• Re: GAB

    From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dumas Walker on Wed Feb 10 00:05:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to ENNEV <=-

    @MSGID: <6021A2F5.22204.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <60213EAE.11600.dove-debate@mtlgeek.synchro.net>
    Most Americans these days don't realize that authoritarian socialism / communism has a lot more in common with true fascism than anything we have experienced since the end of the Revolutionary War.

    I don't think a true form a communism has even been implemented.

    It always end up to be a dictatorship or an oligarchy in disguise.

    That is the only way to implement it in a government form. You are
    never going to get citizens who have had, or want, personal freedom to agree to being ruled that way. If you have a large section of your populace that won't comply, it will never work.

    Power corrupt.

    that too.

    The problem with Communism, as with Liberalism, is that it presumes itself to be the one correct system, and that it requires universal adoption. Its based on the flawed idea that we should submit to one locus of power, to one institution. That institution will NEVER let go of power.

    One way to support freedom is to not have a single locus of power, but instead multiple powers, mulitple simultaneous sources of power and direction that can be antagonistic. A strong church which might counter the state, a strong union which might counter the industrialists. No single 'ruling elite'. No single estiblishment and definately not having everyone align their values. A multipolar society where no school of thought can gain dominance, and importantly, when individuals are influenced by those mutliple loci of power. When you have what is happening in the US now, the state, Capitalists, the media, Big Tech pushing and enforcing the same values system, the same vision, you get authoritarianism and Communist style oligarchy. Its made worse because people ONLY have their employer in their lives, no strong church of community, and ONLY have Social Media monopolies. Single institutions can monopolise an individuals values system.

    That is where polarisation comes from, self-segregation.

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Tue Feb 9 20:39:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what
    Donald Trump did while in office. I disagree.

    What does your 401(k) have to say on that subject?

    Are you going to give back all the gains because they came as a result of Trump's actions?


    ... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Boraxman on Tue Feb 9 22:45:23 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Tue Feb 09 2021 10:42 pm

    probably won't be laid off. ---

    Thanks to Capitalism, we are all now disposable trash. I wonder why the system is considered dehumanising...


    well, it's a double edged sword. you can ditch your employer and find a better paying job. that's the best way to get better pay. if you're at your current job most likely you wont get too much of a bump. ---

    That is a major hassle, and may involve uprooting your family and moving. People just say "get another job" as if its nothing, but it isn't, not always. Not even often.

    Also, if you are a skilled specialist, its not that easy either. Its not

    all of life is a major hassle. and you have to plan your life right. dont be in an area where there arent jobs. dont plant your family down in a shitty area like that. i live in an area where the jobs are plenty and people dont want to work. i almost jumped jobs a few times but i'm riding it out over this covid shit.

    things arent hopeless, it's not impossible to move to another job if you have decent skills and a background. which you should have by the age 40.

    it's normal to move to another job for better pay. in most cases that's the only way you're going to get it.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Boraxman on Wed Feb 10 01:00:00 2021
    Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    @MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    @REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
    Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm

    Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.

    The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
    government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
    office. I disagree.

    He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
    opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
    is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
    speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?


    And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
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  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Boraxman on Wed Feb 10 01:25:00 2021
    Boraxman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    Dumas Walker wrote to ENNEV <=-

    @MSGID: <6021A2F5.22204.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <60213EAE.11600.dove-debate@mtlgeek.synchro.net>
    Most Americans these days don't realize that authoritarian socialism / communism has a lot more in common with true fascism than anything we have experienced since the end of the Revolutionary War.

    I don't think a true form a communism has even been implemented.

    It always end up to be a dictatorship or an oligarchy in disguise.

    That is the only way to implement it in a government form. You are
    never going to get citizens who have had, or want, personal freedom to agree to being ruled that way. If you have a large section of your populace that won't comply, it will never work.

    Power corrupt.

    that too.

    The problem with Communism, as with Liberalism, is that it presumes
    itself to be the one correct system, and that it requires universal adoption. Its based on the flawed idea that we should submit to one
    locus of power, to one institution. That institution will NEVER let go
    of power.

    One way to support freedom is to not have a single locus of power, but instead multiple powers, mulitple simultaneous sources of power and direction that can be antagonistic. A strong church which might
    counter the state, a strong union which might counter the
    industrialists. No single 'ruling elite'. No single estiblishment and definately not having everyone align their values. A multipolar
    society where no school of thought can gain dominance, and importantly, when individuals are influenced by those mutliple loci of power. When
    you have what is happening in the US now, the state, Capitalists, the media, Big Tech pushing and enforcing the same values system, the same vision, you get authoritarianism and Communist style oligarchy. Its
    made worse because people ONLY have their employer in their lives, no strong church of community, and ONLY have Social Media monopolies.
    Single institutions can monopolise an individuals values system.

    That is where polarisation comes from, self-segregation.

    You're just gonna pretend like you know what you're talking about, aren't you....

    Ok, then.

    You make wild assumptions, find connections where none exists, and ignore factual reality.

    "A multipolar society where no school of thought can gain dominance, and importantly, when individuals are influenced by those mutliple loci of power." HYSTERICAL! Barely relevent terms strung together with rambling. You used an entire paragraph no say nothing.

    Look... you're just an Youtube political scientist/psycholigist. You don't really know what the hell you're talking about and it's really obvious, but I get it.... you still pretend like you do on message boards to feel smart.

    I can't be the first person to call you on your garbage, can I?


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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Dumas Walker on Wed Feb 10 07:15:26 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dumas Walker to DREAM MASTER on Tue Feb 09 2021 04:52 pm

    So it is Reagan's fault that the Communist utopia that was the USSR failed?

    Communist Russia was destined to fall; it was only through the "help" of the West that kickstarted their demise.

    Without outsider intervention, that utopia would continue to exist?

    Communism is not sustainable in the model that Russia took. Look at China. They call themselves Communist but they are something between Socialist and Communist (and it's too early in the morning for me to research its name).

    That is what the East German communists were claiming when people were trying to flee to the West by the thousands. It couldn't have been that their communist utopia was really a poop-hole.

    East Germany was definitely not a fun place to live. Coworkers of mine that were from the east always told me that their lives weren't great as children or young adults. It is definitely enlightening.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Denn on Wed Feb 10 07:17:29 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Denn to Dream Master on Tue Feb 09 2021 07:59 pm

    I look at it this way, I don't get offened usually by someone elses point of view, but on the other hand if someone gets offended by my point of view that's their problem, I won't walk on eggshells so they won't be offended.

    Agreed. I find discussions problematic when the other party starts spouting off nonsensical claims, false narratives, and ideas that cannot be substantiated. When the "other side" starts calling you out and not your claim, picking on your likeness, etc., is the minute I stop reading or listening as it shows they've got nothing.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Boraxman on Wed Feb 10 07:28:15 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Tue Feb 09 2021 10:42 pm

    Also, its far less of a hassle to the employer to lose an employee than vice versa, generally. It's not an equal relationship, not a double edges sword.

    Companies would rather see you walk than pay you more. They'll then hire someone new and pay them more than simply giving you a 4 or 5% raise or increase your bonus percentage.

    Case in point, I was with my previous employer for 20 years. I started off as a "senior" and ended up as a "lead" and I am specialized. When the raise percentages started getting smaller each year and their statement, "You make too much. We can't give you any greater of a percentage," it showed that they didn't care. When I tendered my resignation, my boss went to the CIO and made it clear that they need to retain me. Their statement, "We don't match compensation and his compensation is already too high."

    Cool.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Gamgee on Wed Feb 10 07:54:58 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Tue Feb 09 2021 08:39 pm

    What does your 401(k) have to say on that subject?

    Are you going to give back all the gains because they came as a result of Trump's actions?

    Not my 401k, but my investments. I "leveraged" March and April of last year and made a killing on the market. My 401k has remained healthy. I'll lose everything in taxes seeing that the middle-class got screwed during the last tax law change.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Wed Feb 10 09:50:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to DREAM MASTER <=-

    So it is Reagan's fault that the Communist utopia that was the USSR failed?
    Without outsider intervention, that utopia would continue to exist?

    That is what the East German communists were claiming when people were trying to flee to the West by the thousands. It couldn't have been
    that their communist utopia was really a poop-hole.

    Remember that people like Dream Master are Elites.

    They will say that Venesuela and the USSR weren't "real socialism" or that
    they "didn't do it right" - all implying that the Elites here will "do
    it correctly this time."

    I think that more people would believe socialism could work if the
    Elites could point to ANY place where socialism worked. But they
    refuse to admit that every attempt has failed, horribly and for exactly
    the same reasons: The Elites "in charge" were complete and utter morons.


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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Vague on Wed Feb 10 10:50:14 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Vague to Boraxman on Wed Feb 10 2021 01:00 am

    And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.

    Like CNN? NYT? and other outlets that spew leftist propaganda?
    seems like you're doing exactly what you accuse everyone else of.
    the facts are there for you to look at but you don't.
    you're right on the last sentence, there is no point debating you because you make shciff up as you go.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dr. What on Wed Feb 10 13:27:20 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Wed Feb 10 2021 09:50 am

    I think that more people would believe socialism could work if the
    Elites could point to ANY place where socialism worked. But they
    refuse to admit that every attempt has failed, horribly and for exactly
    the same reasons: The Elites "in charge" were complete and utter morons.

    To Dream Master's credit, Socialism has proven to work. And by that I mean, many Socialist leaders have become powerful and rich by running Socialist regimes. So you could say Socialism has been a working success for people like Castro or Francisco Franco :-)

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Denn on Wed Feb 10 18:31:00 2021
    Denn wrote to Vague <=-

    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Vague to Boraxman on Wed Feb 10 2021 01:00 am

    And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.

    Like CNN? NYT? and other outlets that spew leftist propaganda?
    seems like you're doing exactly what you accuse everyone else of.

    Nope. Your guesses are incorrect.

    the facts are there for you to look at but you don't.
    you're right on the last sentence, there is no point debating you
    because you make shciff up as you go.

    Nope. But I get it: you see something that contradicts what you've been told, so it MUST be false. I understand. That happens to gullible people with confirmation bias.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BORAXMAN on Wed Feb 10 14:39:00 2021
    The problem with Communism, as with Liberalism, is that it presumes itself to >be the one correct system, and that it requires universal adoption. Its based >on the flawed idea that we should submit to one locus of power, to one >institution. That institution will NEVER let go of power.

    That is correct, not without use of excessive force or total colapse.

    That is where polarisation comes from, self-segregation.

    Yes, and the forced segregation of the pandemic has likely made it worse.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you are.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DREAM MASTER on Wed Feb 10 14:44:00 2021
    East Germany was definitely not a fun place to live. Coworkers of mine that we
    e from the east always told me that their lives weren't great as children or yo
    ng adults. It is definitely enlightening.

    Early on anyway, I get the impression that they got a double-whammy because
    if they showed any non-complaince to the Russian occupation, they were
    singled out as Nazi sympathizers and were either ostracized (if they were lucky!), killed, or shipped off somewhere deep in Russia. That continued
    once the "German" government took over, too, except maybe the "shipped off" part.

    I guess it wasn't just the Germans, though. The Polish got beat up pretty
    bad by the Russians, too. In their case, I think it was for being Polish
    more so than possible Nazi sympathizers.


    * SLMR 2.1a * What's another word for Thesaurus?

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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Dr. What on Wed Feb 10 19:58:30 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Wed Feb 10 2021 09:50 am

    Remember that people like Dream Master are Elites.

    Thank you for thinking so highly of me. I'm not an elite, far from it, I simply have differing views than you do.

    They will say that Venesuela and the USSR weren't "real socialism" or that they "didn't do it right" - all implying that the Elites here will "do
    it correctly this time."

    I can't speak for Venezuela but can for the USSR. The fall of the USSR was mostly of their own doing simply by opening the door to Western style elections, allowing outside "influence" (glasnost) to work through their populace, and the restructuring (perestroika) of their internal industry and economy. With state-run media no longer controlling the airwaves, dissent formed creating a major rift in government control.

    Yet, let's return to the real problem. Why not invite change throughout America? Why keep everything the way it is because "it simply works"? The old way doesn't work. We are hellbent on keeping everything the same, we will fall behind on the world stage allowing countries like China to move forward. Is that what you want? Probably not.


    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Wed Feb 10 22:53:00 2021
    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <602364E3.1534.dove-deb@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <60232C25.20311.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Tue Feb 09 2021 10:42 pm

    probably won't be laid off. ---

    Thanks to Capitalism, we are all now disposable trash. I wonder why the system is considered dehumanising...


    well, it's a double edged sword. you can ditch your employer and find a better paying job. that's the best way to get better pay. if you're at your current job most likely you wont get too much of a bump. ---

    That is a major hassle, and may involve uprooting your family and moving. People just say "get another job" as if its nothing, but it isn't, not always. Not even often.

    Also, if you are a skilled specialist, its not that easy either. Its not

    all of life is a major hassle. and you have to plan your life right.
    dont be in an area where there arent jobs. dont plant your family down
    in a shitty area like that. i live in an area where the jobs are
    plenty and people dont want to work. i almost jumped jobs a few times
    but i'm riding it out over this covid shit.

    things arent hopeless, it's not impossible to move to another job if
    you have decent skills and a background. which you should have by the
    age 40.

    it's normal to move to another job for better pay. in most cases that's the only way you're going to get it. ---

    One thing I note about the USA, is how common it is for people to move from state to state, town to town. That its simply the 'done thing' to go elsewhere. That happens far less in Australia.

    Housing is also way unaffordable in Australia. It easy to say "live near work", but you have to be able to afford it. You got a spare million? Yeah, the houses where I grew up cost a million, and my parents weren't rich. So that leave the city fringes, which means that if your next job is the on the other side of the city, you have an unworkable commute. Now that house prices have shot up again, what do you do? They may not even consider you for the job if you don't live with a workable commute distance.

    I have a professional position in a global company, a senior (though not manager), and would still be unable to afford a house near my work, unless my wife was also a working professional. She isn't, I have young children. I have been offered a job as a manager, further from home, and yet I still won't be able to afford to move closer, not unless I do nothing with my life other than pay a mortgage until I'm dead.

    I made the right choices. I studied, got a good job, progressed my career, built up signifcant savings in my 20s (enough so that I could be without work for 2 years without running out), advanced my career, yet everything still goes backwards. Housing is LESS affordable to me, despite my career advancement and salary increases. I had more options when I was a lab monkey 20 years ago, than I would now as a manager.

    What will my children do? The system is failing people. There is nothing to gain apologising for it, defending Capitalism and our economic structure. It time to stop "coping" and "Adapating" like a chump and start pushing for some real change.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Vague on Thu Feb 11 04:13:00 2021
    Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    @REPLY: <60232C2E.20315.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    @MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    @REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
    Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm

    Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.

    The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
    government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
    office. I disagree.

    He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
    opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
    is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
    speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?


    And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
    sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.

    If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to answer at least one of my questions.

    There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed Trump.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dream Master on Thu Feb 11 04:19:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <6023ED7F.1222.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    @REPLY: <60232C25.20311.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Tue
    Feb 09 2021 10:42 pm

    Also, its far less of a hassle to the employer to lose an employee than vice versa, generally. It's not an equal relationship, not a double edges sword.

    Companies would rather see you walk than pay you more. They'll then
    hire someone new and pay them more than simply giving you a 4 or 5%
    raise or increase your bonus percentage.

    Case in point, I was with my previous employer for 20 years. I started off as a "senior" and ended up as a "lead" and I am specialized. When
    the raise percentages started getting smaller each year and their statement, "You make too much. We can't give you any greater of a percentage," it showed that they didn't care. When I tendered my resignation, my boss went to the CIO and made it clear that they need
    to retain me. Their statement, "We don't match compensation and his compensation is already too high."

    Cool.

    Once a company I think decided to pay me significantly more instead of letting me walk, an unrequested pay rise, but I only found out they planned it after I had tendered my resignation. Even then, it didn't match the new job I had.

    Changing jobs is the primary way I've been able to increase my salary. Companies might talk about retention, but HR convinces themselves and execs that pay isn't that important and people don't make decisions to say/leave based on salary...


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Boraxman on Thu Feb 11 19:10:00 2021
    Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/MSRDBBS
    @MSGID: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    @REPLY: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    @REPLY: <60232C2E.20315.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    @MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    @REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
    Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm

    Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.

    The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
    government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
    office. I disagree.

    He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
    opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
    is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
    speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?


    And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
    sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.

    If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to
    answer at least one of my questions.

    There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed
    Trump.

    I though you would understand when I said "There is no point in debating with someone doing that", but I see I was wrong.

    I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.

    One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate you if that's what you want, however.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Thu Feb 11 08:00:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Dr. What <=-

    They will say that Venesuela and the USSR weren't "real socialism" or that they "didn't do it right" - all implying that the Elites here will "do
    it correctly this time."

    I can't speak for Venezuela but can for the USSR. The fall of
    the USSR was mostly of their own doing simply by opening the door
    to Western style elections, allowing outside "influence"
    (glasnost) to work through their populace, and the restructuring (perestroika) of their internal industry and economy. With
    state-run media no longer controlling the airwaves, dissent
    formed creating a major rift in government control.

    Yet, let's return to the real problem. Why not invite change
    throughout America?

    The obvious answer is that change isn't needed. Change for the sake of change is.... idiotic.

    Why keep everything the way it is because "it simply works"?

    You answered it yourself. Because it simply works. That's the goal, isn't
    it? To have something work?

    The old way doesn't work. We are hellbent on keeping everything the
    same, we will fall behind on the world stage allowing countries like
    China to move forward. Is that what you want? Probably not.

    The old way of... what? Governing? Running a country? Of course it works. The old way brought our country from NOT EXISTING to the preeminant world super-power in 200 years. We're still the world super-power. What's not working?

    Sorry, but using "it's not working" as an argument for socialism/communism is.... ummm... not working. Just like socialism/communism doesn't.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Boraxman on Thu Feb 11 23:52:50 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Feb 10 2021 10:53 pm


    What will my children do? The system is failing people. There is nothing to gain apologising for it, defending Capitalism and our economic structure. It time to stop "coping" and "Adapating" like a chump and start pushing for some real change.

    well it's setup on a bad foundation. most people live near the coast and the rest of the country is pretty much unlivable, right?

    if i were you i'd see what the intelligent young people are doing. if what they are doing isnt helping, it's a hopeless situation.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Gamgee on Fri Feb 12 07:02:40 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Thu Feb 11 2021 08:00 am

    The old way of... what? Governing? Running a country? Of course it works. The old way brought our country from NOT EXISTING to the preeminant world super-power in 200 years. We're still the world super-power. What's not working?

    Our Constitutional drafted wanted each citizen to have rights that were unattainable in England. Putting quill to parchment, they wrote a document that was forward thinking, righting the wrongs of America's past, and demonstrating to the world what a Democratic Republic could be. This forward thinking enabled the common man to invent the submarine, cotton gin, interchangable parts, plough, profile lathe, reaping machine, power tools, telegraph, offset printing, cars, airplane, rocket, television, frozen food, and the list goes on and on.

    As we evolve as a people, we must look beyond the traditional methods and look to ways that improve our lives. For example, the invention of the telegraph led to the invention of the phone to the invention of interstate communication to the internet as we know it today. In the same way the drafters of the Constitution knew that changes must take place in our governing document through the Amendment process. This evolution brought us our Bill of Rights. Further to this, this "new way of thinking" allowed us to end slavery, womens suffrage, etc., etc.

    Change is inevitable and moving forward is how we will progress to our next steps. Your claim that America remains a super-power, but of what? Military strength? The strength of a country isn't measured by the number of tanks, missles, and soldiers it has, but of its innovation, its desire to improve the world and its people, and how it strives to bring about positive change not only of itself but of those around it.

    Sorry, but using "it's not working" as an argument for socialism/communism is.... ummm... not working. Just like socialism/communism doesn't.

    So, let's just keep the status quo? It's not working.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Vague on Sat Feb 13 00:22:00 2021
    Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <6025CC0B.799.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    @REPLY: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/MSRDBBS
    @MSGID: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    @REPLY: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    @REPLY: <60232C2E.20315.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    @MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    @REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
    Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm

    Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.

    The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
    government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
    office. I disagree.

    He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
    opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
    is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
    speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?


    And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
    sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.

    If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to
    answer at least one of my questions.

    There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed
    Trump.

    I though you would understand when I said "There is no point in
    debating with someone doing that", but I see I was wrong.

    I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you
    with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.

    One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate you
    if that's what you want, however.


    You come accross as a 17 old who thinks being snarky and pretending to have a moral high ground might convince people of your moral superiority.

    I don't know whats sadder, your lack of self-awareness, or the fact you think you are successfully passing yourself off as anything other than a troll.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Sat Feb 13 00:33:00 2021
    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <602617B2.1594.dove-deb@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <6024CEC5.20384.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Feb 10 2021 10:53 pm


    What will my children do? The system is failing people. There is nothing to gain apologising for it, defending Capitalism and our economic structure. It time to stop "coping" and "Adapating" like a chump and start pushing for some real change.

    well it's setup on a bad foundation. most people live near the coast
    and the rest of the country is pretty much unlivable, right?

    Yeah, pretty much. Australia is actually a very small country in many ways. There are very few large cities, and in those cities, only a small area which isn't just bland suburbs. The actual area of Australia which has culture, good high paying jobs, is really, really small. So everyone is competing to live there.

    if i were you i'd see what the intelligent young people are doing. if
    what they are doing isnt helping, it's a hopeless situation. ---

    Well, some of my friends have moved overseas... Others are living are perpetual adultescents. Others I know are just mooching of parents. Actually, the number of my peers, that is people I grew up with, went to school with and maintained contact with, who have families, is very, very low. A very different situation to my parents generation.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Arelor on Fri Feb 12 09:11:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Dr. What <=-

    To Dream Master's credit, Socialism has proven to work. And by that I mean, many Socialist leaders have become powerful and rich by running Socialist regimes. So you could say Socialism has been a working
    success for people like Castro or Francisco Franco :-)

    Which is why the main cheerleaders here in the U.S. are the worthless Elites. i.e. people who do nothing, but want something for free.


    ... If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to GAMGEE on Fri Feb 12 10:46:00 2021
    Why keep everything the way it is because "it simply works"?

    You answered it yourself. Because it simply works. That's the goal, isn't it? To have something work?

    I thought the goal was to replace things that work, but maybe don't give
    you "the feels," with things that don't work but make you feel good.

    At least, that is what you do if you are one of "the Elite."


    * SLMR 2.1a * Reality-ometer: [\........] Hmmph! Thought so...

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Fri Feb 12 13:18:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Thu Feb 11 2021 08:00 am

    The old way of... what? Governing? Running a country? Of course it works. The old way brought our country from NOT EXISTING to the preeminant world super-power in 200 years. We're still the world super-power. What's not working?

    Our Constitutional drafted wanted each citizen to have rights
    that were unattainable in England. Putting quill to parchment,
    they wrote a document that was forward thinking, righting the
    wrongs of America's past, and demonstrating to the world what a
    Democratic Republic could be. This forward thinking enabled the
    common man to invent the submarine, cotton gin, interchangable
    parts, plough, profile lathe, reaping machine, power tools,
    telegraph, offset printing, cars, airplane, rocket, television,
    frozen food, and the list goes on and on.

    Ummm, yeah. I think I know that.

    As we evolve as a people, we must look beyond the traditional
    methods and look to ways that improve our lives. For example,
    the invention of the telegraph led to the invention of the phone
    to the invention of interstate communication to the internet as
    we know it today. In the same way the drafters of the
    Constitution knew that changes must take place in our governing
    document through the Amendment process. This evolution brought
    us our Bill of Rights. Further to this, this "new way of
    thinking" allowed us to end slavery, womens suffrage, etc., etc.

    Sure, absolutely correct. This kind of change is still going on, and
    should be. I agree completely.

    Change is inevitable and moving forward is how we will progress
    to our next steps. Your claim that America remains a
    super-power, but of what? Military strength? The strength of a
    country isn't measured by the number of tanks, missles, and
    soldiers it has, but of its innovation, its desire to improve the
    world and its people, and how it strives to bring about positive
    change not only of itself but of those around it.

    We are a super-power in those areas too. Absolutely nobody else even
    close.

    Sorry, but using "it's not working" as an argument for socialism/communism is.... ummm... not working. Just like socialism/communism doesn't.

    So, let's just keep the status quo? It's not working.

    Well, we're back where we started... WHAT ISN'T WORKING???

    It seems like we agree that continual change in thought processes is vital,
    and is on-going. What you seem to want to change is the FUNDAMENTAL method
    of our government. Changing from capitalism and a democratic republic to something else. Like socialism or communism. That kind of change is *NOT* what we've been talking about above. So to answer your question... YES,
    just keep the status quo. Hard to understand why you can't see that.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Boraxman on Fri Feb 12 13:30:00 2021
    Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-

    I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you
    with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.

    One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate you
    if that's what you want, however.


    You come accross as a 17 old who thinks being snarky and
    pretending to have a moral high ground might convince people of
    your moral superiority.

    I don't know whats sadder, your lack of self-awareness, or the
    fact you think you are successfully passing yourself off as
    anything other than a troll.


    100% agreed. He's a loser troll, for sure. Best to just ignore.


    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Gamgee on Fri Feb 12 16:02:26 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Fri Feb 12 2021 01:18 pm

    It seems like we agree that continual change in thought processes is vital, and is on-going. What you seem to want to change is the FUNDAMENTAL method of our government. Changing from capitalism and a democratic republic to something else. Like socialism or communism. That kind of change is *NOT* what we've been talking about above. So to answer your question... YES, just keep the status quo. Hard to understand why you can't see that.

    Our government isn't working--it's too polar. Instead of working together and finding someplace in the middle that works, you have each group that resists anything even remotely forward. This is my problem. As a country, we can't even work together, we can't even agree on what's best for everyone. You have one side trying to take rights away from one group and another whos is trying to force change on the other.

    Ultimately, I just want to see consensus in our government. I'm tired of the same shit different day way of governing. It's tiring and isn't getting a thing done.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Boraxman on Fri Feb 12 18:26:52 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to Vague on Sat Feb 13 2021 12:22 am

    And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
    sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your
    position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.

    If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to
    answer at least one of my questions.

    There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the
    government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed
    Trump.

    I though you would understand when I said "There is no point in
    debating with someone doing that", but I see I was wrong.

    I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you
    with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.

    One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate
    you
    if that's what you want, however.


    You come accross as a 17 old who thinks being snarky and pretending to have a moral high ground might convince people of your moral superiority.

    I was thinking more like a 13 year old.

    ---
    Synchronet outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Gamgee on Fri Feb 12 18:37:12 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Boraxman on Fri Feb 12 2021 01:30 pm

    I don't know whats sadder, your lack of self-awareness, or the
    fact you think you are successfully passing yourself off as
    anything other than a troll.


    100% agreed. He's a loser troll, for sure. Best to just ignore.

    I already added him to the .can

    ---
    Synchronet outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Fri Feb 12 19:25:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-

    It seems like we agree that continual change in thought processes is vital, and is on-going. What you seem to want to change is the FUNDAMENTAL method of our government. Changing from capitalism and a democratic republic to something else. Like socialism or communism. That kind of change is *NOT* what we've been talking about above. So to answer your question... YES, just keep the status quo. Hard to understand why you can't see that.

    Our government isn't working--it's too polar. Instead of working

    I got news for you - it's always been polar. That's why it works. The system keeps one side from being able to just force it's ways down the throats of the other side. It's the very definition of democracy.

    together and finding someplace in the middle that works, you have
    each group that resists anything even remotely forward. This is
    my problem. As a country, we can't even work together, we can't
    even agree on what's best for everyone. You have one side trying
    to take rights away from one group and another whos is trying to
    force change on the other.

    It may be a little more polarized now than in times past. Things have a way of

    self-correcting, after a while. This system has worked for 240+ years and there's no valid reason (other than desiring absolute power for "your" side) that it would need to be changed.

    Ultimately, I just want to see consensus in our government. I'm
    tired of the same shit different day way of governing. It's
    tiring and isn't getting a thing done.

    Consensus, as long as the result is what your side wants, right?

    That's not consensus, that's communism/dictatorship. No thanks. I hear airplane flights to Venezuela (socialist paradise) are quite cheap at the moment. Perhaps you'd be happier there?



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dumas Walker on Fri Feb 12 19:40:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

    Why keep everything the way it is because "it simply works"?

    You answered it yourself. Because it simply works. That's the goal, isn't it? To have something work?

    I thought the goal was to replace things that work, but maybe
    don't give you "the feels," with things that don't work but make
    you feel good.

    At least, that is what you do if you are one of "the Elite."

    Exactly. That includes every single congress-critter with a (D) after their names. They're "elite", at least in their own minds.

    Change for the sake of change. "Social Justice Warriors".



    ... Behind every great man is an amazed mother-in-law!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dream Master on Sat Feb 13 12:56:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-

    @MSGID: <60268A80.1285.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    @REPLY: <6025E77C.4094.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on
    Thu Feb 11 2021 08:00 am

    The old way of... what? Governing? Running a country? Of course it works. The old way brought our country from NOT EXISTING to the preeminant world super-power in 200 years. We're still the world super-power. What's not working?

    Our Constitutional drafted wanted each citizen to have rights that were unattainable in England. Putting quill to parchment, they wrote a document that was forward thinking, righting the wrongs of America's
    past, and demonstrating to the world what a Democratic Republic could
    be. This forward thinking enabled the common man to invent the
    submarine, cotton gin, interchangable parts, plough, profile lathe, reaping machine, power tools, telegraph, offset printing, cars,
    airplane, rocket, television, frozen food, and the list goes on and on.

    As we evolve as a people, we must look beyond the traditional methods
    and look to ways that improve our lives. For example, the invention of the telegraph led to the invention of the phone to the invention of interstate communication to the internet as we know it today. In the
    same way the drafters of the Constitution knew that changes must take place in our governing document through the Amendment process. This evolution brought us our Bill of Rights. Further to this, this "new
    way of thinking" allowed us to end slavery, womens suffrage, etc., etc.

    Change is inevitable and moving forward is how we will progress to our next steps. Your claim that America remains a super-power, but of
    what? Military strength? The strength of a country isn't measured by
    the number of tanks, missles, and soldiers it has, but of its
    innovation, its desire to improve the world and its people, and how it strives to bring about positive change not only of itself but of those around it.

    Sorry, but using "it's not working" as an argument for socialism/communism is.... ummm... not working. Just like socialism/communism doesn't.

    So, let's just keep the status quo? It's not working.

    Many who want to change the constitution want to install an authoritarian system. They want to remove individual liberty, and make the US more statist, give authority more power and make people more beholden to institutions.

    That is not good. EVER.

    Some principles are timeless. That freedom creates more prosperity and human happiness than rule by closed instituions is always true. That a balance of power prevents tyranny is always true. That privacy and freedom from intrusion helps liberty, is ALWAYS true.

    I simply do not believe that things like the right to self defence, to freedom of speech, to a fair trial and due process, to people having the right to change their government and change their ruling elite can ever, ever go "obsolete".

    Sure, maybe some minor specifics can be tweaked, but people are calling into question basic freedoms. They want CONTROL, nothing more, and that always ends badly.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Gamgee on Fri Feb 12 23:05:45 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Fri Feb 12 2021 07:25 pm

    That's not consensus, that's communism/dictatorship. No thanks. I hear airplane flights to Venezuela (socialist paradise) are quite cheap at the moment. Perhaps you'd be happier there?

    I've been to many countries throughout the world and find Chile and Canada to be my two favorites. You call me a communist but I call myself a socialist simply because I believe everyone should be entitled to a good quality life.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Boraxman on Fri Feb 12 21:57:00 2021
    Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/MSRDBBS
    @MSGID: <602684CC.20407.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    @REPLY: <6025CC0B.799.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <6025CC0B.799.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    @REPLY: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Boraxman wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/MSRDBBS
    @MSGID: <6024CEC8.20386.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    @REPLY: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    Vague wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <60237E94.734.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    @REPLY: <60232C2E.20315.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Dream Master wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    @MSGID: <60229558.1185.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    @REPLY: <6021BC3D.4828.dove-debate@roughneckbbs.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Tracker1 to Dream Master on
    Mon Feb 08 2021 03:33 pm

    Maybe step away from MSNBC and Vox news for a couple days. You've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims that aren't really backed by anything of substance.

    The claims I made come from many reliable sources, not MSNBC or VOX. Ultimately, our opinions and facts will always be viewed negatively by those who share a contrary view. Donald Trump modeled the US
    government after a closely held business that did not permit thought outside of what the Chief Executive wished. At the end of the day, you can either disagree or agree with what Donald Trump did while in
    office. I disagree.

    He may have modelled the US government that way, but not the US itself, which is what matters. The authoritarian mindset that Trumps
    opposition has, wants to use an authoritarian model EVERYHWERE. That
    is far worse. I ask people who claim Trump is a fascist what Trump has done to take away, or threaten, or limit, or punish them for their
    speech, and there is nothing. Were people banned from Social Media for claiming that Trump is Russian asset, that the 2016 election was rigged (this claim was prevalent then too)?


    And you are already fully aware of all the facts, resources and
    sources, but refuse to acknowledge them because they contradict your position. There is no point in debating with someone doing that.

    If the "facts, resources and sources" were there, you'd be able to
    answer at least one of my questions.

    There is nothing there, don't bluff. Point to examples where the government clamped down on private citizens who peacefully opposed
    Trump.

    I though you would understand when I said "There is no point in
    debating with someone doing that", but I see I was wrong.

    I'm talking about you. So no, I'm not wasting my time presenting you
    with evidence you will ignore no matter how valid it is.

    One more time for the dense, I will not debate you. I will berate you
    if that's what you want, however.


    You come accross as a 17 old who thinks being snarky and pretending to have a moral high ground might convince people of your moral
    superiority.

    I don't know whats sadder, your lack of self-awareness, or the fact you think you are successfully passing yourself off as anything other than
    a troll.

    What's sadder? You, a grown adult, willfully retelling lies as if you're meritless voice had the gravatas to impart truth on it over objective reality. Or is it that you believe these lies despite any verifiable facts, sources, and resources that you are presented with? You will probably say something like "tHeY'rE nOt vErIfIaBlE fAcTs" due to your confirmation bias. I'm using a bunch of terminology you probably should look up, but you won't.

    Anyway... cool story you go there, Bro. Good times. Wear you mask.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Sat Feb 13 07:21:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-

    That's not consensus, that's communism/dictatorship. No thanks. I hear airplane flights to Venezuela (socialist paradise) are quite cheap at the moment. Perhaps you'd be happier there?

    I've been to many countries throughout the world and find Chile
    and Canada to be my two favorites.

    I've also travelled the world quite extensively. I find the USA to be my favorite.

    You call me a communist but I call myself a socialist simply because
    I believe everyone should be entitled to a good quality life.

    Oh, I also believe that, assuming the person is willing to work towards that goal, and put in some effort of their own to achieve it. You used the key word

    - "entitled". If I hadn't seen you post your rough age, I'd have thought you were part of the millenial/entitlement generation. You sure act like you are.

    Certainly you realize that the USA is neither a socialist nor a communist country, right? So if you are a socialist, why don't you move somewhere that would suit your beliefs better? I promise you that you and AOC/Bernie are not going to turn the USA into a socialist utopia like Venezuela.


    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Gamgee on Sat Feb 13 11:45:27 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Sat Feb 13 2021 07:21 am

    Oh, I also believe that, assuming the person is willing to work towards that goal, and put in some effort of their own to achieve it. You used the key word - "entitled". If I hadn't seen you post your rough age, I'd have thought you were part of the millenial/entitlement generation. You sure act like you are.

    Ah, thank you! You said it right there, "...willing to work towards that goal, and put in some effort of their own to achieve it." Again, our free market economy makes it impossible for those who don't make enough to afford to live, obtain quality healthcare, and be in a position to retire at 65, 67, or even 70. You preordain that everyone should work towards some mysterious goal making an undefined amount of money thus defines their acheivement. But that's the problem you fail to grasp. It's not always possible.

    Let's name our example Suzy. She's 18, just finished high school with a 3.0 GPA. Her parents are lower middle class, making a combined income of $70,000/year pre-tax putting them in the 12% tax bracket. Suzy's parents can't afford to take out PLUS loans to pay for her education at the local college; therefore, Suzy must take out student loans to pay for her education. Suzy chooses, wisely, to live at home. Suzy wants to be an English teacher and graduates college with a BA in English. She is saddled with $37,640 in student loan debt (College Costs, College Board, Public Four-Year College, In State) and chooses a graduated repayment plan over 10 years. She applies and as is hired by the local school district as a high school English teacher. She is 22.

    Suzy is single, getting paid $37,691/year pre-tax. Her school district has medical insurance options, costing her $595/mo. Her yealy income before taxes is $30,551. She is taxed at 12% of her gross yearly take home, $3666, leaving her net yearly take home of $26,885.

    Suzy's parents decide to move out of state and she must find a place to live. Rent is approximately $1,621/mo for a one bedroom apartment (rent.com, Average Rent Prices in 2020). She signs the lease. Suzy is now paying $19,452/year in rent. She has a remainder of $7,433 left per year. She has $619/mo to live on.

    This is the problem in America.

    Can you live on $691/mo?

    Don't forget groceries, utilities, gas for her car (her parents gave her), car insurance, and repayment of her student loan.

    This is precisely why it is impossible for people to make it in this country. You can sit here all day debating the numbers but the fact remains: the numbers don't lie.

    Socialized healthcare, exactly what retirees, veterans, and disabled get, would increase Suzy's $691/mo to over $1,200/mo, a more manageable amount being that she is single.

    Is she successful? Yes, in my book. She has a career and is doing something positive for society. Can she afford to live? No.

    'nuff said.


    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vague on Sat Feb 13 15:20:48 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Vague to Boraxman on Fri Feb 12 2021 09:57 pm

    if you're going to troll people here, you're going to use more
    than your internet fuckboi grab bag.

    examples:

    something like "tHeY'rE nOt vErIfIaBlE fAcTs" due to your confirmation bias.

    i notice this new thing with them mixing case in a mocking manner to say the person is retarded or whatever. boring and played out.



    Anyway... cool story you go there, Bro. Good times. Wear you mask.

    i cant believe you went with 'cool story, bro'


    anyways, you are boring and pretty soon people won't even reply to you.
    so shape up or ship out, amature.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Sat Feb 13 18:30:59 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Gamgee on Sat Feb 13 2021 11:45 am

    Let's name our example Suzy. She's 18, just finished high school with a 3.0 GPA. Her parents are lower middle class, making a combined income of $70,000/year pre-tax putting them in the 12% tax bracket. Suzy's parents can afford to take out PLUS loans to pay for her education at the local college; therefore, Suzy must take out student loans to pay for her education. Suzy chooses, wisely, to live at home. Suzy wants to be an English teacher and graduates college with a BA in English. She is saddled with $37,640 in stud loan debt (College Costs, College Board, Public Four-Year College, In State) and chooses a graduated repayment plan over 10 years. She applies and as is hired by the local school district as a high school English teacher. She is 22.

    Impopular opinion here.

    If education is not payable you should not be paying it and do something else instead.

    The fact we have so many degreed people doing unqualified jobs should tell us to stop getting degrees, but we keep telling people that they are only gonna be successful if they get a degree. Which is a lie.

    In fact this is a problem I have with socialized education programs. We waste everybody's money creating professionals (or "professionals") we don't need, which then we have to export or recycle for menial tasks.

    In the end of the day we get degreed people earning shit (because there is so many of them) after we spent thousands of tax money giving them their degree.

    MRO said you have to plan your life in order not to screw up. I think planing to get a biology degree in a community with lots of biologists and no need for yet another biologist _is_ planing to screw up.

    I _*HATE*_ this modern cultural trend that makes people believe that they need college education to be somebody, and thus pushes to get everybody college educated. Because it leads to this sort of situation in which you spend thousands of bucks (either yours or the tax payer's) in order to get a job that will never be able to pay itself back.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Sat Feb 13 19:54:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Oh, I also believe that, assuming the person is willing to work towards that goal, and put in some effort of their own to achieve it. You used the key word - "entitled". If I hadn't seen you post your rough age, I'd have thought you were part of the millenial/entitlement generation. You sure act like you are.

    Ah, thank you! You said it right there, "...willing to work
    towards that goal, and put in some effort of their own to achieve
    it." Again, our free market economy makes it impossible for
    those who don't make enough to afford to live, obtain quality
    healthcare, and be in a position to retire at 65, 67, or even 70.
    You preordain that everyone should work towards some mysterious
    goal making an undefined amount of money thus defines their
    acheivement. But that's the problem you fail to grasp. It's not
    always possible.

    Sure it is. What you still fail to grasp is the simple truth that not everything is "EQUAL" for everybody. Some will retire at 50, some at
    70, most somewhere between those ages. Not everybody will be able to
    afford the same lifestyle in retirement, just exactly as they don't
    during working years. You live within your means and you get by.

    Let's name our example Suzy. She's 18, just finished high school
    with a 3.0 GPA. Her parents are lower middle class, making a
    combined income of $70,000/year pre-tax putting them in the 12%
    tax bracket. Suzy's parents can't afford to take out PLUS loans
    to pay for her education at the local college; therefore, Suzy
    must take out student loans to pay for her education. Suzy
    chooses, wisely, to live at home. Suzy wants to be an English
    teacher and graduates college with a BA in English. She is
    saddled with $37,640 in student loan debt (College Costs, College
    Board, Public Four-Year College, In State) and chooses a
    graduated repayment plan over 10 years. She applies and as is
    hired by the local school district as a high school English
    teacher. She is 22.

    Suzy is single, getting paid $37,691/year pre-tax. Her school
    district has medical insurance options, costing her $595/mo. Her
    yealy income before taxes is $30,551. She is taxed at 12% of her
    gross yearly take home, $3666, leaving her net yearly take home
    of $26,885.

    Suzy's parents decide to move out of state and she must find a
    place to live. Rent is approximately $1,621/mo for a one bedroom apartment (rent.com, Average Rent Prices in 2020). She signs the
    lease. Suzy is now paying $19,452/year in rent. She has a
    remainder of $7,433 left per year. She has $619/mo to live on.

    That "average" monthly rent is ridiculously high. Maybe it's average in
    NYC or LA or whatever, but not in small-town America.

    This is the problem in America.

    Can you live on $691/mo?

    I wouldn't WANT to, but I could, if I was single. Probably DID, when I
    was that age and single.

    Don't forget groceries, utilities, gas for her car (her parents
    gave her), car insurance, and repayment of her student loan.

    This is precisely why it is impossible for people to make it in
    this country. You can sit here all day debating the numbers but
    the fact remains: the numbers don't lie.

    Socialized healthcare, exactly what retirees, veterans, and
    disabled get, would increase Suzy's $691/mo to over $1,200/mo, a
    more manageable amount being that she is single.

    Is she successful? Yes, in my book. She has a career and is
    doing something positive for society. Can she afford to live?
    No.

    Your fantasy example leaves out a lot of things. Many young folks help themselves get by in their early years by having roommates and so on.
    Also, as I said above, living within your means goes a long ways. In
    case you didn't know, a person's earnings do not peak at age 22.

    Anyway, what's your solution to the evil scenario that America presents
    to young people? It's to change the entire fundamental nature of
    America itself into some socialist/communist fantasy world where
    everyone's needs are met and handled by the government? Would Suzy be
    so much better off in that world? Would Suzy be lower middle class in Venezuela? You know, the Venezuela that is a socialist paradise? How
    are those folks doing these days? Are 22 year olds living high on the
    hog in Euro-commmie land these days? No debts, no worries over there?

    Your boy Bernie tried to sell America on this, and got shut down quite strongly. Even his own party knew he was a fruitcake.



    ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to MRO on Sat Feb 13 19:41:43 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: MRO to Vague on Sat Feb 13 2021 03:20 pm

    *
    if you're going to troll people here, you're going to use more
    than your internet fuckboi grab bag.
    examples:

    something like "tHeY'rE nOt vErIfIaBlE fAcTs" due to your confirmation
    bias.

    i notice this new thing with them mixing case in a mocking manner to say the person is retarded or whatever. boring and played out.



    Anyway... cool story you go there, Bro. Good times. Wear you mask.

    i cant believe you went with 'cool story, bro'

    I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
    I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"
    He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim Smith.

    ---
    Synchronet outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Al on Sat Feb 13 18:26:18 2021
    On 2/8/2021 4:45 PM, Al wrote:
    Okay, so there's one person in your entire list. Is there evidence
    Maria Butina was operating directly under instruction from Trump?

    I don't know. I didn't prosecute or attend the proceedings.

    I am just saying it is not a hoax.

    I'm not saying there wasn't russian attempts at interference, or china,
    or syria and israel for that matter..

    The hoax is that Trump had anything to do with it.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan (tracker1)
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Tracker1 on Sat Feb 13 21:19:30 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Tracker1 to Al on Sat Feb 13 2021 06:26 pm

    I am just saying it is not a hoax.

    I'm not saying there wasn't russian attempts at interference, or china, or syria and israel for that matter..

    The hoax is that Trump had anything to do with it.

    I'm not so sure of anything trump says or does anymore.

    He called it both a witch hunt and a hoax, along with climate change and the coronavirus.

    Trump (or any president) doesn't need to be well liked. If he'd pay attention to needful things he could likely could have stayed for a second term.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Math problems? Call 1-800-10*(24+13)-(64-16)/2^14E2.

    ---
    Synchronet The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Al on Sun Feb 14 07:54:08 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Al to Tracker1 on Sat Feb 13 2021 09:19 pm

    Trump (or any president) doesn't need to be well liked. If he'd pay attentio to needful things he could likely could have stayed for a second term.

    Ttyl :-),

    He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them. BTW. Mr. Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.

    ... Everyone has his day, and some days last longer than others.

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to HusTler on Sun Feb 14 09:01:27 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: HusTler to Al on Sun Feb 14 2021 07:54 am

    He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them.

    I hope not!

    BTW. Mr. Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.

    Yeah, at least senate republican's are consistent.

    Donald Trump also accomplished something else he never did before. He got the popular vote!

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Is man one of God's blunders or is god one of Man's blunders?

    ---
    Synchronet The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Sun Feb 14 10:25:00 2021
    MRO said you have to plan your life in order not to screw up. I think planing >to get a biology degree in a community with lots of biologists and no need for >yet another biologist _is_ planing to screw up.

    100% correct. Problem is that you cannot convince most people that (1) you need a degree (as you pointed out, (2) the government should pay for it,
    and (3) everyone should be able to choose what they degree in and be happy.

    #3 is only possible in utopia, which is fantasy land. If you are not practical picking your degree, you have no business going to college. If
    you do, you will likely get stuck in some unsatisfying job that does not
    use much, if any, of your degree knowledge BUT that needs doing.

    Something folks who push degrees, and some form of collective/socialist/whatever-you-want-to-call-it utopia don't seem to understand that there are a lot of jobs that "need doing" that don't
    require a degree. Someone has to do them. If all you have is elitists who think they should only be doing the job in the field their degree was in
    (their impractical to begin with degree), those jobs that "need doing"
    don't get done.

    I don't care if you are in the "evil" western capitalist society or in the utopia they think is possible, your society will NOT WORK if there are not folks willing to do what needs doing and not seeing those jobs as "beneath them."

    I believe the only way you get there is not by pushing kids towards
    impractical degrees but instead teaching them to be happy as themselves.

    The best way to start down this path is by removing the government
    guarantee on student loans. If the kid wants to major in basket weaving,
    and basket weaving is not in demand, they are high risk and don't get the
    loan. That sounds "mean" but, in the long run, is it any meaner than
    sending them on to college to get that meaningless degree and rack up incredible debt that they will never be able to pay off with whatever job
    that meaningless degree gets them?

    IMHO, filling their heads full of crap, and keeping their pockets empty the rest of their lives, is much meaner than telling them "no" up front.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Isn't this where....

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to GAMGEE on Sun Feb 14 10:27:00 2021
    Sure it is. What you still fail to grasp is the simple truth that not everything is "EQUAL" for everybody. Some will retire at 50, some at
    70, most somewhere between those ages. Not everybody will be able to
    afford the same lifestyle in retirement, just exactly as they don't
    during working years. You live within your means and you get by.

    I am eligible to retire from my current employment in my 50's. To do so, I will need to tighten my belt some. If I am not willing to do so, I won't
    be able to afford retirement until my 60's or 70's.

    I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to grasp. Those
    that don't want to make any sacrifices are not going to be able to retire
    in their 50s/60s.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Did you open the Microwave door before the 'ding'"?

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DENN on Sun Feb 14 10:28:00 2021
    I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
    I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative
    and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"
    He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim Smith.

    I have a feeling there are many places on this net where Vague's posts no longer show up.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to TRACKER1 on Sun Feb 14 10:29:00 2021
    I'm not saying there wasn't russian attempts at interference, or china,
    or syria and israel for that matter..

    The hoax is that Trump had anything to do with it.

    Bingo.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Mmmmmmmm.....doughnuts."

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dumas Walker on Sun Feb 14 14:08:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

    Sure it is. What you still fail to grasp is the simple truth that not everything is "EQUAL" for everybody. Some will retire at 50, some at
    70, most somewhere between those ages. Not everybody will be able to
    afford the same lifestyle in retirement, just exactly as they don't
    during working years. You live within your means and you get by.

    I am eligible to retire from my current employment in my 50's.
    To do so, I will need to tighten my belt some. If I am not
    willing to do so, I won't be able to afford retirement until my
    60's or 70's.

    Exactly. Living beyond your means (which for the Dems and millenials
    in the crowd means having excessive debt) means a delayed retirement
    until that debt can be paid back. It's really quite simple actually.

    I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to
    grasp. Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not
    going to be able to retire in their 50s/60s.

    Indeed. I'm afraid many of the recent generation (or two) will be in
    for a rude awakening when they reach middle age. Lack of prior planning
    will be a huge problem for many of them.

    <SHRUG>



    ... Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Sun Feb 14 14:47:32 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Denn to MRO on Sat Feb 13 2021 07:41 pm


    I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
    I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"

    yeah he will be going into the twat filter too. i should write a script to make it easier for me.

    he was making me feel like i was on facebook again.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Sun Feb 14 15:00:23 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dumas Walker to DENN on Sun Feb 14 2021 10:28 am

    I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
    I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative
    and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"
    He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim Smith.

    I have a feeling there are many places on this net where Vague's posts no longer show up.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!

    that's fine though, that's how it works. people that want to read what he posts can do it, others that dont, dont.

    that's why the system works.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Al on Sun Feb 14 13:02:34 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Al to Tracker1 on Sat Feb 13 2021 09:19 pm

    I'm not so sure of anything trump says or does anymore.

    He called it both a witch hunt and a hoax, along with climate change and the coronavirus.

    Trump (or any president) doesn't need to be well liked. If he'd pay attention to needful things he could likely could have stayed for a second term.

    Right there. You said it perfectly. Donald Trump chose to call whatever wasn't popular to him and his followers a "Witch Hunt" and a "Hoax". Whether this was COVID-19, Climate Change, the Economy, whatever, that's how he communicated.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to HusTler on Sun Feb 14 13:03:05 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: HusTler to Al on Sun Feb 14 2021 07:54 am

    He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them. BTW. Mr. Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.

    "Teflon Don" strikes again.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Dumas Walker on Sun Feb 14 18:05:55 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dumas Walker to DENN on Sun Feb 14 2021 10:28 am

    I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
    I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is
    conservative and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the
    SAND" He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim
    Smith.

    I have a feeling there are many places on this net where Vague's posts no longer show up.

    That's a bet I would not take:)
    at least with Dream Master you get a debate, I respect his opinions.

    ---
    Synchronet outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Mon Feb 15 10:30:00 2021
    MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    @MSGID: <60298F67.1648.dove-deb@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <60294892.22364.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dumas Walker to DENN on Sun Feb 14 2021 10:28 am

    I already added him to my .can so I don't see any of his post's
    I don't mind someone debating, but when you troll everyone that is conservative
    and act holier than thou, I draw the "RED LINE in the SAND"
    He's the 2nd person I put in the .can, the 1st was our buddy Tim Smith.

    I have a feeling there are many places on this net where Vague's posts no longer show up.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!

    that's fine though, that's how it works. people that want to read what
    he posts can do it, others that dont, dont.

    .CAN?

    Is this an individual option to block peoples posts? First I'm hearing of this.


    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dream Master on Sun Feb 14 19:03:11 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Al on Sun Feb 14 2021 01:02 pm

    Right there. You said it perfectly. Donald Trump chose to call whatever wasn't popular to him and his followers a "Witch Hunt" and a "Hoax".

    Donald Trump is a showman, and he put on one hell of a show.

    Whether this was COVID-19, Climate Change, the Economy, whatever, that's how he communicated.

    Yep, this is what Joe Biden walked into, I've never seen such a mess before.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Politics = Poly(many) + tics(blood sucking parasites)

    ---
    Synchronet The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Boraxman on Sun Feb 14 21:59:19 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Mon Feb 15 2021 10:30 am

    he posts can do it, others that dont, dont.

    .CAN?

    Is this an individual option to block peoples posts? First I'm hearing of this.


    only sysops can. if you have an offline reader that supports it, you can go that route.
    ---
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  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Dream Master on Mon Feb 15 07:22:40 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to HusTler on Sun Feb 14 2021 01:03 pm

    He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them. BTW. Mr.
    Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.

    "Teflon Don" strikes again.

    I'LL BE BOK ;-)

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to GAMGEE on Mon Feb 15 14:42:00 2021
    I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to
    grasp. Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not
    going to be able to retire in their 50s/60s.

    Indeed. I'm afraid many of the recent generation (or two) will be in
    for a rude awakening when they reach middle age. Lack of prior planning
    will be a huge problem for many of them.

    One thing I cannot fully disagree with Democrats/the left on is that the
    lack of proper, prior planning by previous generations, like their parents
    or those who threw money at them when they were "earning" a useless degree
    and building crushing debts, is eventually going to come back and bite
    those future adults who had no hand in those prior decisions.

    I don't agree with their fix... throw more good money after bad... though.
    I think the fix is to stop throwing any more money at it and changing how things are done to make it more difficult to build that debt to begin with.

    "Free college," unless that involves forcing students to get practical educations and changing the limits based on work force demand, is not the
    way to fix it.


    * SLMR 2.1a * A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man. -J.Springfield

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 08:37:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to ARELOR <=-

    Something folks who push degrees, and some form of collective/socialist/whatever-you-want-to-call-it utopia don't seem to understand that there are a lot of jobs that "need doing" that don't require a degree.

    Oh, no. They are quite well aware of that. But convincing people that degrees are "needed" they:
    1. Funnel lots of money into colleges, that are cesspools of useless Lefties
    2. Puts kids/parents into debt, which makes them more dependant on the gov't handouts.
    3. Puts more kids into the Leftie indocrination centers that many of our universities have become.

    I don't care if you are in the "evil" western capitalist society or in
    the utopia they think is possible, your society will NOT WORK if there
    are not folks willing to do what needs doing and not seeing those jobs
    as "beneath them."

    The Elites look upon those non-degree jobs with scorn because they are "beneath" them. In reality those kinds of jobs require skill and knowledge
    and are completely beyond the ability of the Elites to do. But Elites
    **need** to believe that they are better.

    I believe the only way you get there is not by pushing kids towards impractical degrees but instead teaching them to be happy as
    themselves.

    Mike Rowe Works Foundation.

    IMHO, filling their heads full of crap, and keeping their pockets empty the rest of their lives, is much meaner than telling them "no" up
    front.

    But that's what the Lefties want: People as useless as themselves, but
    think that they are better than the people who actually **DO** something.
    And feeling mad because the local plumber is making better money than they do.


    ... Do ya really believe her when she says size don't matter?
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 08:58:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

    I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to grasp.
    Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not going to be able
    to retire in their 50s/60s.

    Even 30-40 years ago, financial planning was NOT something that was commonly taught in the schools. Luckily, my parents did a good job of that with me.

    But I know that today, such education is not commonplace at all.


    ... Take no prisoners, we can't feed them.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Gamgee on Tue Feb 16 09:00:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    Exactly. Living beyond your means (which for the Dems and millenials
    in the crowd means having excessive debt) means a delayed retirement
    until that debt can be paid back. It's really quite simple actually.

    It means being very dependant on the gov't handouts when you are in
    retirement. It's all part of the Plantation scheme that the Dems have
    to create large groups of people who will ALWAYS vote Democrat to keep
    their handouts coming.


    ... Insomnia isn't anything to lose sleep over.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 09:21:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

    I don't agree with their fix... throw more good money after bad...
    though. I think the fix is to stop throwing any more money at it and changing how things are done to make it more difficult to build that
    debt to begin with.

    I think you are looking at this the wrong way.

    Everyone knows that throwing good money after bad won't solve the problem,
    so I think we can assume that solving the problem is **not** the goal.

    So what happens when we just "throw money at the problem"?

    1. We get a bunch of worthless Leftie "professors" in worthless Leftie colleges who get to continue making a living doing nothing useful.
    Benefit: Lefties.
    2. We get a bunch of people who are saddled with debt and have a useless
    degree that's not worth anything. These people are dependant on the gov't,
    mad at the fact that they "have a degree" but the high paying job that
    they were promised never materalized and have the time and hatred to
    smash buildings and riot.
    Benefit: Lefties.
    3. Those colleges, who are flush with money for producing nothing but brainwashed morons, donate back to the Democrat establishment.
    Benefit: Lefties.

    So why would the Lefties want to fix this? It benefits them all around.


    ... Luxuriantly hand-crafted from only the finest ASCII.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Tue Feb 16 17:52:35 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 2021 08:37 am

    The Elites look upon those non-degree jobs with scorn because they are "beneath" them. In reality those kinds of jobs require skill and knowledge and are completely beyond the ability of the Elites to do. But Elites **need** to believe that they are better.

    I believe the only way you get there is not by pushing kids towards


    i was the supervisor of a cleaning crew at a big well known company. this was my part time job, 4pm to 9pm.

    the workers there treated us like total shit. they reported us every day, made up total lies.

    cleaning a huge place in a small amount of time takes a lot of skill. it takes a lot of time management skill. you have to be very organized. a lot of these workers who thought they were better than us were berated constantly for not having these attributes.
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 21:59:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

    @MSGID: <602ADF73.22397.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <60298394.4172.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to
    grasp. Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not
    going to be able to retire in their 50s/60s.

    Indeed. I'm afraid many of the recent generation (or two) will be in
    for a rude awakening when they reach middle age. Lack of prior planning will be a huge problem for many of them.

    One thing I cannot fully disagree with Democrats/the left on is that
    the lack of proper, prior planning by previous generations, like their parents or those who threw money at them when they were "earning" a useless degree and building crushing debts, is eventually going to come back and bite those future adults who had no hand in those prior decisions.

    I don't agree with their fix... throw more good money after bad...
    though. I think the fix is to stop throwing any more money at it and changing how things are done to make it more difficult to build that
    debt to begin with.

    "Free college," unless that involves forcing students to get practical educations and changing the limits based on work force demand, is not
    the way to fix it.

    This is why they go crazy. Reality is shaped by circumstances, and they object to this, so they are at constant war with reality. We shouldn't be subject to any cirumstances, whether the happenstance of the sex we are born as, our ethnicity, race, our parents, family, wealth, etc. These things cannot no matter, yet their ideology says they shouldn't. So instead of learning to live with it, they tear everything apart to try and deconstruct reality itself.

    No wonder they are all going mad.

    The best 'fix' is to make opportunities available.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dr. What on Tue Feb 16 21:37:00 2021
    Dr. What wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Exactly. Living beyond your means (which for the Dems and millenials
    in the crowd means having excessive debt) means a delayed retirement
    until that debt can be paid back. It's really quite simple actually.

    It means being very dependant on the gov't handouts when you are
    in retirement. It's all part of the Plantation scheme that the
    Dems have to create large groups of people who will ALWAYS vote
    Democrat to keep their handouts coming.

    Absolutely. Of course that is really no different than their agenda of keeping pre-retirement folks (working or not) dependant on their
    handouts via the "Handouts-for-Votes" program. It's a scheme they've
    used for decades, and the program gets big assistance from the media and
    from union/labor groups.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 09:32:57 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 2021 08:37 am

    Oh, no. They are quite well aware of that. But convincing people that degrees are "needed" they:
    1. Funnel lots of money into colleges, that are cesspools of useless Lefties 2. Puts kids/parents into debt, which makes them more dependant on the gov't handouts.
    3. Puts more kids into the Leftie indocrination centers that many of our universities have become.

    For some careers, degrees are needed and not having one will prevent you from getting in the door. Your points are rather foolish but offer some validation to claims I've made numerous times. Public colleges should be free or heavily subsized. This will reduce the financial burden on families and open more doors for children who avoid careers due to the high debt load. There is nothing wrong with colleges; they open the minds of our youth allowing them to examine multiple arguments besides those they were raised with. There are views and arguments that our youth may never look beyond that college will never fix, but the thought of trying is still important.

    The Elites look upon those non-degree jobs with scorn because they are "beneath" them. In reality those kinds of jobs require skill and knowledge and are completely beyond the ability of the Elites to do. But Elites **need** to believe that they are better.

    I disagree. Since you equate The Elites with Democrats (Liberals), and I am a Liberal, I wholeheartedly disagree. Work is work and we all have something to offer. Whether a fast food worker, grocery store cashier, car dealer, mechanic, painter, etc., they serve a purpose and we don't look down on them. I'm not better than the next person. Maybe I have a skill that the next person doesn't, but my skill and their skill all get the job done.

    Personally, the majority of those in my profession do not have degrees. We are mostly college dropouts who found college too restrictive and the knowledge insufficient or outdated. Those who graduated college think they are ready but aren't and require two to three years to even be considered entry-level.

    College is not always the answer.

    College is not an indoctrination center, it is a place to gain knowledge. Whether you choose to open your mind or not to knew ideas and concepts remains a choice you and you alone make.

    Mike Rowe Works Foundation.

    Mike Rowe Works Foundation is quite impressive and truly demonstrates that there are more avenues than what is traditionally understood.

    But that's what the Lefties want: People as useless as themselves, but think that they are better than the people who actually **DO** something. And feeling mad because the local plumber is making better money than they do.

    Again, I'm no better than the next person. The majority of us Lefties care less about income and social standing, we care about people. Your idea that we care that the plumber is making more than us is, and I'll say this rather emphatically, bullshit.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 10:00:24 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 2021 08:58 am

    Even 30-40 years ago, financial planning was NOT something that was commonly taught in the schools. Luckily, my parents did a good job of that with me.

    But I know that today, such education is not commonplace at all.

    I find it terrible that our children are not taught fundamental financial skills in middle and high schools. When my oldest son came to me asking for help with his taxes, I was floored. This is precisely when I knew that our schools are failing our children. They spend more time preparing for standardized tests than they do for life.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 10:08:03 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dr. What to Gamgee on Tue Feb 16 2021 09:00 am

    It means being very dependant on the gov't handouts when you are in retirement. It's all part of the Plantation scheme that the Dems have
    to create large groups of people who will ALWAYS vote Democrat to keep
    their handouts coming.

    I've never taken a single handout from the government nor has anyone in my social and family circles. Your argument also is contrary to published research.

    Per The Atlantic, "Republicans want to shrink government. But their core voters benefit from assistance, like the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, the most." (https://bit.ly/3apBMut)

    Per MarketWatch, "States that voted for Trump depend the most on 'big government'. ...One of the worst offenders is Mitch McConnell's home state of Kentucky." (https://on.mktw.net/3dn33iY)

    You might want to reel in your false narratives and arguments a tad.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 10:22:13 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 2021 09:21 am

    1. We get a bunch of worthless Leftie "professors" in worthless Leftie colleges who get to continue making a living doing nothing useful.
    Benefit: Lefties.

    Interesting, back to this. I learned a lot from Leftie professors including Economics and Political Science. Not only did they open my eyes to the realities of the world, but they also helped me understand the difference between why we do something and the benefit of doing that something. Education is important, and it's not for everyone. The choice to learn and digest the knowledge as you see it remains up to you.

    2. We get a bunch of people who are saddled with debt and have a useless degree that's not worth anything. These people are dependant on the gov't, mad at the fact that they "have a degree" but the high paying job that
    they were promised never materalized and have the time and hatred to
    smash buildings and riot.
    Benefit: Lefties.

    When I first went to college I wanted to teach High School English. Even though I was already strong in technology, my love for reading and writing drove me down an education path. After a couple semesters, I made the decision that teaching wasn't for me. I continued down my original path, technology, which I remain in to this day. Yes, I have a significant college debt load as I've always wanted the "piece of paper". I pay on the loans and I don't regret my choices.

    3. Those colleges, who are flush with money for producing nothing but brainwashed morons, donate back to the Democrat establishment.
    Benefit: Lefties.

    The majority of colleges spend their money on athetics.

    See, that's what we call an unfounded claim. I'd love to see your source for that.

    So why would the Lefties want to fix this? It benefits them all around.

    What benefits me is being surrounded by intelligent people. Whether they went to college or not, it is up to them how they use their knowledge for the betterment of themselves or for the common person. I choose the common person.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to MRO on Wed Feb 17 10:24:05 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: MRO to Dr. What on Tue Feb 16 2021 05:52 pm

    cleaning a huge place in a small amount of time takes a lot of skill. it takes a lot of time management skill. you have to be very organized. a lot of these workers who thought they were better than us were berated constantly for not having these attributes.

    People who look down on others is completely wrong. We are all trying to make money and live. Those workers who put you and your crew down should've lost their jobs.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 12:37:51 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Tue Feb 16 2021 08:37 am

    Oh, no. They are quite well aware of that. But convincing people that degrees are "needed" they:
    1. Funnel lots of money into colleges, that are cesspools of useless Lefties
    2. Puts kids/parents into debt, which makes them more dependant on
    the gov't handouts.
    3. Puts more kids into the Leftie indocrination centers that many of our universities have become.

    In my personal experience, I'm not sure how much of this is really true.. I got an associates & a bachelor's degree in software engineering, and I think the degree program I was in was fairly good and focused on what it was meant to be. In the classes I had, I never had a sense that anyone was pushing a political agenda either way; they were just teaching the course material.

    As far as debt, I can understand not wanting debt. I was in a low-income situation where I qualified for financial aid in the form of grants that significantly eased the cost for me. I came out of college debt-free. Although I had the option to take loans, I chose not to. What was leftover after grants was paid out of pocket.

    Nightfox

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 17:42:52 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 09:32 am

    College is not an indoctrination center, it is a place to gain knowledge. Whether you choose to open your mind or not to knew ideas and concepts remai a choice you and you alone make.


    Colleges are indoctrination centers.

    There is a reason why political groups of varied colors use college as recruitment and indoctrination spots. It is easy for them to spot kids who are burning daddy's money by spending too much time partying and too little time studying. These guys have too much time in their hands so if you can recruit them they are a great asset for activism.

    And yeah, this is in activist groups manuals btw.

    Many college departments are more power ful than people think and you get professors distributing weird ideas to students, like "continuous calculus is a worthless model", without opposition.

    If you can get mathematicians promote that differencial equations are not worth working with without opposition, it is no surprise that you get professors declare that this or that person are ideological heirs of Hitler or Franco.

    Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have been to a College much different than mine.

    --
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 17:51:20 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 10:22 am

    3. Those colleges, who are flush with money for producing nothing but brainwashed morons, donate back to the Democrat establishment.
    Benefit: Lefties.

    The majority of colleges spend their money on athetics.

    See, that's what we call an unfounded claim. I'd love to see your source fo that.

    When I was at college and I wanted to join some extra-curicular coding/engineering activities, I realized ALL the College sponsored ones were woke infiltrated.

    You could not get a crash course on Qt ot GTK but you could get 10 relating to including minorities in white teams.

    There were some researches going on which sounded great in theory, but when you talked to people who was actually doing it, turned out to be big money burners. Like they would attempt an experimental procedure on a pig whose result everybody knew, ten times more than necessary, because they had too much budget and they had to expend it :-( The people most benefited from research programs was their managers, who would divert part of the funds and turn them into a bigger computer for his office, or even a TV flat screen.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Wed Feb 17 17:56:20 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 12:37 pm

    In my personal experience, I'm not sure how much of this is really true.. I got an associates & a bachelor's degree in software engineering, and I think the degree program I was in was fairly good and focused on what it was meant be. In the classes I had, I never had a sense that anyone was pushing a political agenda either way; they were just teaching the course material.


    Technical and science-studies seem to be resistant to political infiltration because the people in them are not good candidates for politicla activism - so I see less recruiters from political groups trying.

    The arts, filosophy, literature and nursery studies were LOADED with politics. Heck, you had arts students scoring credits for erecting monuments to Marx and Bakunin.

    --
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Wed Feb 17 18:01:54 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 12:37 pm

    Also, my memories are bringing back some non-subtle declarations by Engineering teachers regarding the need to socialize electrical power distribution (as in, the power grid) everytime they had us calculate a power distribution network.

    --
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Wed Feb 17 14:15:00 2021
    I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to grasp.
    Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not going to be able
    to retire in their 50s/60s.

    Even 30-40 years ago, financial planning was NOT something that was commonly taught in the schools. Luckily, my parents did a good job of that with me.

    I don't think they taught it when I was in school, which fits that time
    frame. They may have taught it in the "remedial" classes, where they
    seemed to teach more practical stuff than the "college bound" classes.

    Luckily my parents did a good job of that also. IMHO the failing here is
    not just on the schools.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "You've stolen my soul!" - Granpa Simpson

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Wed Feb 17 14:16:00 2021
    I don't agree with their fix... throw more good money after bad... though. I think the fix is to stop throwing any more money at it and changing how things are done to make it more difficult to build that debt to begin with.

    I think you are looking at this the wrong way.

    Everyone knows that throwing good money after bad won't solve the problem,
    so I think we can assume that solving the problem is **not** the goal.

    I am not convinced that everyone does know that. I do agree that many are
    set up to benefit from the practice for sure.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil!" - Granpa S

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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Arelor on Wed Feb 17 17:44:35 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Arelor to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 2021 05:42 pm

    Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have been to a College much different than mine.

    College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from it what you put in. You're right, college is a great place to get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the now deceased Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right website--indoctrination happens if you let it.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 23:14:52 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 09:32 am

    For some careers, degrees are needed and not having one will prevent you from getting in the door. Your points are rather foolish but offer some validation to claims I've made numerous times. Public colleges should be free or heavily subsized. This will reduce the financial burden on families and open more doors for children who avoid careers due to the high debt load. There is nothing wrong with colleges; they open the minds of our youth allowing them to examine multiple arguments besides those they were raised with. There are views and arguments that our youth may never look beyond that college will never fix, but the thought of trying is still important.

    My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not in debt.
    I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.

    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 03:31:33 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Arelor on Wed Feb 17 2021 05:44 pm

    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Arelor to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 2021 05:42 pm

    Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special
    bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have bee
    to a College much different than mine.

    College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from it what you put in. You're right, college is a great plac
    to get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the now deceased Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right
    website--indoctrination happens if you let it.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS


    I don't think jobs are High School 2.0 at all.

    Certain workplaces are indoctrination centers, but they are nothing like High School.

    Maybe some office or public office jobs are, but at that point I would call them pseudo-jobs if they actually are.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 07:34:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Arelor <=-

    Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have been to a College much different than mine.

    College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from
    it what you put in. You're right, college is a great place to
    get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the
    now deceased Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right website--indoctrination happens if you let it.

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges tend
    to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal
    political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    Seriously?

    That's a *LOT* different than watching/listening to a particular
    channel, or "going to a website". Not even remotely the same thing.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Nightfox on Thu Feb 18 08:15:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to Dr. What <=-

    In my personal experience, I'm not sure how much of this is really
    true.. I got an associates & a bachelor's degree in software
    engineering, and I think the degree program I was in was fairly good
    and focused on what it was meant to be. In the classes I had, I never
    had a sense that anyone was pushing a political agenda either way; they were just teaching the course material.

    The STEM fields are the last to be "converged" because those jobs are
    dependant on performance. But some universities are diluting their STEM degrees to such a point where companies won't take the degree as proof
    of knowledge anymore.

    I had the same experience in college as you, but that was at a VERY techie school (mostly geeks and SJW-type people were laughed at - even if they
    could get in). But back then, IBM's "interview" was "here's an employment application. It's just a formality. You're hired if you want. You start
    next month at XXXX." But today, at the same school, that's not the case.

    As far as debt, I can understand not wanting debt. I was in a
    low-income situation where I qualified for financial aid in the form of grants that significantly eased the cost for me. I came out of college debt-free. Although I had the option to take loans, I chose not to.
    What was leftover after grants was paid out of pocket.

    Debt is fine - if you can pay it back. When I went to college and needed
    a student loan, I looked up what a realistic salary was going to be, added
    in living expenses, and such and decided that I could pay the loan back with out eating Ramen every day.

    But that's not the case today. Too many people get worthless degrees, believing
    the propaganda that you only need "a degree" to get a good job. Others
    get good degrees, but didn't get realistic salary expectations. They only
    saw the high end of the salary range (you know, for 20 years experience - not the new guy).


    ... Please type your Bank PIN number in your reply again.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Thu Feb 18 08:20:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-

    I don't think they taught it when I was in school, which fits that time frame. They may have taught it in the "remedial" classes, where they seemed to teach more practical stuff than the "college bound" classes.

    Luckily my parents did a good job of that also. IMHO the failing here
    is not just on the schools.

    Parents and schools are supposed to compliment each other as far as education. But we know how that works out today.

    My high school was OK up to my senior year. Then I had to fight them to get what I needed.

    I lucked out and was able to get into Personal Typing (something that "college bound" students usually didn't get) which was a really good thing to know going into programming.

    But when I was offered a part time job in software development, the school
    just put up roadblock after roadblock. My school had something called
    "Senior Option" where you could take a part time job (like 4 hours/day)
    and get school credit for it. I could never understand (at the time) why
    they would try to block me.


    ... The Negative orgasm: "Oh no, Ohh nooo, OH NOOO !"
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Thu Feb 18 09:01:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-

    Everyone knows that throwing good money after bad won't solve the problem, so I think we can assume that solving the problem is **not** the goal.

    I am not convinced that everyone does know that.

    You do have a point there.

    I do agree that many
    are set up to benefit from the practice for sure.

    Yes. And they have an interest in keeping people's attention diverted from that fact.


    ... If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Arelor on Thu Feb 18 09:17:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Many college departments are more power ful than people think and you
    get professors distributing weird ideas to students, like "continuous calculus is a worthless model", without opposition.

    But that's understandable. If you get any higher education, you are basically saying "I don't know" and you are seeking out someone who (supposedly)
    knows more than you. So, at least at first, you accept what they tell you as true.

    But kids aren't getting taught critical thinking skills so their BS detectors aren't getting developed to pick up on these so-called "experts".

    It used to be that bad profs got dropped because no student would take
    their classes. But if students can't determine who's good and who's bad
    that process no longer works.

    Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it.

    This is one thing that hurts me.

    I haven't been back to my college in over 30 years and I'm planning on
    a trip that will take me through there this year. But I'm having mixed feelings about that after seeing the Woke BS in the alumni stuff over
    the last year or so.

    I really want to see how the college has evolved, but I don't want to
    deal with the screaming Lefties that might be there.


    ... Are you on an ego trip? You forgot your luggage.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Thu Feb 18 17:56:42 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dumas Walker to DR. WHAT on Wed Feb 17 2021 02:15 pm

    I think the "financial decisions" part is what some fail to grasp. Those that don't want to make any sacrifices are not going to be able to retire in their 50s/60s.

    Even 30-40 years ago, financial planning was NOT something that was commonly taught in the schools. Luckily, my parents did a good job of that with me.

    I don't think they taught it when I was in school, which fits that time frame. They may have taught it in the "remedial" classes, where they
    seemed to teach more practical stuff than the "college bound" classes.

    Luckily my parents did a good job of that also. IMHO the failing here is not just on the schools.



    i dont any schools teach it. other than saying you should put away a percentage of each paycheck.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Denn on Thu Feb 18 18:44:16 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Denn to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 2021 11:14 pm

    My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not in debt.
    I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.

    Okay, and that works for you and your family, but I believe higher education should also be subsidized ensuring greater access to education. We are the only country in the world where education is a luxury. Even a paltry 1% increase in taxes would fund higher education. Just for clarification, primary, middle, and high schools are paid for by home ownership taxes. Those who live in apartments do not directly pay into "lower" education.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Arelor on Thu Feb 18 18:46:42 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Arelor to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 2021 03:31 am

    I don't think jobs are High School 2.0 at all.

    Certain workplace environments can be cliquish, a lot like high school.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Gamgee on Thu Feb 18 18:49:25 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 2021 07:34 am

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges tend
    to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal
    political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    Yes, that is what I am saying. I've been to colleges in Orange County, California and Denver, Colorado. My professors were on both sides and I never once felt indoctrinated into a certain "mindset". Once again, you take what you want from college. I spent many hours debating professors who were on both sides, I learned some, laughed some, and regretted some of those conversations. Ultimately, I still learned.

    Seriously?

    Yes, seriously. Been there, done that.

    That's a *LOT* different than watching/listening to a particular
    channel, or "going to a website". Not even remotely the same thing.

    Again, you take from it what you want.


    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 21:59:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges tend
    to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal
    political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    Yes, that is what I am saying. I've been to colleges in Orange
    County, California and Denver, Colorado. My professors were on
    both sides and I never once felt indoctrinated into a certain
    "mindset". Once again, you take what you want from college. I
    spent many hours debating professors who were on both sides, I
    learned some, laughed some, and regretted some of those
    conversations. Ultimately, I still learned.

    Yep, as expected. *Your* experience is completely different than anyone else's. I suspect things have changed since you attended college.

    Honestly there isn't *ANY* debate by those who actually know, on whether professors are (virtually) all Leftists, and try to pass on their
    political leanings in addition to whatever course material they are
    teaching. You're very out of touch, in case you didn't know it.



    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 23:15:06 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Denn on Thu Feb 18 2021 06:44 pm

    My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for
    their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and
    board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money

    Okay, and that works for you and your family, but I believe higher education should also be subsidized ensuring greater access to education. We are the only country in the world where education is a luxury. Even a paltry 1% increase in taxes would fund higher education. Just for clarification, primary, middle, and high schools are paid for by home ownership taxes. Those who live in apartments do not directly pay into "lower" education.

    Remind me again why the tea was dumped in Boston bay?
    Our form of Government was meant to be as non-intrusive as possible.
    Government handouts have taken over.
    But I guess all man made governments eventually fail.
    If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not depend on taxes to pay for it.

    ---
    Synchronet outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Arelor@VERT/HAVENS to Dream Master on Fri Feb 19 05:43:23 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Gamgee on Thu Feb 18 2021 06:49 pm

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
    tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that
    nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their
    personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    Yes, that is what I am saying. I've been to colleges in Orange County, California and Denver, Colorado. My professors were on both sides and I never once felt indoctrinated into a certain "mindset". Once again, you take what you want from college. I spent many hours debating professors who were on both sides, I learned some, laughed some, and regretted some of those conversations. Ultimately, I still learned.

    I suspect you have been to Colleges much different to the ones I have been in.

    When the 2009 budget cuts hit my local College, they fired half the auxiliary personal, but kept all the politically loaded programs and political student associations. I think this says it all.

    Heck, it is illegal to place political propaganda near College buildings, and the place was boiling with posters last time I was near mine. And mine was not one of the really bad ones.

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DREAM MASTER on Fri Feb 19 16:05:00 2021
    Yes, that is what I am saying. I've been to colleges in Orange County, Califor
    ia and Denver, Colorado. My professors were on both sides and I never once fel
    indoctrinated into a certain "mindset". Once again, you take what you want fr
    m college. I spent many hours debating professors who were on both sides, I le
    rned some, laughed some, and regretted some of those conversations. Ultimately,
    I still learned.

    Were they state-run? We are similar in age, I think, and my experience
    differs greatly from yours. My profs either leaned openly very left, or didn't express their political opinions at all. The latter group acted as I would have expected since I was not a poli sci major. The only prof I had that expressed an opinion and didn't lean left was in the only poli sci class I took. He was an old guy from Massachusetts who used to work for the Kennedys, and claimed that before working for them he was a liberal.

    Had an economics professor who spent the whole of one class telling us how stupid something a Republican did was. Right at the end of class, they muttered that it did work after all. The next test was all about how stupid the idea was and nothing about how it worked. The only people who got a good grade in that class were the young ladies who sat in the front of the class.

    Most of what I have used in my professional life was not what I learned at
    the state-run college.


    * SLMR 2.1a * ...a host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance...

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DENN on Fri Feb 19 15:55:00 2021
    If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not depend on >taxes to pay for it.

    Especially when they plan to major in crap, or don't have a plan at all. Colleges eat that latter group up.


    * SLMR 2.1a * If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice!

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Denn on Fri Feb 19 20:12:20 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Denn to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 2021 11:15 pm

    If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not depend on taxes to pay for it.

    That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a good local economy, we need skilled & educated workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being outsourced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose that might mean the local population is too lazy to work for their higher education, and the people overseas are more willing to work for it?

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Nightfox on Sat Feb 20 00:48:53 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Nightfox to Denn on Fri Feb 19 2021 08:12 pm

    If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not
    depend on taxes to pay for it.

    That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a good local economy, we need skilled & educated workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being outsourced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose that might mean the local population is too lazy to work for their higher education, and the people overseas are more willing to work for it?

    We have the skilled worker's, companies like Disney and others made workers train their oversea's replacements, the oversea's workers like in India work for far less money.

    ---
    Synchronet outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Sat Feb 20 06:04:17 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Nightfox to Denn on Fri Feb 19 2021 08:12 pm

    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Denn to Dream Master on Thu Feb 18 2021 11:15 pm

    If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not depend on taxes to pay for it.

    That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a good local economy, we need skilled & educated
    workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being outsourced
    overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose that might mean
    local population is too lazy to work for their higher education, and the people overseas are more willing to work for it?

    Nightfox


    I think the west has a surplus of degreed people. We are overproducing College graded students that end up moving boxes around
    or organizing books at libraries.

    There are spike scarcities in some fields. For example, anestheseologists and thrauma doctors in my area are scarce. However,
    there is not a lack of degreed doctors as much as a lack of actually useful doctors... the actual number of doctors insurance
    companies want to work with is reduced because everybody else is a butcher with a white lab coat.

    You don't fix that sort of scarcity giving more degrees away. In fact, I'd make the argument that College is close to useless
    when it comes to building actual professionals and we need to ditch the whole model altogether.

    Back in the 15th century, if you anted to become an engineer, you joined an engineering workshop as an apprentice and you
    learnt the trade by doing actual engineering on the field. This model was used for a wide range of processions in Spain until
    very recent times, and guess what, people learnt their trade. Nowadays you have IT techs with 4 degrees and three masters who
    don't know what the OSI layer is.

    So when I read that we have to increase the availability of College education, why I am reading is "we have to funnel more
    people into a broken education system."

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Denn on Sat Feb 20 06:06:27 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Sat Feb 20 2021 12:48 am

    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Nightfox to Denn on Fri Feb 19 2021 08:12 pm

    If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not
    depend on taxes to pay for it.

    That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a good local economy, we need skilled &
    educated workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being
    outsourced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose t
    might mean the local population is too lazy to work for their higher education, and the people overseas are more willin
    to work for it?

    We have the skilled worker's, companies like Disney and others made workers train their oversea's replacements, the oversea
    workers like in India work for far less money.


    It is a tight balance.

    HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they
    are learning the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to integrate with their existing products.

    In the end of the day it is all about getting the best result/dollar ratio.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 07:17:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

    So when I read that we have to increase the availability of
    College education, why I am reading is "we have to funnel more
    people into a broken education system."

    Yes, and to do that, we'll need to raise everybody's taxes to pay for
    all these "free" college educations. Except the increased tax revenue
    won't actually go to that, it'll go to the pet projects of the Democrat politicians who promoted the idea (back in their home districts only),
    and into their personal bank accounts.

    That's how Leftists here in the USA function, and how they become multi-millionaires after a couple of decades of "public service".



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Sat Feb 20 12:18:54 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Sat Feb 20 2021 12:48 am


    We have the skilled worker's, companies like Disney and others made workers train their oversea's replacements, the oversea's workers like in India work for far less money.

    i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone was so excited!
    except me who said fuck that.

    nobody could understand my reasoning on that.

    i left the company and everyone who stayed got laid off and then there was a recession where it was hard to get ANY type of job.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 12:22:59 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Arelor to Denn on Sat Feb 20 2021 06:06 am


    HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they are learning the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to integrate with their existing products.

    In the end of the day it is all about getting the best result/dollar ratio.


    my company tried outsourcing some of their electronics to india.
    Then it comes back to me and i check it with the engineers and we reject everything. this has happened 3 times already.

    it's like they have people making things who have no experience reading blueprints/drawings and zero electronics experience.

    whats funny is they tried to change the quote after they thought they had us. ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Sat Feb 20 09:12:00 2021
    That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we want a g
    od local economy, we need skilled & educated workers, so it would be good to ma
    e a higher education easier to obtain. There are many jobs that are being outs
    urced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers for the jobs.

    My argument there is that, if you want to take the easier to obtain route,
    you have to earn a degree in the skills that are in demand. If you want to
    go to get your political beliefs validated, you have to pay for it yourself.
    If you want to go and major in something that will only lead you to working
    at McDonald's, or Target, and spend all day complaining about how you
    cannot get a job in your chosen, impractical field, you have to pay for it yourself.

    I think that is more than fair... society helps pay your way, and then you
    pay society back by filling a useful need.


    * SLMR 2.1a * It's the Bucket woman! She'll sing at me!!!

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to HusTler on Sat Feb 20 18:16:00 2021
    HusTler wrote to Dream Master <=-

    @VIA: VERT/HAVENS
    @MSGID: <602A6790.4769.dove-debate@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <602981F9.1351.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to HusTler on Sun Feb 14 2021 01:03 pm

    He wasn't liked by Democrats and didn't "suck up" to them. BTW. Mr.
    Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good man down.

    "Teflon Don" strikes again.

    I'LL BE BOK ;-)

    Um.... he's still impeached. They aquitted Clinton, too. He's still impeached.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 20:21:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <602DA9FC.4221.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <602D4539.1401.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 09:32 am

    College is not an indoctrination center, it is a place to gain knowledge. Whether you choose to open your mind or not to knew ideas and concepts remai a choice you and you alone make.


    Colleges are indoctrination centers.

    Welp, that's all I needed to see. Dismissed.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 20:24:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <602DABF8.4222.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <602D50C5.1404.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 10:22 am

    3. Those colleges, who are flush with money for producing nothing but brainwashed morons, donate back to the Democrat establishment.
    Benefit: Lefties.

    The majority of colleges spend their money on athetics.

    See, that's what we call an unfounded claim. I'd love to see your source fo that.

    When I was at college and I wanted to join some extra-curicular coding/engineering activities, I realized ALL the College sponsored
    ones were woke infiltrated.

    As soon as you hear "woke infiltrated" in a conversation, you know the level of bullshit will be astronomical.


    ... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 20:33:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <602DAD24.4223.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <602D7E9F.25300.dove_dove-deb@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 12:37 pm

    In my personal experience, I'm not sure how much of this is really true.. I got an associates & a bachelor's degree in software engineering, and I think the degree program I was in was fairly good and focused on what it was meant be. In the classes I had, I never had a sense that anyone was pushing a political agenda either way; they were just teaching the course material.


    Technical and science-studies seem to be resistant to political infiltration because the people in them are not good candidates for politicla activism - so I see less recruiters from political groups trying.

    The arts, filosophy, literature and nursery studies were LOADED with politics. Heck, you had arts students scoring credits for erecting monuments to Marx and Bakunin.

    "Filosophy"? lmao Ok, Sir Spells-A-Lot.


    ... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Denn on Sat Feb 20 20:36:00 2021
    Denn wrote to Dream Master <=-

    @VIA: VERT/OUTWEST
    @MSGID: <602E05DC.5301.dove-debate@outwestbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <602D4539.1401.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Feb 17 2021 09:32 am

    For some careers, degrees are needed and not having one will prevent you from getting in the door. Your points are rather foolish but offer some validation to claims I've made numerous times. Public colleges should be free or heavily subsized. This will reduce the financial burden on families and open more doors for children who avoid careers due to the high debt load. There is nothing wrong with colleges; they open the minds of our youth allowing them to examine multiple arguments besides those they were raised with. There are views and arguments that our youth may never look beyond that college will never fix, but the thought of trying is still important.

    My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
    in debt.
    I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
    education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.

    Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and resources to do that for them.

    I wonder how many people can do that?


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 20:37:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <602E33F5.4232.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <602DB873.1410.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dream Master to Arelor on Wed Feb 17 2021 05:44 pm

    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Arelor to Dream Master on Wed Feb 17 2021 05:42 pm

    Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is
    isi
    ting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special
    bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling
    i
    th political campaigning then you must have bee
    to a College much different than mine.

    College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from it what
    ou
    put in. You're right, college is a great plac
    to get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the now
    eceas
    ed Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right
    website--indoctrination happens if you let it.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS


    I don't think jobs are High School 2.0 at all.

    Certain workplaces are indoctrination centers, but they are nothing
    like High School.

    I'm still laughing at this while I type.


    ... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Gamgee on Sat Feb 20 20:39:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to Dream Master <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <602E6F17.4233.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <602DB873.1410.dove-debate@caughtinadream.com>
    Dream Master wrote to Arelor <=-

    Honestly, the only thing it takes to take College off its pedestal is visiting it. It is High School 2.0 with a special bullshit and political mix thrown in. If you think they are not boiling with political campaigning then you must have been to a College much different than mine.

    College, job market, they are all High School 2.0. You take from
    it what you put in. You're right, college is a great place to
    get indoctrinated just like watching Fox News, listening to the
    now deceased Rush Limbaugh, or going onto a far right website--indoctrination happens if you let it.

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
    tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    Seriously?

    I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao


    ... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 12:17:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Denn <=-

    @MSGID: <6030FB43.4254.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <6030BEE5.5322.dove-debate@outwestbbs.com>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Denn to Nightfox on
    Sat Feb 20 2021 12:48 am

    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Nightfox to Denn on Fri Feb 19 2021 08:12 pm

    If someone wants a higher education they should work for it and not
    depend on taxes to pay for it.

    That's a good point, but an argument could probably be made that if we
    w
    ant a good local economy, we need skilled &
    educated workers, so it would be good to make a higher education easier
    to obtain. There are many jobs that are being
    outsourced overseas because there aren't enough local skilled workers
    fo
    r the jobs. If outsourcing is done, I suppose t
    might mean the local population is too lazy to work for their higher
    edu
    cation, and the people overseas are more willin
    to work for it?

    We have the skilled worker's, companies like Disney and others made workers
    train their oversea's replacements, the oversea
    workers like in India work for far less money.


    It is a tight balance.

    HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they are learning
    the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to integrate
    with their existing products.

    In the end of the day it is all about getting the best result/dollar ratio.

    Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
    end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
    realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.

    We dumb ass "consoomers" figured out that cheap imports were cheaper
    because they weren't as good, how did these well paid people miss this?



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.29
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Boraxman on Sat Feb 20 23:02:02 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 2021 12:17 pm

    HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to
    outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they are
    learning the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to
    integrate with their existing products.

    Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
    end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
    realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.

    I think there's more to it than cheaper = lower quality. As far as labor costs, in some countries, I think a large part of it is cost of living in a certain country and exchange rate with where the company is based. If a company is based in the USA and is paying workers in India, I think the cost of living in India is lower than the US, and the exchange rate from US dollars to Indian Rupees is favorable (right now, $1 US = 72.55 Indian Rupees).

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Boraxman on Sun Feb 21 04:24:50 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to Arelor on Sat Feb 20 2021 12:17 pm


    Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
    end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
    realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.

    We dumb ass "consoomers" figured out that cheap imports were cheaper
    because they weren't as good, how did these well paid people miss this?


    I have a bunch of theories about that.

    To be honest, there are many IT dudes in cheapo places who know their trade quite well. If you put somebody to oversee an
    outsourced operation with operatives from a developping country it is theoretically possible to come up with good results.

    I think modern corporations have lots of dead weight in the middle ranks. Redundant Human Resources employees, redundant
    managers. This people has to keep doing stuff in order to justify their existence. I have foud there are two main ways they
    achieve this:

    * Pushing Quality Control plans that cost a bunch of money to implement. This way they can talk to their higher-ups and tell
    them they are improving the comapny's Quality. It doesn't matter if the plan is worthless.

    * Pushing Cost Plans, so they can talk to the higher-ups and tell them how much money they are saving for the company.

    Once the company is really optimized, you run out of useful things to do, so you have to push plans that crank things up to 11.
    Othersiwe you risk senior managers discovering you are not needed anymore.

    So you come up with the idea of moving operations to India - even knowing you can't possibly improve results doing that -
    because that will keep you looking busy for some years.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vague on Sun Feb 21 08:28:00 2021
    Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
    tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao

    What makes you think I'm "pretending"? You don't think it's possible
    that I know that for certain?


    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vague on Sun Feb 21 08:50:00 2021
    Vague wrote to Arelor <=-

    When I was at college and I wanted to join some extra-curicular coding/engineering activities, I realized ALL the College sponsored
    ones were woke infiltrated.

    As soon as you hear "woke infiltrated" in a conversation, you
    know the level of bullshit will be astronomical.

    Kinda like when you see a message from "Vague", you know it's 100%
    bullshit.



    ... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vague on Sun Feb 21 08:53:00 2021
    Vague wrote to Denn <=-

    My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
    in debt.
    I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
    education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.

    Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and
    resources to do that for them.

    He said that they let their kids stay at their home while the kids went
    to college, and fed them. How much money and resources does that
    require...??

    I wonder how many people can do that?

    I'd say nearly 100% of people. I mean, the kids were staying/eating
    there before they left for college, right?



    ... Never assume the obvious is true!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BORAXMAN on Sun Feb 21 10:10:00 2021
    Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
    end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
    realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.

    That, or the company gets a black eye because the country they shipped the
    jobs off to uses child or slave labor. Well, unless they shipped it off to China. They can use slave labor in concentration/re-education camps and
    for some reason few care about that as long as they still get their Apple products.


    * SLMR 2.1a * We all live in a yellow subroutine.

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Sun Feb 21 08:33:00 2021
    MRO wrote to Denn <=-

    i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone
    was so excited! except me who said fuck that.

    I wonder if anyone stayed in PR and went into business for themselves consulting for the outsourcer?

    Now that would have been the boss move.


    ... No appropriate tagline.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Boraxman on Sun Feb 21 08:39:00 2021
    Boraxman wrote to Arelor <=-

    Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
    realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.

    I work in IT services, and like most IT spend, it's a pendulum. We paid for all full-time desktop support people with a handful of contractors during
    peak season, then when the crash of 2008 hit, most companies were asked to trim 10-15% off of all of our contracts/budgets, etc. We went to a "Managed Service Provider" to save money, some of our FTEs migrated to the MSP, and service suffered. We went from highly-regarded IT services to a ticket culture, where they cared about closed tickets, not solving the customer issue, or understanding what the customer needed.

    When I left, they were in the process of swinging the other way, hiring FTEs again and focusing on customer experience.




    ... No appropriate tagline.
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    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 21 13:09:53 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Sun Feb 21 2021 08:33 am

    MRO wrote to Denn <=-

    i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone was so excited! except me who said fuck that.

    I wonder if anyone stayed in PR and went into business for themselves consulting for the outsourcer?

    Now that would have been the boss move.


    no, nobody ended up going there. the company had a plant in PR, they didnt outsource.

    and even if something happened that you mentioneed, puerto rico is a craphole that doesnt pay well so they wouldn't fare well.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Gamgee on Sun Feb 21 13:53:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <6032781D.4278.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <6031BB17.974.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
    tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao

    What makes you think I'm "pretending"? You don't think it's possible
    that I know that for certain?

    I do not. Mainly because it's not believable. There are a lot of colleges. You've been to 2 at most, and not to do studies on their cultures. Your anecdotal story, at best, is based on a miniscule database of information. Again, I do not believe you.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet VAGUE BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet:23/SSH:22/RLogin:513
  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Gamgee on Sun Feb 21 14:05:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <6032781D.4280.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <6031BB17.972.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    Vague wrote to Denn <=-

    My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
    in debt.
    I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
    education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.

    Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and
    resources to do that for them.

    He said that they let their kids stay at their home while the kids went
    to college, and fed them. How much money and resources does that require...??

    I wonder how many people can do that?

    I'd say nearly 100% of people. I mean, the kids were staying/eating
    there before they left for college, right?

    Oh.. yeah.. 100%! Suuuure. And I'm sure when you look around all you see if middle class. When was the last time you had to decide whether to buy groceries or pay rent? Poeple have to make that decision daily in this country, but you say 100% of Americans can afford to provided free room and board for their adult children while they are in college for the next 4 to 6 years? Do you also think 100% of Texans could just fly to Cancun?

    What's the weather like out there on Fantasy Island? Comfy?


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Nightfox on Sun Feb 21 21:33:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <6032056A.25350.dove_dove-deb@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <6031CA28.20569.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to Arelor on
    Sat Feb 20 2021 12:17 pm

    HP Printing outsources a lot of their coding to Spain. They used to
    outsource it to India because India is cheaper, but they are
    learning the hard way that code produced in India is getting hard to
    integrate with their existing products.

    Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
    end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
    realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this outcome.

    I think there's more to it than cheaper = lower quality. As far as
    labor costs, in some countries, I think a large part of it is cost of living in a certain country and exchange rate with where the company is based. If a company is based in the USA and is paying workers in
    India, I think the cost of living in India is lower than the US, and
    the exchange rate from US dollars to Indian Rupees is favorable (right now, $1 US = 72.55 Indian Rupees).

    Yes, but the reason the exchange rate differs is productive capacity. It indiciative of the same thing. Its not geography which determines the exchange rate, or latitude, or longitude, or climate, or the name, or how old or new the nation is, its the economy, and the economy is influenced by people.

    Exchange rate is influenced by demand for the currency, which is is a proxy for demand of what the people in that country produce. What I'm getting at, is exchange rates aren't arbitrary or random.

    If the USA and India swapped populations, the exchange rates would eventually swap as well.

    The US Dollar was sought, because the US dollar was backed by an economy run by Americans.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Arelor on Sun Feb 21 21:46:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <603234F2.4277.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <6031CA28.20569.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to Arelor on
    Sat Feb 20 2021 12:17 pm


    Don't these companies wonder WHY labour is cheaper? It amuses me to no
    end to hear stories of companies going for cheaper labour, then
    realising they are getting a shoddier product, not having expected this
    outco
    me.

    We dumb ass "consoomers" figured out that cheap imports were cheaper
    because they weren't as good, how did these well paid people miss this?


    I have a bunch of theories about that.

    To be honest, there are many IT dudes in cheapo places who know their trade quite well. If you put somebody to oversee an outsourced
    operation with operatives from a developping country it is
    theoretically possible to come up with good results.

    I have no doubt there are talented IT people in cheapo places. But for better or worse, it is the average which dictates here.

    I think modern corporations have lots of dead weight in the middle
    ranks. Redundant Human Resources employees, redundant managers. This people has to keep doing stuff in order to justify their existence. I
    have foud there are two main ways they achieve this:

    * Pushing Quality Control plans that cost a bunch of money to
    implement. This way they can talk to their higher-ups and tell them
    they are improving the comapny's Quality. It doesn't matter if the plan
    is worthless.

    * Pushing Cost Plans, so they can talk to the higher-ups and tell them
    how much money they are saving for the company.

    Once the company is really optimized, you run out of useful things to
    do, so you have to push plans that crank things up to 11. Othersiwe you risk senior managers discovering you are not needed anymore.

    So you come up with the idea of moving operations to India - even
    knowing you can't possibly improve results doing that - because that
    will keep you looking busy for some years.

    There is now a third way, pushing corporate culture and inflating the importance of HR programs, company culture, inclusion, etc. You convince the corporate world that these things are essential and necessary for success. Some companies will spend a lot of HR, and end up no better than one which doesn't, at least from my experience.

    Capital views labour as completely fungible and exchangeable. In Capitalist ideology, labour is just labour, and price of labour is pegged to output, not a rental fee. So it logically follows from Capitalist ideology, that if you have two labour sources, and one is 5x cheaper, its a no brainer. But that was based on a false Marxian notion of the labour theory of value, that value is the product of labour and labour is a "cost". Offshoring labour only makes sense in the incorrect, flawed Capitalist model. The Western world has paid dearly for this. The lowering standard of living, increasing debt, a generation mired in debt, unable to afford a home, crappy gig jobs, is evidence of this failure. The fact our civilisation is in decline. It clearly isn't working.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vague on Sun Feb 21 21:28:00 2021
    Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
    tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao

    What makes you think I'm "pretending"? You don't think it's possible
    that I know that for certain?

    I do not. Mainly because it's not believable. There are a lot of
    colleges. You've been to 2 at most, and not to do studies on
    their cultures. Your anecdotal story, at best, is based on a
    miniscule database of information. Again, I do not believe you.

    You make a lot of erroneous assumptions. I am not basing my statement
    on *ONLY* my personal experiences with college. It includes my own
    kids, my entire (large) family, my wife's family, and LOTS of friends
    and aquaintances. And friends of friends that I talk to. And business
    people that I deal with. And reading/web material. All of this over
    most all the geographical areas of the country.

    See?



    ... Can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street?
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vague on Sun Feb 21 21:34:00 2021
    Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-

    My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
    in debt.
    I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
    education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.

    Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and
    resources to do that for them.

    He said that they let their kids stay at their home while the kids went
    to college, and fed them. How much money and resources does that require...??

    I wonder how many people can do that?

    I'd say nearly 100% of people. I mean, the kids were staying/eating
    there before they left for college, right?

    Oh.. yeah.. 100%! Suuuure. And I'm sure when you look around all
    you see if middle class. When was the last time you had to decide
    whether to buy groceries or pay rent? Poeple have to make that
    decision daily in this country, but you say 100% of Americans can
    afford to provided free room and board for their adult children
    while they are in college for the next 4 to 6 years? Do you also
    think 100% of Texans could just fly to Cancun?

    <sigh> Your reading comprehension sucks. You need some college (or
    perhaps high school) remedial education.

    I did not say "100% of Americans". You fucking idiot. I was speaking
    about the kids who went to college (and PAID FOR IT BY WORKING THEIR WAY THROUGH COLLEGE), who stayed/ate at their parents' house. There weren't
    any resources used by the parents to send the kids to college. They
    (the kids) paid for it themselves. That's what the dude said, right
    there above!

    So, yes. For kids attending college that way, I'm sure that they're
    parents could house/feed them. I mean, a few months prior, when the
    kids were still in high school, they were staying/eating at home, right?

    Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention to what is written, not
    what you're imagining.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to MRO on Sun Feb 21 22:21:44 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: MRO to Denn on Sat Feb 20 2021 12:18 pm

    i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone was so excited! except me who said fuck that.

    Did you? So did I. What did you do? I did Welding and Machining.

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  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Vague on Sun Feb 21 22:26:37 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Vague to HusTler on Sat Feb 20 2021 06:16 pm

    Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good
    man down.

    "Teflon Don" strikes again.

    I'LL BE BOK ;-)

    Um.... he's still impeached. They aquitted Clinton, too. He's still impeached.

    Obviously "Impeachment" don't mean shit. Just like Biden and his Democrats don't mean shit.

    ---
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to MRO on Mon Feb 22 08:46:00 2021
    MRO wrote to Arelor <=-

    my company tried outsourcing some of their electronics to india.
    Then it comes back to me and i check it with the engineers and we
    reject everything. this has happened 3 times already.

    My previous company has tried this 3 times and it always failed for
    exactly the same reasons: They take too long and do poor work.

    it's like they have people making things who have no experience reading blueprints/drawings and zero electronics experience.

    That's because they don't. They put on a good "dog and pony" show for your management and claim that they can do what you do for 1/5 the price. Of course,
    they don't say that it will take 5 times as long to get something done
    and only 1/5 of the output will actually be good.

    whats funny is they tried to change the quote after they thought they
    had us.

    They love to try to change the rules/definitions part way into the contract
    to benefit themselves - at your expense.


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  • From BoonDock@VERT/GATOFUEG to HusTler on Mon Feb 22 10:09:40 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: HusTler to Vague on Sun Feb 21 2021 22:26:37

    Obviously "Impeachment" don't mean shit. Just like Biden and his Democrats don't mean shit.
    Impeachment is the charge. That's ALL it is.

    Anyone can trump up any bogus charges they want. (see what I did there)
    The TRIAL is the important thing.

    There is, strangely enough, a concept called "innocent until proven guilty".

    JD

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Mon Feb 22 19:54:10 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: HusTler to MRO on Sun Feb 21 2021 10:21 pm

    Re: Re: GAB
    By: MRO to Denn on Sat Feb 20 2021 12:18 pm

    i worked at a company that made medical devices. we were given the news that we can go over to puerto rico to train our replacements! everyone was so excited! except me who said fuck that.

    Did you? So did I. What did you do? I did Welding and Machining.

    assembly and microsoldering of a device that goes into the head of your penis and electricutes your prostate so it shrinks.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/tuna-ablation/about/pac-20384883

    they offered to show the video of the procedure but i said nope
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  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Gamgee on Tue Feb 23 18:47:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <60332BD3.4291.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <6032CE71.992.dove-netdebate@20xd6>
    Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-

    So, you don't think it's accurate to say that nearly *ALL* colleges
    tend to try and sway students to the Left? You don't think that nearly *ALL* college "professors" are liberals and try to add their personal political beliefs into their lesson plans?

    I like how you pretend to know so certainly that they are. lmao

    What makes you think I'm "pretending"? You don't think it's possible
    that I know that for certain?

    I do not. Mainly because it's not believable. There are a lot of
    colleges. You've been to 2 at most, and not to do studies on
    their cultures. Your anecdotal story, at best, is based on a
    miniscule database of information. Again, I do not believe you.

    You make a lot of erroneous assumptions. I am not basing my statement
    on *ONLY* my personal experiences with college. It includes my own
    kids, my entire (large) family, my wife's family, and LOTS of friends
    and aquaintances. And friends of friends that I talk to. And business people that I deal with. And reading/web material. All of this over
    most all the geographical areas of the country.

    See?

    And none of that make any difference because it's all anecdotal.

    The 7 Steps of the Research Process:
    1) Find a topic
    2) Refine your topic
    3) Find key sources
    4) Take notes on your sources
    5) Create your presentation
    6) Do additional research as necessary
    7) Cite your sources

    Unless you did all of that, you didn't research anything. End of story. And if you did do all that, you will be able to present it all to defend your findings. Otherwise, none of it has any credibly basis.


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  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to Gamgee on Tue Feb 23 19:13:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <60332BD3.4292.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <6032CE71.993.dove-netdebate@20xd6>
    Vague wrote to Gamgee <=-

    My Step Son and Step Daughter worked and went to college and paid for their college as they wen't, My wife and I provided free room and board during this period of time, and now they're makeing good money but not
    in debt.
    I don't believe our taxes should be paying for someones further
    education after 12th grade, my step kids did just fine and are not in debt.

    Sure is lucky for your kids that you had enough money and
    resources to do that for them.

    He said that they let their kids stay at their home while the kids went
    to college, and fed them. How much money and resources does that require...??

    More than most have, but you can't let yourself believe that. Do you believe that so many people can give their kids free room and board, but just don't? How do you explain so many people in college whos parents don't provide free room and board? Why do so many people in college have to get loans because their parents aren't giving them free room and board?

    I wonder how many people can do that?

    I'd say nearly 100% of people. I mean, the kids were staying/eating
    there before they left for college, right?

    Oh.. yeah.. 100%! Suuuure. And I'm sure when you look around all
    you see if middle class. When was the last time you had to decide
    whether to buy groceries or pay rent? Poeple have to make that
    decision daily in this country, but you say 100% of Americans can
    afford to provided free room and board for their adult children
    while they are in college for the next 4 to 6 years? Do you also
    think 100% of Texans could just fly to Cancun?

    <sigh> Your reading comprehension sucks. You need some college (or perhaps high school) remedial education.

    I did not say "100% of Americans". You fucking idiot. I was speaking about the kids who went to college (and PAID FOR IT BY WORKING THEIR
    WAY THROUGH COLLEGE), who stayed/ate at their parents' house. There weren't any resources used by the parents to send the kids to college. They (the kids) paid for it themselves. That's what the dude said,
    right there above!

    It's right there above. "Ga> I'd say nearly 100% of people." Oh, I'm soooo sorry. You said "people", not "Americans". I guess because you wanted to talk about all people everywhere and not just about Americans???

    And again, you're trying to pretend that no resources at all are used with them in the house? That's laughable. Household resources include all income (taxable and nontaxable) received by all adult household members during the year, including income that might be excludable from federal adjusted gross income. You should know this as an adult.

    So, yes. For kids attending college that way, I'm sure that they're parents could house/feed them. I mean, a few months prior, when the
    kids were still in high school, they were staying/eating at home,
    right?

    Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention to what is written,
    not what you're imagining.

    It's quite obvious by all this that you have no idea what exists outside your tiny bubble of a life. I'm done with you. Thanks for playing.


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  • From Vague@VERT/VAGUEBBS to HusTler on Tue Feb 23 19:18:00 2021
    HusTler wrote to Vague <=-

    @VIA: VERT/HAVENS
    @MSGID: <6033246D.4863.dove-debate@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <6031991C.967.dove-netdebate@VAGUEBBS>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Vague to HusTler on Sat Feb 20 2021 06:16 pm

    Trump was aquitted yet again of impeachment. You can't keep a good
    man down.

    "Teflon Don" strikes again.

    I'LL BE BOK ;-)

    Um.... he's still impeached. They aquitted Clinton, too. He's still impeached.

    Obviously "Impeachment" don't mean shit. Just like Biden and his Democrats don't mean shit.

    Biden won. Trump wasn't clever enough or powerful enough to stop him or the Democrats and ,as a rusult, more people voted for Biden. And if you blame some "deep state", that just means he failed to defeat them, also. If you are going to buy into all that, then you also have to accept Trump tried everything in his power and still failed.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HOLLOWONE on Sat Feb 27 16:13:00 2021
    How I can describe it on top of my own country's experience:

    [2] All decisions are steered out from the back seat by the party leader who i
    turbo catholic, nationalistic wanna be patriot with Poland first attitude but only in the way how he understands or accepts definition of being a good citizen. All other versions of patriotism, national loyalty and value systems that are not approved by him are heavily distriminated publicly and more often
    legally

    That doesn't sound too good.

    [3] LGBT is chased and officially discredited, top politicians either claim it's a mental sickness or ideology if you're not straight

    While I cannot follow them down the rabbit-hole of "there are an infinite number of genders/sexual identities," I have nothing against people who are "not straight." I doubt they have any more control over being attracted to members of the same sex than I do with being attracted to women.

    Here we sort of have the opposite going... I think we are near the point
    where it is going to be expected that young people must go through a gender identity crisis or there is something wrong with them.

    [8] Conservative supports call liberals 'the lefties', liberals call convervatives 'the nazis' and compare the current movements to NSDAP

    That is almost exactly like here.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Cool! I broke his brain!" - Bart on Principal Skinner

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  • From hollowone@VERT/AMIGAC to Dumas Walker on Sun Feb 28 21:36:00 2021
    [2] All decisions are steered out from the back seat by the party leader who
    i

    turbo catholic, nationalistic wanna be patriot with Poland first attitude
    ut
    only in the way how he understands or accepts definition of being a good citizen. All other versions of patriotism, national loyalty and value
    ystems
    that are not approved by him are heavily distriminated publicly and more
    often

    legally

    That doesn't sound too good.

    It does not. I loved to be called a patriot and country loving person before. I liked what I've learnt in US about what I always called 'a positive patriotism' in contradiction to nationalism. Not I find word patriotism totally overrated.

    [3] LGBT is chased and officially discredited, top politicians either claim it's a mental sickness or ideology if you're not straight

    While I cannot follow them down the rabbit-hole of "there are an
    infinite number of genders/sexual identities," I have nothing against people who are "not straight." I doubt they have any more control over being attracted to members of the same sex than I do with being
    attracted to women.

    Same here, I'm tolerant as long as many universal social behaviour rules are respected, which is the same expectation I can give to straight people. I can't say I can follow or understand all these different variances..

    Here we sort of have the opposite going... I think we are near the
    point where it is going to be expected that young people must go
    through a gender identity crisis or there is something wrong with them.

    I believe our kids generations will go through serious identity crisis for various different reasons if we won't stop bombarding them with information.

    /h1


    ... High Heel or Hell Water
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 4,000+ files
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HOLLOWONE on Mon Mar 1 14:30:00 2021
    It does not. I loved to be called a patriot and country loving person before. I
    liked what I've learnt in US about what I always called 'a positive patriotism'
    in contradiction to nationalism. Not I find word patriotism totally overrated.

    The US also used to be known as a melting pot. That is, folks from other places would come in and assimilate into the society while maybe bring something new into it. At some point, that changed. Some people still do
    but others want to come in and then have things be the way they want them,
    i.e. like they were where they came from.

    Sometime after that, it seemed like Americans started becoming less
    tolerant.

    I cannot really blame them.

    Here we sort of have the opposite going... I think we are near the
    point where it is going to be expected that young people must go
    through a gender identity crisis or there is something wrong with them.

    I believe our kids generations will go through serious identity crisis for various different reasons if we won't stop bombarding them with information.

    Indeed.


    * SLMR 2.1a * A message from Dewey, Cheatham and Howe, PC

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  • From hollowone@VERT/AMIGAC to Dumas Walker on Tue Mar 2 10:47:00 2021
    The US also used to be known as a melting pot. That is, folks from
    other places would come in and assimilate into the society while maybe bring something new into it. At some point, that changed. Some people still do but others want to come in and then have things be the way
    they want them, i.e. like they were where they came from.

    Sometime after that, it seemed like Americans started becoming less tolerant.

    I cannot really blame them.

    Can't blame them too. Big country, not everything is and must be defined by NYC, Seattle, SF and other cosmopolitan standards.

    Not everything is cosmopolitan in these cosmopolitan places too.

    I still have contact with bunch of friends from Seattle area I had met when I lived there.

    Not everybody likes their city anymore, some have already moved somewhere else to keep having lifestyle they used to have.

    /h1



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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Tue Mar 2 08:28:22 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Dumas Walker to HOLLOWONE on Mon Mar 01 2021 02:30 pm

    The US also used to be known as a melting pot. That is, folks from other places would come in and assimilate into the society while maybe bring something new into it. At some point, that changed. Some people still do but others want to come in and then have things be the way they want them, i.e. like they were where they came from.

    Sometime after that, it seemed like Americans started becoming less tolerant.

    From what I've heard, it sounds like Canada is more of a melting pot now.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HOLLOWONE on Tue Mar 2 15:54:00 2021
    Not everybody likes their city anymore, some have already moved somewhere else >to keep having lifestyle they used to have.

    You mean the lifestyle where looting is not an acceptable behaviour?


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Tue Mar 2 15:56:00 2021
    From what I've heard, it sounds like Canada is more of a melting pot now.

    Yes, but it also sounds like some of that is forced onto areas. Like, we
    have these refugees from X country, let's settle them in an area that is
    not currently diverse because, you know, that'll never causes any trouble.


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  • From hollowone@VERT/AMIGAC to Dumas Walker on Wed Mar 3 07:12:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to HOLLOWONE <=-

    Not everybody likes their city anymore, some have already moved somewhere
    lse
    to keep having lifestyle they used to have.

    You mean the lifestyle where looting is not an acceptable behaviour?

    No rather a situation where even a shack barely sizeable to store your bike costs $1M+ sold as real estate, same with rental. City turns into a place that only high-tech, high-payable jobs can afford living well and restaurant business was dying long before covid in many neighbourhoods.

    My hi-tech friends are fine, many unique, small restaurators I'd meet moved outside the city unfortunately. Sounds to me that Seattle is repeating SF on their way to expand and grow.

    ---
    /h1





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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dumas Walker on Wed Mar 3 22:51:00 2021
    Dumas Walker wrote to HOLLOWONE <=-

    @MSGID: <603D5490.22482.dove-deb@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <603C036E.6483.dove-debate@amigacity.xyz>
    It does not. I loved to be called a patriot and country loving person before. I

    liked what I've learnt in US about what I always called 'a positive patriotism'

    in contradiction to nationalism. Not I find word patriotism totally overrated.

    The US also used to be known as a melting pot. That is, folks from
    other places would come in and assimilate into the society while maybe bring something new into it. At some point, that changed. Some people still do but others want to come in and then have things be the way
    they want them, i.e. like they were where they came from.

    Sometime after that, it seemed like Americans started becoming less tolerant.

    I cannot really blame them.

    Multiculturalism doesn't work. Never has. The melting pot was doomed to fail.
    It can only work if you accept a small number of people. Once you start to see demographic shifts, its game over.

    The USA imported people to a degree which caused demographic shifts, as did many other Western nations. This set off a change from which we will never recover.

    Here we sort of have the opposite going... I think we are near the point where it is going to be expected that young people must go through a gender identity crisis or there is something wrong with them.

    I believe our kids generations will go through serious identity crisis for various different reasons if we won't stop bombarding them with information.

    Indeed.

    Identity politics it the politics of the 21st century. I'm not against it, it was necessary. I object to the *WOKE* version.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Boraxman on Wed Mar 3 12:42:44 2021
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Wed Mar 03 2021 10:51 pm

    Multiculturalism doesn't work. Never has. The melting pot was doomed to fail.
    It can only work if you accept a small number of people. Once you start to see demographic shifts, its game over.

    The USA imported people to a degree which caused demographic shifts, as did many other Western nations. This set off a change from which we will never recover.

    What kinds of changes, from which we will never recover? Honestly I haven't looked into the effects of multiculturalism much myself, but it's something I've been curious about. From what I've heard, it sounds like multiculturalism exists in Canada much more than in the US though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to hollowone on Wed Mar 3 06:27:00 2021
    hollowone wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    No rather a situation where even a shack barely sizeable to store your bike costs $1M+ sold as real estate, same with rental. City turns into
    a place that only high-tech, high-payable jobs can afford living well
    and restaurant business was dying long before covid in many neighbourhoods.

    When I was in San Francisco in the late 80s, I knew second and third generation families, plumbers, tradesmen, *real* waiters and bartenders (who did it for a living, not just to pay the bills) and coffee shop/bagel shop owners.

    Last time I was there a couple of years ago I saw amazing restaurants I
    loved empty and a line of food delivery service cars driving into the
    parking structure of one of the high-rise condos in the area where I used to work.

    What's the point of paying that kind of money to live in a city if you're
    not going to explore and enjoy the city?






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    than 4,000+ files

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Nightfox on Thu Mar 4 22:25:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <603FF4C4.25392.dove_dove-deb@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <603F7882.20625.dove-deb@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: Re: GAB
    By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on
    Wed Mar 03 2021 10:51 pm

    Multiculturalism doesn't work. Never has. The melting pot was doomed to fail.
    It can only work if you accept a small number of people. Once you start to see demographic shifts, its game over.

    The USA imported people to a degree which caused demographic shifts, as did many other Western nations. This set off a change from which we will never recover.

    What kinds of changes, from which we will never recover? Honestly I haven't looked into the effects of multiculturalism much myself, but
    it's something I've been curious about. From what I've heard, it
    sounds like multiculturalism exists in Canada much more than in the US though.

    Multiculturalism is predicated on the untested and unproven hypothesis that replacing a population would not change the cultural, political and economic state of the nation. Perhaps its a carry over of Capitalist ideology which considers human beings fungible assets.

    I think, well, I KNOW, that as the demographics change, the areas affected will come to resemble, more and more, the countries these people came from. I've seen this personally while travelling overseas, sometimes in a rather dramatic fashion, and its observable in my home city as well.

    That this change will result in fundamental cultural shift I think is a given, and this will mean dramatic upheaval. We are seeing this now. Almost all of our loss of freedom, the demands to control speech, cancel people is a result of "diversity". Identity politics is an inevitable outcome, and will result in a re-evaluation of values. This is happening NOW. More race consciousness, more judgement of people by the group they belong to, rather than merit. Both the Alt-Right and the Woke religion believe in this. The middle ground will lose, because increased diversity will necessitate some form of racial consciousness.

    So the culture we knew, a meritocratic one, where what you did, not what you were mattered, where we only really cared about what one did, is gone. Dead.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Thu Mar 4 11:20:13 2021
    On 3/3/2021 12:42 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    From what I've heard, it sounds like multiculturalism exists
    in Canada much more than in the US though.

    That's hilarious... Canada is *vastly* more white than the US.
    Canada is a lot like the Nordic countries. Mostly lip service.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Thu Mar 4 16:21:00 2021
    What kinds of changes, from which we will never recover? Honestly I haven't lo
    ked into the effects of multiculturalism much myself, but it's something I've b
    en curious about. From what I've heard, it sounds like multiculturalism exists
    in Canada much more than in the US though.

    Which might be one of the reasons they every so often have a province who threatens to leave, and it is not always Quebec.


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  • From hollowone@VERT/AMIGAC to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 5 23:17:00 2021
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to hollowone <=-

    hollowone wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    No rather a situation where even a shack barely sizeable to store your bike costs $1M+ sold as real estate, same with rental. City turns into
    a place that only high-tech, high-payable jobs can afford living well
    and restaurant business was dying long before covid in many neighbourhoods.

    When I was in San Francisco in the late 80s, I knew second and third generation families, plumbers, tradesmen, *real* waiters and bartenders (who did it for a living, not just to pay the bills) and coffee
    shop/bagel shop owners.

    Last time I was there a couple of years ago I saw amazing restaurants I loved empty and a line of food delivery service cars driving into the parking structure of one of the high-rise condos in the area where I
    used to work.

    What's the point of paying that kind of money to live in a city if
    you're not going to explore and enjoy the city?

    That's the thing. I love the fact that I had met Seattle back when Sonics were still in town. Not that I'd like to talk about the game. I had no chance to find time and opportunity to watch that team live, but this was Seattle that is today commented with questions regarding 'Seattle freeze' by North Cali influx and and locals responding 'what the fuck you mean?' as small talk among different classes, incomes and neighbourhoods were common and downtown was most safe on the west and belonging to everybody.

    Then I kept hearing about changes that are not what I'd call the right direction, although I still respect how prosperous business center this community is. globally.

    Having lunch with construction workes, local cop, pro bartender (as you said) and a business owners with a legit numbers of zeros on the bank roll wasn't something of a suprise.. sad to hear (As I haven't been there since 2015) that there is something between hourly paid job and true middle class defined by 150k+ per household that rather orders home than walks out and there are shootings in the center at frequency I don't remember back in the days, even in International District.

    I still miss Kells.. but fuck.. I'm not sure if I could stand the city now vs. memories... perhaps Portland more.

    /h1



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