• 3rd Amendment

    From Tortillaretreat@VERT to All on Wed Jun 30 20:40:46 2021
    While we're still talking about amendments, does anyone else see the surveiliances programs such as PRISM to be a violation of the 3rd Amendment? Sure, the soldier isn't literally in your home, but if they have a magic mirror into your bedroom, your kitchen, your living room, which they can look into at all times and can decide to knock on your door if they don't like what they hear or see, is that really a difference? The amount of people who are passive to this surveillance, liberal, conservative, or otherwise really ticks me off. You wouldn't allow a stranger to put cameras and recorders in your home, but when it's the government it's okay? You wouldn't give a stranger on the street your password, but big corps and all their employees monitoring what you do is fine to you? I've heard many of my relatives from the most progressive to the most traditional make this "nothing to hide" argument, and it ticks me off every time. How do y'all feel about this?

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Tortillaretreat on Thu Jul 1 18:02:56 2021
    Re: 3rd Amendment
    By: Tortillaretreat to All on Wed Jun 30 2021 08:40 pm

    While we're still talking about amendments, does anyone else see the surveiliances programs such as PRISM to be a violation of the 3rd Amendment? Sure, the soldier isn't literally in your home, but if they have a magic mir into your bedroom, your kitchen, your living room, which they can look into all times and can decide to knock on your door if they don't like what they hear or see, is that really a difference? The amount of people who are passi to this surveillance, liberal, conservative, or otherwise really ticks me of You wouldn't allow a stranger to put cameras and recorders in your home, but when it's the government it's okay? You wouldn't give a stranger on the stre your password, but big corps and all their employees monitoring what you do fine to you? I've heard many of my relatives from the most progressive to th most traditional make this "nothing to hide" argument, and it ticks me off every time. How do y'all feel about this?


    I am not well versed, but I don't think it is a 3rd Amendment breach because you are purchasing the devices that are used to track you, and your devices are the ones sending information to Sauron, also known as The Enemy.

    The "nothing to hide" argument is so weak it is not worth wasting time for. People who makes such argument has already made their minds up and prefer to run chinesse facial recognicion apps than protecting their banking habits from the asian mobs. You just cannot fix stupid.

    IMO the defense against this is to peer with liked-minded people, build trusted networks with them and extract oneself from surveillance platforms as much as possible. The problem is most privacy conscious people is not ready to take any big steps. The problem, when such plan works, is that privacy-conscious people then become isolated because they have no friends out of their bubble, at least in the digital world.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to TORTILLARETREAT on Thu Jul 1 19:27:00 2021
    While we're still talking about amendments, does anyone else see the surveilian
    es programs such as PRISM to be a violation of the 3rd Amendment? Sure, the sol
    ier isn't literally in your home, but if they have a magic mirror into your bed
    oom, your kitchen, your living room, which they can look into at all times and >an decide to knock on your door if they don't like what they hear or see, is th
    t really a difference? The amount of people who are passive to this surveillanc
    , liberal, conservative, or otherwise really ticks me off. You wouldn't allow a
    stranger to put cameras and recorders in your home, but when it's the governmen
    it's okay? You wouldn't give a stranger on the street your password, but big c
    rps and all their employees monitoring what you do is fine to you? I've heard m
    ny of my relatives from the most progressive to the most traditional make this >nothing to hide" argument, and it ticks me off every time. How do y'all feel ab
    ut this?

    I have not heard of these magic mirrors? I think that part sounds like
    China or "1984" and I don't like it. I do not like that governments or corporations are likely monitoring our movements, buying habits, etc. Even
    if you have nothing to hide, your private life is yours, not theirs.

    A lot of it seems like some way of filling some sort of voyeristic
    tendencies of those in charge of putting networks like this together.


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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Tortillaretreat on Sun Jul 4 18:00:00 2021
    Hello Tortillaretreat!

    ** On Wednesday 30.06.21 - 20:40, Tortillaretreat wrote to All:

    While we're still talking about amendments, does anyone
    else see the surveiliances programs such as PRISM to be a
    violation of the 3rd Amendment? Sure, the soldier isn't
    literally in your home, but if they have a magic mirror
    into your bedroom, your kitchen, your living room, which
    they can look into at all times and can decide to knock on
    your door if they don't like what they hear or see, is that
    really a difference?

    The rest of the world probably doesn't care about the US
    Constitution. But wrt you being a US citizen, it seems to only
    to refer to physical soldiers in your house.

    I don't think people can replace "soldier" with "PRISM" and
    argue that the 3rd amendment has been violated. The 3rd
    amendment pertains to what a gov't can or can't impose on you.

    But any monitoring system that use in your house is your own
    choice.

    The amount of people who are passive to this surveillance,
    liberal, conservative, or otherwise really ticks me off.

    Get thee to PGP ASAP! ;) The pgpnet mailing list is one place
    that encourages private communications with a group of people. https://groups.io/g/pgpnet ..not much daily chit chat
    currently, but it is very cool that the comms are truly private
    to participants.

    You wouldn't allow a stranger to put cameras and recorders
    in your home, but when it's the government it's okay?

    It is not okay. But sadly, people put privacy on the backburner
    when all they have to do is say, "Alexa, dim the lights | play
    favourite playlist | tell me a joke | what's the weather"
    ..etc, all the while the device is "listening".

    You wouldn't give a stranger on the street your password,
    but big corps and all their employees monitoring what you
    do is fine to you? I've heard many of my relatives from the
    most progressive to the most traditional make this "nothing
    to hide" argument, and it ticks me off every time. How do
    y'all feel about this?

    Their "nothing to hide" argument is flawed.. just ask them for
    their passwords then! <BWG>


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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Ogg on Mon Jul 5 08:45:00 2021
    Ogg wrote to Tortillaretreat <=-

    The rest of the world probably doesn't care about the US
    Constitution. But wrt you being a US citizen, it seems to only
    to refer to physical soldiers in your house.

    I don't think people can replace "soldier" with "PRISM" and
    argue that the 3rd amendment has been violated. The 3rd
    amendment pertains to what a gov't can or can't impose on you.

    But I think the argument can be made that the 3rd Amendment means that the gov't can't compel you to use YOUR resources for the gov't. That would imply that Osama-care violates the 3rd Amendment - since it compels you to buy insurance that you don't want.

    But I'll let the lawyers argue that one.

    It is not okay. But sadly, people put privacy on the backburner
    when all they have to do is say, "Alexa, dim the lights | play
    favourite playlist | tell me a joke | what's the weather"
    ..etc, all the while the device is "listening".

    I've see this so often.

    Many people (especially techies) have neophilia (a strong affinity for novelty). So
    something like Alexa triggers it and they don't really think it through.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Mon Jul 5 09:26:40 2021
    Re: 3rd Amendment
    By: Ogg to Tortillaretreat on Sun Jul 04 2021 06:00 pm

    amendment pertains to what a gov't can or can't impose on you.

    But any monitoring system that use in your house is your own
    choice.

    The amount of people who are passive to this surveillance,
    liberal, conservative, or otherwise really ticks me off.

    Get thee to PGP ASAP! ;) The pgpnet mailing list is one place
    that encourages private communications with a group of people. https://groups.io/g/pgpnet ..not much daily chit chat
    currently, but it is very cool that the comms are truly private
    to participants.

    so you think they cant crack PGP?
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dr. What on Mon Jul 5 12:29:07 2021
    Re: Re: 3rd Amendment
    By: Dr. What to Ogg on Mon Jul 05 2021 08:45 am

    Many people (especially techies) have neophilia (a strong affinity for novelty). So
    something like Alexa triggers it and they don't really think it through.


    I am not so sure.

    There is a difference between a technophile and a microchiphead. There is a lot of people out there who love all the new gadgets and shiny things and will jump at the chance of owning the new technological toy, but they usually don't now anything about tech beyond user level.

    Then you have the microchip heads who know what the OSI model is, know the difference between a logical partition and a slice of pizza, and sport a nice Unix beard. Lots of those have the skill to put together their own automation gadgets but don't want to let their toaster run an operating system. This is because the true pros know what happens when gadgets go wrong.

    Fun fact: if the 3rd ammendment made it illegal for the government to use your resources forcefuly, it would make government itself illegal, because when it comes to it, governments fund themselves by extracting tax money from you and giving you no choice but to pay or be sent to Folsom to be raped in the showers.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Mon Jul 5 12:37:33 2021
    Re: 3rd Amendment
    By: MRO to Ogg on Mon Jul 05 2021 09:26 am

    Get thee to PGP ASAP! ;) The pgpnet mailing list is one place
    that encourages private communications with a group of people. https://groups.io/g/pgpnet ..not much daily chit chat
    currently, but it is very cool that the comms are truly private
    to participants.

    so you think they cant crack PGP?

    What they can crack or not crack is speculation.

    As per Snowden's revelations we can conclude that in 2014 they had serious issues dealing with RSA 1024 which is a bottom of the barrel cypher. (I infer this because it is the cypher the Tor network used at the time, and as per Snowden's revelations they could not crack specific Tor circuits on demand).

    There are rumors that they have been cracking generic prime numbers in order to have databases of pre-cracked primitives. That would be troublesome for something like RSA but I don't know how vulnerable eliptic curve cyphers (included in new OpenPGP iterations) would be.

    If I was concerned about an NSA level threat I would not be using OpenPGP, though, but a one-time-pad, KGB style. That said, against NSA level threats, Internet communications are the least of your problems because they can send a mercenary squad that doesn't exist to suicide you Epstein style.

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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Mon Jul 5 21:30:00 2021
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Monday 05.07.21 - 09:26, MRO wrote to Ogg:

    so you think they cant crack PGP?

    According to Phil Zimmerman himself, that is true:

    https://philzimmermann.com/EN/faq/index.html


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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Arelor on Tue Jul 6 08:27:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Fun fact: if the 3rd ammendment made it illegal for the government to
    use your resources forcefuly, it would make government itself illegal, because when it comes to it, governments fund themselves by extracting
    tax money from you and giving you no choice but to pay or be sent to Folsom to be raped in the showers.

    You should read the Constitution. It gives the gov't the power to levy taxes.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Tue Jul 6 21:39:40 2021
    Re: 3rd Amendment
    By: Ogg to MRO on Mon Jul 05 2021 09:30 pm

    Hello MRO!

    ** On Monday 05.07.21 - 09:26, MRO wrote to Ogg:

    so you think they cant crack PGP?

    According to Phil Zimmerman himself, that is true:

    https://philzimmermann.com/EN/faq/index.html

    yeah, that was true 24 years ago.
    and who owns pgp now?

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