Indian Rupees).
Arelor wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: GAB
By: Boraxman to Arelor on
Sat Feb 20 2021 12:17 pm
Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to nooutco
end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this
me.
We dumb ass "consoomers" figured out that cheap imports were cheaper
because they weren't as good, how did these well paid people miss this?
I have a bunch of theories about that.
To be honest, there are many IT dudes in cheapo places who know their trade quite well. If you put somebody to oversee an outsourced
operation with operatives from a developping country it is
theoretically possible to come up with good results.
I think modern corporations have lots of dead weight in the middle
ranks. Redundant Human Resources employees, redundant managers. This people has to keep doing stuff in order to justify their existence. I
have foud there are two main ways they achieve this:
* Pushing Quality Control plans that cost a bunch of money to
implement. This way they can talk to their higher-ups and tell them
they are improving the comapny's Quality. It doesn't matter if the plan
is worthless.
* Pushing Cost Plans, so they can talk to the higher-ups and tell them
how much money they are saving for the company.
Once the company is really optimized, you run out of useful things to
do, so you have to push plans that crank things up to 11. Othersiwe you risk senior managers discovering you are not needed anymore.
So you come up with the idea of moving operations to India - even
knowing you can't possibly improve results doing that - because that
will keep you looking busy for some years.
Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-
So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?
I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao
What makes you think I'm "pretending"? You don't think it's possible
that I know that for certain?
I do not. Mainly because it's not believable. There are a lot of
colleges. You've been to 2 at most, and not to do studies on
their cultures. Your anecdotal story, at best, is based on a
miniscule database of information. Again, I do not believe you.
Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-
My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
in debt.
I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.
Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and
resources to do that for them.
He said that they let their kids stay at their home while the kids went
to college, and fed them. How much money and resources does that require...??
I wonder how many people can do that?
I'd say nearly 100% of people. I mean, the kids were staying/eating
there before they left for college, right?
Oh.. yeah.. 100%! Suuuure. And I'm sure when you look around all
you see if middle class. When was the last time you had to decide
whether to buy groceries or pay rent? Poeple have to make that
decision daily in this country, but you say 100% of Americans can
afford to provided free room and board for their adult children
while they are in college for the next 4 to 6 years? Do you also
think 100% of Texans could just fly to Cancun?
i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone was so excited! except me who said fuck that.
Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good
man down.
"Teflon Don" strikes again.
I'LL BE BOK ;-)
Um.... he's still impeached. They aquitted Clinton, too. He's still impeached.
MRO wrote to Arelor <=-
my company tried outsourcing some of their electronics to india.
Then it comes back to me and i check it with the engineers and we
reject everything. this has happened 3 times already.
it's like they have people making things who have no experience reading blueprints/drawings and zero electronics experience.
whats funny is they tried to change the quote after they thought they
had us.
Obviously "Impeachment" don't mean shit. Just like Biden and his Democrats don't mean shit.Impeachment is the charge. That's ALL it is.
Re: Re: GAB
By: MRO to Denn on Sat Feb 20 2021 12:18 pm
i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone was so excited! except me who said fuck that.
Did you? So did I. What did you do? I did Welding and Machining.
Gamgee wrote to Vague <=-
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Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-
So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?
I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao
What makes you think I'm "pretending"? You don't think it's possible
that I know that for certain?
I do not. Mainly because it's not believable. There are a lot of
colleges. You've been to 2 at most, and not to do studies on
their cultures. Your anecdotal story, at best, is based on a
miniscule database of information. Again, I do not believe you.
You make a lot of erroneous assumptions. I am not basing my statement
on *ONLY* my personal experiences with college. It includes my own
kids, my entire (large) family, my wife's family, and LOTS of friends
and aquaintances. And friends of friends that I talk to. And business people that I deal with. And reading/web material. All of this over
most all the geographical areas of the country.
See?
Gamgee wrote to Vague <=-
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Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-
My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
in debt.
I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.
Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and
resources to do that for them.
He said that they let their kids stay at their home while the kids went
to college, and fed them. How much money and resources does that require...??
I wonder how many people can do that?
I'd say nearly 100% of people. I mean, the kids were staying/eating
there before they left for college, right?
Oh.. yeah.. 100%! Suuuure. And I'm sure when you look around all
you see if middle class. When was the last time you had to decide
whether to buy groceries or pay rent? Poeple have to make that
decision daily in this country, but you say 100% of Americans can
afford to provided free room and board for their adult children
while they are in college for the next 4 to 6 years? Do you also
think 100% of Texans could just fly to Cancun?
<sigh> Your reading comprehension sucks. You need some college (or perhaps high school) remedial education.
I did not say "100% of Americans". You fucking idiot. I was speaking about the kids who went to college (and PAID FOR IT BY WORKING THEIR
WAY THROUGH COLLEGE), who stayed/ate at their parents' house. There weren't any resources used by the parents to send the kids to college. They (the kids) paid for it themselves. That's what the dude said,
right there above!
So, yes. For kids attending college that way, I'm sure that they're parents could house/feed them. I mean, a few months prior, when the
kids were still in high school, they were staying/eating at home,
right?
Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention to what is written,
not what you're imagining.
HusTler wrote to Vague <=-
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Re: Re: GAB
By: Vague to HusTler on Sat Feb 20 2021 06:16 pm
Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good
man down.
"Teflon Don" strikes again.
I'LL BE BOK ;-)
Um.... he's still impeached. They aquitted Clinton, too. He's still impeached.
Obviously "Impeachment" don't mean shit. Just like Biden and his Democrats don't mean shit.
How I can describe it on top of my own country's experience:
[2] All decisions are steered out from the back seat by the party leader who i
turbo catholic, nationalistic wanna be patriot with Poland first attitude but only in the way how he understands or accepts definition of being a good citizen. All other versions of patriotism, national loyalty and value systems that are not approved by him are heavily distriminated publicly and more often
legally
[3] LGBT is chased and officially discredited, top politicians either claim it's a mental sickness or ideology if you're not straight
[8] Conservative supports call liberals 'the lefties', liberals call convervatives 'the nazis' and compare the current movements to NSDAP
[2] All decisions are steered out from the back seat by the party leader whoi
turbo catholic, nationalistic wanna be patriot with Poland first attitudeut
only in the way how he understands or accepts definition of being a good citizen. All other versions of patriotism, national loyalty and valueystems
that are not approved by him are heavily distriminated publicly and moreoften
legally
That doesn't sound too good.
[3] LGBT is chased and officially discredited, top politicians either claim it's a mental sickness or ideology if you're not straight
While I cannot follow them down the rabbit-hole of "there are an
infinite number of genders/sexual identities," I have nothing against people who are "not straight." I doubt they have any more control over being attracted to members of the same sex than I do with being
attracted to women.
Here we sort of have the opposite going... I think we are near the
point where it is going to be expected that young people must go
through a gender identity crisis or there is something wrong with them.
It does not. I loved to be called a patriot and country loving person before. I
liked what I've learnt in US about what I always called 'a positive patriotism'
in contradiction to nationalism. Not I find word patriotism totally overrated.
Here we sort of have the opposite going... I think we are near the
point where it is going to be expected that young people must go
through a gender identity crisis or there is something wrong with them.
I believe our kids generations will go through serious identity crisis for various different reasons if we won't stop bombarding them with information.
The US also used to be known as a melting pot. That is, folks from
other places would come in and assimilate into the society while maybe bring something new into it. At some point, that changed. Some people still do but others want to come in and then have things be the way
they want them, i.e. like they were where they came from.
Sometime after that, it seemed like Americans started becoming less tolerant.
I cannot really blame them.
The US also used to be known as a melting pot. That is, folks from other places would come in and assimilate into the society while maybe bring something new into it. At some point, that changed. Some people still do but others want to come in and then have things be the way they want them, i.e. like they were where they came from.
Sometime after that, it seemed like Americans started becoming less tolerant.
Not everybody likes their city anymore, some have already moved somewhere else >to keep having lifestyle they used to have.
From what I've heard, it sounds like Canada is more of a melting pot now.
Dumas Walker wrote to HOLLOWONE <=-lse
Not everybody likes their city anymore, some have already moved somewhere
to keep having lifestyle they used to have.
You mean the lifestyle where looting is not an acceptable behaviour?
Dumas Walker wrote to HOLLOWONE <=-
@MSGID: <603D5490.22482.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
@REPLY: <603C036E.6483.dove-debate@amigacity.xyz>
It does not. I loved to be called a patriot and country loving person before. I
liked what I've learnt in US about what I always called 'a positive patriotism'
in contradiction to nationalism. Not I find word patriotism totally overrated.
The US also used to be known as a melting pot. That is, folks from
other places would come in and assimilate into the society while maybe bring something new into it. At some point, that changed. Some people still do but others want to come in and then have things be the way
they want them, i.e. like they were where they came from.
Sometime after that, it seemed like Americans started becoming less tolerant.
I cannot really blame them.
Here we sort of have the opposite going... I think we are near the point where it is going to be expected that young people must go through a gender identity crisis or there is something wrong with them.
I believe our kids generations will go through serious identity crisis for various different reasons if we won't stop bombarding them with information.
Indeed.
Multiculturalism doesn't work. Never has. The melting pot was doomed to fail.
It can only work if you accept a small number of people. Once you start to see demographic shifts, its game over.
The USA imported people to a degree which caused demographic shifts, as did many other Western nations. This set off a change from which we will never recover.
hollowone wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
No rather a situation where even a shack barely sizeable to store your bike costs $1M+ sold as real estate, same with rental. City turns into
a place that only high-tech, high-payable jobs can afford living well
and restaurant business was dying long before covid in many neighbourhoods.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
Synchronet Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more
than 4,000+ files
Nightfox wrote to Boraxman <=-
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@REPLY: <603F7882.20625.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Re: Re: GAB
By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on
Wed Mar 03 2021 10:51 pm
Multiculturalism doesn't work. Never has. The melting pot was doomed to fail.
It can only work if you accept a small number of people. Once you start to see demographic shifts, its game over.
The USA imported people to a degree which caused demographic shifts, as did many other Western nations. This set off a change from which we will never recover.
What kinds of changes, from which we will never recover? Honestly I haven't looked into the effects of multiculturalism much myself, but
it's something I've been curious about. From what I've heard, it
sounds like multiculturalism exists in Canada much more than in the US though.
From what I've heard, it sounds like multiculturalism exists
in Canada much more than in the US though.
What kinds of changes, from which we will never recover? Honestly I haven't lo
ked into the effects of multiculturalism much myself, but it's something I've b
en curious about. From what I've heard, it sounds like multiculturalism exists
in Canada much more than in the US though.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to hollowone <=-
hollowone wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
No rather a situation where even a shack barely sizeable to store your bike costs $1M+ sold as real estate, same with rental. City turns into
a place that only high-tech, high-payable jobs can afford living well
and restaurant business was dying long before covid in many neighbourhoods.
When I was in San Francisco in the late 80s, I knew second and third generation families, plumbers, tradesmen, *real* waiters and bartenders (who did it for a living, not just to pay the bills) and coffee
shop/bagel shop owners.
Last time I was there a couple of years ago I saw amazing restaurants I loved empty and a line of food delivery service cars driving into the parking structure of one of the high-rise condos in the area where I
used to work.
What's the point of paying that kind of money to live in a city if
you're not going to explore and enjoy the city?
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