From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to All on Thu Sep 23 11:33:05 2021
As per popular request, I am posting a small summary of the debate that got pulled off Youtube, regarding COVID and the vaccines. I have watched an hour of it, and will post more as I watch the rest.
The attendants of the debate are:
Manuel Martˇnez Sell‚s, president of the Medical College in Madrid.
Nataria Prego, Doctor by the Santiago de Compostela University.
Juan Jos‚ Martˇnez, Doctor in General Medicine and Digestive Medicine
Marˇa Luisa Carcedo, ex-Minister of Healthcare (Spain)
ngel Ruˇz Valdepe¤as, Doctor and Cofounder of Doctors for the Truth.
Jos‚ Luis Balbˇn acts as moderator.
The debate gets started when the moderator asks the participants what the origin of the virus is. Is it a natural virus, or has it been manufactured in a laboratory? The moderator then brings forth an article of the(extremely) ppopular journal El Paˇs, according to which the origin of the disease is
still shroud in mystery and there is no patient zero identified.
All the participants are quick to point out the disease is real ( ngel Ruˇz mentions he lost his father top it).. Manuel Martˇnez mentions that he thinks the virus is natural and that the odds it is man-made, while existent, are low.
ngel Ruˇz then answers back that, in his opinion, the virus is not new,
since there exists a big bunch of patents related to the virus (such as spike protein production) which have existed for as long as 21 years.
At this point, Manuel Martˇnez says that ngel Ruˇz is a Doctor who has been suspended and that he backs his suspension, because he may led people not to take the vaccine. I must say this came out of the blue and sounded overly aggressive given the fact the conversation had been cordial up to this point. Also, because the issue of vaccine effectivity and such has not been touched specifically yet.
Juan Jos‚ started by declaring that, while the disease exists, the virus has not been properly isolated in a laboratory. He mentions some cases of Californian CDCs which had multitudes of samples from COVID patients which, when scanned for the presence of the virus, didn't show any. He mentions that the head of the CHinesse CDCs had declared, earlier this year, that he had no evidence or knowledge of the virus being isolated, as many other personalities with names I dare not spell, including heads of Institutes for Electronic Michroscopy.
At this point, Maria Luisa screeches she is thinking of walking out because he does not want to be in a debate in which somebody hints that the existence of the virus is non-demonstrated. She asserts that the virus is a natural occuring zoonosis as suggested by the WHO.
At this point Juan Jos‚ introduces a bit of a fun fact: an Asturian
asociation has sued the Government (I understand because of the lockdowns) and courts have challenged the Government to demonstrate the virus exists, ggiving them 20 days of deadline. Maria Luisa explodes with the following words: "The government must demonstrate nothing! It is up to science!"
Natalia attempted to intervene declaring that the pathogen actually exists, but by this point the conversation was unraveling quite fast so the moderator switched subjects.
The next subject is an evaluation, in retrospective, of the effectivity of the emergency protocols that were first deployed against the virus.
Sadly, we don't get to hear much about it, because by this point Manuel and Maria Luisa are spending more time saying that the debate is not legitimate, calling the other participants pseudoscientists and complaining that their mere presence in the studio gives them more credibility than they deserve.
Manuel attacks the moderatorby accusing him of bringing him to the studio without telling him the debate was going to involve both defenders of the official positions of the government, and detractors of it. The moderator claims that every participant was sent a dossier with a list of the subjects that were going to be discussed and the nature of the discussion.
Both Manuel and Maria Luisa then declare that there is no possible debate, because the existence of the virus, the efficacy of the vaccine and the efficacy of masks is backed unanimously by the scientific community. Manuel goes as far as to say that anybody who doubts this is a pseudoscientist at best.
I think it is ngel Ruˇz who answers back that none of those things are unanimously backed by scientists and brings forth the stats from the American VAERS, Early Vigilance and UK official sources, with official data regarding people who died specifically from side effects from COVID vaccines.
At this point Manuel and Maria Luisa walk out of the studio, claiming they don't want to legitimize the program with their presence.
## MY TAKEAWAY ##
I think Marˇa Luisa and Manuel went into the debate just so they could declare the other three participants to be "pseudosicentists" and then walk away, thus showing they are not worth talking to. They spent 30 minutes of the 55 they were on air declaring the debate was not legitimate.
Two of the three other participants have been suspended or are in process of being suspended, according to them, because they dare speak against the effectivity of PCRs and other government endorsed meassures. They have the conspiracy theory vibe for sure.
What I find depressing is that there was no debate... the officialists fell back to:
* Listen to the WHO position, everything else is pseudoscience.
* This debate is illegitimate and I am going to walk out.
* You guys are dangerous because you bring facts to support your stance and may convince other people of your poisonous ideas.
And they looped over those concepts all over and over and over again.
Meanwhile, the tin-foil-hat brigade was, at least, trying to give structure to their assertions and placing some facts on the table.
All in all, very disappointing.
I think Manuel and Maria Luisa should have stayed and defended their ideas, since they think they are so important. I think they should be put to shame for refusing to build an argument and then declaring themselves the only legitimate scientists and leaving. The only thing they have achieved is giving the other side an autowin.
This are the first 55 minutes of video. I will give you the rest as I listen to it.